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2281  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Gambling Expansion? on: January 05, 2013, 02:33:23 AM
I do think this will ultimately lead to an increased USD/BTC price overall (obviously not immediately). Thoughts?

Those that are breaking even or winning aren't necessarily all in a rush to cash out their coins.  So after playing, those funds remain in bitcoin instead of at the exchanges looking for buyers.  This creates a fantastic opportunity for bitcoin as now the currency is distributed wider and merchants others than just those who offer more than Anonymous VPN and GPU cards will start to see more bitcoin-related commerce.

Also, for those who have won big generally bet big, meaning they might be interested in buying the higher end goods and services that bitcoin has not yet seen much demand (e.g., travel-related like perhaps hotel, and airfare) or the funds might start being used to speculate and invest (in options, futures or forex -- all of which now can be funded using bitcoins).

What none of these articles mentioned is how the many of the winnings are likely not going to be reported as income for tax purposes.  So not only are some of these Bitcoin online wagering services offer something not available in Vegas or nearly anywhere else ("provable fair") and not only do they offer higher odds of winning (house edge with SatoshiDICE is less than 2%, whereas Vegas is four percent, and sometimes 8% even -- they offer user-definable anonymity for the payouts.

The casino gaming and online gaming industry is so large that even if the bitcoin-based wagering only captured a tiny fraction of that it would provide some decent lift in the bitcoin exchange rate.
2282  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Gambling Expansion? on: January 05, 2013, 02:00:41 AM
Another thread on the article in the Press board:

2013-01-03 - Bitcoin: Making Online Gambling Legal in the U.S.?

And the two other echo chamber articles:
 - (the Ars Technical article mentioned in this thread.)
 - (
2283  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: BTC Buy - mobile phone site on: January 04, 2013, 08:57:38 PM
Hi folks,

We at BTC Buy are now offering access using a mobile site at

Site is optimized for use on the cellphones. If you have a mobile bitcoin client installed (such as blockchain), you can pay by clicking on bitcoin: link at the end of the ordering process. Hope that simplifies the matters

Awesome.  I know to keep it simple, you exclude the non-essentials.  But could the be an option to paste a GPG key for receiving the e-mails (which contain the refill card's PIN number)?
2284  Economy / Securities / Re: realy curious about something on: January 04, 2013, 06:51:37 PM
whereas if you just held onto the BTC you could possibly double it - tomorrow even (in theory)

Bitcoin mining was at one time a "safer" way to invest in bitcoin.   Your purchase of a mining rig would still have value no matter what direction the future Bitcoin exchange rate goes.  

If the exchange rate goes up:  Of course, you would have been better off buying BTCs in that scenario but at least you didn't lose anything.
If the exchange rate stays about the same: You get both the bitcoins mined and retain the resale value of the hardware at the end.
If the exchange rate drops though, you win big (compared to the investor that bought BTCs): You get the full resale value of the hardware, you get the coins you've mined, and you get a lower difficulty, presumably, as marginal miners drop out.

Another type of investment in mining is a mining bond -- a purchase of shares where you only earn the right to the proceeds of the hashes.  This also would pay off if difficulty were to either drop or to not increase much over a period of time.   For the mining operators who raised funds through investment and used those proceeds to buy ASIC hardware, it is yet to be seen how well that turned out.   Another reason investment in mining is a way to put in coins from one source and getting an amount of coins back, gradually over time -- like a combination mixing service with the potential to profit rather than a guaranteed loss using a fee-based mixing service.

Now with FPGAs and ASICs, your used hardware has limited resale value.  FPGAs had the benefit though of being much more efficient than the technology they are a substitute for (GPUs).   And ASICs have the benefit of being cheaper and being much more efficient than the technology they are a substitute for (FPGAs and GPUs).

So the whole strategy of mining and investments in mining is different going forward than how it looked just six or eight months ago.

if you buy a shit load of gold/silver it might not be safe keeping it at home

Also, each time you buy physical you pay a little over spot, and each time you sell you generally get less than spot.    When holding paper, conversion costs are pretty minimal., for instance, charges 1% to 2.5% over spot (depending on the amount purchase), but lets you cash out at spot.  They also have a small storage fee/

2285  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: (Resolved) Bitcoin/Bitinstant/Zipzap discrepancy in deposits on: January 04, 2013, 01:29:24 PM
I suppose the only cheaper way would be to use and a cash deposit at Chase Bank.  

