Escrow kullanmaya çok dikkat edin arkadaşlar, yukarıda ki arkadaşta belritmiş escrow bu işin bel kemiğidir dikakt edin. Bu forumun büyük kısmının pek tekin olduğunu düşünmüyorum ben, kendinize escrow edinin ve kullanın.

Placing an order on kraken can be an utter nightmare, but whats even worse is their margin trading.  Their margin pool is too small, so often trades dont execute.  You'll stick an order on the books and wait for price to move to fill it, and then it will simply cancel.   I've had it say via cryptowatch that orders don't go through, and therefore place them again, only to then have multiple orders execute. It can be impossible to price average because the margin pool is insufficient and complex orders are outright disabled because their platform is so rickety.

Really, their platform blows.  It simply can't handle the load and fails in more ways than I'd have thought possible.  After using bitfinex going back onto Kraken is like stepping off a bullet train onto a coal fired steam train from the 1800's.  Their crappy system has cost me thousands in profits on orders that didn't execute.  They've been saying for quite a while that they're working on, and maybe they are, but to this point I see no evidence of it.

But none of that is criminal, imo.  What they're doing here is flat out stealing, imo, and there's no way in hell I'm sitting for it.

maybe these guys.

they're already suing your asses, apparently.  want to keep racking up those legal bills, keep on keepin' on.

I'll give it one week and will then contact these people.  no question, no doubt.    make the right call, Kraken.


https://www.silvermillerlaw.com/uncategorized/2017/10/31/kraken-well-see-you-in-arbitration/

no way these guys should simply be allowed to keep possession of this stuff.

Let's look at it like the lawyers will

Amount of damages = # of BTC on deposit * market price

according to the block explorer that is currently 21,000+ BTC * 139 = $2,919,000




sorry, guys, but you can't just snatch $2 million from people and not expect a serious blowback which, in the US, means a lawsuit.

lawyers WILL be interested with numbers that look like this ^^^^^

You have no right to keep digital assets generated by coins that belong to others. That is theft, imo.

You guys are going to be looking at a class action if you don't reverse on this and give people what rightfully belongs to them.

Thanks for your understanding.

an account with one post, dealing only with this.

m'kay.

if you've got any proof of any of your claims, that'd be great....

why not?  someone gets it. 

Kraken just gets the forked coins then?  kraken doesn't have to support trading to give people what rightfully belongs to them instead of keeping these assets for themselves.

quite frankly it's theft. 

Here's what I posted way back in 2014.  Obviously it's dated somewhat....


I've put together the following rundown on how I went about getting my money back.  I hope it helps those of you looking to do the same, be that through your CC company, PayPal, or the court system.


*Disclaimer*  **I'm not a lawyer and this is not to be construed as legal advice.  I make no representation as to the accuracy of any of this information, or the likely outcome of any action you decide to pursue.  If you feel you need legal advice and/or representation, you should consult an attorney before proceeding further **



I obviously pointed out the DSR and quoted the following:

“Under the DSRs, a customer’s right to cancel is unconditional.
If customers cancel before they have received the goods, you must refund the total price of the goods, including any delivery charges.
If they cancel, they can refuse to accept delivery of the goods. This cannot be treated as a breach of contract.”
I obviously cited the DSR and quoted the following: 

DSR is here:  http://dshub.tradingstandards.gov.uk/dsrexplained



I stated that Alpha was not denying that this law would apply to consumers, but rather was trying to recategorize their customers as businesses rather than consumers and offered their own e-mail dated July 28 to back that up.

I stated that I was not a business and also that no representation was made by Alpha prior to sale that these sales would be treated as sales to a business.  I had stated this repeatedly to Alpha in e-mails and offered those also as supporting evidence.  Further to that I pointed out that the tax brief they repeatedly cite was issued AFTER my purchase and that it clearly states that it is for tax purposes only:

They site the following link themselves in an e-mail dated July 28:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/briefs/vat/brief0914.htm


“The tax treatments outlined in this brief are for tax purposes only. They in no way reflect on the treatment of cryptocurrencies for regulatory or other purposes.

