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2161  Other / Off-topic / Re: How many of you are overnight millionaires? on: February 13, 2013, 03:52:04 AM
How many of you have effectibely as of last night "retired"?

Well, since bitcoin has not quite doubled since the end of 2012 that means that to have enough bitcoins to be worth a million USD today you had to have bitcoins worth half a million USD at the end of 2012.  

Many people sell into a rally when the exchange rate reaches a level that provides adequate return or when the seller believes it has advanced too far or too soon.  So there aren't that many people with a million dollars worth today.  We know that number is at least below 274 (as the total coins issued valued at the spot rate is $274 million).

If the actual number of bitcoin millionaires (i.e., those still holding bitcoins worth a million dollars) is fewer than ten in the entire world (including individuals and companies who hold bitcoins), I wouldn't be surprised.
2162  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: A letter from Avalon on: February 13, 2013, 01:37:30 AM
We would like to take this time to warn you not to use Bitcoin addresses that you do not own, including but not limited to the following: InstaWallet, exchanges such as MtGox and others.

When will this madness end?

Bitcoin transactions do not have the concept of a "from" address.

A few services like SatoshiDICE, BitLotto, etc. send winnings to an address that was used as an input in the wager and there are regularly occurring new reports of people losing their wagers by sending from Mt. Gox or other hosted (shared) EWallet service.

This practice should not be adopted by merchants and payment processors.   Bitcoin has no concept of a from address.  Please don't proceed with any approach that assumes that there is.
2163  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Spending BTC vs USD on: February 13, 2013, 12:25:42 AM
We know that there are few instances in which purchasing goods and services is easier/more convenient/cheaper. In general, it is the opposite of all these things.

A merchant pays merchant processing fees.  These are in the 3% range for many businesses, and in the 5% to 8% range for "high risk" merchant categories (e.g., travel, online gambling, tobacco sold via an e-commerce site, etc.)

So there are many opportunities where using bitcoins instead will cause the merchant to save money and with that being a tool to gain a competitive advantage expect these merchants to pass some of the savings on to their customers, either in the form of lower prices overall or in discounts for those paying with bitcoins.

High Risk Merchant Accounts

if one believes that bitcoins will be more desirable/valuable in the future than they are now (for whatever reason), then what rational person would spend coins instead of USD?

When I want to spend using funds that I have invested (e.g., shares of Apple) I need to sell off the specific amount of my investment in order to get the cash for my spending.   I might do this to lock in the gains, or simply because I wish to use the funds for consumption rather than investment.

Wouldn't it be nice if I could pay for my purchases using the investment directly (e.g., if my landlord accepted my Apple shares as payment) rather than having to sell them at the market and withdraw the proceeds to my bank?

Bitcoin as both an investment asset as well as a trading currency allows me to spend from the money I have in an investment without having to first convert it to fiat.
2164  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: accepting stolen bitcoins on: February 12, 2013, 06:54:34 AM
With mixing always being an option, any concept of taint becomes useless because taint can be mixed away so easily.

Bitcoins are fungible.  Deal with it.
2165  Economy / Economics / Re: Article: Amex/Twitter Pay by Tweet service on: February 12, 2013, 04:35:58 AM
Curious how one could tweet some bitcoins..

2166  Bitcoin / Technical Support / Re: Transaction Stuck, shown on the Unconfirmed List (w/ fees) Need Help Please!! on: February 12, 2013, 02:45:29 AM
I'm thinking it has something to do with these unconfirmed inputs but I'm really not sure!?

If there is even one input that won't confirm then your entire trx will not confirm.   Unfortunately the bitcoin qt client wasnt written expecting that you would be spending unconfirmed transactions.  Essentially there is no graceful recovery once you have as spend transaction that ends up being a double spend.  

Pywallet lets you remove all transactions and let the wallet fee resync.   That's a hassle for all but us techies.  Maybe transferring private keys to and emptying the wallet from there might beer the beat path forward for you.
2167  Economy / Speculation / Re: What would a fast exponential run-up look like? on: February 11, 2013, 12:55:01 PM
Most of all people would be wondering WTF was going on, endless theories would be postulated and debated.

A rising exchange rate doesn't indicate being any closer to mass adoption.  What does indicate being closer to mass adoption is things like BitcoinWireless expanding the "reach" of Bitcoin to millions of new potential users.  When things like Ripple expand the concept of alternative currencies to many millions as well.

These weren't available even six weeks ago.

