Bitcoin Forum
February 02, 2023, 09:33:00 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 24.0.1 [Torrent]
 
  Home Help Search Login Register More  
  Show Posts
Pages: [1]
1  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: FACTS about Multipools and why you shouldn't mine on them on: March 24, 2014, 03:39:54 PM

Feel free to disprove every point I make with facts... instead of simply saying "not true". Oh wait.. you can't.

How about you feel free to prove every point you have made with facts?  You can't just saying something is a fact and suddenly its a fact.  How about backing up your statements with evidence?  You have some valid points, but you are taking things out of context too.

Quote
They mine at low diff with, say 10Gh when the usual net hashrate for the coins they mine is 10 times less, and they leave as soon as the difficulty increases, making the honest miners work at diff the multipool should be working at, stealing their income.

This is true, multipools do mine coins at times that are lower diff.  But do you know why those coins are lower diff?  its the fact that miners are on the multipools to begin with and not on single coins.  If everybody were mining single coins, then each coins network hashrate ON AVERAGE would not be drastically different.  Multipools cause the network hashrates to spike high, but they also cause the hashrates to spike lower than they would if multipools did not exist.  This was obviously a bigger problem for coins before coins started adjusting difficulty every block - like your own SpainCoin.  I will agree it can be a problem for coins that do not adjust their difficulty every block when multipools could cause a very low diff coin to skyrocket in diff and then abandon it for days.   There are existing solutions to this problem though and they are already implemented in many coins.

Quote
By doing that they get A LOT MORE COINS than they'd normally deserve. Do they pay you 10x what you'd expect to earn??? because that's what they're earning with your hashpower. YOU'RE BEING SCAMMED.

You can't prove that a pool is scamming anybody, and nobody can prove that they are not either.  The same could be said for any other single coin pool as well.  I don't care how transparent a pool claims to be, there are ways for ANY pool to skim profits.    You are right though, multipools will likely end up with more coins than a single coin pool due to taking advantage of the lower difficulty.  This is already minimized by coins adjusting their difficulty every block however.

Quote
They also game the system by mining random reward coins (like lotto, luckycoin, dogecoin until recently..) ONLY when they have high reward blocks, thus leaving honest miners to mine the crappy blocks, again STEALING from them. (Dogecoin was forced to hardfork recently to set a fixed reward in order to fix this).

Sure, perhaps.  I certainly know of this exploit, but I have yet to see anybody prove that a multipool is gaming the coins in this way.  Even if they are, how can you blame them?  Multipools are there to try and earn their miners the most amount of money they can by taking advantage of each coins properties.  If you were a customer of bank X, but bank Y advertised that their ABM / ATM would always give you 10x the cash you requested if you withdrew it at precisely 10:14AM on a Saturday that you wouldn't take advantage of this fact?  Do you think your local restaurant that serves wings for 1/2 price but only on a Wednesday night gets mad that they sell 90% of their wings Wednesday nights and that nobody comes on the more expensive nights?  Sorry, but this point is just a gaping hole in the coins reward system.  You can't blame anybody for taking advantage of it.

Quote
They KILL COINS by making their blockchains stuck by raising difficulty and leaving as soon as it rises, making them spend HOURS to solve blocks at the diff the multipool should be working at. They also dump all they mine making the coins' value in exchanges plummet.

You have 2 points here that are completely different:
  • Killing coins due to increased difficulty - you already said this in your first point.  Difficulty adjustments every block are already defending against this.  That's not good enough for you?  Come up with a new algorithm to defend against it then.  Don't just cry foul because you can't defend against it.  
  • Yes, they do dump all mined coins.  Do you honestly think this is different from miners on single coin pools in any kind of statistically significant way?  Do you really think that people want to hold onto ToiletCoin, SyrupCoin, or whatever the shit coin of the day is?  Why would they?  The only reason they are mining those coins is because they know its going to be another pump and dump.  Why would they think its going to be anything but this?  Almost all of these shitcoin "devs" don't even believe in their coin enough to put their real name on them so why would anybody else believe in it?  The "devs" are just anonymous people on the internet. You want people to hold your coins?  Give them a reason to, make them actually valuable in some way.  I am not talking about value vs. BTC or any other coin by the way.  Make your coin useful in some fashion and people will hold them instead of just dumping them for something that actually is useful to them like BTC.


