Straight from the horse's mouth: http://ecointalk.net/topic/1522-how-most-all-tickets-start-out-dear-customer/Posted Nemesidis 20 October 2014 - 08:49 AM "Units don't really blow up, i am more than sure it was the PSU, please send it back for replacement, we are trying to get shipping fees out of PSU factory, but as you understand they retaliate. It's very hard to get money back for anything, once you paid in China. Before you do, they will feed you for free shake your hand and act like you are a king, afterwards, after you paid no one will care much. Unfortunately we are not PSU factory and cannot replace those by ourself." The pricks deleted posts in response to that and locked the thread. typical, although not in that he was seemingly admitting they are shitting on people, before shitting on them again, censoring their replies and locking the conversation. |
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Does anyone wonder why, if they have these great lawyers that advised them in advance that they could declare people to not be consumers, that we are not hearing from these lawyers directly.
Every time I've been involved in civil litigation in my business my lawyer is front and center once the fur starts flying. Correspondences come directly from their firm, is signed by the lead attorney and there is no doubt about their actual existence.
I've never believed this story and I've got a few reasons why:
1. If they had consulted them beforehand this obviously would have been spelled out in the terms of sale
2. As indicated we've not seen any sign of any actual lawyer or firm that stepped up and said "yes, we advised that this was acceptable prior to sale"
I simply don't believe their claims and never did. Of course you can find an attorney to defend anything after the fact. All you need is a checkbook for that, but a firm advised them that this was the best way to go beforehand and not to tell people at time of sale? I call bullshit.
The DSR applies and if they would have liked to state otherwise they'd have had to tell people that in advance, not after the fact.
If they were so firm in their position they wouldn't be offering deals. That also is simple logic that leads to that opinion.
I think they know they're screwed in court. If they were solid, and their solicitors agreed, we'd be seeing different communications and actions at this point, IMO.
Just an opinion, of course. Good luck everyone.
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It gets even better: "Send us the defective PSUs that we recalled and told you not to use under any circumstances. We will test them and if we discover that we actually didn't send one that explodes, we'll charge you an extra fee for testing and postage." It almost seems like parody, but unfortunately is completely true: 08 Sept 2014: X3 Power supply recall
There have been reports that some X3s are failing. We have located this problem to be caused by the power supply.
Please note that this power supply is not manufactured by Black Arrow and has been purchased from a company in Shenzhen which sold it to us as CE certified.
After thorough investigations the power supply company has reached the conclusion that there are 3 major issues in this PSU and any PSU can fail at any time and it not safe to use. They have currently fixed the issues and are currently testing them.
Please stop using all X3s immediately!
We are recalling the X3 power supplies. Please do not ship your X3 unit or X3 Power supply back to us right now. We will contact the X3 customers later this week with more instructions on how to arrange shipping. If you have an X3 and have not received an email from us this week please contact our customer support immediately.
According to Nemesidis, this has now changed to Please send not working ones for replacement, include ticket number as RMA number.
Unfortunately we cannot replace something that is sitting at your place, we need to receive it, file it and find a cause. After that, replacements will be issued. We are unable to replace units or parts, without receiving ones that has problems back. Please note that if found working, or mechanically damaged, additional charges can be applied for replacement and testing of such parts. 1) Recall all PSUs and tell people to unplug and RMA them. 2) If any of the PSUs actually does work, charge customers an additional fee for testing and replacement. 3) PROFIT!!! This is complete and total bullshit. Cocks. bu oh look, it's Black Arrow fucking it's customers again. send us the PSU's that could cause the miner to burn your house down and if that PSU by some miracle actually runs we charge you for testing and replacement. this just gets dumber and dumber and their actions just get shittier and shittier. I would have thought that impossible as my opinion already is that these people are total lying pieces of shit that don't deserve a spot next to dog crap on the bottom of my shoe, but they always surprise me with that "spare capacity to learn" new ways to fuck the people they are already fucking. This is YOUR issue Black Arrow, created by either your incompetence in design or lack of testing or it sits with the supplier. Either way this is not something you pass to your customers, you low life pieces of shit. |
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... 2 Hosting of devices, we provide hosting without charges expect for power cost, that are deducted from Bitcoin earned, you will receive rest of the BTC. Once power cost exceeds the produced BTC, we keep the miner ion our datacenter and ownership are transffered to Black Arrow. Shipping fee will also be used to cover power cost. Current estimated cost of power is 0.6 RMB per 1 TH an hour. (power cost are subject to adjustment as we still calculate exact cost) ...
