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661  Economy / Goods / Re: NEFT Vodka and Bitcoin on: July 01, 2013, 10:03:23 PM
Anyone know, is it possible to get this in the USA?

Coming soon to a BevMo near you (at least that's what the importer at Bitcoin 2013 was saying).

Neft is registered as a Liquor brand with the State of NY:
 - http://www.sla.ny.gov/system/files/registeredbrandsbyname_liquor-060113.pdf
662  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: What's to stop fully licenced bitcoin exchanges from trading fiat pairs? on: July 01, 2013, 09:58:53 PM
I was wondering less about brokerages and more about actual fiat exchanges

Most every U.S. state has regulations for currency exchangers (e.g., converting USD to EUR, or other currency).
663  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: State of the Real Bitcoin Economy on: July 01, 2013, 08:39:45 PM
So, what do you guys think is the way forward?

Bitcoin was used in online gaming but no service really had been "killing it".  Then on April, 17th 2012, fireduck realized he was on to something.  His new gambling site, 1209k was attracting more users than he felt comfortable handling so he sold the service which the new owner rebranded as SatoshiDICE and in a couple weeks the blockchain transaction chart started to hockey stick.

Within 30 days a "killer app" (online gambling seeing its "drop" hit millions of dollars worth each month) went from "could happen" to "happening before our very eyes".

We know there are dozens of "killer apps".   The remittance industry is another one.  Even if just the hawalders figured out the opportunity that Bitcoin provides them with, there's a huge amount of Bitcoin transactions that would result.  Hawalders transfer money in which there is required trust between the intermediaries.   Bitcoin disintermediates hawala -- breaking it down into there being simply two independent exchange transactions (i.e., bitcoins bought in one location, and bitcoins exchanged back to fiat in another).

Personally, I think the place Bitcoin will have the largest impact is with cyber-equities markets.  This is currently the category known as "equity crowdfunding" but that is a category that today essentially does not exist due to regulatory friction.   The JOBS act was passed more than a year ago and the SEC still is at least a half year away from finishing the rulemaking they are tasked with.  Even then, what is available today on BitFunder, Cryptostocks, Picostocks, (or funds like Havelock offers) will not qualify for use in the U.S. due to various reasons, including how investment in those vehicles for speculation can be made anonymously -- and thus there is no method for the authorities to enforce tax laws.

But look at ASICMINER, which is possibly the most highly valued company ever to go the "equity crowdfunding" route.  When there are more and more successes in companies who raised capital through these cyber-equities markets I expect that to be the catalyst for an unprecedented level of transaction activity for bitcoins.
664  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: State of the Real Bitcoin Economy on: July 01, 2013, 08:05:55 PM
It's too useful as a store of value, and that utility will inevitably drive it into more people's hands, driving up the price, stabilizing the price with larger volume, boosting mining incentive to make the system more secure, and increasing development and infrastructural investment in a virtuous cycle.

I couldn't disagree more.

The reason bitcoin is valued in double digits currently is due to speculation that there will be greater demand for holding coins in the future and thus the current exchange rate is justified or undervalued even.

But what causes this demand to hold coins?   

Simply as a store of value?  Certainly, those who bought in early April and still hold those coins don't think bitcoin is such a great store of value.   There are a number of stores of value with less risk than Bitcoin at these exchange rates.

When Bitcoin is used as a medium of exchange that creates demand for coins.  You can't send a Bitcoin payment without first acquiring those coins.  If a business receives coins as revenue and then will be using bitcoins in the future for purchasing goods and services, or paying out dividends, then the merchant is likely to hold a balance of coins for the short duration between when the revenue transaction occurred and when the spending will occur.     Holding the coins for that short amount of time, though, decreases the quantity available for sale at the exchanges and, in aggregate, bitcoin gaining traction as a currency causes the exchange rate to rise.

It doesn't matter where the demand for bitcoins comes from ...   whether it be as a means of exchange, remittance payments, speculation (hoarding), forex trading, etc., .... any coin that doesn't end up being sold means less resistance to a rising exchange rate.

The reason traction in retail and e-commerce is seen as so important by many is because of what it will do to the exchange rate if it happens.   If it happens, a BTC/USD of $10,000 is not crazy talk.  Without it, a BTC/USD of $2 might be the more fair valuation.

665  Local / India / Re: Mt Gox Gets a MSB License on: July 01, 2013, 09:53:21 AM

Doh!

Mt Gox registered with FinCEN as a money service business (MSB) that serves as a money transmitter.

They did not "get a license".

There is no such thing as an MSB license.

There are some states that require Money Transmitters to be licensed.   Mt. Gox has not received any money transmiter licenses yet, apparently, and it isn't known if they'll even do that (it is very expensive to do).
666  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Read this before you invest with icbit on: July 01, 2013, 09:46:52 AM
in other words influences that are not anything to do with bitcoin

There definitely are trades occurring due to forced margin selling, and if there aren't enough contracts bid that selling will go low, below current spot even if that is still within the trading range.