Given the evolutionary nature of these cryptocurrencies, HMRC will issue further guidance as appropriate.

Issued 3 March 2014”


What I also cited, which may be new to some people, is the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, which prohibits material omissions of fact, among other things.  This omission of intent to categorize this as a B2B sale prior to sale, IMO, is a material fact that was not disclosed prior to sale.  Alpha T is in violation of several things in this law.  I would recommend anyone trying to get a refund read that entire thing, there is plenty in there that can be used.

It is located here:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2008/9780110811574/regulation/6



Nice job also to whoever has the sites fightalpha.net and http://www.abunchacrap.com/Alpha01052014/atindex.html .  There is a ton of good info on them in terms of statements on delivery dates, some of the notices they sent out etc, that can be used to construct your supporting documentation if you haven't kept the e-mails and other stuff that came out. 




For those that need to file via the courts, even from outside the UK see this site:

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome
Welcome to Money Claim Online

Money Claim Online (MCOL) is HM Courts & Tribunals Service Internet based service for claimants and defendants.
Money Claim Online is a convenient and secure way of making or responding to a money claim on the internet.


Please note, if you are outside the UK:

for those who are not in the UK and are considering using Money claim online you will need a service address. This is an address in the UK where mail is sent, then forwarded on to you. Here is one such company, I have never used them so check them out yourselves but they do forward mail internationally and accept personal as well as business customers.  There may be other services as well

http://www.cityaddress.co.uk/index.html




So, review the resources above, INDEPENDENTLY VERIFY THEM FOR YOURSELF put together your materials in an organized fashion and file through your CC company, PayPal or the court system, depending on your situation, and if you decide to pursue this further.  For the items you cite, cite their own e-mails to back them up or relevant law from the DSR or  Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.  Just make sure you offer supporting evidence for any point you make AND THAT YOU HAVE INDEPENDENTLY VERIFIED IT.

It is also important, I think, to cite evidence that they were trying to paste this “you are a business” tag on people, as I think it shows bad faith.  They did send this claim out in an e-mail, dated July 28th in which they both state this and cite that tax brief, which was dated after many sales were made.

For people that want to wait until after they miss their Q3 target date, which may be important as initially by credit card company asked what the date was and wanted to wait until after it had passed to start a claim, use the information on the websites people put up to cite that delivery date and possibly this article, in which Mubasher is dancing on the July 31 date, but is citing the end of Q3.  He is also citing these as business purchases in the article and Coindesk is citing the fact that the tax brief was issued after the sale of the devices.  Bottom line, read the article and decide if you want to include it:

 http://www.coindesk.com/alpha-technology-blames-paypal-dispute-bitcoin-asic-delivery-delay/

If it's through a Credit Card company or PayPal and they are giving you a hard time about the timeframe, simply point out that, yes, it's been after 45 days or whatever, however the breach of consumer law happened after that 45 day period and still before delivery.  As far as I know they didn't start making this claim of "these are business purchases" until well after 45 days after purchase time, but I haven't looked up the exact time-frame they started using that argument.

I would also recommend going to your CC company first.  I've run across material on PayPal that they will try to argue for the vendor, with whom their interest lies, so go to the CC company first if possible.  If you have to deal with PayPal, go for it.  I've seen some people argue successfully there also.

You may have to be persistent with the CC company or PayPal, who may want to simply blow this off as outside the 45 day window.   Make sure you are ready for that first phone conversation.  Get your stuff together and be prepared to have a conversation presenting your case before you make that first phone call, as if you're not prepared you might get kicked to the curb and up locked out of those avenues.


Also be aware that this is going out in a public fashion, so our friends at Alpha may well be reading this.  Be ready to offer more if you can, in the event that they are able to fabricate some actual argument to any of this.  I don't see how they can, but that's what lawyers are for and I have not doubt they're talking to their legal people at this point.



*Disclaimer*  **I'm not a lawyer and this is not to be construed as legal advice.  I make no representation as to the accuracy of any of this information, or the likely outcome of any action you decide to pursue.  If you feel you need legal advice and/or representation, you should consult an attorney before proceeding further **



Hope it works out for you if you decide to pursue a refund. 

