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2281  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Scammed by TORWallet! on: January 03, 2013, 05:53:42 PM
The TORWallet site is still up and I've asked the operator of the hosting company for status on the takedown requests.

The response indicated that there have been no reports to him [Edit: with supporting evidence] of anyone being scammed (and thus without that, no take-down action is forthcoming).  I've provided the hosting provider's email to multiple people who have inquired via PM, but I cannot say with certainty that any have submitted a report of having been scammed [Edit: or if contacted him, provided evidence].

Should anyone wish report their losses, here's the contact information:

Please email me directly,

[Edit: I would think all the evidence needed is a screenshot of the "Hot wallet exhausted" message right?]
2282  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Paper Blockchain? on: January 03, 2013, 05:28:45 PM
What if we had a machine that printed out the entire blockchain?

What good does that do you if most everyone's private keys are wiped as well?
2283  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Historical question: on: January 03, 2013, 05:07:50 PM
Personally I found the starting point a 50 BTC block reward (as opposed to say 64) to be more "strange" - am guessing the only reason for this particular number was to try and "appeal" to non-nerds (not that there probably are any that would be mining BTC).

Well, they outnumber us by about an order of magnitude so preferring 50 and 25 versus 64 and 32 is obvious.

Like all aspects of Bitcoins initial design, it was decided by Satoshi.

Quote from: satoshi
I wanted something that would be not too low if it was very popular and not too high if it wasn't.

There are some people who think that Facebook ($FB) is a better stock than Alcoa ($AA) because a share of Facebook trades at $25 versus $9 for Alcoa.  These same people don't generally trade themselves so a basic understanding of stock prices isn't necessary for them. 

I personally didn't appreciate this until Bitcoin hit parity and suddenly instead of Bitcoin being these fake bits it was now "worth more than a dollar, so it must be somehow legit".   

The benefit of this decision helped bitcoin (in the court of public opinion) when it was critically needed.    What many sites are doing is displaying the amount of bitcoins in one field and right next to it is that amount's value in dollars.    This will ease the concern when we start seeing things priced in mBTCs -- where at one site you are paying 130 millibits for an item and at the next one the price is listed as 0.137 BTC.

2284  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Reversible Payments on: January 03, 2013, 02:14:42 PM
So how exactly is a MoneyPak reversible?  Huh

From another thread:

1.) You buy a MoneyPak at the store.  Smile for the camera.
2.) You send the MoneyPak to me along with the receipt, date and amount.  I then use the MoneyPak code to load my debit card. It works so I send to you bitcoins.
3.) You make an attempt to load your debit card with the code that you know has already been redeemed.  It fails.  You call Green Dot and claim you couldn't redeem the code.
4.) I try to use my debit card and it has no funds.  I check online, and the funds are gone.  I call Green Dot.  They ask me to provide the receipt where I bought the MoneyPak.  Hm ... I don't live anywhere near the address.  Was I traveling?  Nope.  I have to explain I bought the code online.

Because Green Dot specifically says the card is for the purpose of loading funds into your own reloadable debit card, they side with the customer who paid at the store and then was not able to load his card.
2285  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Looking to accept USD and transfer to Bitcoin on: January 03, 2013, 02:40:54 AM
the biggest thing I can think of would be the conversion process and what possible regulations there are for accepting USD for bitcoins.

I can't see any legal reason a payment processor couldn't pay out in bitcoins.  If there is the same AML/KYC followed as when paying out with a bank payment, then there shouldn't be any reason bitcoins couldn't be paid out instead.

More likely what would happen is that the merchants attracted to this might be the ones who have a higher risk of seeing chargebacks.  It may seem that there would be little difference between a merchant processor paying out for the charges via an ACH and then the merchant immediately sweeping those funds to a bitcoin exchange versus the merchant processor directly paying out for the charges in bitcoin.  Probably a difference is that when simply tossing the proceeds over to the the bank account there is less responsibility for the merchant processor (e.g., doesn't need to register as a money transmitter maybe?)

For the same reason, that's probably why there are no methods to receive other digital currency methods like Liberty Reserve either.

One other possibility is using LiqPay as a credit card merchant processor.  VirWoX and BTC-E, for instance, both use it in exchange for hard money. 

And, from another thread:

There are cash payment methods that might be a good middle ground.  UKash vouchers and CashU cards are sold in much of the world.  Thus if you have a CashU account, you can receive funds from other CashU users who have funded their accounts using cash (Ukash, CashU card, etc.) just like PayPal's person-to-person payments works.