But you can't fault ICBIT.se for there not being sufficient bids.  It's just the result of a long, protracted slide in which many traders on the long side who were margined are basically just adding more funds to hang on and not buying a greater position, regardless of the price.

It shouldn't be surprising that there isn't a huge level of liquidity in the trading of futures contracts on an exchange with properties unlike any other (specifically, the counterparty risk where your position can get closed even without you getting a margin call due to the losses of others).

There is much risk when you combine leverage with volatility, so if there's more that could be done it would be to educate traders on those risks. 
667  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Anyway to block miners in China? on: July 01, 2013, 05:25:04 AM
Then no cryptocurrency will ever be successful.

It's an evolutionary process. Bitcoin will die and a better cryptocurrency will be created.

OK, now it's apparent this was just trolling.
668  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Anyway to block miners in China? on: July 01, 2013, 05:22:53 AM
As the diffculty increases, less individuals get involved in Bitcoin mining and it turns into a corporate venture.

I remember when CPU miners were whining that GPUs meant the end of bitcoin due to the "home user" being shut out of mining.  

Remember one thing.  Miners work for those who buy the bitcoins.   The least efficient workers (i.e., power-hungy GPU miners) are being displaced with more efficient workers (ASICs).

This was telegraphed well in advance, and getting to this point actually took much longer than many of us expected.  But progress from here (i.e, difficulty continues shooting up) is right on cue:



If you are still GPU mining on bitcoin, please do not be deluded into thinking this is something that will blow over.  If you haven't done so already, prepare to shut down your GPU rigs -- and the sooner the better.

As far as blocking mined blocks based on geographic area, Bitcoin was architected to protect against this type of corruption.  Miners relay their mined blocks to their peers, so every peer would need to reject an IP range.   That would never happen.
669  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Read this before you invest with icbit on: July 01, 2013, 01:58:36 AM
Today with spot at $100 or so a reasonable premium might be, very roughly, $60 to $80. If it is much out of that range it is a warning that something needs to be investigated. If it is below zero than it is much more than a warning.

Or a lack of buyers at that price.   It is an open market.  You are free to put in a BUY order for contracts at that price.
670  Bitcoin / Alternative clients / Re: Does such a thing even exist?! on: July 01, 2013, 01:01:49 AM
Blockchain.info seems to have some of this functionality, but I'm not too sure I would trust it too much, and I'm not sure I can pick the originating address for sending bitcoin.

You can from the Web client.  You choose "custom" when sending.

Also, the Mycelium Bitcoin Wallet client (Android) provides an easy method for importing (scanning) a private key.  (It is new, beta software yet and was just recently made available so use care such as only dealing with paper keys with small amounts, for now.):
 - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mycelium.wallet
671  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: What's to stop fully licenced bitcoin exchanges from trading fiat pairs? on: July 01, 2013, 12:56:22 AM
I was referring to this case. Out of interest, what regulator and regulations are there for allowing the exchange of fiat currencies?

From the FinCEN guidance:

Quote
Dealers in Foreign Exchange

A person must exchange the currency of two or more countries to be considered a dealer in foreign exchange.19 Virtual currency does not meet the criteria to be considered "currency" under the BSA, because it is not legal tender. Therefore, a person who accepts real currency in exchange for virtual currency, or vice versa, is not a dealer in foreign exchange under FinCEN's regulations.
- http://fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html


So from that is seems reasonable that one could, from the U.S., accept EUR in exchange for BTC (and vice-versa) and not be considered a dealer in foreign exchange.    There might still be the requirement to register as an MSB, but not as a "dealer of foreign exchange".    Now if you try to go USD --> BTC, then those BTC --> EUR, then that effectively is a USD --> EUR trade and those transactions might cause you to be considered a dealer in foreign exchange.

As far as what regulators exists for a forex brokerage?  Here's a snippet from a forex brokerage:

Quote
In American the main Forex regulatory commissions are the National Futures Association (NFA), Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), and the Commodities and Futures Trading Commission (CFTC). These bodies regulate Forex brokers in the US and ensure that only registered brokers are able to operate in the country, and that transparency in all transactions are maintained.
- http://www.etoro.com/education/american-forex-regulation.aspx
672  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: how to get mtgox USD into CampBX? on: July 01, 2013, 12:26:22 AM
Thanks for the replies, however I am still confused.  The best way for my situation is to eat the $7 per coin loss to move the funds into my checking account via dwolla?

