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1481  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Paypal not reversible for Bitcoins on: March 18, 2013, 09:39:10 PM
I know this to be fact as I am being screwed by Paypal as we speak

You are not being screwed by PayPal, you bought something that wasn't delivered.  You made the assumption that you were protected by PayPal but they are avoiding that using technicality (by saying you bought a digital good).

How did you pay for your purchase, from a PayPal balance, or with credit card?   If you paid with credit card, you can charge back through your credit card issuer. 
1482  Economy / Online Wallets / Re: - Bitcoin Block explorer & Currency Statistics on: March 18, 2013, 07:45:18 PM
I'm not sure why they are not confirming. I have rebroadcasted them several times but it doesn't seem to have helped,

That's probably something whose root cause should be understood (and not just overlooked).
1483  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: List of Major Bitcoin Heists, Thefts, Hacks, Scams, and Losses on: March 18, 2013, 07:36:29 PM
There was a discussion on IRC and on these forums regarding if the fork made double spending possible and I was refuted and plainly lost the argument. No the fork did not enable the possibility of a double spend

It most certainly did.  The OKPay double spend was an intentional double spend (performed by manually constructing and broadcasting a transaction that re-spent previously spent funds) and was successful due to a combination of factors.

There still are even more double spends that can be performed (as they are still unconfirmed and not yet spent) but simply haven't (yet):

There are several transactions that were confirmed in the major fork a few days ago but have not confirmed in the new chain for some reason. Normally these transactions would be pruned however since they are already included in an orphaned block they cannot be removed, this is unusual and I'm not sure why they are not confirming. I have rebroadcasted them several times but it doesn't seem to have helped, the best course of action would be to double spend them with another client.
1484  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-03-18 Wired: Ring of Bitcoins: Why Your Digital Wallet Belongs ... on: March 18, 2013, 07:27:16 PM
Well, for all we know he's lying about what the trick actually was.  Wink

And if the ring is stolen the funds could be transferred (assuming he has a backup copy of the key) before any cracking attempt could solve it.

But yes, he might have said "there's only a few bitcoins, the metal is worth more than the bitcoins" or something like that so as to not incent those who might consider the possibilities.
1485  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: BTC Buy - mobile phone site on: March 18, 2013, 07:10:07 PM
There is an option at my provider to "load" the PIN directly to a device. That would eliminate a need for a higher security, but it would also bring up a privacy concern, 'cuz you will be disclosing your phone # to me. Given that, do you think you woulds still use that option?

You've had the ability to load directly to a mobile # (without the refill code method) and you've been holding out?

I personally tend to prefer the method that protects privacy but simplicity (load directly) trumps privacy concerns for most.

From a mobile, not having to go the refill code route would be preferable and easier for most.  If you can offer that, it probably should be the default even (and refill code as the optional method).
1486  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: How to transfer USD to BTC-E? on: March 18, 2013, 05:09:29 AM
I'm trying to transfer money to my BTC-E account from my bank (checking) account or debit card.

There's a reason bitcoins exchange for a lower rate on BTC-e than elsewhere, and that difference is partly because of the difficulty in transferring funds there.

AurumXChange will let you transfer VouchX USD vouchers as well as a few other redeemable codes (including Mt. Gox USD codes) into BTC-e vouchers.
1487  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Wedding social prize donations help on: March 18, 2013, 04:33:15 AM
I would be looking for donations and hopefully get some companies some free advertising to promote bitcoins for one of the prizes that people have at socials.

Might want to describe the problem you are solving.  For instance, I wasn't aware of the term "wedding social".  In some cultures, these either go by other names or are not necessarily fundraisers but instead are just for the purpose of entertainment.
1488  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: BTC Buy - mobile phone site on: March 18, 2013, 04:24:15 AM
Are you seriously going to be pasting PGP key from your mobile phone,

Or if you too a GPG fingerprint I'ld do that instead.   But now that you offer GPG encryption, that's how I prefer to receive my mobile wireless refill code.  And sometimes I will be placing that order from my mobile.   I might not redeem (after decrypting the message) from my mobile, but I'll likely be placing the order using it.
1489  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Buying 100-200 Bitcoins from Europe on: March 18, 2013, 04:18:03 AM
I am considering a buy of 100-200 BTCs from Denmark. How do I minimize my transaction fees in this purchase? I have previously used Mt. Gox. but I was wondering if other ways were cheaper.