You can then use those CashU funds to purchase bitcoins if you want (or withdraw to your bank.)


Also LiqPay is another method and they do accept credit card.   LiqPay then apparently can be used with OKPay, and then used for purchase of bitcoins.
2286  Bitcoin / Technical Support / Re: Help - lost bitcoins!! on: January 03, 2013, 01:37:16 AM
Because this is a deterministic process
I mean one wallet.dat is based on one initial set of private keys

Nope.  The client might someday use a deterministic wallet, but today it does not.

Additionally, those clients that do you a deterministic wallet and also allow the user to import private keys also need to be backed up after each import due to those Bitcoin addresses not being generated from the deterministic key.

And to reiterate:

The wallet.dat contains, by default. a key pool of the next 100 addresses your client will use.  An address is consumed each time you click "New Address" and then each time a change transaction (back to yourself) is made it pulls one address from the key pool.   The keypool is topped up after each time an address is drawn from it.  (with a few exceptions).

So you as long as your backup is newer than the past 100 transactions it should have all the keys in it.
2287  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 02-01-2012 - Silk Road Crossing: Shopping On The Internet's M on: January 03, 2013, 01:17:06 AM
Surprisingly neutral article about Silk Road, single chapter about Bitcoin:

Yup.  Maybe after her description about how hard bitcoins were to obtain she'll end up with a friend or coworker trying to buy them off of her.

Incidentally, Akka, to prevent confusion over how a date is displayed, the YYYY-MM-DD is the convention to use for showing date in the thread titles here in the Press forum.
2288  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: what about privacy? if all transactions are public, you can easily trace account on: January 03, 2013, 12:49:43 AM
but what manages all those addresses!? what program...payment manager

Well, if you are using a payment processor, the address exists in their wallet.  Then when a payment is sent, only then does that address appear in the blockchain.

Here's a useful example:


Those addresses are created, on the fly, by the javascript code in your browser.   You can save a copy of that page (e.g., to thumb drive), then disconnect your computer from the Internet, reboot and while disconnected load that page and generate more addresses.  None of those addresses are known anywhere else.  But they are entirely valid addresses that can be used.

When you give the Bitcoin address (the Load & Verify) to someone else and they send a payment then that's when the blockchain first sees that address. There's no "management" of addresses, there's simply transactions to addresses.
so if this 'manager' were to pay an address 100 btc, it would transfer funds from say 250 different address to that 1 address? and this entire transaction would be all under yet a new and unique address?

Bitcoin transactions are simply inputs and outputs.  An input is one or more payment that was previously received in a wallet.   An output is one or more payment destinations.   Here's a typical transaction:

Alice wants to send 2 BTC to Bob.  Bob prints a paper bitcoin using and shows the "Load & Verify" Bitcoin address to Alice.  So Bob's address for this transaction is Address W.

Alice's wallet has a 1 BTC payment (that she received at Address X) and a 5 BTC payment (that she received at Address Y).  So to send to Bob 2 BTC, the transaction needs to use both of those transactions, so the total amount of inputs is 6 BTC (5 + 1 = 6).   The total amount being sent (the total amount of outputs) is 2 BTC.  So the change would be 4 BTC.    Alice's client will generate a new address for the change, Address Z.   Except, there should also be a fee paid, so let's say a fee of 0.0005 BTC is going to be being paid.

The transaction then looks like:

Address X: 1.0 BTC  (An earlier payment Alice received)
Address Y: 5.0 BTC  (Another earlier payment Alice received)

Address W: 2.0 BTC   (The payment to Bob)
Address Z: 3.9995 BTC  (The change back to Alice)

If you add up the inputs:  6.0 BTC
Add up the outputs:  5.9995 BTC.
Difference?  0.0005 BTC.  Any difference between the INPUTS and OUTPUTS goes to the miner.

Here's an example of a transaction.  In this instance, there was just one input needed.  It was a wager to SatoshiDICE, with a fee paid:
(At the bottom of the page, click the Advanced: Enable)   That way you will get a link for the (output) as well.

Now, ... nobody needs to know any of this to just use Bitcoin.  You are asking questions about the innards of the system.

If you use the Bitcoin-Qt client, for instance, none of this is really exposed.  You have a Balance.  You send payments.   To receive a payment, you click New Address.  That's simple.   Easy peazy.  (Well, except for the confirmations thing ... that is one difference from your online banking, for instance.)

