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81  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Biggest Pyramid Scheme Ever Devised! on: July 06, 2011, 07:32:08 PM
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(I wrote a few lines, then decided I won't bother and deleted them)



Lots of winners in this thread. Carry on.
82  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: The "steady supply of coins = deflation" argument flaw on: July 06, 2011, 04:03:46 PM

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Bottom line:  BTCs are new.  Standard models of analysis that are commonly used for stocks, bonds, commodities, futures and options don't necessarily apply.

Why not? Like all other markets, BTC market is driven by greed and fear. Nothing else, nothing more.




Its human behavior. If anyone thinks otherwise it's pure ignorance.
83  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: should I sell and re-buy? on: July 05, 2011, 08:09:31 PM
Well because btcguild was down I was banking on some people being unable to sell and when it came back online the price going down a little bit. Anyway long story short I bought back at £7 which as low as the price has gone today on britcoin. Doubt it will go seriously below £7 so pretty pleased. Expecting it to rebound tomorrow. So far it looks like I was right to sell and buy back.

I reckon everyone is going to start buying now ... opinions?

Why you reckon that? Because you jumped back in? Something fundamentally or technically changed since you sold and re-bought? I hope you can come up with a better plan for the future. I hate to see you bail at 6.50 and rebuy 6.00 on the same day just because you reckon everyone will start buying the moment you bought. Does this make sense?
84  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: More difficulty = higher BTC price is an urban legend on: July 05, 2011, 07:02:04 PM
I can't believe BTC is selling in the $11's now.


What is your next unbelievable target? Will you shit your pants at $9.75 ? And at $5 will you realize you wasted all this time and money buying GPUs and for what ? While preaching to the masses that mining isn't profitable any more. At least you will be able to start new threads "I told you so..."

You cry at nights?
85  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Exchanges should raise their fees! on: July 05, 2011, 06:51:13 PM
Fees overall should and will be lower in time.

Mtgox 0 fee is just temporary and for very small number of their users. Some users that are on temp 0 fee, tried to scalp, but because majority is clueless how it should be done, gave up. This has no effect on the price of bitcoin. I'm sure they don't even represent 2% of daily mtgox volume.

Raising fees would only mean GREED by exchange owners and would only work on a very short period of time before NEW better exchanges would appear. If mtgox won't rent a real coder and completely rewrite the whole code, basically make a new system, they will die in time and will soon be forgotten. Like WebCrawler or AltaVista search engine not to mention Archie.

WebCrawler was only 6 years before Google came and I'm sure 80% of todays internet population has no idea what WebCrawler was/is since its still active.
86  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Biggest Pyramid Scheme Ever Devised! on: July 05, 2011, 10:23:52 AM
Now if there is 14 Trillion in US Debt, backed by you and I, ....
and there are 300 million of us in the good ol USA, that makes each and every one of us accountable for approx. ...

$46,666.66

and if you buy 100 bitcoins now, for $15 each = $1500
and bitcoins become worth $300 each, you could pay off the entire value of your share of the debt.

Not that I would ever suggest doing that, or that it could be done. But it goes to show what bitcoin can do in relation to the dollar and our 14 Trillion dollar debt.




No offense but Man you Americans and your math. There is so much wrong in this simple math I probably shouldn't even bother with this.

100 BTC at $300 each makes it only $30,000  not $46,666.66

if each of 300mill Americans would try to buy 100 BTC we would run out of BTC by the time 210,000th American would buy his 100 BTC when miners will be able to mine all of the bitcoins. So 299.800,000 people won't be able to pay off their part of the debt or to put it in %. You guys won't even repay 1% of the current debt. By the time we will be able to mine all the coins, you don't even want to guess what USA debt will be at.

here is the most funny part. since USD is debt and you guys will buy bitcoins with it to pay of your debt !? where excatly will all this $300 per bitcoin come from?  Thin hot air or will you borrow more from the Chinese ?
87  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: More difficulty = higher BTC price is an urban legend on: July 04, 2011, 08:44:26 PM
There is not much really to discuss here. Supply is a lot bigger than demand right now, and that's the simple explanation why price is going down.

If you look at the chart since May you will notice that before the boom/bubble started we were basically at $10. This is pretty much where we are going now. I'm not saying we will drop $14 tomorrow and be at $10 by the end of the week. What I'm saying is that since there isn't any real fundamentals behind bitcoin and the fact that we had a first boom cycle,  price needs to ultimately correct itself, based on the fact that there isn't any new development for the real use of the coins right now. Demand for a fresh coins can't keep up with a constant supply and as a result price is adjusting. Until there's any news or a significant influx of new bitcoin  buyers willing to throw a total of few million $us at the market, price can't really start a new real uptrend.