It can fluctuate.  Lately they've been getting a decent supply of coins so like right now you could buy close to $1,000 worth of coins and not pay much over what you pay at Mt. Gox ($13.50).   When there are aggressive larger buyers, the liquidity isn't that great and it can jump to 6% or more over spot.

Do you know if they require ID to make the deposit?

Nope.  Just deposit cash into the account number provided -- the exact amount from the deposit slip though.

What is the turnaround time there?

I'm remembering something to the effect of hours [max, if deposited early in the day], to following morning.  I don't see much in the way of complaints waiting on funds to be credited, except where the person deposited the wrong amount.
2286  Economy / Gambling / Re: Looking to trade $1000 of 5dimes cash for bitcoins on: January 04, 2013, 12:26:51 PM
I currently have an abundance of cash in my 5dimes account and would like to convert some into bitcoins.  I asked customer support and they are happy to transfer funds from one account to another free of charge.  Looking for a trade near fair value for around US$1000 of funds.  I will be happy to use escrow if desired.

Let me know if interested,

You might want to try moving this post to the Gambling board.   There probably aren't enough people around this board who also have a 5dimes account.
2287  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [POLL] Should we recommend that noobs use an alternative client? on: January 04, 2013, 12:10:50 PM

Ohh .. bad timing.

Closing on 4th of Feb 2013! Withdraw all your coins!
-   <--  Facebook wallet.
2288  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: (Resolved) Bitcoin/Bitinstant/Zipzap discrepancy in deposits on: January 04, 2013, 12:01:24 PM
Before we get to it, if there is any other way/service to get Bitcoins (aside from Bitinstant, Zip Zap, or Blockchain)

To answer that question, the following factors are relevant:

 - Where are you located (country)?
 - How much are you looking to buy? [Edit: You mention the $800 range]
 - What payment methods do you have available or prefer (e.g., cash, bank transfer, etc.)
 - How soon do you need your bitcoins?
 - Is privacy important?

In the U.S.: accepts cash deposit at Chase.

Bank transfers provide the least expensive method, but they aren't necessarily the quickest.

Coinbase, available in the U.S. only, lets you instantly verify your bank account and order bitcoins, but you can't actually withdraw those coins until the bank transfer clears a couple days later. They charge just a 1% fee for buying coins.  The limitation for you might be the $100 per-day limit (the plain to raise that at some point):

Dwolla is another method to move funds cheaply from your bank to an exchange, as their fee is just $0.25 per transfer. Then from Dwolla you can purchase coins from:

 - <-- To move Dwolla funds to any of the exchanges they support.

There are cash deposit methods available in about two dozen countries including U.S., Canada (CA VirtEx), Australia (Spend Bitcoins), New Zealand (bitNZ), many in South Asia (ECurrencyZone), Russia (BTC-E, BitInstnat), and a dozen countries that BitInstant now supports.

A local trade with cash might be your quickest path:

There are a number of options:
2289  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Bitcoin/Bitinstant/Zipzap discrepancy in deposits on: January 04, 2013, 11:52:21 AM
"I change the Bitcoin price by hand nearly everyday...  

Not sure what that is about, but the exchange rate that BitInstant uses when you order coins to an address is the current rate from Mt. Gox.

Ira says, "Note that the addresses don't match the one in your email below. Still, you provided these addresses, and we completed the transactions as requested. Is it possible they belong to another wallet of yours?"  

Ok, so you are mixing terms.  If you chose to send the funds to an exchange, then you are sent dollars.   And if you are sending to an exchange you would send to an account number, not to a Bitcoin address.

So let's back up a step.

What did you use to place the order. website, or did you use something like the "Cash" purchase method from

The deposit slip will tell you how much you are to deposit and how much (dollars) that ZipZap will send.

Did you receive bitcoins or dollars?   And where did you receive these funds?

Whiere did you make this deposit?  (i.e., was this in the U.S.?)

2290  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: looking to buy $10k+ bitcoins on: January 04, 2013, 11:32:24 AM
I am a newbie with regards to bitcoins. I read an article about them the other day and I think that they can be a great investment.

There are a few risks to be concerned with.

Firstly, any investment has the risk of a drop in value.   Bitcoin is a very volatile asset with price swings in 2012 from as low as $3.87 to as high as $15.40.  Do not invest more than you are willing to lose.

