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2281  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Why is there a penny bot? on: January 18, 2013, 02:35:01 AM
There is a robot that executes very small trades apparently to astroturf the mtgox last trade price.  My question is why would someone spend perfectly good money to do that?

A lot of merchants set their exchange rate based on the current best bid at Mt. Gox bid, or on Mt. Gox last.  So if you are buying something of a larger value from a merchant that uses best bid as the rate, then it usually is worth the money to narrow the spread a little.  You can trade a few pennies on Mt. Gox and as a result maybe save a few dollars (or a lot more) by getting a better price quote from the merchant.

Coinbase is one such bitcoin seller that uses best bid.

I was thinking there would be a service by now that one could pay and it would attempt to raise the best bid.   Maybe someone has done this and that's what you are seeing.
2282  Economy / Economics / Re: [CHART] Bitcoin Actual Transaction Volume? (using "change is never last" bug) on: January 14, 2013, 04:25:47 AM
or we are really moving a shitload of money nowadays (maybe both).

Eyeballing this, it roughly correlates to an increased number of transactions as well. 

I would be curious to know if the average for output #1 is increasing much though.
2283  Economy / Web Wallets / Re: - Bitcoin Block explorer & Currency Statistics on: January 13, 2013, 11:50:55 PM
Bug report:  The amount field needs some input validation performed.  If the value has a trailing space (e.g., "0.12 " instead of "0.12", that amount will be recognized as  Satoshis (0.00000012 BTC) and not BTC.

This occurs for both Quick Send as well as Custom.
2284  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: An international transfer service using vending machines and skype on: January 13, 2013, 10:10:35 PM
It does so using a combination of two pairs of identical machines set up, one of each in a local store (serving said community) at the sending end, the other at the far-flung receiving end.  It also needs a new physical bitcoin token.

For bitcoin to be an alternative to traditional remittance transfers a convenient, inexpensive method for the recipient to obtain cash is needed.  The solution is convenient only when the recipient doesn't have to travel far and it is inexpensive when no intermediary is assessing fees to provide the convenience.

The average cost for this was about 10%, but the World Bank is attempting to effect a lowering of that to 5% through "enhanced information, transparency, competition and cooperation with partners":

Even 5% is more than enough to generate a nice little side income for people to trade bitcoins face-to-face.   So before there is a need for some machine to automate this process, what should be seen first is a growing number of individuals offering this trading.   When there is a sufficient amount of that activity, then steps to automate it at an even lesser cost start to make sense.
2285  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Bitinstant transfer problem on: January 13, 2013, 09:31:19 PM
Yankee if you are out there could you please look into this?

Rather than starting a new thread and hoping that BitInstant notices it, how about re-posting your inquiry in the BitInstant support thread:

BitInstant Support Thread (Active Customer Support)
2286  Economy / Gambling / Re: - New Online BTC Sportsbook on: January 13, 2013, 09:21:58 PM
if you have any ideas they're more than welcome!

You might want to submit your site to Mem's list:

2287  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: ICBIT Derivatives Market (USD/BTC futures trading) - LIVE on: January 13, 2013, 07:25:34 PM
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the math.

My apologies, you are correct.

I recomputed and the variation margin does indeed show correct.

Using the 15.879 selling price as the PriceClose, and the 15.575 (from the last variation margin print occurring a couple days earlier) as the PriceOpen and plunking those into the formula from:

VM = (-(1 / 15.879 - 1 / 15.575) * 10) = 0.01229199 BTC per contract (amounts below one satoshi gets truncated).

It still would be nice for there to be shown the history of daily clearing prices.  (And also the ability to access the charts and order book without first authenticating, incidentally.)
2288  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: TORWallet - Scammer on: January 13, 2013, 06:49:33 PM
Can someone please explain to be how a online wallet like is better then other ewallets?

When you access and enter your password, that password is not being sent to  Instead the Javascript code running in your browser uses that password decrypt the wallet that it obtained from (where only an encrypted copy of your wallet is stored).   So, doesn't have access to your private keys inside your wallet.

Because of this, it is not considered a hosted (shared) EWallet, but instead it falls under the category of a hybrid EWallet.  (Hybrid, because it acts like a locally installed client yet is accessible from a browser with no software installation required.)