Will anything change if we hit $10? Probably not, but we will see, if we ever get there. People need to realize that 2016 blocks at 50 BTC makes 100.800 BTC which at the moment translates into a demand for $1.411.200 of fresh hardcore cash every 2 weeks. Doesn't sound that much, but the fact that you can only use it on silkroad or buy alpaca socks with it, makes that $1.4mill a bit hard to find. Yes yes, I have seen all new services accepting bitcoins, but give me a break. Bitcoins needs time and legitimate people offering good deals, while people behind the project needs to make it a lot more user friendly.

All this daily or week to week analysis and/or constant posting it just shows that too many people were caught in a hype and that's a reason we had a bubble.

88  Economy / Services / Re: Selling 1Ghash mining contract - $167/month on: July 04, 2011, 08:11:55 PM
Adam nice and transparent except your predictions that contract will earn somewhere from 100 and 250 BTC. Wrong and very deceptive. Contract will earn from 50 to 120 BTC for $2000, which we can say it's a ripoff, based on the fact that $2000 buys you 130+ BTC.

You should adjust price to $120/mo and lower the length to 6 months, total $720. This way you would still make a profit and most naysayers will let you be, because whoever contracts you is actually making a profit at the start. This will make it at least somewhat reasonable for anyone to consider it.

Consider $120/mo for 6months. If you do that, I suggest you also advertise this under mining subforum, where there are other offers like yours and since yours would be cheapest one, you might get more customers. If you not willing to change the price, you will get people in your thread showing you that none of this makes any sense which might lead to less customers.
89  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Worlds Most Economical Bitcoin Mining Contracts! on: July 04, 2011, 02:17:56 PM
Skyhigh, do you have nothing better to do than ramble on with crap? Seriously put your effort towards something useful!

Sure I have better things to do, but I'm multitasking. I'm not rambling crap because I'm 100% sure I'm spot on with what I'm saying. Majority understands it as well since it's not really rocket science. Funny how you call my ramblings crap, yet you removed part of the text  from your website, which I mentioned in my previous post..  quote "Some companies have invested over $500,000 USD in setting up a Large Bitcoin Server Farm in Germany".

By the way this all comes effortless to me, so when you need an objective opinion for your next business venture feel free to PM me.
90  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Worlds Most Economical Bitcoin Mining Contracts! on: July 04, 2011, 07:32:38 AM
David aka djgtr, I'm sure there are people who contacted you and even bought contracts from you. I'm also sure most of them don't know or understand the math behind it, but that's OK. This kind of service is only temporary,  simply because it makes no sense and math behind it doesn't work. When people are more informed on the subject services like yours will get less and less business.

To answer your questions :

--------------------------------
1. A lot of people in Australia and around the world for that matter do not have reliable broadband connections but wish to get involved with bitcoin mining, besides a mining contract what option do they have?
Instead of sending you $1200 US to buy a contract for 3 months, they could BUY bitcoins and get 50% more for the same amount of money.

2. A lot of people are not tech savvy and have never built a computer in their life nor do they want to, why should they miss out on the opportunity to mine? Are they going to go down to (insert local retailer here) and buy an off the shelf mining rig? Most salesmen have never heard of bitcoin and will try to sell the customer a HP or DELL to mine with.
Why bother building anything? Instead of sending you $1200 US to buy a contract for 3 months, they could BUY bitcoins and get 50% more for the same amount of money.

3. A lot of people actually have jobs that take up a large portion of their life, when they are at home they don't want to be monitoring their miners or watching bitcoin value on Mt Gox.
They don't have to monitor anything. Instead of sending you $1200 US to buy a contract for 3 months, they could BUY bitcoins and get 50% more for the same amount of money.

4. Believe it or not a lot of places around the world pay very high prices for electricity or their partner/parents wont let them run miners 24/7.
They don't have to pay any electricity. Instead of sending you $1200 US to buy a contract for 3 months, they could BUY bitcoins and get 50% more for the same amount of money.


The fact is that since some people are offering this services, there is always some people that lack the knowledge on the subject and falls for it. That's OK. We can't get to everyone and explain to them that .. Instead of sending you $1200 US to buy a contract for 3 months, they could BUY bitcoins and get 50% more for the same amount of money.


This has NOTHING to do with being tech savvy, have access to cheap computer parts, pay a fortune for electricity, value your time or whatever else comes to your mind, simply because the end product they get from buying a contract from you are bitcoins. Instead of sending you $1200 US to buy a contract for 3 months, they could BUY bitcoins and get 50% more for the same amount of money.