When acquiring the coins from the market -- there may be strategies that will help you obtain coins at the best price. 
Some exchanges will require that you submit identity to purchase coins for that amount -- at least if you try to do it all at once.  That may introduce delays, so keep that into account when planning.

Then you have risks once you have acquired the coins.  Are you planning on hosting them with another party?  There are counterparty risks in doing that.  Or do you wish to store them securely yourself?    For a larger purchase you may wish to consider an offline, cold storage method -- possibly using Armory.

If these concepts aren't already familiar to you, there's a bit of reading ahead of you before you make your full investment.   Since there might not be a significant benefit from doing it all at once, you might wish to go through the motions with a smaller amount of funds and then commit once you know the process based on experience.
2291  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Looking to buy BTC with Paypal Gift on: January 04, 2013, 02:08:25 AM
I have a good amount of paypal I would like to turn into BTC, I own the paypal account.

VirWoX will take $50 per day so that recommendation doesn't help you much.

Any amounts larger will be problematic finding a trade due to you presumably having no trust history with paying using PayPal without any chargebacks.

Cash works well for buying bitcoins.  With a PayPal debit card you can withdraw at an ATM and buy coins with the cash through something like or BitInstant or the half dozen other cash purchase methods.

Or you could send the funds to your bank and use a bank transfer method.  Coin base will pull funds from your bank so that is one approach, if you are in the U.S.  Also in the U.S. is Dwolla, which will pull any amount into the thousands of dollars with a fee of only $0.25.  

If you really want to use PayPal, another approach is to buy something for someone using your PayPal, and then once they have the item you get your coins.  There isn't a whole lot of trade using this method but you might find a trade like this on the bitcoin-OTC marketplace.

2292  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: MT Gox alternatives? on: January 03, 2013, 11:59:21 PM
I live in the UK, so getting hold of bitcoins has been the biggest pain in my arse. Before i commit, I've looked at Has anyone ever used them? or know of anyone that has used them?

LocalBitcoins seems to be solving the problem for lots of people.

Being in the U.K., you can use Pingit to buy coins from:


You could also send cash (GPB) to Bitcon Nordic.  There are a number of options:
2293  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: [RESOLVED] Another Dwolla-> BTC-E transfer failure on BitInstant on: January 03, 2013, 11:36:44 PM
Same exact issue too. Sent customer support email. Awaiting reply! Thanks for your help..
order ID: 205e7bbe-97c4-4476-b466-625b6f6babf6

This probably isn't the right thread for these individual support reports.  Here's a better place:

Official Newbie BitInstant Support Thread (Active Customer Support)
 -  <--- Not just for Newbies
2294  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: wallet encryption on: January 03, 2013, 08:02:20 PM
Well, if you assume that the email isn't intercepted in-transit (which is a safe assumption for the vast majority of attackers), then the emailed backup is protected by your password

I forgot the condition where you have your account configured with a second password for withdrawals, then the backup is protected with that password as well.   If the attacker obtained the wallet password by malware that does keylogging, then the attacker probably has the second password as well though.
2295  Economy / Speculation / Re: Forthcoming Bitcoin article in Emirates Airlines in-flight magazine on: January 03, 2013, 06:27:15 PM
a few of them seeing its potential for moving their own money internationally cheaply, to integrate into their international trade businesses

Or help to fund ventures that will facilitate that in their region?

These nations have a lot of imported labor.   These immigrants send money home, sometimes making use of hawala, other times paying the high rates for transferring cash.

If these immigrants could acquire bitcoins easily in these regions, that would help with half of the equation.

The other half is a way for the recipients to spend the bitcoins received.

Both sides are needed, and still way below the level necessary.

Try to buy bitcoins there now.   Your options are a CashU prepaid card (bought with cash at a retail location, and redeemed through Bitcoin Nordic).   Or LocalBitcoins, one seller -- who charges quite a premium:

Then try to spend the bitcoins in Indonesia.   Perhaps the first use will be for paying the mobile phone subscription:
 -   <-- Still in limited availability beta.
2296  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Scammed by TORWallet! on: January 03, 2013, 05:53:42 PM
The TORWallet site is still up and I've asked the operator of the hosting company for status on the takedown requests.

The response indicated that there have been no reports to him [Edit: with supporting evidence] of anyone being scammed (and thus without that, no take-down action is forthcoming).  I've provided the hosting provider's email to multiple people who have inquired via PM, but I cannot say with certainty that any have submitted a report of having been scammed [Edit: or if contacted him, provided evidence].

