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April 17, 2014, 01:09:09 AM *
News: ♦♦ A bug in OpenSSL, used by Bitcoin-Qt/Bitcoin Core, could allow your bitcoins to be stolen. Immediately updating Bitcoin Core to 0.9.1 is required in some cases, especially if you're using 0.9.0. Download. More info.
The same bug also affected the forum. Changing your forum password is recommended.
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2161  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: what about privacy? if all transactions are public, you can easily trace account on: January 03, 2013, 12:49:43 AM
but what manages all those addresses!? what program...payment manager

Well, if you are using a payment processor, the address exists in their wallet.  Then when a payment is sent, only then does that address appear in the blockchain.

Here's a useful example:


Those addresses are created, on the fly, by the javascript code in your browser.   You can save a copy of that page (e.g., to thumb drive), then disconnect your computer from the Internet, reboot and while disconnected load that page and generate more addresses.  None of those addresses are known anywhere else.  But they are entirely valid addresses that can be used.

When you give the Bitcoin address (the Load & Verify) to someone else and they send a payment then that's when the blockchain first sees that address. There's no "management" of addresses, there's simply transactions to addresses.
so if this 'manager' were to pay an address 100 btc, it would transfer funds from say 250 different address to that 1 address? and this entire transaction would be all under yet a new and unique address?

Bitcoin transactions are simply inputs and outputs.  An input is one or more payment that was previously received in a wallet.   An output is one or more payment destinations.   Here's a typical transaction:

Alice wants to send 2 BTC to Bob.  Bob prints a paper bitcoin using and shows the "Load & Verify" Bitcoin address to Alice.  So Bob's address for this transaction is Address W.

Alice's wallet has a 1 BTC payment (that she received at Address X) and a 5 BTC payment (that she received at Address Y).  So to send to Bob 2 BTC, the transaction needs to use both of those transactions, so the total amount of inputs is 6 BTC (5 + 1 = 6).   The total amount being sent (the total amount of outputs) is 2 BTC.  So the change would be 4 BTC.    Alice's client will generate a new address for the change, Address Z.   Except, there should also be a fee paid, so let's say a fee of 0.0005 BTC is going to be being paid.

The transaction then looks like:

Address X: 1.0 BTC  (An earlier payment Alice received)
Address Y: 5.0 BTC  (Another earlier payment Alice received)

Address W: 2.0 BTC   (The payment to Bob)
Address Z: 3.9995 BTC  (The change back to Alice)

If you add up the inputs:  6.0 BTC
Add up the outputs:  5.9995 BTC.
Difference?  0.0005 BTC.  Any difference between the INPUTS and OUTPUTS goes to the miner.

Here's an example of a transaction.  In this instance, there was just one input needed.  It was a wager to SatoshiDICE, with a fee paid:
(At the bottom of the page, click the Advanced: Enable)   That way you will get a link for the (output) as well.

Now, ... nobody needs to know any of this to just use Bitcoin.  You are asking questions about the innards of the system.

If you use the Bitcoin-Qt client, for instance, none of this is really exposed.  You have a Balance.  You send payments.   To receive a payment, you click New Address.  That's simple.   Easy peazy.  (Well, except for the confirmations thing ... that is one difference from your online banking, for instance.)

There are shared (hosted) EWallets that make it even easier.  PayTunia, or CoinBase, for instance, remove anything that isn't necessary to use Bitcoin.   And InstaWallet even removes the need for a username and password (presuming you bookmark the URL).
2162  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: Need 3.2 bitcoins with PayPal - Can PAY NOW on: January 03, 2013, 12:03:25 AM
I need 3.2 bitcoins (yes, just that) and I have no idea where to get.

You can use PayPal to buy Second Life Lindens (SLLs) on VirWoX. Then those SLLs can be converted to bitcoins:

If you have a PayPal debit card (or credit card), you have another option.

You can also use a credit card through LiqPay with an account at

Also, cash works well for buying bitcoins. Your prepaid debit card can be used at an ATM to withdraw cash. Then that cash can be used at any Chase location for deposit to your BitMe exchange account:

Or at a Moneygram location using BitInstant:

You could also try to find a trade on Bitcoin-OTC marketplace. The seller's trust history is relevant so that you don't get scammed by sending payment and not receiving the coins you paid for:


There are other methods that might work for you as well:
2163  Economy / Gambling / Re: Satoshi Dice.... on: January 02, 2013, 11:50:18 PM
How is it possible that Satoshi D. has given away a million bitcoins so far ?