If the market is overshooting, it will pull back.  But so far, it has been pretty good at seeing developments (e.g., potential of SatoshiDICE and other online gambling) and valuing the exchange rate to account for it before the actual demand resulting from these services shows up in blockchain activity.
2168  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: My friend has explained to me that Mtgox has some serious issues with processes! on: February 11, 2013, 12:28:02 PM
for a mere $50 US deposit this is how difficult the process is HuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuh?

If that was $50 USD sent via Dwollla, then you are probably not aware of the 30-day probationary period.  So even when Mt. Gox is ready, Dwolla won't send to them until your 30-day probation period has passed.

If you sent via wire, ... you got ripped on fees.

If you had read up, you could have deposited $50 cash at Chase and gotten funds credited at BitMe a few hours later, or next day at most, bought your coins and never had a need to "fume".
2169  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Do you use Bitcoin for payroll? on: February 11, 2013, 11:34:07 AM
For those of you actually doing this, what are the challenges associated with paying people with bitcoins?

P2P Foundation offers to its employees the ability to have a portion of (or all of) their salaries payable in bitcoins.

Bitcoin Foundation pays salaries in bitcoins.   The compensation rate in BTCs is computed periodically (e.g., quarterly) and then the same amount of bitcoins as compensation is paid out each payday.  I don't know if the value for W2 is computed based on the exchange rate on payday or if it uses the rate at the beginning of the quarter.
2170  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: #ucking satoshidice on: February 11, 2013, 11:02:13 AM
IT just adding so much to my wallet client.

Bitcoin v0.8 is at release candidate stage.  In a matter of a couple weeks probably this will all be past history.
2171  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: The Thash rate looks to be creeping up on: February 11, 2013, 10:52:50 AM
Estimated   3458370 in 1127 blks
Is it a record projected difficulty?

That would just squeak past the record prior high, yes: 3,438,909

History of difficulties:
2172  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: New to speculation, how do i report losses/gains for income tax? on: February 11, 2013, 10:45:29 AM
Could someone please explain how this works to a newbie?

You'll want to maintain accurate records yourself.

More info:
2173  Economy / Economics / Re: How economy grow with a deflationary currency? on: February 11, 2013, 10:29:15 AM
With a deflationary currency, people have the tendency to hoard,

Even though the currency is still inflating at a little over 10% per year for the next year or so, there are people convinced that the future demand over these next years will cause the exchange rate to rise.  So they are holding their coins ("hoarding", as you describe it), and the exchange rate is rising.

it is harder for businesses to make money in this kind of deflationary environment.

If these people weren't investing in bitcoins they would be putting their wealth in something else.  But for now, they're taking this money they would have invested elsewhere and have put it in bitcoin and are not spending it on consumption.   They wouldn't have spent that money anyways .. .they are speculators and investors, and they invest with some of their income and wealth and use some for consumption as well.

If I am not mistaken, since the inception of Bitcoin economy, in this system, very few business has been more profitable than hoarders.

Agreeing with you 100% on that.  Yet nearly every day there's some type of Bitcoin-based venture launched.

So, if it's not good for trading, it's destined to be a tool for speculation?

Nope, because there still are reasons bitcoins are useful for spending.  What is the easiest way to send money to your favorite online gambling service today?   Bitcoin.   Bitcoin is the largest online payments system that works without participation of the banks, and thus gaming services use it without concern about funds being frozen.  How is BitcoinStore able to undercut Amazon and NewEgg?  Because they use the lowest cost payment network (fees about a penny or less) with no chargeback risk -- from customers anywhere in the world.  And on and on.  There will be people using bitcoins for the benefits of bitcoin.    Merchants will adopt bitcoin because there are bitcoins to be spent.  It matters not that some value of bitcoins will not be used in spending.  If you are concerned about that you are looking at the wrong side of the equation.  Or at least one there is no control over.  Bitcoin is not an academic study or theoretical concept.  It exists today.  If there will be huge amounts of value transferred into it, there will huge amounts of value transferred into it.  That's the way free markets work.
2174  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Escrow service? on: February 11, 2013, 10:17:18 AM
are there any professional ones?


Escrow list
2175  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: Any other US based CASH IN MAIL exchangers besides Bitcopia? on: February 11, 2013, 10:13:48 AM
Not that there's anything wrong with bitcopia, but it would be good to have a backup to sell coins for cash incase they go down.

In the U.S.?

Bitcoin to Cash LLC is offering the following services to the public:

Cash in the mail
Cash transfers to any Wells Fargo or Bank of America accounts
Cash deposits at your bank(if available in the area)(list below)

Bitcoin to Cash LLC (USPS, WF & BofA account transfer, or cash deposit)
2176  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Good resource covering all the different wallet options? on: February 11, 2013, 09:56:49 AM
Can someone point me to a guide explaining all the different types of wallets that exist and the pro/cons of each?