They must be proud of themselves for thinking up that bullshit yep. your minerz are mein. your moniez is mein. we host until we decide we don't anymore. and we're keeping what you paid for shipping because we suck major donkey ass and don't think you're smart enough to realize that that is further loss to you also. typical bullshit from these people. how is that compensation? just another anal rape from the company that brings you more prison shower scenes than anyone in the ASIC manufacturing space. fucking assholes. |
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from their forum
"Dear Customer,
We apologize for the delayed response.
Unfortunately currently we are unable to provide refunds as we spent money for units production, as or X-3 units we can offer refund for unspent money part, which is 48$ + shipping fee.
As for X-1 units we are currently selling them paying a part from our own money. So unfortunately we are unable to refund money.
There is few compensation options unfortunately they cannot be added to each other.
1 50% bonus to original hashing power purchased in hardware, dispatched after main order queue is cleared.
2 Hosting of devices, we provide hosting without charges expect for power cost, that are deducted from Bitcoin earned, you will receive rest of the BTC. Once power cost exceeds the produced BTC, we keep the miner ion our datacenter and ownership are transffered to Black Arrow. Shipping fee will also be used to cover power cost. Current estimated cost of power is 0.6 RMB per 1 TH an hour. (power cost are subject to adjustment as we still calculate exact cost).
3 We offer to exchange each X-3 purchased for 120 ASIC minion chips. Please note that chips are not plug and play product, they require advanced engineering and SMT assembly.
Regards Alexey A.
Regards,
Black Arrow Team"
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Update: https://alpha-t.net/news/viper-chip/Greetings Miners! Now that we have working chips all we need to do is assemble these and ship; we are of course currently assembling the devices and shipping will follow once this is complete. While we are regrettably late in our shipping schedule please note our hash rates are still 10 times originally promised and with our profit sharing scheme not to mention the batch 1 loyalty bonuses we believe we have done our best to make up for this. Generally speaking most if not all ASIC manufacturers have never delivered on time and with batch 1 soon behind we have every intention of taking what we have learned and overcoming this in our next generation product. Best Regards, Mohammed Akram Director Famous last words. One of the other shitty manufacturers in the ASIC manufacturing space, my good friends at Black Arrow, who suck possibly worse than these shifty bastards, had their chips delivered in May, if memory serves. After that it has been a slew of problems, not to mention issues arising from proper CE, UL etc. certifications, or lack thereof, it would seem. Of course they issued the same sunshine up your ass notice saying that they'd receive chips on X day, I think it was May 7, and start shipping literally the next day, with all orders going out within a month or some such bullshit. Yeah, right. somewhere around 5 months after those retards got their chips in, a lot, if not most, people have still not received their miners. the same is true for Alpha. They need testing. they need quality markings. they will need to work kinks out more likely than not. You can't simply knock these together and ship them out. these are electrical devices pulling a shit-ton of power and running in people's homes. As much as people may want to get these ASAP, as Black Arrow found out, the result can be literally be catastrophic if the quality is not vetted thoroughly, as those morons shipped miners that literally started on fire. Nice job, Black Arrow, you bunch of lying, not to mention grossly incompetent, shitbags. Alpha has a long way to go. I will admit I'm surprised they even have the chips. I'll be more surprised if things go anywhere close to as planned and they ship any major quantity within the next month. |
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The X3 is now worthless trash if you pay more than 21¢ a kWh.  These things are DOA. Had they kept their price matching promise, used as a material promise to sell these now literally worthless pieces of shit, consumers might have some shot at getting something back, if they were willing to run a fire hazard in their home, which I'm not. Now that they've broken that promise people might as well have flung their money out the window while driving down the highway. That would actually have been better as at least someone would have put the money to good use and it wouldn't have gone to a credit card thief turned ASIC scammer, as seems to be the case here. If you're reading this, fuck you, alex , you worthless, gutless piece of shit, without the common decency or balls to ever step forward to address the customers you've fucked out of their money. People and companies exactly like this are what is fucking up bitcoin. the slime of humanity circling, scamming people out of their money, not delivering what they sold, crying like little bitches about everything under the sun except their own fuck-ups, claiming innocence and hiding behind their attorneys. the only consolation is watching that shitty company burn, just like their crap quality miners. |
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Well...this week i got my deposit refunded in full from my Bank.