Maybe because they've taken in 1.02 million BTC in wagers?
With 1.9% house advantage then just takewhatever the payouts are and multiple that times 1.02 to know roughly the amount of wagers.
2164  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Looking to accept USD and transfer to Bitcoin on: January 02, 2013, 10:42:51 PM
Hello everyone!
I have been looking for a way to seamlessly accept USD and Bitcoin, but have all USD values exchanged for Bitcoin before it is given to me. Basically what I am trying to say is: Is there a merchant service out there that accepts USD and Bitcoin, and gives me Bitcoin as the final currency? I have looked, but so far I can only find services that return USD, NOT Bitcoin. Any help is greatly appreciated!

Are you asking about something that allows you to accept credit card payments but then get paid in bitcoins? 

That has been something requested but there are no processors that provide this.  The best you can do is use a bank account in the middle, so the merchant processor delivers the funds by ACH to your bank account, then you pull those to an exchange (using Dwolla, for example).

Or just accept Dwolla itself and then send the funds to an exchange:

For physical cash (currency) payments, ZipZap might be the closest maybe:

It uses MoneyGram.  That's what BitInstant built their business around.

2165  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Syncing wallet? on: January 02, 2013, 10:33:47 PM
I assume that the 1MaN... should be the same as my receiving address of 1BQGH...
Or that there should be some way for me to deposit the money in the 1MaN...address into my wallet at 1BQGH....

This is just a hunch, but did you leave checked the "Make Anonymous?" where it will mix the coins sent to you?

If so, then the address that BitInstant sent to you will not be in your wallet.  

If the mixer is out of coins (which is entirely possible, ... being that those who bought coins through PingIt aren't getting theirs right away either), then this problem could be related:

Apologies for the delay, the cause is due to us being out of coins. A wire transfer was sent to an exchange 6 days ago which should clear anytime now, normally they only take 24 hours.
All pending transactions will hopefully clear tonight. Fees will be waived for any transactions delayed more than 2 hours.

2166  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: - DO NOT USE AT PRESENT. on: January 02, 2013, 10:27:04 PM
It's funny how they have time to delete threads on their support page, but not to give any actual support.

The response came late, but here's what it says:

Apologies for the delay, the cause is due to us being out of coins. A wire transfer was sent to an exchange 6 days ago which should clear anytime now, normally they only take 24 hours.
All pending transactions will hopefully clear tonight. Fees will be waived for any transactions delayed more than 2 hours.

That's the problem with relying on a service that itself relies on both the banking system and an exchange as well.  And in this instance that exchange (presumably Mt. gox) is in a different timezone and with different banking holidays.

But waiting until late Jan 2nd to report a problem that was known ... what, on December 31st (?) is uncool.

[Edit: And this issue is ONLY with those using for buying coins, and of that mostly with Pingit.  There are no problems with using the wallet with your own coins (though I'm not sure if the mixer was also affected by this issue.).]
2167  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: what about privacy? if all transactions are public, you can easily trace account on: January 02, 2013, 09:16:38 PM
I don't think you understand.

it is a complex process, to be fair.

Flow analysis using just the information from the blockchain won't give much info.    Combine that information to external sources, such as static bitcoin addresses used for donations, and now you can see all the donations given to that party.    But that's because bitcoin wasn't being used to protect privacy.  For instance, LewRockwell just started accepting bitcoins, but they use a payment processor and each transaction gets a new bitcoin address.

So there's no association between these transactions. Looking at the blockchain you might be able to determine that LewRockwell donations ended up being sold in bulk by the payment processor but you couldn't tell which of those coins were LewRockwell donations versus BitconStore purchases (another of the 2,000 merchants that use BitPay).

Flow analysis linked to third party info:
 -  <--- Looks like the author got bored (or frustrated) trying to figure out who bought what with bitcoins
2168  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Syncing wallet? on: January 02, 2013, 08:56:52 PM
Contacted support at bitinstant who sent me a link to my transaction showing a bitcoin address that is different from my wallet address.

So you chose the "Bitcoin to e-mail" method?  (Delivered by Coinapult?)  If so, that is a different service.   [Edit: The "cash deposit" goes right to the ZipZap / site, so that's probably not what happened in your instance.]

Now I cannot figure out how to 'deposit' or 'move' the bitcoins from that address into my wallet

If that is from Coinapult, then you simply "Withdraw" [I think that's the name of the button there] and when it asks for a Bitcoin address, paste the bitcoin address from your

Not sure.  Are you saying the Bitcoin address that BitInstant shows you is not one of the addresses shown in your wallet under the Receive Money panel?

That panel shows a tab for Archived addresses.  Make sure your Bitcoin address isn't hidden in there either.
2169  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: about security between the two parties on: January 02, 2013, 08:49:37 PM
but then who or what ensures and enforces that both parties are being honest?, isn't that the job OF a middle man to ensure security?