There is the possibility that the site is compromised and the attacker replaces the Javascript that is served with the site with a version that captures the wallet identifier and password and then uses that to steal your bitcoins.   The protection against that is's tool called the Javascript Verifier, available as a browser plugin or Java applet.  The verifier will alert if the Javascript code served by the site is different from the version that has checked into GitHub.
2289  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: SERIOUS VULNERABILITY related to accepting zero-confirmation transactions on: January 13, 2013, 06:42:47 AM
I've been waiting for the right time to end Seals 0 confirm policy, seems like this is the time. It was really nice while it lasted, a playing with fire success story.

Because an online poker player can purposely lose to another player, that essentially is a form of an Account-To-Account (A2A) transfer, so that makes sense that a a confirmation or two is a requirement before the funds can be used for play.
2290  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Will/Should the decimal in BitCoin measurements be removed? on: January 13, 2013, 06:26:58 AM
It is possible people will call these by slang or informal names.  i.e. millies of mikes.

Millibit seems to be the most commonly used term for each 0.001 BTC (1 mBTC).
2291  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: ICBIT Derivatives Market (USD/BTC futures trading) - LIVE on: January 13, 2013, 03:52:03 AM
How come BUH3 the future for BTC trades at a rate much higher then the spot price of Bitcoin its self?

The academic explanation:

Well, this situation is well known in "bigger" future markets too - contango or backwardation situation. And it's quite normal for a futures to be in either contango or backwardation most of the time.


Another thread where this is discussed:

Why are bitcoins in december better than bitcoins today? (ICBIT)

And Fireball posted how to take advantage of these situations:

Spot/Futures Arbitrage (with some bots source code)

The situation likely exists due to ICBIT being one of the few methods where leverage exists.  One of the few other methods of obtaining leverage is to buy a call option at MPEx. for instance, however Bitcoin's volatility is so high that premiums for that are high as well.  There are other differences as well.  With options, you can hold those until expiration even if the exchange rate makes a huge move against you.  With a futures contract purchased using leverage, an investor could see forced margin selling as a result of an unfavorable move to the exchange rate.
2292  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: ICBIT Derivatives Market (USD/BTC futures trading) - LIVE on: January 12, 2013, 10:31:45 PM
The closing price for BUH3 was exactly the same (to three places) two days in a row!

Today (Jan 12, 2012) was the second day in a row with no print for variation margin on BUH3 (meaning the same clearing price three days in a row), and now today had no print for variation margin on CLG3 either.

I then made a trade after the Jan 12 clearing time where I sold BUH3.  It printed a variation margin with last= my selling price.  But in doing the math to verify, it doesn't jive if the last clearing price on BUH3 was still  "last = 15.5750", and instead the Jan 12th clearing would have needed to have been an amount higher than that.

Fireball, whassup with that?
  [Edit: i goofed in my calculation.  icbit did compute the variation margin correctly.]
2293  Economy / Speculation / Re: The Bitcoin Millionaire Syndrome extreme Bitcoin speculation and Bitcoin Economy on: January 12, 2013, 03:54:20 AM
Is it possible that this thinking and behavior is [...] detrimental to the expansion of the Bitconomy?

If I have $100 USD at an exchange, I can buy about $100 worth of bitcoins.

Then the person I send those coins to can go to the same exchange and convert those bitcoins back to just about $100 USD. There will be some loss due to exchange fees, so maybe when all is said and done the person I sent the coins to gets only $99.

The point is that this process is identical whether you are sitting on your coins or not. This is also identical whether the BTC/USD exchange rate is $14 or $40.

Where the problem comes in with you sitting on coins is whether you will you continue to hold if there is a selloff underway, and thus make the selloff even worse.

So the problem comes down to it contributing to "hoarding" increases exchange rate risk.  But it does not prevent others from using bitcoins as a currency for trade.
2294  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: SERIOUS VULNERABILITY related to accepting zero-confirmation transactions on: January 12, 2013, 12:44:18 AM
Umm, this is not new. It is incredibly easy to double spend 0conf coins.

1. Send TX with lots of inputs and no fee
2. Send same coins with a fee

2 will win. Double spent. SatoshiDICE was vulnerable to this, so is many others

Doing what you describe doesn't always result in a double spend.  The difference is that with SatoshiDICE, if your initial wager does confirm you still get back 98.1% over the long run -- i.e., these are wagers and the house edge is 1.9%, so over time, the cost of failed attempts is only 1.9%.  So if it succeeds once every fifty times, you profit.