Started the proceedings a while back and first they (Alpha) replied with the standard answer (more than x months bla bla since the time of purchase).After they failed to deliver the miners by 30 sept i continued to argue my case with the bank (and also Paypal). While Paypal still wasn t cooperative the bank managed to refund my money.
yep, there are a couple of avenues people can take in terms of argument and it seems it just depends on who you talk to. my bank outright laughed at their trying to recategorize this as a B2B purchase and I mean the fraud rep laughed out loud and said "oh no, they can't do that", they asked for supporting docs to back that up, I provided them and they reversed the charge in about a week. it sat as a provisional credit for a couple of weeks then was finalized. even in that circumstance, however, they wanted to wait until after they'd missed that first delivery date to file, and some people have said that this issue of delivery was primary to their bank, so this issue of delivery date is something that should be documented well in case you need it. there is a lot of info on dates and supporting evidence for citing that they missed their delivery dates in this thread and on the sites a couple of websites people have put up. some people are also trying to work with PayPal to get a case file built up with them to make this easier for people. As some have said it comes down to documenting there also. Those that have successfully gotten refunds from PayPal please post reference numbers so they can be cited by others arguing for refunds. Ditto for those that have won court cases. It's great that some people have gotten their money back. If we can get some more documentation others will be able to do the same. Those that have already done these things are in a position to help those still trying to get their money back. Hopefully we can get that and blow a gigantic hole through the PayPal wall and the same with the court cases. With case #'s etc., for people to cite in their filings, those cases just get stronger. |
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so it was a successful day for me. I payed my 30% deposit through paypal and my additional 70% via wire transfer.
I contacted paypal yesterday who opened a dispute and contacted alpha about it, but the dispute was immediately closed due to the 45 day rule. I called back this morning and pushed the issue until I got transfered to a supervisor. She said she had to do some research on it, so I fully explained the situatoin and how other people had already reported alpha to paypal, etc etc. Within an hour the 30% was back in my paypal account.
Then I contacted my bank on a hope and prayer regarding the wire transfer. Turns out they do have some options on wire transfers (at least USBank does). They are contacting alpha's bank and requesting the funds on grounds of fraud, and I have filed a report with USbank's fraud department as well. I will know more by Friday hopefully- I'll keep you guys posted.
Moral of the story- if paypal gives you the run around, call again, and again, and again. Be very nice to the people and I recommend immediately asking to speak with a supervisor or protection services. It also obviously helps if you run a decent amount of money through paypal every year- I threatened to switch companies and payment processors for a bunch of my stuff which i think helped to put pressure on paypal to rectify the situation rather than just passing the buck.
I'll update when I hear more on the wire transfer.