Bitcoin ensures that when you are paid that the transaction will not be later reversed.  There are varying risks when you receive a transaction but after a few seconds it can be determined to be a very low chance of the payment being reversed (due to a race attack double spend attempt), then after one confirmation (i.e., after about ten minutes, on average) there is an even lesser chance.  Then by six confirmations (average about an hour) it is mathematically certain to be non-reversible (with a lone exception of a 51% attack).

So, if you are sending cash to someone and don't trust them, consider using an escrow partner.  Or pay with credit card so you have the dispute protections.  If  you are planning on scamming someone by means of a chargeback, definitely pay with credit card and not with bitcoin because with bitcoin there is no forced dispute resolution.  [Edit: Said this way not to encourage scamming but to highlight Bitcoin's strength against a payment method that is reversible.]

If you are accepting bitcoins from someone in exchange for something of value then you can know that there is no intermediary that will extract those coins from you at a later time.
2170  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: how to add btc payment to my website on: January 02, 2013, 07:59:33 PM
i have a website offering video service , my website is static html how can i add accepting btc to my website?

There are "payment buttons" for single item purchases.  BitPay, WalletBit, Mt. Gox merchant tools, etc. all have them I believe.

What you could do then is set the response URL (after payment is made) to be the link for downloading the video (presuming that's what you meant by "video service").

Or you could just link the "buy now" button to the item's entry on CoinDL:

2171  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: BUY / SELL BITCOINS UK MJB MONETARY METALS ( BitcoinFridge ) - AVAILABLE 24/7 on: January 02, 2013, 07:06:26 PM
The forms located via the verify button at - Which is where I'll be trading btc from rather than

Glad to see you back trading.

The load time for the graphics on the site is longer than reasonable, I thought is was my shared wi-fi connection but then even on a cablemodem it is slow.
2172  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Problems assigning GA (google athenticator) @ cryptocoin exchange on: January 02, 2013, 06:42:37 PM
But you did get the code (scan QR code) with your OTP/Google Authenticator?  It just is that the site doesn't accept the OTP code generated by it?

If your device's clock is off, that could be a problem.  Try turning on time sync:

If the problem is that the site's clock is off, try a few more times maybe there's a chance one of them will fall inside the expiration window.

tried mailing the guyz from crypto but no response just yet.

If the above doesn't help then there's not much more you can do.   

2173  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: PicoStocks, bitcoin stock exchange on: January 02, 2013, 06:06:57 PM
investments have to compete with the BTC deflation and the expected dividend threshold is much higher here than anywhere else. It is pointless to try to float a not convincing venture here but it can be still interesting from the tax point of view.

An equity whose revenues are in fiat can act as a hedge though, so their values go up as the bitcoin exchange rate goes down, possibly at an even faster rate (especially if it has earnings).  At least in theory, ... there's been a fourteen-month bitcoin rally going on so there haven't been many opportunities to see if this is true in practice as well.
2174  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Problems assigning GA (google athenticator) @ cryptocoin exchange on: January 02, 2013, 05:38:31 PM
cryptocoin exchange

Are you referring to this exchange?
2175  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: bitinstant / zipzap wont sent my bitcoin on: January 02, 2013, 05:34:19 PM
i just did 2 moneygram payments to bitinstant, they received both payments however only sent me bitcoins for one of them. has been over 2 hours.
what can i do? ive called and emailed them but cant reach them.

The likely reason you sent two was because of the $500 per-transaction limit?    When there are delays, sending multiple times at once is often the common denominator and MoneyGram holding up the second payment is often the cause of a delay.  

Two hours ... isn't necessarily a significant delay (requiring manual prodding), but BitInstant has a support thread.  You might want to post your inquiry there.

Official Newbie BitInstant Support Thread (Active Customer Support)
2176  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: what about privacy? if all transactions are public, you can easily trace account on: January 02, 2013, 09:03:23 AM
what about privacy?

since all transactions are public, you can just go through the blocks and trace an account to individual / groups

Bitcoin is not anonymous.  It is pseudonymous.  Or, as Jon Matonis describes it, Bitcoin has user-definable anonymity.

That's why no bitcoin thief has been identified from the bitcoins they've stolen -- they are using methods to protect privacy.  

But there aren't many clues to tie identity to a bitcoin address unless either the sender or recipient (or both) don't care about privacy and do stuff like use a static address for receiving payments.

well really obvious ones, like for example, a account with 10,000 Bitcoin per month revenue,

The way most merchants work is that there is one Bitcoin address for each customer payment transaction.  

there are only so many organizations capable of that, and through process of elimination and probably other tracing techniques, you can find out the EXACT amount of bitcoins any individual/group has.

Nope.  Especially if the merchant uses a payment process (such as BitPay, or WalletBit, etc.