David / djgtr.. talk to your partner about changing/removing some text on your site. Let me quote it "Some companies have invested over $500,000 USD in setting up a Large Bitcoin Server Farm in Germany".
You don't want to get into unnecessary possible legal issues from someone buying a contract from you and later finding out you guys lied.
91  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Worlds Most Economical Bitcoin Mining Contracts! on: July 03, 2011, 04:36:46 PM
KarlSpaat, you are right on everything, but you missing the point here. You don't have to mine to get bitcoins. If you rent a rig .. you get bitcoins as a final product. Since Vladimir called me dumb, I will use his service as an example.

He charges $700 per month for a minimum of 4 months or a total of $2800 to rent 1 Gh.  If a person wants to rent this, he or she needs to wire him $2800 upfront. In return Vladimir will send daily BTC transfers in amount of statistical expectation of daily bitcoin generation. At the current difficulty of 1379223 this comes out to 0.73 BTC per day until the difficulty re-targets.

4 months x 30 days == 120 days  EVEN at the same difficulty if he sends you 0.73 BTC every day you will receive 87.6 BTC  for the $2800 you wired him. Reality is difficulty will be higher by the time your contract with him runs out, but that's completely beside the point here.

The day that you buy his contract for $2800  you could also buy BTC on the exchange for $2800.  The end result is same - BITCOINS. If you would buy at today's price you would get 180 BTC, while Vladimir will send you 87.6 BTC if the difficulty would stay the same.

This has nothing to do with hardware, electricity, uptime, or whatever else comes to your mind. Whoever sends him the cash to rent a rig, that same person could buy BTC on the exchange that same day.

Vladimir explained in one sentence in his thread :   You buy a contract, you get daily BTC transfers in amount of statistical expectation of daily bitcoin generation for contracted computational power during lifetime of the contract.

If a person buy a contract from these services, they don't even have to actually mine any coins. They COULD buy $2800 worth of BTC on the day you wire them cash. Right now he would get 180 BTC .. Everyday while difficulty at 1379223 he sends you 0.73 BTC to your address. When difficulty will re-target next week he would calculate what he needs to send you daily again. Even if we keep difficulty at 1379223 for the rest of the contract time period of 120 days he would only send you 87.6 BTC  while he COULD buy 180 BTC on the day you wired him cash for his contract.


Isn't this fantastic ?! But then again, I'm the dumb one.
92  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Worlds Most Economical Bitcoin Mining Contracts! on: July 03, 2011, 03:44:01 PM
Vladimir, if I was the dumb here, I'd be contacting you or OP for the fine service you two provide. I'll pass and let the smarts from the 4 dimensional space contact you for your nice deals.

Enjoy your tea & biscuits
93  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Looking to buy 100 BTC. Willing to pay 20USD+ (Liberty Reserve) on: July 03, 2011, 03:18:00 PM
wait, why does the price need to drop to $2.0?

Because daily withdraw limit is $1000.
94  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Worlds Most Economical Bitcoin Mining Contracts! on: July 03, 2011, 03:14:26 PM
Are you guys Miners? We are!

If you do the price based on $15 now, few days time it maybe $13, next week it maybe $5 or it could be $50.

So, our prices are very competitive for this market, what does it cost you to build a machine with 1Ghash and run it for 3 Months??

I know you understand what we trying to tell you, but you still keep on trying to explain something that is not important at all. Price in $ doesn't matter, only the amount of bitcoins you end up with in the end matters. If a person rents a rig from you, they end up with less bitcoins. Your prices are not competitive because whoever rents a rig from you ends up with 50% less bitcoins when the contract end.

How is that competitive? Unless you want compare it another guy that offers SAME BUSINESS THAT MAKES NO SENSE. That doesn't make it any less STUPID.

You, Vladimir and whoever else is offering this kind of service, needs to get more creative and come up with something that makes sense. Or else you just throwing a bad light on the whole bitcoin community, because you are after dumb people who can't add 1+1 on their own while in the meantime you insulting everyone else with stupid excuses that your service is somehow viable. Everyone except rare few knows it doesn't make any sense what so ever, but they just don't bother telling you that 1232 times.

95  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Looking to buy 100 BTC. Willing to pay 20USD+ (Liberty Reserve) on: July 03, 2011, 01:07:47 PM

Please tell me how I can buy 100 BTC and then move 1000 BTC with that.
If your method works you'll get 10 % of the 1000 BTC!


OK here are the instructions

bitcoin price first needs to drop to $2.0 you need to have $200 US dollars in your account and you also need to have at least 900 bitcoins in the account.

then you simply buy 100 BTC for $200 and you withdraw 500 BTC and 500 BTC the next day. Simple.