Hello, can you provide a screenshot with a transaction ID? Paypal says their policy is if they refund one person regarding Alpha-T, they refund everyone. But they couldn't find any record of a refund given. You'd be helping a lot of people out. I'd post the screenshot on http://fightalpha.net along with your BTC donation address. I defiantly would donate some BTC for an ID of a PAYPAL transaction that received refund. I am getting zero from my refund request from PayPal. I've posted this to fightalpha: http://fightalpha.net/index.php?topic=30.0That's awesome. If some people want to post similar info on their court cases as well it would help. Images of orders, etc. Somebody said that the court tossed Alpha's case/argument out, which doesn't surprise me but I didn't have to take mine that route so I don't have that sort of documentation. I have gotten my refund from a CC company, but have been in contact with PayPal over this to try to solidify their information and have been explaining the legal grounds to a caseworker person with respect to the DSR and Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 what Alpha has been trying to do in terms of categorizing these purchases as B2B after the fact. They do see the point and are not arguing it at this point, however, they've asked if I could provide any info from those court cases. Obviously if people don't want to post personal info here, or hand it to me that's understandable. If you can PM me we can talk about how to get it to PayPal. Maybe just redact the persona info post a doc somewhere or something. I have worked my way into their legal people and they are listening at this point, just asking for further documentation that people have successfully won these filing and the UK courts have already ruled in this fashion. Basically, whatever documentation can be pulled together in an organized fashion on this will help. |
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Ok, Alpha T defended my small claim court per below
How much of the claim do you dispute?
I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.
Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it?
No, for other reasons.
Defence
The claimant's address is a non-uk address. We have not done any
business with this individual and the address is out of uk
jurisdiction.
Signed
I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true
M.Akram
Managing Director
03/10/2014
Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you
66 DICKENSON ROAD
MANCHESTER
M14 5HF
These fucking dickheads are liers. Please stop doing business with them.
Has anyone from none UK residential address filed samll claim against AT yet?
I also contacted CC to charge back today.
Yes, I have. I am in the US. You need to register a UK address. See my step by step on "How to sue Alpha T" here http://fightalpha.net/index.php?board=8.0I got a reply email from Money Claim Online and advised me the following A request fro Directions Questionnaires has been issued in this case and you are required to complete and submit the attached form by 23/10/14, the form will be returned if you have not provided an address within the UK .Thus, I need to submit the Directions Questionnaires. But I am ensure how does this work by submitting the requested form. In regards to obtaining UK address, I checked the web site that you provided me and would like to confirm whether I need the mail forwarding service http://www.cityaddress.co.uk/mailbox-services/mail-forwarding.html or else ? Could you advise. Package Monthly Quarterly 6 Monthly Annually Personal Use Allows up to 4 personal names but no business names £13.00 £37.50 (£12.50 per month) £62.50 (£10.41 per month) £99.99 (£8.33 per month) We'd need to see the form to help on that, but it seems they're telling you to use a UK address, which you can obtain by using that or a similar service I think. I'm not sure what you're asking, exactly. If you can clarify maybe someone can help |
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Ok, Alpha T defended my small claim court per below
How much of the claim do you dispute?
I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.
Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it?
No, for other reasons.
Defence
The claimant's address is a non-uk address. We have not done any
business with this individual and the address is out of uk
jurisdiction.
Signed
I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true
M.Akram
Managing Director
03/10/2014
Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you
66 DICKENSON ROAD
MANCHESTER
M14 5HF
These fucking dickheads are liers. Please stop doing business with them.
Has anyone from none UK residential address filed samll claim against AT yet?
I also contacted CC to charge back today.
They've done no business with you? that should be easy enough to disprove. e-mails, payment records etc. in terms of this address issue you should use a UK address. There are services which provide that. see here: http://www.abunchacrap.com/Alpha01052014/atindex.html |
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I just called PayPal and they would not refund the money. I asked to escalate to Protection Service or Legal and they told me that I would have to send a subpoena to their legal department. In order for them to give me a refund, I have to contact my credit card to get them to refund the money.