Should anyone wish report their losses, here's the contact information:

Please email me directly,

[Edit: I would think all the evidence needed is a screenshot of the "Hot wallet exhausted" message right?]
2297  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Paper Blockchain? on: January 03, 2013, 05:28:45 PM
What if we had a machine that printed out the entire blockchain?

What good does that do you if most everyone's private keys are wiped as well?
2298  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Historical question: on: January 03, 2013, 05:07:50 PM
Personally I found the starting point a 50 BTC block reward (as opposed to say 64) to be more "strange" - am guessing the only reason for this particular number was to try and "appeal" to non-nerds (not that there probably are any that would be mining BTC).

Well, they outnumber us by about an order of magnitude so preferring 50 and 25 versus 64 and 32 is obvious.

Like all aspects of Bitcoins initial design, it was decided by Satoshi.

Quote from: satoshi
I wanted something that would be not too low if it was very popular and not too high if it wasn't.

There are some people who think that Facebook ($FB) is a better stock than Alcoa ($AA) because a share of Facebook trades at $25 versus $9 for Alcoa.  These same people don't generally trade themselves so a basic understanding of stock prices isn't necessary for them. 

I personally didn't appreciate this until Bitcoin hit parity and suddenly instead of Bitcoin being these fake bits it was now "worth more than a dollar, so it must be somehow legit".   

The benefit of this decision helped bitcoin (in the court of public opinion) when it was critically needed.    What many sites are doing is displaying the amount of bitcoins in one field and right next to it is that amount's value in dollars.    This will ease the concern when we start seeing things priced in mBTCs -- where at one site you are paying 130 millibits for an item and at the next one the price is listed as 0.137 BTC.

2299  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Reversible Payments on: January 03, 2013, 02:14:42 PM
So how exactly is a MoneyPak reversible?  Huh

From another thread:

1.) You buy a MoneyPak at the store.  Smile for the camera.
2.) You send the MoneyPak to me along with the receipt, date and amount.  I then use the MoneyPak code to load my debit card. It works so I send to you bitcoins.
3.) You make an attempt to load your debit card with the code that you know has already been redeemed.  It fails.  You call Green Dot and claim you couldn't redeem the code.
4.) I try to use my debit card and it has no funds.  I check online, and the funds are gone.  I call Green Dot.  They ask me to provide the receipt where I bought the MoneyPak.  Hm ... I don't live anywhere near the address.  Was I traveling?  Nope.  I have to explain I bought the code online.

Because Green Dot specifically says the card is for the purpose of loading funds into your own reloadable debit card, they side with the customer who paid at the store and then was not able to load his card.
2300  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Looking to accept USD and transfer to Bitcoin on: January 03, 2013, 02:40:54 AM
the biggest thing I can think of would be the conversion process and what possible regulations there are for accepting USD for bitcoins.

I can't see any legal reason a payment processor couldn't pay out in bitcoins.  If there is the same AML/KYC followed as when paying out with a bank payment, then there shouldn't be any reason bitcoins couldn't be paid out instead.

More likely what would happen is that the merchants attracted to this might be the ones who have a higher risk of seeing chargebacks.  It may seem that there would be little difference between a merchant processor paying out for the charges via an ACH and then the merchant immediately sweeping those funds to a bitcoin exchange versus the merchant processor directly paying out for the charges in bitcoin.  Probably a difference is that when simply tossing the proceeds over to the the bank account there is less responsibility for the merchant processor (e.g., doesn't need to register as a money transmitter maybe?)

For the same reason, that's probably why there are no methods to receive other digital currency methods like Liberty Reserve either.

One other possibility is using LiqPay as a credit card merchant processor.  VirWoX and BTC-E, for instance, both use it in exchange for hard money. 

And, from another thread:

There are cash payment methods that might be a good middle ground.  UKash vouchers and CashU cards are sold in much of the world.  Thus if you have a CashU account, you can receive funds from other CashU users who have funded their accounts using cash (Ukash, CashU card, etc.) just like PayPal's person-to-person payments works.

You can then use those CashU funds to purchase bitcoins if you want (or withdraw to your bank.)


Also LiqPay is another method and they do accept credit card.   LiqPay then apparently can be used with OKPay, and then used for purchase of bitcoins.
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