Now instead if you are the thief and paying for coffee, and this double spend attempt succeeds only one out of five times, the coffee shop will thank you for coming back so many times in your attempts to cheat them (as the shop still makes money overall even after losing the revenues from the one sale where the double spend attempt succeeded.)

And the only reason that double spend on SatoshiDICE worked was because the transaction was initially being ignored by the main pools (being that the amount of data was larger than normally allowed without a fee being paid, and then no fee was paid) so eventually a miner who was likely using a modification (not part of the client) which accepts a subsequent transaction where a higher fee is paid, even if it is a double-spend.  Don't expect the major pools to adopt this modification.

While a merchant can't cut the risk entirely, there are a few things that will make attempting double spends like these to be uneconomical for the thief.  SatoshiDICE modified their backend to no longer show wino/loss immediately (on 0/unconfirmed) for transactions where no fee was paid until those no-fee-paid transactions see one confirmation.   A merchant could take a similar approach and also impose a delay when no fee is paid.

As far as retep's find, I look forward to knowing what was discovered.  

2295  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: [ANN] - Trade forex (+BTC/USD), indices, stocks and commodities on: January 11, 2013, 11:43:43 PM
A user with smartphone and the ability to install an app is all that is necessary.

Or a cheap Android tablet even.

Or even simply a second computer using an HTML5 version of OTP authentication:

How to use 2-factor auth on mtgox, even without a smartphone
2296  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: ICBIT Derivatives Market (USD/BTC futures trading) - LIVE on: January 11, 2013, 10:51:30 PM
There was no entry in my log for Variation margin for BUH3 today (Jan 11, 2012).

I see the previous day's entry showed "last = 15.5750" and the current level is at about the same level so it is likely the clearing price today was the exact same as yesterday and thus, I'm presuming, that there was no need to add a log entry as there was no adjustment.

But there's no historic log of daily clearing prices that will show me today's clearing price to confirm that this is what happened.

Might it be better to simply add an entry in the log for Variation margin each day regardless of whether or not the amount was above zero?  At least then nobody would be left wondering if clearing didn't happen on those days like today.
2297  Bitcoin / Press / Re: Guidelines for Press board on: January 11, 2013, 10:29:12 PM
As always, comments and suggestions welcome!

As Bitcoin permeates through more and more of the conversations by the news media, journalists and bloggers the number of posts here is increasing dramatically.  Some of these have very little to do with Bitcoin itself.  

For instance, here's an article that didn't specifically mention Bitcoin by name but the reference to "crypto currency" followed shortly with a SR reference means this certainly was a Bitcoin mention:

Insights into Cultural Shifts from a Visit to a Hardware Store

Even though it is a great article, I don't think it is worthy of inclusion in the Press board here on the BitcoinTalk forum.  Bitcoin was simply just a mention in the article.

But yet a catalog of all the different mentions of bitcoin might be useful.  Perhaps a thread titled something like "Minor Mentions" would be more appropriate for posting links to articles and posts where Bitcoin (or a Bitcoin-related item) was mentioned but where Bitcoin was not necessarily a significant part of the article.

Here's another example:


That article was about SR only.  It did mention Bitcoin but it too was a small part of the story.

Or am I trying to fix something that isn't broke and including them in this "big net" Press board is something that works fine currently and should continue to be fine for the foreseeable future?
2298  Bitcoin / Press / Re: NEW articles in Press Forum on: January 11, 2013, 10:26:29 AM
2013-01-09 - PayPal Assault On File-Sharing Sites Makes Business Case
2299  Economy / Web Wallets / Re: - Bitcoin Block explorer & Currency Statistics on: January 11, 2013, 04:16:21 AM
I don't see any way that I can choose the language from (web) when the browser isn't wide enough for the drop-down select to show.  There is no scroll.   This will happen with nearly every mobile user attempting to use the web page.

I'ld use the Blockchain mobile app but it doesn't have the feature I was looking for ... to view the balance and transaction activity for a Bitcoin address.
2300  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [ANN] Paytunia Bitcoin wallet released today! on: January 10, 2013, 11:50:45 PM
We'd be very pleased to hear about your questions and comments !

I tried to install Paytunia on a Nexus 7 (Android 4.2.1) and it shows "Your device isn't compatible with this version."

Are there any plans to remedy this?
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