In denmark you can do a domestic DKK transfer through Bitcoin Nordic:
 - sells bitcoins and accepts DKK:

There might be other methods that work for you.  For instance, if you can send SEPA (EUR), then BITSTAMP is one of a half dozen exchanges that you can send SEPA payments to:

You could even try CurrencyFair where you transfer DKK by bank to them, then convert there to different funds and wire from there.  That's another method to go from DKK to EUR to send to BITSTAMP:

1490  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: ICBIT Derivatives Market (USD/BTC futures trading) - LIVE on: March 18, 2013, 03:47:13 AM
The contract was settled at 20:01 UTC, just like the contract says.

I didn't have any BUH3 myself so I don't have a log entry.   At a minimum it settled before 20:29 UTC when the Tweet was sent.  And before 20:39 UTC which is the timestamp when Fireball's forum was posted here.

I did personally see open buys and sells for it right up before 20:00.

So I don't know how externally one could verify the exact millisecond the settlement numbers were reported.  The settlement price though is as-of exactly 20:00 UTC.   There is evidence that this settlement price was obtained between 20:00 UTC (when trading for it was no longer possible) and 20:29 UTC (the time of the tweet), and other traders have reported this timestamp in their logs:

I did and here's the log entry:

2013-03-15 20:00:01   332   Variation margin, last = 47.0764

as well as mutliple traders confirming that at the time of settlement (or minutes after) the 24 hour VWAP price from Mt. Gox was at that 47.0764 level, including:

I can also confirm that I looked at MtGox at the time of settlement, and the price was correct at least to four digits (two decimals after the point).  

[Edit:  OK, maybe I'm overlooking something basic and am missing your point entirely.  Are you instead asking for the link that shows when settlement happens?

Trading sessions
Clearing happens at 20:00 GMT, clearing duration is flexible.
-  ]
1491  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Anonymity vs Trust on: March 18, 2013, 03:14:45 AM
I keep trying to mull this over in my head. The internet thrives on anonymity, and in general, everyone hates filling out their information, especially if they don't know where it's going. I think this lends to the 'try it and see' part of BTC. But in terms of giving/trading with coins, the anonymity has everyone on edge. Sure you have an account here and an account there and reputation gets built on each of these forums separately. But how would one know, say, that when you're dealing with someone who wants you to go first, say, that just because they have a good rep on webby A, they might not on webby B? And what sort of recourse is there? The apparent lack of recourse is what has me wary.

A pattern that repeats is for a person to build up trust and then once enough trust has been reached use that to scam and then abandon that profile.  Anonymity makes that cheap and easy to do.

Even knowing the person's real-life identity isn't protection -- as we know from pirateat40's ponzi scam.

The Bitcoin-OTC Web of Trust (WoT) is also vulnerable to that however it can be longer in duration and can span communities.

When dealing with non-reversible forms of payment, essentially there are no guarantees and limited recourse.  That's the nature of these instruments.

Some effort can be made to make it clear your counterparty is not in it to cut and run.  Here's an article that explains how this is nothing new:

And here are some resources:
1492  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Three months old un-confirmed transaction on: March 18, 2013, 02:55:21 AM
How is that possible?

You are probably describing how in your Bitcoin-Qt client is a spend transaction that still shows 0/unconfirmed.

If so, then what most likely is the situation is that the transaction uses funds that you had received and spent.   The stock Bitcoin-Qt/bitcoind client doesn't let you spend any funds until they have at least one confirmation.   So what can happen is that payment you received showed a confirmation, you spent it, and then it reverted back to having no confirmations.

Looking at it now then, your client has an invalid transaction -- it wants to spend funds that you never really had and don't have today.  You have a transaction that is no longer valid.  Worse, if your transaction also attempted to spend any other funds which were valid, it will reserve those for this transaction which will never confirm.

The Bitcoin-Qt/bitcoind client doesn't handle these outgoing double spends nicely.    In fact, unless you are technical they become quite a pain.

The easiest resolution for some is to import their wallet into another client that can handle this scenario better, or to export your private keys from your Bitcon-Qt, create a new, empty wallet and import the private keys so that you end up with exactly what you just had, less the offending transaction.

The easiest way for some is to import the wallet.dat to a new and spend the funds from there.

