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41  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Need short-term and long-term advice... on: June 12, 2011, 02:25:54 PM
The change in difficulty is a HUGE unknown variable in ROI calculations...as is the value of the bitcoin itself.

Would I advise somebody to drop $100k on a mining setup? Only if it's clear they have the ability to move $100k worth of used computers if they needed to.

It would feel the true opportunity in bitcoins is meta....an exchange, a service to facilitate purchasing of goods from sites that don't accept bitcoins, etc. It "feels" like this is an emerging market with many opportunities...but I feel like mining is small thinking, in terms of generating significant recurring revenue.

Great points. What would an example of BIGGER thinking, in terms of generating significant recurring revenue using bitcoin as a platform or utilizing it another way?
42  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: facebook approach to increase btc value on: June 12, 2011, 01:43:38 PM
This should be pretty interesting. I'll bite.
43  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Need short-term and long-term advice... on: June 12, 2011, 01:28:43 PM
Here's an idea, figure out something you can profitably pay people in bitcoins to do, that can be done just sitting at a computer. You can't have a real economy without jobs, and right now about the only viable 'job' that pays in bitcoins is making bitcoins. It would have to be piecework because paying hourly would create an unnecessary administrative burden.

There are all kinds of bored-ass people sitting at computers who might be happy to e.g. proofread OCR, categorize images or write/summarize articles for money. Some are bored enough to do some of that for free but eventually anyone gets tired of that, look at how the Wikipedia model frustrates a lot of productive people into leaving. Whatever they make, even if they don't make a lot starting out as is the nature of piecework, can potentially increase in buying power if the price of bitcoins goes up. Additionally, the fact that all those people have bitcoins to spend furthers the goal of widespread use. You ensure quality by cross checking results and rewarding high accuracy/writing quality with extra bonuses.

Good points and good thinking. What about on the e-commerce end?
44  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Should I buy a bunch of rigs? on: June 12, 2011, 01:25:17 PM
Sup peeps. Think I should just go out and buy parts to build like 30 rigs and set em up with custom cooling in a warehouse? I got the capital. Watcha think?

This guy seems to like the idea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLt8Se3vVNg&feature=related

Bitcoin is based on a solid algorithm, but is driven by a community that seems to seriously lack objectivness, probably because of vested interest into ever increasing exchange rates. I am not sure if they are not going to crash the whole thing out of blind and zealous faith

If I were you I would wait and see if the whole Bitcoin ecosystem does not collapse entirely in the coming days.

Maybe you can start by building one rig, and convince yourself that the profit is worth the trouble.
You should also make the experience of one or two difficulty increases, and factor the outcome into you profitability model.
In bitcoin denomination, you profit is going to decrease exponentially over time, so you will have to rely on a permanent and proportionnal (therefore exponential) increase of the BTC/USD exchange rate if you want to have a stable income in your native currency.

Now if you have alternate business models for your hardware, like creating a GPGPU cloud service or if you would like to help cancer research by running folding@home, then it's a different story.

Your right. Thought it seems that in the short run (say 1 year) looks very confident and seeing the sudden mainstream exposure may be a little shaky but over all probably beneficial in my mind, by simply exposing the currency to people and drawing more interest. So it seems your investment in the best situation could be returned in 8 - 10 weeks and rougher situation-say, 6-9 months?
45  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Newbie restrictions (Please discuss forum policy here.) on: June 12, 2011, 12:57:10 PM
I really don't mind it much. One day I will be free to roam the like a free range chicken.
46  Other / Beginners & Help / Should I buy a bunch of rigs? on: June 12, 2011, 12:53:05 PM
Sup peeps. Think I should just go out and buy parts to build like 30 rigs and set em up with custom cooling in a warehouse? I got the capital. Watcha think?

This guy seems to like the idea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLt8Se3vVNg&feature=related
47  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: New policy working! 15 Dollars! on: June 12, 2011, 12:44:52 PM
I seriously doubt a few spammers on these boards had anything to do with pricing...

Agreed. Doesn't really make sense.
48  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Tax on alternate currencies on: June 12, 2011, 12:42:54 PM
Just sweep it all under the rug. What "they" don't know won't hurt them. Smiley
49  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Newbie restrictions (Please discuss forum policy here.) on: June 12, 2011, 12:39:45 PM
I like it. Do it.
50  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: My bitcoins are lost on: June 12, 2011, 12:37:13 PM
I sent bitcoins from deepbit to my mybitcoin.com account address. However i did not receive it. Is there something wrong.
i sent 1 Bitcoins

Any update on the issue?
51  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Newbie restrictions (Please discuss forum policy here.) on: June 12, 2011, 12:34:45 PM
Pretty obvious this promotes trolling. Small price I guess but avoidable in my opinion.
52  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Newbie restrictions (Please discuss forum policy here.) on: June 12, 2011, 12:31:15 PM
Suggestion:

What about creating sub forums in the newbie section

A newbie mining sub-forum would catch all the "what PSU do i buy" posts

A newbie> merchant forum to help new merchants

etc.