Just escalate the claim. Keep trying. There are a lot of PayPal reps that do not know what they are doing. Keep trying until you find one that knows what to do. Say other people have filed claims against the company and were refunded through PayPal. But most of all everyone needs to post their PayPal dispute numbers here so you can shares them and use them as evidence. Email PayPal with all the dispute numbers. Collectively it make PayPal listen. There is a guy on the litecointalk forum that was able to get $150,000 reversed from another company that screwed up as bad as Alpha Tech did. Good check out the FT thread there. https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=7930.0+1 don't take no for an answer. send a subpeona? give me a break. transfer me and let me talk to someone. others are right. if people can post their dispute numbers here for people to use as reference, it might help these others break through. you are probably better off with your credit card company anyhow, so you might want to chase that down. you'll have to call and open a chargeback and likely send in supporting evidence. there are plenty of posts in this thread showing how to do that, and there are people that have websites up to help people, so you may have to go back through the last several pages to find some of that. here's a basic outline that I posted: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=314402.msg8954774#msg8954774if you have ??'s and post them here maybe some people here can help you. good luck. |
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and have any solutions thread if I paid through Bitcoin (Bitpay) Can something be done?
If you paid by BTC i think the best would be you communicate Alpha to refund you. In this case, you will only get 30% of your initial deposit. That or you can sue them via small claims. you can do that from wherever you are. there are instructions elsewhere in this thread, or just look back through my posts. I posted a basic outline at one point and I know others have also. you can also see here: http://fightalpha.net/index.php?topic=5if you want to do that and have questions, post them here. Someone may be able to help you. Good luck. |
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It is important that when talking to PayPal support to have them escalate to PayPal Protection Services or PayPal Legal. The reps will only quote the 45 day limit. They don;t know anything else about what PayPal does. They couldn't even tell me what the PayPal terms and conditions are for Merchant Preselling, Oh but they are quick to state the 45 day limit rule. Bunch of monkeys in a cage.
They are not given the permissions to escalate to a claim, so you have to get them to call Protection Services or Legal. Those guys know exactly what to do. I spoke to a PayPal rep 2 weeks ago who had to get a supervisor and then a call center manager to finally figure out that yes Protection Services can do reversals after 45 days and even after 6 months. The supervisor was shocked that it was possible. WHO knew!!!!
So do not take what the front like reps say as law. They are just quoting the almighty callcenter tome of knowledge. They are clueless as to how PayPal really works.
Total success story: Tada!!! Unbelievable! I went back to PayPal after reading the above information and pressed PayPal with escalating to their Protection department or PayPal legal, and when I brought this up, the person on the other end said that many more Alpha T customers are on the list and regardless of Alpha T terms of purchase for refunds, since they have not shipped the unit to me and do not have a unit as proof that it exists, I could get my money back NOW ! All I needed to do then was to go to PayPal and transfer the refund they just gave me for my 50Mh ghost unit and put that money back into my bank account!!!!! ALL DONE. I did take the time to fully explain the original refund policy of AT. I also made it clear about how AT took final payment and had to stop in July after the CC processor found out they did not have a product to ship. I also told the person that after I paid for my unit in January 2014, that AT sometime much later in the year tried to categorize all of us customers as businesses. The call center PayPal person was aware of all these things and much more negative things about Alpha Technology from many other disputes recently filed by AT customers. She told me that her decision to give me back my money was solely based on no product being able to be shipped at this time. There is no way AT can wiggle out of this one. They had no product to ship by 30 Sep which is painfully admitted in their own recently sent email and post on their site. Regardless of all the other conditions they tried to impose and lies they tried to tell to us, they lose. The day of their arrogant refusal to give refunds is over for those of us who paid using PayPal. I suggest that if you used PayPal as payment, regardless of how long ago you made that payment, now is the time to strike and call PayPal back. Ask the call center person to escalate directly to their Protection Services or Legal department and make clear how you paid and never got your unit as promised by AT's own imposed NLT ship date of 30 Sep. You should be able to immediately get your money back. I am pretty sure that AT is monitoring this site and thread. So if you are, stand by to have to pay back everyone you have misled and deceived since 2013. You would have been much smarter to have just been honest and transparent with your customers, as you site so eloquently states that you do. The chickens have come home to roost for AT. Strike while the iron is HOT! That's awesome! Great job! |
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It is important that when talking to PayPal support to have them escalate to PayPal Protection Services or PayPal Legal. The reps will only quote the 45 day limit. They don;t know anything else about what PayPal does. They couldn't even tell me what the PayPal terms and conditions are for Merchant Preselling, Oh but they are quick to state the 45 day limit rule. Bunch of monkeys in a cage.
