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1  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 08, 2015, 10:48:35 PM
Is it still time to hire some strippers (of both sexes, of course) for that kumbaya session devs are having in Canada?

Nerd egos are stubborn things, might be a good idea to soften up the mood. Make 'em mellow.

Still time? The Backpage-situation graduated all the exotic dancers in Bitcoin 101. International payments to Canada to these entrepeneurs only take seconds / minutes (depending on of much they trust zero confirmations).

And they start saturday! Plenty of time! Let's feed those bras with digital cash!  Cheesy

Hopefully, on monday you all will understand that scaling is not a big problem. Because all miners/nodes/pools/whatever do NOT need to confirm every bleeping transaction. The computer work can be easily shared. The big work isn't processing transactions. It's mining.  Wink

I suspect backpagers buy the majority of my coins on  it's nice because I can arbitrage the spread and buy back immediately at a lower rate on an exchange, but of course I'm really just selling my risk of getting my bank account seized in the event that some bureaucrat somewhere decides it's money laundering and retroactively applies the decision to me. So I have to constantly drain the account to minimize the risk. I also have to buy back in immediately to minimize the exchange rate risk because the most buyers come in during an uptrend.  A five dollar bump in three hours can wipe out any profit.

buying gas cards on is similarly problematic. I get a ~20% discount on the card, but I have to exchange the gamestop card for a shell card at a brick-and-mortar store which takes time and money, THEN I can only buy fuel at Shell stations which typically overcharge ~5% for fuel.

Once I have enough profit to cover living expenses, I crank up the premium I ask for on bitquick and crank up the discount I demand on  If nobody bites, it's no big deal. If they do, that's less work for me in the future.

Arbitraging is the only way I know to make profits without burning through my stack, except of course lending out coins on bfx but the vig is still pretty low. For bigger profits that that, one must OBSERVE THE WALL and get lucky.

I feel with you.
I am right now starting to get out of arbitraging.
Have been doing this since late 2013 for a living.
If you you allow for my directness, but maybe you should consider having a plan "B".

Arbitraging has not only now become the same armsrace as has mining, but also the possible profits are limited and with adoption there are simply too many participants to make more than pocketmoney.
Not speaking of frozen fiatfunds and several banks shutting their door in you face (been there, done that) and sending your money to Lithunania and ofcourse Estonia (Panama City anyone Wink).
Strangers keeping your funds for no good reason, but that they unfortunately bought a ferrari before real profits actually did come in.

magic gathering, pireat et al. anyone?
[what ever became of "catpay" by Ullus Corp, who alsao ran hitbtc who at some point exchanged fiat on your account there for new AML rules? .....]
Ever did an irl deal worth more than 10 BTC with a complete stranger in a subway station?

dont fuck with the taxman.
dont fuck with morals.

and most importantly:
dont fuck with common sense.


2  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: September 08, 2015, 10:34:13 PM

now that you posted the link.

3  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: August 24, 2015, 11:31:05 PM
Funny how these quarrels amongst coders get so many people so excited when we are actually just on our way down from willy/markus artificial highs towards the actual production cost of bitcoin (as any "regular" commodity would behave). As long the max amount of btc has not been mined (or that event is even poking from the far horizon), the amount of cash needed to mine a bitcoin is where the price is pulling.

Yes that is kitchen economics, but ffs that´s just how stuff works.  

Fear not forks, fear free energy.

4  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: August 24, 2015, 05:10:19 AM

Ever wondered why unsuccessful people (or movements) always blame others for their failure, but successful ones never?

Dont get me wrong, but if you are oposing an existing system, please be prepared for equally sized oposition.

If you dont make it, it will have been your own fault.
5  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: new to bitcoin i would like some help on which exchanges to use to buy coins on: July 17, 2015, 09:56:07 AM

i see bitcoin growing and lots of people are going to adopt it, i am in south africa and not much pple know abt bitcoin, i would like to start buying some coins i see the price of bitcoin is on the rise i wish to keep them hoping to sell them when the price is significantly up, can anyone recommend any decent international exchanges i can use to buy bitcoins

First off:

Please wipe that Rand Symbols from your eyes.