Also, if all you want is an ACH transfer to your bank account, you can sell your re-acquired coins at a better rate by using Coinbase.  The funds are then sent to your bank account in the same manner (ACH) as Dwolla would do.
673  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: how to get mtgox USD into CampBX? on: July 01, 2013, 12:17:30 AM
Thanks for the replies, however I am still confused.  The best way for my situation is to eat the $7 per coin loss to move the funds into my checking account via dwolla?

If you need to transfer the funds NOW, then yes, unfortunately -- Camp BX is the only other exchange in which bitcoins can be sold for Dwolla.  And yes, there is about a $7 difference between the cost for you to buy them at Mt. Gox and then sell those coins at Camp BX (not even including the loss to exchange fees).

If you trust that Mt. Gox will resume with a cash-out method for USDs (including Dwolla, or maybe bank wire transfer even), you might be better off leaving the funds at Mt. Gox until they resume that capability.
674  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: List of court cases, complaints, regulatory actions, etc. on: July 01, 2013, 12:09:29 AM
No, this doesnt belong here and is wrong, too.

I'm not sure why you'ld claim that a formal, public response by an agency of the German federal government does not belong in this thread.
675  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: List of court cases, complaints, regulatory actions, etc. on: July 01, 2013, 12:06:01 AM
Vitalik Buterin published a great summary of regulatory actions for 2013 to-date:
 - http://bitcoinmagazine.com/regulatory-responses-to-bitcoin-2013-edition
676  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: List of court cases, complaints, regulatory actions, etc. on: July 01, 2013, 12:04:51 AM
Search and Seizure Warrant, by U.S. District Court (Middle District, TN)
September 13, 2012
Location: Franklin, TN, USA

An update to this:

Quote
Michael Mancil Brown was indicted on extortion and wire fraud charges over Mitt Romney’s tax returns.


 - http://www.coindesk.com/man-charged-after-demanding-bitcoin-for-mitt-romney-tax-returns
 - http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2013/06/27/indictment-in-bitcoin-bidding-scheme-for-mitt-romneys-tax-returns
677  Bitcoin / Press / Re: POST FORMAT: YYYY-MM-DD - SITE - HEADLINE on: June 30, 2013, 07:49:49 PM
Please use the title formatting described when posting new links here. Adapt if needed, use your own judgement. Please always include date and source.

Maybe someone can sticky this, I don't think people read the posting guidelines...

The suggested format shouldn't have a hyphen between DATE and SITE.

i.e., should be:

YYYY-MM-DD SITE - HEADLINE

example
  2013-06-30 Forbes.com - Awesome Bitcoin Article


And for those wondering why [having date as YYYY-MM-DD] is a big deal, ... if the posts are formatted this way, then a link can be used to see new articles sorted chronologically:
 - http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=77.0;sort=first_post;desc

678  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-06-30 p2pfoundation: How the Bitcoin 1% manipulate the currency, deceive... on: June 30, 2013, 07:42:27 PM
"Account" (BTC-Adress) =/ "Owner"

Also, lots of early coins didnt move because they are lost.

This paper cites lots of old and even back then questionworthy statements. I would give much credit to them.

With many people (foolishly) storing their bitcoins at exchanges rather than locally in their own wallets, the exchanges hold a large number of coins.   And even if those coins are flip flopping back and forth in trades to and from dollars, until they are withdrawn they don't show up in the blockchain.      And since all sane exchanges employ cold storage mechanisms, those coins will not move because withdrawal requests are served using coins recently received in the hot wallets.

But overall, I'ld agree that a very small subset of the population hold a relatively huge number of coins, and if bitcoin continues its ascent these people will benefit from those coins having insane gains.   That's just one of those things though, happens all around -- like those owning Apple stock over the past half decade, or gold versus a decade ago, etc.
679  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Any recent word from Bill Gates? on: June 30, 2013, 07:22:03 PM
If the billionaires were interested in bitcoins, They would become the elite all over again.

Not really.

The wealthy make money not from just having wealth but by having a stake in the system that generates wealth.   The wealthy don't own dollars, ... they own shares of the bank which makes money from charging overdraft fees, bank maintenance fees, earning interest on loans, payment card merchant fees, etc.  

There might be an increase in wealth from holding bitcoin as a store of value, but the Bitcoin ecosystem itself doesn't provide such a lucrative, parasitic opportunity for extracting fees from those transacting in bitcoins.   The payment network has no concept of overdraft fees.  There's no bank necessary even, if you are comfortable securing your client (e.g., Bitcoin-Qt) locally.

So even if billionaires speculate on bitcoins that doesn't give them the gains like Buffet's sweet deal when he invested $5B in preferred stock of JP Morgan (2008).

Bitcoin is not part of the old boy's club and instead competes against that.
680  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Caution about icbit on: June 30, 2013, 07:08:15 PM
But there is zero chance of a September contract trading below $100, below today's spot, unless there is some severe manipulation going on.

Price discovery, ... too, is a bitch.
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