This sounds like a decent idea. Either way, I'll make 50 at some point. Smiley
53  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Newbie restrictions (Please discuss forum policy here.) on: June 12, 2011, 12:29:40 PM
I feel like a rat in a cage lol. I'm not hating thought. The community seems pretty cool. Worth it.
54  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Bitcoin Casino Coming Soon! (Need someone who can make games of chance) on: June 12, 2011, 12:28:39 PM
good luck Smiley
55  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: New bitcoin client introduced. on: June 12, 2011, 12:23:51 PM
sounds pointless
56  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Newbie restrictions (Please discuss forum policy here.) on: June 12, 2011, 12:20:01 PM
I don't get this at all.
57  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Need short-term and long-term advice... on: June 12, 2011, 10:35:55 AM
"Who said I was going to rely on bitcoins for my personal income?"

If you're not going to use them profitably then don't waste your time and money.  If you are going to use them profitably then that is going to wind up being a personal income yeah?  Just don't rely on them as a lifeline to keep you fed and housed.

Well, the point I stressed multiple times above is that we are working on several different things. Not just bitcoin. Bitcoin will be nice for the moment to make some extra cash while mining is worthwhile. That's why I was asking for brain droppings on anything the community could user right now.

If I wanted to, 100 grand could be used to pick up about 44 rigs capable of about 65 gh/s and and gross between 1k-2k a day if the value is floating between 10-20 USD but I doubt I would be comfortable doing that. I've seen some vids on youtube with similar set ups but the market is all over the place right now. Either way, of course I would use it profitably. Otherwise, I wouldn't waste my time.
58  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Need short-term and long-term advice... on: June 12, 2011, 10:07:07 AM
Short and long term advise. 

Stay the hell out of those College Courses they are a waste of money, don't rely on Bitcoins for your personal income by borrowing so much money, and buy Silver instead of Gold.  As Silver corrects to its historical 1/16th ratio to Gold it will skyrocket in price.  You'll see much more gain in Silver vs. Gold.

lol Thanks. I have my reasons for taking some classes. I'm self taught just like every other programmer out there and have reviewed many of the courses and I know I'm not learning anything. Either way, my reasons are a bit personal so I'm not getting into that.

Who said I was going to rely on bitcoins for my personal income?
59  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Need short-term and long-term advice... on: June 12, 2011, 07:57:41 AM
Well the important thing to remember is that generating bitcoins will get more difficult to mine over time so mining bitcoins is only a short-term business. However, I am not sure how that will work out over the long-term especially if the price of bitcoins goes up in value year over year.

What you need to do is track all your costs like a hawk (ie. meter the electricity usage by the rig). You also need to live in a location that has cheap electricity + cold climate. So I would suggest some place where it snows. Try to go as high altitude as possible, far north or south. If possible, place your rigs outside to reduce cooling costs.

You want to run your rigs 24/7/365. Forget the college class- you won't have the time especially if your friend is going to be investing 100k.

When you generate BTC, don't just sell it ASAP on the markets, price it high so you get maximum return.

Once again, the important thing is to track your costs, including depreciation of your equipment. Saying, "I paid 7$ for electricity per bitcoin and sold the bitcoin for 8$ and made a 1$ profit" is not going to cut it.

As far as where to invest the profit from the business I'd go for physical silver/gold and stocks, primarily dividend stocks.


Good advice. Yes, we've considered the equipment maint. and my partner will be building custom cooling mechanisms for the rigs. We've also calculated the electricity usage of each rig so we have a decent formula for mining which we obviously just update with current bitcoin values and up to date difficulty factors.

Also, I'm not just talking mining and buying bitcoins. Out of the 3 of us, 1 is a good programmer/developer, I am basically half programmer and half business developer and the other is a great business guy and awesome promoter to the best levels of just about any business. So we have a solid group and I am also thinking to bring aboard my cousin who is an advanced forex guy. So I guess what I am getting at is that we're also thinking outside the realm of just mining and investing into coins, but also considering our resources, we can do many things and already have some nice ideas. So any additional ideas maybe for a commerce site you guys would like to see developed around bitcoin users? (ie. auctions, classifieds, etc).
60  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Need short-term and long-term advice... on: June 12, 2011, 07:40:53 AM
I know nothing of mining, but i am blessed with the ability to be allowed to communicate with the big kids so i'll post your inquiry in the mining section right now and you can check for feedback there.

edit:

here you go - http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=15642.0

Thanks bud
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