If just buying some bitcoin and waiting for the magic internet money to work were actually a successful strategy, these forum pages would be full of really wealthy people.

apart from that:
if you are just entering the world of bitcoin, I suggest to stick with the houshold names:

bitstamp, kraken, bitfinex (to some extend), anx, ofcourse person to person trades with taking the obvious precautions via local bitcoins or mycelium local trader.

good luck and please never forget:

there is no free lunch.

if it sounds too good to be true,
it is not true.

dont fall victim to fear or greed.
6  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Fiat out of HitBTC on: July 17, 2015, 09:10:27 AM
I'd like to cash out some coins and would like to sell them on HitBTC

Is it true it's nearly impossible to withdraw in fiat? I've read several posts about them and this seems to be the case for everyone:

They ran into banking problems and it became impossible to withdraw fiat (Euro in my case). They will then make you jump through some ridiculous "verification" loops and in the end tell you that it is impossible to withdraw fiat for some new (made up) AML regulations. But they will suggest you buy some crypto and withdraw that. and voila: you are on the high bid-side yourself.

They 'unverify' your account and say you should just buy crypto (at a huge loss). Right now I'm waiting for my account to be verified but is taking forever, I've tried contacting them on here, through e-mail, the ticket system, and even through Facebook but I haven't heard anything back as of yet

Basically I'm just wondering, are they legit?

I feared that hitbtc wouldnt die that easy. So here are my two suggestions:

1. short:


2. long:

hitbtc appeared out of nowhere with a truly incredible trading volume (take that literally).
in the beginning (2014) there were many arbitrage opportunities as the prices on hitbtc would swing +/- some % on a more or less monthly rythm. Verifying was easy and straight forward and registering bank accounts took 2 days.
Yes I made much money there. back then.
Then the first hickups started with the introduction of new "AML prerequisites" and already verified accounts of the highest tier even had to be re-verified.
I did jump through that loop. On general everything was still working.
Also the official hitbtc thread here on bitcointalk* was closed and moved to their own forum.

In the beginning it was a company in Panama City (yes Panama...) residing in a shared office building.
Then it moved to northern Europe.
(Verification documents had to be sent to the adress of a translation office in Talin (Estonia)) - They got kind of upset with me when I phoned and emailed that office about their affiliation with hitbtc...
While their "office" was located in a shared office in Norway or Denmark (not sure right now and irrelevant, because it was just a letter box anyway).
Then the second wave of re-verification started. All of my connected bank accounts were de-verified and verification was practically impossible. They actually suggested getting out by buying bitcoin and withdrawing that. In the end that is exactly what I did. I lost about 600 - 700 Euro on the way, but learned my lesson (again):

If it sounds to good to be true,
it is not true.

So, is a scam?
I still dont think so, but it is not working as planned/advertised either.
The explanation is probably as simple as it is hard to fix:

Bank Account.

An exchange has by nature an extremely high in- and outflow of money (fiat that is). This produces very high costs for the bank running the account, as they themselves have to adhere to AML regulations which are becoming more strict every few months. So a customer who moves huge amounts of cash in tiny pieces (hundreds of active customers) like an exchange is simply a nuisance and a financial loss for any bank.

I do not think that will ever be able to fix this, because they simply can not afford it.
They just stay afloat because the servers are still running, but that is already it.

They might feel be tempted to cover their losses (which they probably have already incurred) by scamming a few newbies** on their way out to nirvana, so:


*...It did already contain interesting questions about their trading volume and how it suddenly dropped as criticism here and probably on reddit got too loud. They also were very evasive about where their offices actually were located.
** offense intended. we were all newbies at some point.
7  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: July 10, 2015, 09:09:16 AM
Seems like Huobi is down.. AGAIN?

fire currency burning.

8  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Anyone tried this LocalBitcoins alternative ? on: June 28, 2015, 09:17:19 PM
this thread looks like a marketing thing to me.
especially as not once anyone mentioned mycelium wallets local trader function, which is well, just like localbitcoins. trade btc for cash, and yes it doesnt charge any fees at all.

(there is no escrow service included) - so only trade with people who you know or at least keep the volume low at first time meetings.
apart from that - this is what you want if you really were looking for an alternative.

9  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: I've just opened account on and scammed 0.4 BTC ! on: April 23, 2015, 06:58:50 AM
Well first off, sorry for your loss.
Second: you learned your lesson the hard way.

How do you imagine localbitcoin to hold fiat in an escrow?

Thanks for posting your experiences as awarning to other new users!

Herr Andreas.
10  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Why is HitBTC's and vircurex price higher on bitcoin? on: April 22, 2015, 02:01:44 PM
Holy crap if hitBTC is a scam what does that make this one?