Good Luck everyone.

See here

http://fightalpha.net

It's all in this thread.  Someone at one point set up a website, referenced here also.  Problem is going to be time elapsed, although I guess you could argue that this is further evidence that you should get your money back.  All that assumes also that there is any money still there, so you might have to go after these guys personally.

Anyhow, dig through the thread.

I'll go through my old posts to see what I can find, as I did successfully get my money back and at one point posted how I did that.  If I can find it, i'll repost...

Yeah, at this point I agree with you both.  Localbitcoins is no secret.  Buying on exchanges no secret either and there are plenty of them to keep the liquidity such that there are at least loose market prices day to day.

This guy wasn't talking, I don't think, about trading as much as selling coins.  I'm looking for the how, which is not explained in the video, (but hey you get the first installment for 'only' 1 bitcoin.)

My initial impression is maybe not outright scam, but selling something that could otherwise be learned here and through some research for quite a bit less than the 10 BTC total one ends up paying for the actual program.  

Selling the dream, so to speak, of just doing this for a living, sitting in the beach chair getting rich, but I figured somebody here might have some info derived from actual experience.

So, a friend sent me a video on "The American Bitcoin Academy".

Apparently this is some program advertising that they'll teach you how to trade Bitcoin.

I was wondering if anyone had any experience with this organization.



http://americanbitcoinacademy.com/




here's the video "how I trade bitcoin for a living"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBNBbsJIXOU


I see a facebook page and, of course, their website, but could find no reviews.

I see a couple of issues here, but thought I'd ask to see if anyone had any 1st hand experience with these folks.

Opinions, insights welcome too, of course.  lol.

Nice cherry-pick, asshole.  You also promised price matching, several delivery dates you didn't keep, refunds and on and on and on.

You broke so many agreements on this that I doubt even you delusional pieces of shit remember them all.

Fucking thieving bastards is all you people are.  Put that in your next agreement.

11.6. Purchaser agrees that they are aware that we are lying, thieving assholes that will keep our word on nothing, then turn around and cite utter bullshit as some lame excuse as to why they are not due their money back, in direct violation of consumer law.  We don't care about laws or rights of our customers because we are criminals, with a long history of stealing people's money.

Exactly what I was thinking.  Account with three posts, all saying it's not worth it to file.  We had the same issue some time ago in this thread with some ridiculous stuff going on, so there is precedent already for this.

 Nope.  As usual, that post makes no sense.  I am starting to think your masters keep you very high on drugs to keep their sex boy from escaping....or from thinking too much.

They don't like either one of those things, so I think you are probably very high and chained up in a basement wearing an Uncle Sam costume.  I wonder if they make you bark like a good little doggie or if you posting all of this is enough to get their dicks hard so you can all jerk off together while shouting quotes from your little red books.

And yet you are the one constantly talking about porn and posting it. 

That is, when you're not licking the nuts of your Chinese heroes, of course, which seems to be your favorite activity.  That you can see to type when their nuts are slapping you so constantly in the face is quite amazing.

I imagine the 'evidence' you seek is in the pile of gooey socks next to your computer.  I'd clean that up if I were you.  Chairman Mao doesn't like his sex boys to keep messy rooms.  Might crush you under a tank if he steps in that shit when he comes for his BJ.

Why you give a shit what I decide to worry about.

Where did I say anything about anyone watching porno?  Get your hand off your own dick so your brain can think.

China still sucks massive donkey cock on human rights.  Your continual attempts at deflection of this plain and simple fact means you are sucking those donkey cocks too.  You are the perverse one, licker of donkey balls...

Because China still sucks donkey balls on human rights issues?

What do I win for guessing correctly?  Some time in jail for reprogramming maybe?

Me too.  Zip.

A river of broken promises is all I have gotten from these low-life pieces of shit.

Might as well run a reality show from the white house.  It's two-bit actors and drama queens slinging bullshit already...