- Full client: The client downloads and manages the blockchain
Examples: Bitcoin-Qt, bitcoind,

- Simplified Payments Verification (SPV):
Examples: MultiBit, Bitcoin Wallet for Android

- Mobile client to a back-end server.
Examples: Bitcoin Spinner

- Mobile hybrid client with a back end, but the wallet is stored locally.
Examples: Blockchain for Android, iOS

- Hosted (shared) E-Wallet:  Users have accounts with the service.  All private keys are owned and stored by the service provider.  There is a high risk without two-factor authentication.   InstaWallet, EasyWallet, and all offer "low security wallets" where simply knowing the URL is all that is needed to spend the funds.  Others require a username / password or other authentication credentials.
Examples:, Coinbase, Mt. Gox, etc. and even services that provide walleting for customer funds -- like bitZino.

- Hybrid E-Wallet: Only an encrypted form of the private keys are stored with the service.  The wallet is accessed from a local data store. 
Examples:  and StrongCoin

- Physical wallet.  Private key travels with a physical object.
Example: Casascius physical bitcoins, BitAddress paper wallet.

Some more information on several of these:
2177  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: My friend has explained to me that Mtgox has some serious issues with processes! on: February 11, 2013, 09:41:17 AM
At this stage my friend is on the verge of convincing me we can easily upstage Mtgox by opening our own exchange and flooring this disrespectful company in the way it most definitely deserves - Not my words.

There already are alternate exchanges -- but there is always room for competition.  Coinbase, for instance, isn't a market exchange but they now report a run-rate of seling one million USD worth of coins a month, with 1% fees (at least 66% higher than Mt. Gox's).
2178  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: [ANN] - a location-based bitcoin to cash marketplace on: February 11, 2013, 02:34:21 AM
The last two times that I've funded a transaction I've not received the e-mail notification that would include the SMS code to release the funds.  I can login to the site and get this but previously I was getting the message as an e-mail which I could access from my phone.

Is anyone else finding that this e-mail notification isn't arriving?   A later message after I release the funds (which includes the Verify code that I then give to the buyer) does go through so LocalBitcoins is sending those messages but it appears to just not be sending the one with the instructions for how to release via SMS.   I've checked my spam folder and these are not showing there either.

2179  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: How to convert a lot of USD to Bitcoins with minimal fees? on: February 11, 2013, 01:45:39 AM
I am new here and have been reading a lot but im not exactly sure where the best place to convert about $2000 into bitcoins would be with minimal fees.

Question:  What's worse, buying a BTC today at $24 and paying an additional $1 for the fee or buying a BTC tomorrow for $25 where there is no fee?

Of course, they are the same -- the end result is $25 either way.

If the exchange rate was stable you'ld probably want to go for the method with the lowest fees.    With the exchange rate rising, quick beats cheap.

But the factors relevant to providing the right answer to that include:

 - Where are you located (country)?
 - How much are you looking to buy?  [You answered about $2K]
 - What payment methods do you have available?
 - How soon do you need access to the proceeds?
 - Is privacy important?

A bank transfer is going to be the cheapest method. 

In the U.S. you can buy bitcoins at a 1% fee through Coinbase using a bank transfer.  The problem there is that they are limiting that to $100 maximum per-day.  You do get to lock in the price immediately though.

Dwolla is another inexpensive method to move cash from your bank account to a Bitcoin exchange (currently just Camp BX or Mt. Gox but they require you to verify your identity before they will credit your Dwolla deposit to your account.   The problem with that again is the amount of time involved as Dwolla transfers from your bank take several days.  But the price is right ... $0.25 per transaction.

A cash deposit method can also be inexpensive. doesn't charge for cash deposits.  The problem there is they don't have enough sellers at near market price, so you end up overpaying a little when buying coins.  That will change hopefully as more sellers trust them but for now that's the limitation:

Or you might find a local trade (paying cash):

Or if you are considering a bank transfer, there all kinds of options are available:
2180  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Bitcoin named denominations on: February 11, 2013, 01:36:24 AM
so for now, I guess I will refer to:

.05 = 5 bitcents
.10 = 10 bitcents
.25 = 25 bitcents

when offering promotions

millibits is more commonly used.  Online gambling services like BitZino and others are all at the millibits denomination.  Ogrr has been using millibits as its currency unit for trades there for quite some time.   While bitcents isn't wrong, it probably isn't best.  But hey, this is bitcoin  Do what you want.

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