 Roll Eyes

Its been like that for ages, there isnt really any USD on that site.  The site is mostly sitting there waiting for you to deposit a lagre amount of coins in order to trap you with some BS & lock you in.  Never move anything big there.
I have no experience with vicurex but I traded at hitbtc for some time.
They ran into banking problems and it became impossible to withdraw fiat (Euro in my case). They will then make you jump through some ridiculous "verification" loops and in the end tell you that it is impossible to withdraw fiat for some new (made up) AML regulations. But they will suggest you buy some crypto and withdraw that. and voila: you are on the high bid-side yourself.

stay away.
too good to be true is never true.
11  Local / Trading und Spekulation / Re: HitBtc - Sepa Einzahlung on: February 13, 2015, 07:59:32 PM


Hab den ganzen Verifizierungszirkus 2 mal voll mitgemacht und dann haben sie dennoch alle meine Kontoverbindungen für Auszahlungen gesperrt und mir vorgeschlagen, ich soll doch bitcoin kaufen, damit ich mein Geld rausbekomm.

Schaut mal in den englischsprachigen Teil von bt, da gibts ähnliche Erfahrungsberichte.

GTFO. aber hurtig.
12  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 10, 2015, 07:09:59 PM
I will have bought at sub 215 what I sold before at 220.

such profit, G..

I am just starting.

If I saw a chance to be spectaculary right, I would use it.
In every other case, I prefer being right to being spectacular.
13  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: February 10, 2015, 06:36:29 PM
Oh, Lamby Lamby Chop Chop. You're a funny man. But the problem is you're too good and you just can't stop yourself showing it.

Beating out the kids with pennies can't what its about (except of course to protect them and their pocket money, thanks btw). So why do you it? You're not a dull man bitterly left behind (hi, Stolfi); you're not a funster talking his book (hi, fonzie); you're not a 50 center (if you are, pm me I'll give you a dorrar-a-time job).

Those with money are likely to have read enough books, seen enough films and dealt with enough dickheads to recognise that someone with your breadth of cultural references and immaculate put-downs (there, I've said it) cannot possibly not see the "bulltard" future in front of us. The fact that you put so much time on the clock surely re-inforces that. And if the money is here at all, it certainly won't sell because of your thoughtful advice.

Surely the fun of winding people up after all these months and thousands of posts must be wearing thin. What's the exit strategy?

good english language. enjoyed.

btw, we will be at 210 to 200 when I get up in 12 hours.
source: feeling.

please forgive the untechnicality of my prediction, but it´s my first "public" price prediction ever.
Since it seems to be the local custom it is appropiate to throw around with random numbers here and to state some sort of position.
So here it is. my position:

I will have bought at sub 215 what I sold before at 220.

14  Local / Trading und Spekulation / Re: Steuern auf Bitcoin in Österreich? on: January 30, 2015, 04:57:57 PM
HerrAndreas, auch danke an Dich für Deine Zusammenfassung. Das ist aber interessant, man könnte meinen, dass wir auf ganz anderen Veranstaltungen waren.  Cool  So wie ich das verstanden habe, waren ein großer Teil der Diskussionen nicht nur Unternehmern im B2C Geschäft gewidmet, sondern hauptsächlich an Unternehmer gerichtet, die Bitcoins an Kunden verkaufen. B2C Geschäfte, wo der Kunde Waren kauft, und mit Bitcoins zahlt, wurden nur kurz erwähnt. ( In dem Zusammenhang, dass zur Rückabwicklung eine 2te unabhängige Transaktion notwendig ist. )
Der Verkauf von Bitcoin gegen Euro ist ja witzigerweise etwas womit Du nur sehr sehr schwer ins Gewerberecht kommst. Nach der parlamentarischen Anfragebeantwortung aus dem Wirtschaftsministerium geht das nämlich gar nicht, weil Bitcoin ohne eigenen "Nutzwert" nicht Gegenstand der Gewerbeordnung sein können (das ist auf der Veranstaltung gar nicht angesprochen worden) - ich hab auch schon bei der WKO angefragt, ob ich ein Gewerbe anmelden kann und eine freundliche Ablehnung bekommen. Du kommst also nur beim Anbieten von Waren oder Dienstleistungen gegen Bitcoin sicher ins Gewerberecht. Ist aber auch nicht weiter spannend, weil das sowieso schon komplett geregelt ist und nur Detailfragen wie welcher Kurs jetzt für die USt Schuld herangezogen werden soll übrig bleiben.
Was Du sonst noch machen kannst, ist eine Börse oder einen Marktplatz aufmachen oder eben einen Automaten aufstellen. Für eine Börse wirst Du va mit der FMA reden müssen, die nicht wirklich wissen was Sie tun sollen und wahrscheinlich eine Banklizenz (teuer^2) von Dir verlangen (siehe in Dtl die ja die Lizenz von der FIDOR Bank hat).