There are shared (hosted) EWallets that make it even easier.  PayTunia, or CoinBase, for instance, remove anything that isn't necessary to use Bitcoin.   And InstaWallet even removes the need for a username and password (presuming you bookmark the URL).
2289  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: Need 3.2 bitcoins with PayPal - Can PAY NOW on: January 03, 2013, 12:03:25 AM
I need 3.2 bitcoins (yes, just that) and I have no idea where to get.

You can use PayPal to buy Second Life Lindens (SLLs) on VirWoX. Then those SLLs can be converted to bitcoins:

If you have a PayPal debit card (or credit card), you have another option.

You can also use a credit card through LiqPay with an account at

Also, cash works well for buying bitcoins. Your prepaid debit card can be used at an ATM to withdraw cash. Then that cash can be used at any Chase location for deposit to your BitMe exchange account:

Or at a Moneygram location using BitInstant:

You could also try to find a trade on Bitcoin-OTC marketplace. The seller's trust history is relevant so that you don't get scammed by sending payment and not receiving the coins you paid for:


There are other methods that might work for you as well:
2290  Economy / Gambling / Re: Satoshi Dice.... on: January 02, 2013, 11:50:18 PM
How is it possible that Satoshi D. has given away a million bitcoins so far ?

Maybe because they've taken in 1.02 million BTC in wagers?
With 1.9% house advantage then just takewhatever the payouts are and multiple that times 1.02 to know roughly the amount of wagers.
2291  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Looking to accept USD and transfer to Bitcoin on: January 02, 2013, 10:42:51 PM
Hello everyone!
I have been looking for a way to seamlessly accept USD and Bitcoin, but have all USD values exchanged for Bitcoin before it is given to me. Basically what I am trying to say is: Is there a merchant service out there that accepts USD and Bitcoin, and gives me Bitcoin as the final currency? I have looked, but so far I can only find services that return USD, NOT Bitcoin. Any help is greatly appreciated!

Are you asking about something that allows you to accept credit card payments but then get paid in bitcoins? 

That has been something requested but there are no processors that provide this.  The best you can do is use a bank account in the middle, so the merchant processor delivers the funds by ACH to your bank account, then you pull those to an exchange (using Dwolla, for example).

Or just accept Dwolla itself and then send the funds to an exchange:

For physical cash (currency) payments, ZipZap might be the closest maybe:

It uses MoneyGram.  That's what BitInstant built their business around.

2292  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Syncing wallet? on: January 02, 2013, 10:33:47 PM
I assume that the 1MaN... should be the same as my receiving address of 1BQGH...
Or that there should be some way for me to deposit the money in the 1MaN...address into my wallet at 1BQGH....

This is just a hunch, but did you leave checked the "Make Anonymous?" where it will mix the coins sent to you?

If so, then the address that BitInstant sent to you will not be in your wallet.  

If the mixer is out of coins (which is entirely possible, ... being that those who bought coins through PingIt aren't getting theirs right away either), then this problem could be related:

Apologies for the delay, the cause is due to us being out of coins. A wire transfer was sent to an exchange 6 days ago which should clear anytime now, normally they only take 24 hours.
All pending transactions will hopefully clear tonight. Fees will be waived for any transactions delayed more than 2 hours.

2293  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: - DO NOT USE AT PRESENT. on: January 02, 2013, 10:27:04 PM
It's funny how they have time to delete threads on their support page, but not to give any actual support.

The response came late, but here's what it says:

Apologies for the delay, the cause is due to us being out of coins. A wire transfer was sent to an exchange 6 days ago which should clear anytime now, normally they only take 24 hours.
All pending transactions will hopefully clear tonight. Fees will be waived for any transactions delayed more than 2 hours.

That's the problem with relying on a service that itself relies on both the banking system and an exchange as well.  And in this instance that exchange (presumably Mt. gox) is in a different timezone and with different banking holidays.

But waiting until late Jan 2nd to report a problem that was known ... what, on December 31st (?) is uncool.

[Edit: And this issue is ONLY with those using for buying coins, and of that mostly with Pingit.  There are no problems with using the wallet with your own coins (though I'm not sure if the mixer was also affected by this issue.).]
2294  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: what about privacy? if all transactions are public, you can easily trace account on: January 02, 2013, 09:16:38 PM
I don't think you understand.

it is a complex process, to be fair.

Flow analysis using just the information from the blockchain won't give much info.    Combine that information to external sources, such as static bitcoin addresses used for donations, and now you can see all the donations given to that party.    But that's because bitcoin wasn't being used to protect privacy.  For instance, LewRockwell just started accepting bitcoins, but they use a payment processor and each transaction gets a new bitcoin address.