Otherwise, the Bitcoin-Qt client has a Debug console in which you can export your private keys.  The:
command will give you all the addresses in your wallet, and from there you can do a:
 dumpprivkey [BitcoinAddress]
on  each address. 

Then if you are creating a new wallet, then to import the keys:
 importprivkey [PrivateKey]

For more info on importing:
1493  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: MtGox generation of USD redeemable codes will stop at 10 Apr 2013 on: March 17, 2013, 10:20:34 PM
<MagicalTux> as US customer, it will not be possible to have a balance in anything else than BTC/USD/CAD

That's interesting. So how do they know who's a US customer? ID scans for all an sundry? IP geolocation? Simply trusting their customers to be honest?

 - Received Dwolla?  Ding.  U.S.
 - Submitted ID and it says U.S?   Ding.  U.S.  (or submitted Canadian,  CAN)
 - Access via U.S. or Canadian IP address?    Ding.  U.S. or Canada.

It's 80% of Mt. Gox's customer base (not sure if that is by number or by value of accounts).

1494  Bitcoin / Electrum / Re: Electrum why backup wallet? on: March 17, 2013, 09:31:31 PM
I don't need to restore my wallet from a backup, right?

If you ever import private keys, those won't be able to be recreated from the seeds.
1495  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Hashrate jump, Who can it be ? +60% to 53 Ths on: March 17, 2013, 09:03:11 PM
3 day average say we've gained 11TH+ in the last 3 days

Fast forward 12 months:  Do you remember when we thought a 11 Thash/s spike was something notable?
1496  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: ICBIT Derivatives Market (USD/BTC futures trading) - LIVE on: March 17, 2013, 06:02:23 PM
Clearly you can't determine the settlement price when there are 4 hours left in the settlement day.

A (24 hour) volume weighted adjusted price is just that -- the VWAP for the trailing (24-hour) period.  It can be any 24 hour period of time.  The contract doesn't say 00:00 to 23:59 UTC of settlement day, it says the "volume weighted average price", and the settlement occurs at 20:00 UTC.   So the 24 hour WAP goes from 20:00 on the day prior settlement day through 19:59 of settlement day.   [Update: Since the contract doesn't actually say "24 hour", it could be ambiguous as to which VWAP was intended ...  24 hour, monthly, or what?  Previous BTC/USD contracts were using the 24 hour VWAP.]

Now I suppose a script can be run to check the numbers, but settlement happens in real-time.  There's no ability to go pull the raw trade data to come up with the WAP in real-time.   If that computation is done later and comes up with a different number, then it needs to be analyzed why that is.

I can see the potential for a problem though.  If Mt. Gox exchange were to misreport the weighted average, possibly from a staff member trying to manipulate the ICBIT settlement price, then it would be hard to prove what value was showing.   I can see the need to have a separate computation performed later against the raw trade data for verification purposes.
1497  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: ICBIT Derivatives Market (USD/BTC futures trading) - LIVE on: March 17, 2013, 05:46:39 PM
I find the use of 8pm surprising as the contract says it's the average for the settlement day.

The contract was settled at 20:01 UTC, just like the contract says.

PM means after 12:00.  08:00 hours + 12:00 hours = 20:00 hours.  

The forum post time is 08:39 pm UTC, which is the same as 20:39 pm UTC.    He posted the forum post 39 minutes after settlement occurred.
1498  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: [LIST] btc to silver/gold exchange sites on: March 17, 2013, 04:49:05 PM
If there is already a list like this, let me know : P

1499  Local / India / Re: Forum Moderator on: March 17, 2013, 04:17:24 PM
He has requested me to post this and request India forum members for their opinion if everyone is alright with me as the moderator.

Several interactions with Benson.  Pleasant experience on all.

1500  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: How can I prove that a bitcoin transfer was made? on: March 17, 2013, 03:57:01 PM
Can I prove that I made a bitcoin transfer to a particular address? Say, for example in case of a legal dispute. I am asking for something more substantial than a screenshot of my wallet. I understand that all transactions somehow ar stored on the network?

Then the question is, how can you prove to the person you paid that the address was one that they gave you to pay?

And the answer to that:

We need a payment protocol with non-repudiation built in.

See for a multisig version (the singlesig version is simpler, but the merchant <-> customer communication will be the same).

And a variation of which is being developed now.  The Development mailing list has a thread on the topic.
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