Warum niemand aus den relevanten Ministerien (Finanz und Wirtschaft) dabei war, sondern aus dem Innenministerium versteh ich immer noch nicht. Das ist fast wie ein Schuster bei einer Bäckerversammlung.

p.s.:Ich find den Titel ungeschickt gewählt. Wenn man über eine Währung schreibt/spricht sollte man sie in der Einzahl nennen. Man sagt ja auch nicht: "Die Euros haben gegenüber den Dollars an Wert verloren."
p.p.s.: Dass man das Buch nicht mit Bitcoin bezahlen kann ist ein ganz grober Fehler. imho.

Allem meinem Unken aber zum Trotz:

Es tut sich was in Sachen Bitcoin in Österreich.
Mal schauen, was als nächstes kommt.

happy Trading.
15  Local / Trading und Spekulation / Re: Steuern auf Bitcoin in Österreich? on: January 26, 2015, 07:25:29 PM
Danke für die Zusammenfassung kalkulatorix.

Ein paar Sachen würd ich allerdings doch noch gern richtigstellen.

1. Von den Diskussionsteinehmern hat ausser dem Moderator (FM4), dem Bitcoinunternehmer und dem coinassociation Typen keiner Bitcoin.
2. Was wir gehört haben war juristisch fast ausschliesslich  Ausführungen, die zu jedwedigem E-Commerce Thema passen würden.
3. Stadler (der Anwalt) hat sich ein paar extreme Blößen gegeben (zB keine Ahnung was jetzt dieses "Bitstamp" ist oder auch gemeint, dass die Silkroad Coins beschlagtnahmt werden konnten, weil man die IP Adressen hatte...).

Meine Kurzfassung:

- Gut, dass sich jemand auch in Österreich mit dem Thema beschäftigt.
- Inhaltlich gibt´s da noch ordentlich Luft nach Oben was die Qualität angeht.
- Dieser Coinassociation Typ kommt mir gar nicht koscher vor. Der wirkt nur wie jemand, der mit einem neuen Buzzword abcashen will. Ansonsten seh ich nicht was der beitragen kann (Ich hab einige  Jahre im Socialentrepreneur / Startup Sumpf in Wien gebadet, ich erkenne Dampfplauderer auf 10 km gegen den Wind Wink ).

->Nett, dass sich ein Verlag zu dem Thema positionieren will.
->Inhaltlich noch nicht viel zu holen.
->Vorsicht vor Rattenfängern.

Vielleicht ist das jetzt mal eine Steilvorlage für bitcoin austria Cheesy

Die ganze Umsatzsteuersache, Gewerberecht, Verbraucherschutz - Rücktrittsrecht ist da irgendwie nicht ganz klar erklärt worden:

Wenn du auf einer (oder mehreren) Exchanges einfach nur tradest (egal wieviel, egal wie oft), fällst du natürlich nie unter diese Regelung und hast deshalb auch keine USt Sorgen.
Wenn Du selbst eine Exchange in AT betreiben willst, lass es (vorerst).
Miner sind sowieso schon ausgestorben (odr?).
und wenn das was wir über den Umsatz mit den Automaten gehört haben stimmt, ist das unter der Wahrnehmunsgrenze um für irgendeine Behörde interessant zu sein.

Also eigtl alles halb so wild, weil wenn du ein Unternehmen aufmachen willst wirst du sowieso zuerst zu einem Anwalt gehen, der dir geghen Honorar eine verbindliche (jeder Anwalt hat Haftpflicht Wink ) Auskunft geben wird.