They are not given the permissions to escalate to a claim, so you have to get them to call Protection Services or Legal. Those guys know exactly what to do. I spoke to a PayPal rep 2 weeks ago who had to get a supervisor and then a call center manager to finally figure out that yes Protection Services can do reversals after 45 days and even after 6 months. The supervisor was shocked that it was possible. WHO knew!!!!
So do not take what the front like reps say as law. They are just quoting the almighty callcenter tome of knowledge. They are clueless as to how PayPal really works.
Exactly. In reality Paypal is on the side of the seller. That's where they generate their fees, so they are going to make every attempt to turn you away. Best bet is to go to your credit card company first if that is at all possible. |
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I didn't even realize that the original poster was a asic company. Wow, perhaps this is a disingenuous thread where he is merely manufacturing evidence as to a supposed theft that he is "concerned" about as a excuse to not fulfill his obligations. What is up with this? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=105804that's the very first thing that went through my head. "gee, isn't that convenient" people have been saying all along that they can see their btc sitting in the wallets they sent them to to pay these people. Meanwhile they're crying poor and saying they can't refund, after promising they would and people say their btc are sitting in plain view. and now they've suffered a theft. could be totally legit, but it could also just be yet another suspicious move out of a company that seems to ooze them like some people sweat. and the trust ratings? they earned each and every one I'm sure. they've also left negative trust for people claiming they're not customers that are being paid to post in their thread, while in an online article they admit they have no proof of those claims. they've set up a bot in that thread to delete some people's posts automatically, which is why that BlackArrow user is signed on 24/7, and have done whatever they can to control information going back months, including deleting 100 pages or so from that original thread and deleting comments and entire threads from their forum. is it that much of a stretch to think they would actively spread misinformation by doing something like this as a gambit? not for me it's not. I've been watching this for months and don't believe a word they say at this point, nor trust that their motives on any action are not on some level self-serving. |
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I had this HUGE feeling the Mohammad bitch would say something exactly like this!!!!
"Target date" and not "guarantee"
ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GOOD LUCK BITCH! The whole community is coming for your nutsack. Some for your head.
I just contacted Paypal. You are not going to believe this. They have no record of any calls complaining about Alpha Technology. Zero. Nothing on file. Mine is now the first noting of a concern. This might be what you see in these reality singing competitions where you just hope your favourite gets through and nobody votes and they get knocked off. Paypal said we are not covered under the days passed since ordering and also if you only paid a deposit as they don't cover part payments. However they did say they may be able to reverse that stance if enough people called with a concern. I stated I was concerned this money may be put towards illegal even terrorist acts. Which has been noted. No prototype no video no nothing. Within 1 minute of me explaining the situation the Paypal rep said this is a clear scam. Even laughed at the Scheme angle. So if you really want to kick this in the NUTSACK call Paypal say you want a full investigation and your call noted and added to existing complaints on this company. Hey maybe Alpha Technology are legit. Either way its time to find out. We paid them they work for us. Hmm. I know that is not the case. I talked to them. I've e-mailed back and forth with them also. I was complaining as well as pointing out how they were trying to skirt consumer laws. I got the same basic response of 'umm, they can't do that' the question is how to amp it up so they have to acknowledge it and get it in their 'system' or whatever. |
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want to reduce the number of thefts? get rid of unethical manufacturers like Black Arrow and jail the lying bastards that run them, including BlackArrow, who made a number of promises to consumers right here on this forum to sell their miners that have since been broken.
who knows if this claim of stolen BTC is even true in the first place? that's a big assumption given the history of the OP.