At any rate, I think you are missing the whole point of a multipool.  The whole point is to "take advantage of" (another word for this is 'exploit' by the way) the highest profit periods of a coin.  That is going to involve a calculation of earning X coins over period Y that will sell for Z BTC.  Let me spell it out real clear.  Multipools do not care at all about the long term goals of any coin.  If you do not like them, as a coin dev, you are going to have to come up with your own solution to it.  Its your coin, so you can change it in any way you want.  You don't just need to sit around waiting for somebody else to find a solution and then copy/paste the code into your coin.  Coming on a forum and crying foul and claiming that the multipools are scamming people without having any evidence is not going to convince anybody of your "facts".
2  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [PRE-ANN][JNY] JennyCoin Launching 04/04/2014 on: March 24, 2014, 12:10:56 AM
For the price of a dime I can always turn to you
3  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Mining (Altcoins) / Re: [Idea] How to approach a MultiAlgo miner on: March 22, 2014, 04:58:23 PM
sgminer appears to already be heading in this direction.  It has some of the foot work done already.  Namely, it supports BOTH scrypt and scrypt-N, at least in the latest git repo.  I don't think the latest release supports it.  Though it requires load time parameters to be set to specify which algorithm you wish to use, and in scrypt-N's case, that the current nfactor should be.  I don't think there is any sha3/keccak support or any other algorithm in there yet, but clearly they see value in other algorithms.

As much as I want to say this makes sense to be done... the reality is its really only going to benefit the multipools.  The people actually developing coins and running pools for those coins etc will not have any interest at all in this.  Multipools in general are not liked by coin devs.  You could make an argument that somebody could make a coin that changes algorithm frequently if this were supported... but why would anybody really want to do that.  Otherwise the only benefit to be had by individual coins is changing n-factor in scrypt-N during runtime.

While I'm not going to claim to know any of these pieces of software inside and out, I have a pretty basic understanding of it all.

In my view, this is what would need to happen:

  • stratum-mining
    • stratum protocol needs to be modify to allow it to carry extra configuration parameters regarding the jobs its handing out.  IE. hash algorithm, and any extra associated parameters with each algorithm.  This should be done in an extensible way that would allow new hashing algorithms to be added without the need to modify the protocol again if a new hash algorithm starts being used.  The real bonus of this in my opinion... it will pave the way for an scrypt-N coin to be able to change the n-factor on the fly instead of having pre-determined points in times that the nfactor changes and instead do something like base it on current network difficulty.
  • sgminer/cgminer/whateverminer
    • is going to need some pretty fundamental changes.  Currently setting the algorithm and parameters is done entirely at load time.  This would need to be redone to restart the GPU threads with different algorithms during runtime.
    • Will also need to be modified to allow specifying configuration parameters for each hashing algorithm.  IE. on scrypt i want to use engine clock X, TC Y, Intensity Z, but on scrypt-N i want blah blah blah

None of this is really a big deal, with exception of the first point for the miners... that could be a bit of a challenge.  Like I said though, I don't know the code inside and out, it might be alot easier than I'd expect.
4  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Pools (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] profit switching auto-exchanging pool - www.middlecoin.com on: February 06, 2014, 05:02:09 AM
Thanks again for developing this site :] It's by far my favorite for stats, as it provides data (like BTC/hr and BTC/MH/day) that I used to have to calculate manually.

Thanks! glad you are liking it Smiley

Just as a bit of fair warning, there is a bit of a correction to BTC/MH & BTC/hr coming.

both of them only use the ACCEPTED hashrate in the calculation when it really should be accepted + rejected.  It does skew the numbers a bit.

I know of at least one other middlecoin stat site that calculates it the same way I currently am, so don't be surprised if suddenly my site starts showing your rates lower than another one you might use.
5  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Pools (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] profit switching auto-exchanging pool - www.middlecoin.com on: February 06, 2014, 04:55:40 AM
this is a great site, I've been using it for a while now.  one thing I was wondering, could you do a USD total under the payouts table very easily?  great work.

Something on the enhancement list already is providing exactly what you are asking for - a total summary / average of the payouts table.

I am also planning to add weekly summary / averages for likely the previous 4 weeks and then monthly beyond that, with the option to expand those summaries with more detail.

I can only imagine the payout table for somebody that has been on middlecoin for say 3+ moths at this point must look pretty crazy.

Anyhow, I'll try and post an update here when that has been added.  Doing the total summary / average at least is actually pretty easy and is pretty close to the top of the enhancement list.
6  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Pools (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] profit switching auto-exchanging pool - www.middlecoin.com on: February 06, 2014, 04:00:24 AM
Just wanted to take a few minutes to officially introduce my middlecoin stats website.

Some of you may have seen it already before, I know I've seen it linked at least once here before.  The official link to the site has moved now to http://middlecoin.info .  The site was previously operating on http://mc.vegr.com, but after being asked for the link to it more than enough times, I decided it was time to move away from recycling an old domain and registered something that should be easy to remember.

Its certainly not perfect, but hopefully many of you will find the site useful, it is mostly a pet project that I started simply for my own purposes but thought others would find it useful and decided to share.

I work on it as time permits, but any feature requests I am very happy to add to the list and I will do my best to implement.

I've mostly been a lurker of the bitcointalk forums, but feel free to send me any feedback or hate mail here.  Otherwise, you can also find me as Syde on freenode in #middlecoin.
Pages: [1]
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!