My method works 100%. You owe me 100 BTC.
96  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: MT GOX... 5 DAYS PASSED!!! Where is my Liberty Reserve? on: July 03, 2011, 12:32:04 PM
Don't you think you should ask their support or maybe PM mtgox guy here or maybe try to msg him on IRC. Throwing accusations wrapped up in a rhetorical question doesn't get you money back. Seems silly.
97  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Looking to buy 100 BTC. Willing to pay 20USD+ (Liberty Reserve) on: July 03, 2011, 11:07:18 AM
Sammy Sammy Sammy. You didn't have to sign up for this forum and take the time to share your story with the rest. All you had to do is get an account on some exchange move LR, buy $15.50, save $300+ which is the amount you got scammed for. Buy your product on SR and be happy.


Would you like to get scammed again? I hope not. So here is what you need to do...


Move your LR to Mtgox, buy 100 BTC at 15.50. It will insta fill. Move 500 BTC to your wallet and you move 500 BTC tomorrow.

Easy job, but you want to make it hard and get scammed for the 2nd time. Or you had something else in mind?


98  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Worlds Most Economical Bitcoin Mining Contracts! on: July 03, 2011, 08:14:38 AM
I'm not hating. I'm pointing out that renting a rig from ANYONE to mine is outright STUPID and people in this thread demonstrated why.  Let me try it again. LOL.


If a person wants to contract 1 Gh from you, he needs to pay you $1200 US dollars up front.  When the 3 months are up  his final product is  XY of bitcoins. ONLY bitcoins. Right now he could buy 75 BTC with the same $1200 US dollars he needs to wire to you to rent a rig from you. When 3 months are up, the guy that rented rig from you will end up with a lot less bitcoins in 99.99999% of the time. Probably around 50 BTC instead of 75 BTC if he would just buy it on the exchange.

The end result after 3 months is same product. Bitcoins, and in the case he would rent a rig from you he will end up with a lot less bitcoin product. Simple as that. BTC price at that time doesn't matter because he COULD already buy 75 BTC on the day he would pay you $1200 to rent a rig from you.

Why would anyone want to have 50 BTC in 3 months time if they CAN have 75 BTC right now and in 3 months time for the SAME AMOUNT OF CASH .. 50% difference for same amount of fiat currency.


This is not hating. This is simple math. Your explanations how some wants to buy bitcoin and others want to mine makes no sense, because the guys that rent your rig don't mine, they get end product - bitcoins. It's just that unfortunately they get 50% less then they would if they would just buy it for $1200.

The fact that others are offering same type of business for EVEN more  doesn't change anything. This is a stupid business aimed at people who doesn't understand the simple math behind it.  
99  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Worlds Most Economical Bitcoin Mining Contracts! on: July 02, 2011, 08:45:20 PM
Might be most economical mining contract out there, but that doesn't say this is a smart way to go. In fact its pretty dumb. Lets see why.

First catch is 3mo upfront payment. I'll be generous and round the numbers to $400/mo for 1 Gh. So we are paying $1200 for 3 months lease that will at best get us 60 BTC at the end of the contract if difficulty would stay the same. We basically paying $20 per each BTC. Basically you paying someone a 25% premium over the current price. In reality you will most likely get a lot less because of the difficulty factor. In 3 months time due to difficulty going up you won't really make 60 BTC but more like 45.


So $1200 buys you 75 BTC today OR you can rent a miner to get you 45 to 60 BTC in 3 months time.

I understand this is a business and business needs to make a profit, but business owner ALSO needs to understand that business needs to at least make some sense.


Let me give you super extreme very dumb comparison.

I'm a farmer growing potato. Your family yearly needs are  550 lbs. You can rent a part of my land on which I will grow and take care of your potato for $2.0 per lbs or a total of $1100 paid upfront and we will deliver you 550 lbs of potato when we harvest it. Great business you run sir, its just unfortunately that 550 lbs of potato in a store only costs $825. Did I mention a possibility that your potato can also rot and you get nothing?

Sign here please, your rented land awaits you.
100  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Anyone know why the network hashing rate has gone down today? on: July 02, 2011, 05:07:08 PM
As I understand it, I could be wrong since I'm fairly new, it was only Satoshi for the whole year 2009 because difficulty was 1.00 all the way to block 32256 when difficulty moved to 1.18 on date 2009-12-30. Maybe he got more CPUs for his new year gift and difficulty went to 1.18 followed to 1.30 then 1.34 and so on. There was no bitcoin price/value at that time. $0.00.

You can check all of this here  http://blockexplorer.com/q/nethash when you will figure out what is what, then you type the block # here http://blockexplorer.com/ to get the exact date.
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