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Alpha is still lying to their customers "This is not the case, our terms clearly present our shipping dates as targets and not guarantees. We are of course as regretful of this delay as you are as such we are trying to do whatever we can afford to do to make up for it and at the moment it looks like loyalty bonus payments is the best way." https://forum.alpha-t.net/index.php?topic=1003.75but: "Shipping Booked shipments will be delivered within Q2/Q3 of Year 2014. Live updates shall be provided on exact shipping date. Shipping is worldwide." http://www.abunchacrap.com/Alpha01052014/AlphaTerms010520141.htmlNo word of beeing a "target". As stated in their T&C Alphanoobs even provided this exact shipping date with their update on 20th June: https://alpha-t.net/news/viper-update-20062014/"We will also be releasing a full guide on how to use the miners both with the WebGUI and without it before shipment (which will begin somewhere from the 15th-31st of July). " Of course it's bullshit. those are good sources. He also referred to September in a coindesk article http://www.coindesk.com/alpha-technology-blames-paypal-dispute-bitcoin-asic-delivery-delay/"Speaking to CoinDesk, Akram said that the company had the necessary funds to ship all the hardware its customers had ordered, and that its initial terms of sale stated products might not ship until the end of Q3 (September)" and in an update that went out via e-mail and on their site https://alpha-t.net/news/development-update-28072014/"In the interest of there being no confusion, July while it was our genuine expectation, is not mentioned in our terms. As a result of this we have decided to announce shipping to be September as per our terms" They've missed their date(s). The promised July and missed that. The hard date was September as per their own update and they've missed that also. They can argue it but it's going nowhere, as their own words today contradict their own words yesterday. None of that about delivery dates changes the basic premise, however, that they are in violation of consumer laws. The DSR does apply, whether they'd like it to or not, and that really is the end of it. They can try that BS about B2B sales to try to say that consumers are not consumers, but they never said that ahead of time which is, in itself, seemingly a material omission of fact and therefore in violation of yet another law which prohibits just such an action. hell common sense says you can't do something like that after the fact. that they are obviously doing it to try to strip consumers of their rights won't likely play well with the courts either. anyone that wants their money back has a clear shot, IMO. I'm not saying it will be easy and that there won't be pushback, but the facts and the law seem to be squarely on the side of the consumer on this and I think they well know it. |
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They can say whatever they want, simple fact is Blackarrow and Minersource is breaking the law by not sending refunds that are requested for a months delayed product.Minersource even told me I would get a refund months ago then suddenly they mailed "We are now shipping products and are unable to send refunds" WTF that doesn't even make sense  BTW SimonBeCoinin they don't own ecointalk they just moderate a small subforum. Hi. Actually I think they do own it. I thought I'd remembered seeing a thread about it early on. When they started deleting posts, people were asking. http://ecointalk.net/topic/1002-who-owns-this-forum/It wouldn't surprise me if they bought it. Anything to control the information with these people. at this it seems to me they are trying to shut down discussion as much as possible. labeling simple discussion as abusive or threatening so they can justify deletion. It is similar to the false logic they used to censor people on this forum, by declaring them to be paid by competitors to post, without any evidence of that and then deleting those peoples' posts based on that logic. construct a framework to disallow something and them jam things through that framework when it suits. it's an interesting methodology when you think about it. In this case they said abusive or threatening behavior would be censored/deleted on that forum. Now let's label anything we don't want discussed any further, such as these fires, as abusive or threatening. now it must be deleted. and that's how you do the BA information control dance. |
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