Herr Andreas.
16  Local / Trading und Spekulation / Re: Steuern auf Bitcoin in Österreich? on: January 20, 2015, 11:02:13 AM

Bitcoins: Rechtliche und unternehmerische Aspekte
zur virtuellen “Währung” Bitcoin

am Dienstag 20. Jänner 2015 um 18.30h
in den Räumlichkeiten der Superfund Asset Management GmbH
Marc-Aurel-Straße 10, 1010 Wien

Es diskutieren:

Christoph Burstup Weiss (Moderation, ORF, Radio FM4)
Dr. Helgo Eberwein, Jurist im Innenministerium, Co-Herausgeber des Buches
Dr. Anna-Zoe Steiner, Universitätsassistentin am Institut für Zivilrecht und am Institut für Europarecht, Internationales Recht und Rechtsvergleichung (Abteilung für Europarecht) der Universität Wien, Co-Herausgeberin des Buches
Dr. Arthur Stadler, Rechtsanwalt, Kanzlei Brandl & Talos Rechtsanwälte, Autor
Mag. Nicholas Aquilina, Rechtsanwaltsanwärter, Kanzlei Brandl & Talos Rechtsanwälte, Autor
Dr. Christian Wimpissinger, LL.M., Rechtsanwalt und Partner bei Binder Grösswang Rechtsanwälte, Autor
Dr. Philipp Klausberger, Habilitand am Institut für Römisches Recht und Antike Rechts- geschichte der Universität Wien, Autor
Max Tertinegg, Geschäftsführer, Coinfinity GmbH
Paolo Sommariva, Präsident des Vereins Coin Association
Anlässlich der Vorstellung des Buches “Bitcoins”, 2014, erschienen im Jan Sramek Verlag, wollen wir mit Vertretern aus Praxis, Lehre und Wirtschaft darüber diskutieren, wie Kryptowährungen wie Bitcoin in Österreich einer Regulierung unterliegen oder unterliegen sollten. Neben steuerlichen und kapitalmarktrechtlichen Aspekten sowie der Betrachtung von Bitcoins als Alternatives Investment, werden auch praktische Anwendungen für Bitcoin-User und Bitcoin-Unternehmer diskutiert.

Geht da wer von euch heute hin?

*und warum bitcoinS und nicht bitcoin?
Ein Buch über die Europäische Währung würde man ja auch "Euro" und nicht "Euros" nennen.
Aber vielleicht erwarte ich da etwas viel... Smiley
17  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: January 16, 2015, 09:12:11 AM
can someone says that the next 20 hours is critical or something gentlemen ?

EDIT : Please ?

It's not true. Next 6 hours are critical Wink

Next 1h30 actually  Tongue
the last 2 years were critical.

18  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: I'm getting more serious about Crypto/BTC - Got a minute? on: January 14, 2015, 03:17:23 AM
Hello everyone,

I've been getting more and more serious about crypto trading. I started off about a year back here and there. Made some money trading small amounts and getting lucky a few times.

Made some money with STR too.

I've been floating 1-5BTC for the past year or so. Putt some money in, make some profit, take my principal out, risk a percentage of the profit --> repeat --> repeat.

Today however I decided to buy around 10 thousand $ worth of BTC. Quite a step up for me, probably not for some of you, from dealing with around 5BTC(around 1500$-2000$ worth at any given time). The price is so low I couldn't resist. I plan to hold out until the price increases. Meanwhile I'm trading some other crypto with calculated risk.

I'm not too greedy so I usually get 5-10% of my principal out after I make 5-10% profit. Until I get all my principal out.

What advice do you have for somebody like me? Whatever I'm trading with I'm prepared to lose, I know that is the golden rule. I'm also curbing my greed as much as possible, I'm willing to take risks, too.

Well it seems to me, that you have done your homework and that attitude is not a risk to you.
What I would advise you to do is to take good care of 2 things.
1. records & taxes
2. your banking connection.
 -->if you trade more volume in shorter timeframes, you will want to talk to your bank first and tell them beforehand or soon enough. maybe even use a seperate bank for your trading.
     I had to learn that the hard way and lost some weeks of trading, because my bank accounts were frozen and all my capital was locked in by my (ex-)bank.
19  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Trading Rules on: January 14, 2015, 03:07:23 AM
I am new to this forum and thinking about starting to trade bitcoin, what are the rules and requirements to start trading ? and is it risky or safe ?

1. Never forget, that you have to tame two deamons and make them your pets. Fear and Greed. Work with them, let them work for you, but never ever let them touch you.

2. it is as risky as you make it. If you can not judge if something you are doing is risky, then you probably shouldnt be doing it anyway (e.g.: juggling running chainsaws, wire walking, or trading bitcoin).

3. If ever you feel you are not 100% in control stop. and take a break.

4. read this: at least once a week.

5. seriously.

good luck.
20  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: January 13, 2015, 04:29:01 AM
now thats the volatility we are here for.

smells like an opportunity if you keep your cool and dont act on emotions but on logic and maths.
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