So there's no association between these transactions. Looking at the blockchain you might be able to determine that LewRockwell donations ended up being sold in bulk by the payment processor but you couldn't tell which of those coins were LewRockwell donations versus BitconStore purchases (another of the 2,000 merchants that use BitPay).

Flow analysis linked to third party info:
 -  <--- Looks like the author got bored (or frustrated) trying to figure out who bought what with bitcoins
2295  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Syncing wallet? on: January 02, 2013, 08:56:52 PM
Contacted support at bitinstant who sent me a link to my transaction showing a bitcoin address that is different from my wallet address.

So you chose the "Bitcoin to e-mail" method?  (Delivered by Coinapult?)  If so, that is a different service.   [Edit: The "cash deposit" goes right to the ZipZap / site, so that's probably not what happened in your instance.]

Now I cannot figure out how to 'deposit' or 'move' the bitcoins from that address into my wallet

If that is from Coinapult, then you simply "Withdraw" [I think that's the name of the button there] and when it asks for a Bitcoin address, paste the bitcoin address from your

Not sure.  Are you saying the Bitcoin address that BitInstant shows you is not one of the addresses shown in your wallet under the Receive Money panel?

That panel shows a tab for Archived addresses.  Make sure your Bitcoin address isn't hidden in there either.
2296  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: about security between the two parties on: January 02, 2013, 08:49:37 PM
but then who or what ensures and enforces that both parties are being honest?, isn't that the job OF a middle man to ensure security?

Bitcoin ensures that when you are paid that the transaction will not be later reversed.  There are varying risks when you receive a transaction but after a few seconds it can be determined to be a very low chance of the payment being reversed (due to a race attack double spend attempt), then after one confirmation (i.e., after about ten minutes, on average) there is an even lesser chance.  Then by six confirmations (average about an hour) it is mathematically certain to be non-reversible (with a lone exception of a 51% attack).

So, if you are sending cash to someone and don't trust them, consider using an escrow partner.  Or pay with credit card so you have the dispute protections.  If  you are planning on scamming someone by means of a chargeback, definitely pay with credit card and not with bitcoin because with bitcoin there is no forced dispute resolution.  [Edit: Said this way not to encourage scamming but to highlight Bitcoin's strength against a payment method that is reversible.]

If you are accepting bitcoins from someone in exchange for something of value then you can know that there is no intermediary that will extract those coins from you at a later time.
2297  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: how to add btc payment to my website on: January 02, 2013, 07:59:33 PM
i have a website offering video service , my website is static html how can i add accepting btc to my website?

There are "payment buttons" for single item purchases.  BitPay, WalletBit, Mt. Gox merchant tools, etc. all have them I believe.

What you could do then is set the response URL (after payment is made) to be the link for downloading the video (presuming that's what you meant by "video service").

Or you could just link the "buy now" button to the item's entry on CoinDL:

2298  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: BUY / SELL BITCOINS UK MJB MONETARY METALS ( BitcoinFridge ) - AVAILABLE 24/7 on: January 02, 2013, 07:06:26 PM
The forms located via the verify button at - Which is where I'll be trading btc from rather than

Glad to see you back trading.

The load time for the graphics on the site is longer than reasonable, I thought is was my shared wi-fi connection but then even on a cablemodem it is slow.
2299  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Problems assigning GA (google athenticator) @ cryptocoin exchange on: January 02, 2013, 06:42:37 PM
But you did get the code (scan QR code) with your OTP/Google Authenticator?  It just is that the site doesn't accept the OTP code generated by it?

If your device's clock is off, that could be a problem.  Try turning on time sync:

If the problem is that the site's clock is off, try a few more times maybe there's a chance one of them will fall inside the expiration window.

tried mailing the guyz from crypto but no response just yet.

If the above doesn't help then there's not much more you can do.   

2300  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: PicoStocks, bitcoin stock exchange on: January 02, 2013, 06:06:57 PM
investments have to compete with the BTC deflation and the expected dividend threshold is much higher here than anywhere else. It is pointless to try to float a not convincing venture here but it can be still interesting from the tax point of view.

An equity whose revenues are in fiat can act as a hedge though, so their values go up as the bitcoin exchange rate goes down, possibly at an even faster rate (especially if it has earnings).  At least in theory, ... there's been a fourteen-month bitcoin rally going on so there haven't been many opportunities to see if this is true in practice as well.
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