You might take a moment to peruse the Bitcoin wiki.  Bitcoin can be a complex topic, depending on the level of detain needed, but the wiki provides some great information:


2177  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: would someone describe realistic mining expectations on: January 02, 2013, 08:51:15 AM
so if you mine in a pool, if the pool gets a block, everyone gets a share of the reward right?

Depends on the pool and the payment method.  And the payout is going to be relative to the amount of work performed, so not every miner gets an equal share.  Someone mining with three times the hashing capacity of another gets three times the revenues.

As far as the amount of proceeds from mining that can be expected, that is entirely up to three things:  
1.) The exchange rate at a future point in time.  (That's like on January 1st asking if your investment in AAPL stock will be profitable at the end fo the year.  Nobody knows.)
2.) The difficulty at a future point in time.  (Again, this is unknown.)
3.) The amount of hashing power you are using (and, for calculation, your cost of electricity, and which hardware you have so that the amount of electricity consumption can be estimated).

Given those three, then your returns from mining can be determined.
2178  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: My roadmap to bitcoins success. on: January 01, 2013, 09:19:35 PM
These simple steps are basicly what Im doing with bitcoin, I'd love to hear suggestions on what the next ones should be and what you guys are doing differently.

Those are laudable!

I've been experimenting with handing out various amounts of bitcoins on paper bitcoins that I carry with me in my wallet.  I do the sending right there from my mobile (usually, but I also like BitcoinSpinner app) to show how easy it is to pay using bitcoins.

I have explained that I made these paper bitcoins "expirable" and that they need to transfer the funds to their own wallet (usually I give it like a two months before redeeming any unclaimed wallets).  I've been disappointed in how many actually get redeemed.   In many of the scenarios the person I talked to didn't have a smartphone or way to scan the QR code.  I know they can be redeemed by the base58 private key that is printed as well, but that's not a workable solution so I don't put that out there as an option.

I think if there were a store with a QR reader (e.g., that will get you coffee or tea at this shop)  that I could direct these people to they woud be redeemed at a much higher rate.

Also, if I put more than a token amount these probably would get redeemed more often as well.  I do explain that even small amounts can be cashed out to a bank account via ACH ( but I doubt many are going though that effort for fifty cents worth. Smiley
2179  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: Advise needed on: January 01, 2013, 08:03:28 PM
Whats wrong with LTC mining on  GPU's as ASIC & FGPA dont work for LTC Huh

Presuming you are mining for the purpose of profit, then that's what's wrong with it.   There is none (unless, just like with Bitcoin mining, you pay well below average electric rates.)

At the current LTC/USD exchange rate of about $0.07, that means that the 28K LTC mined each day all together produce less than $2K USD per day.

From another thread:

a bunch will switch to ltc (litecoin) mining

Every time I see that assertion I think of this:

With Bitcoin about $80K USD worth of bitcoins are distributed to the hashing provided by miners.   With Litecoin that is about $2K USD worth of LTC issuance.

Since each addtional GPU becomes essentially another mouth to feed it lowers the revenue for the other miners.  The reason the GPUs will be arriving is because they could no longer mine bitcoin profitably.  They won't stick with mining LTC unless it too can be done so profitably.

i.e., it soon will be time to power down your GPU rigs.

I think most people who are going to jump to LTC will do so hoping the price will increase. But then I wonder, if they're expecting the price to increase just to the point it's profitable, why is the price not going up today, when you can buy them for cheap? My only conclusion: nobody cares.

2180  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: SatoshiDice, lack of remedies, and poor ISP options are pushing me toward "Lite" on: January 01, 2013, 07:57:13 PM
We're not close to reaching the block size limit

You and I have differing opinions on what "close" is then.

Here are the last 10 blocks:

214657   48.711
214656   31.016
214655   133.286
214654   261.695
214653   15.265
214652   42.617
214651   36.039
214650   204.577
214649   3.489
214648   214.828

The average for these is about 100K.

And it appears to be approaching the rate of 300 transactions per block (about 43K transactions per-day). 

This is a transaction every two seconds.

A lot of these are microtransactions (e.g., under a dollar's worth of coins) used for wagering, so the blockchain already has a way of limiting those:

If the blocksize is more than 250 kB, transactions get increasingly more expensive as the blocksize approaches the limit of 500 kB. Sending a transaction when the blocksize is 400 kB will cost 5 times the normal amount; sending when it's 499 kB will cost 500x, etc.

But twelve months ago no SatoshiDICE existed and nobody knows what 2013's breakaway Bitcoin success story will be but what if there are four of them, each as popular as SatoshiDICE is today.    Then the blockchain size limit (at the current restrictions) will be reached.
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