http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/minion-2-scrypt.html10% of profits from Minion 2 (Scrypt) $500,000.00 Availability:In Stock Quantity: Add to wish list Description This purchases 10% of all profits generated for Black Arrow by the Minion 2 (Scrypt) Black Arrow has completed the design of a energy efficient Scrypt ASIC and it is ready for tape-out. ASICs can be received in early December if taped out in September. This purchase includes investment in the tapeout and in the first batch of ASICs. The exact number of wafers that we will purchase will be disclosed in the contract. We are currently looking for joint venture partners. This product is for business purposes only and can be only purchased by legal entities. Status of the project: Ready to tapeout immediately. We will tape out as soon as we have sold 50% of the profit shares. Speed: confidential Efficiency: 3 Watt/Mhash/Second (chip level) Specifications: Node process: 28nm Package: QFN Clock: Confidential Voltage: Confidential Cores: Confidential RAM: included in the chip The integrated ASIC supports internal commands for over-clocking and under-clocking, it features an improved manager than our BTC chip, supports input and output queue, various GPIO, chain and paralel SPI Terms: Non-Refundable, unless: 1. contract not agreed by the customer within 5 days of payment. 2. project will be cancelled only if we have not sold 50% of the profits before before 31 Dec 2014. If cancelled, we will charge the customer 5% and return 95% of the funds. Although all efforts have been made to produce a flawless chip, this is not yet silicon proven and is considered not qualified. There is a risk involved to manufacture this chip as this chip is going to be taped out without MPW test. Should it fail, we will need more investment and about 4 months to fix it. The chances of failure are low but they exist. This is a “Risk Buy”. The Customer accepts all responsibility for the performance of the Prototype(s), and waives all rights to reschedule or cancel purchase order, and waives the right to return defective units. To complete this order, please pay minimum 5% of your order first. After payment we will send the NDA and full contract. Should you not agree with the contract, we will cancel your order and refund the funds received by us in full. It just gets funnier by the day. send us money. if we cancel the project we keep 5%. the chip might not work and that's on you, even though we designed it. don't worry the last group of people to trust us with their money all did great. just check our forum or bitcointalk! just know that our fanclub has a funny way of showing their love. they act like they all lost money. they'll say we didn't keep our word on anything and cannot be trusted. But that's because they're all pranksters. crazy kids. now send us your money.
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OK... seems they finnaly got it: Sorry --------, you are banned from using this forum!
This ban is not set to expire.
It took more than a week, for them to realize that i got charged back my mastercard....  don't despair  , there's not that much to see on that forum. only update is the claim that they are still on track for Sept delivery, but no word on tapeout/packaging of the ASICS. That Sept shipping date seems outright impossible at this point. and nothing on the 'stock offering' it's a serious cricket choir going on. there should be a flurry of activity and there's nothing but the claim they're on track. No pics of components, no updates on boards, chips, psu's. zip. It looks to me like these guys are going to do the el-foldo. If a product actually ships, ever, I'll be shocked to the core. |
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What is the chance that Alpha-T will be upping their 30% offer to 49% at the end of September after they announce more development delays ?
Eventually they will just give 100% of the company to the customers. I mean its practically worthless. I wish all companies acted this childish. AT is pretty much saying stop telling us what to do. If you think it's easy to run a company, here... you figure it out. it's a lot easier when you're not digging out of a hole, producing an already obsolete product, your company is bleeding money and customers are suing your ass off. so, I for one am glad Mubasher is the swashbuckling genius he says he is, cause no-one else could possibly pull this shit off! |
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I've seen consumer alerts on the Consumer Council's site for companies with 70 complaints. I do not see Black Arrow listed.
is it possible that not even 70 people filed a complaint against Black arrow after all of their actions against customers and all of this time.
the council does take action, will visit the business if it does not respond, and has legal actions at it's disposal, but they're not going to do much if people don't actually let them know there is a problem.
stop waiting for 'someone else'
they're fucking YOU. do something about it.
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Guys, I have some good news. I ordered a chargeback with American express on the preorder amount and I won. I am currently proceeding with a money claim to recoup the rest of the money I paid for the order. I really advise everyone to do it, we will have a lot more weight if a lot of people do claims. https://www.moneyclaim.gov.ukThey missed their target shipping date of the 31st of July by far. We have clearly a case to get our money back. In my case, they even cancelled my order against my will. Cool. It's good to see some people taking action and getting their money back. |
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People that have filed with the consumer council should follow up with the cc if they have not gotten a reply.
people need to speak up to let them know that their case is still relevant.
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I wish people with court cases pending luck.
I'm just wondering how easy it will be to enforce payment, if you guys win in court. If they fail to pay, you can reapply to court to get a bailiff's warrant to seize goods, but even then, if the bailiffs can't find any goods to seize, you aren't going to get your money.
One possibility to consider is making a petition for involuntary bankruptcy against the company. There is a court fee of £750 (a group of credits can split the costs amongst themselves) and you will need to prove a debt exists (if you've already got a court judgement which is unpaid after 28 days, then this is good proof). If a bankruptcy order is given, the court will appoint a liquidator to seize the company's assets and bank accounts. Even if you don't get your money, because none is left, being a director of a bankrupt company brings personal penalties. One of which is a ban from working or seeking work as an accountant....
You can apply for a "Third Party Debt Order" and have the court freeze their bank accounts. The money will be withdrawn from the account to cover the debt. Or you could apply for a "Charging Order" which will mean any assets they sell will go to pay off the debt. So when they sell an ASIC that money will go to you. Obviously they have to have money in the bank account, assets to sell and still be around for any of this to work. yep or file on Mubasher personally to help him find his checkbook. |
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time is btc and everybody wants some, maybe someone will
sell me a 1 month summary for 0.5 btc ??
X1s are trickling out to customers who ordered from BA, at about the rate of 1 per day. X3s don't appear to be shipping at all yet. that pretty much sums it up. both systems are trickling out, there is seemingly no order to shipments relative to your payment or shipment date, no further update on compensation or when that will ship, they've decided to try to fuck everyone that they had formerly promised refunds to. So, nothing has changed, basically. |
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well they must have gotten my complaint from the Hong Kong consumer council.
locked out of my account. resetting the password does no good.
I already copied out the support dialogue, but nice try. each and every snippet going back months, packaged in a neat little pdf file.
putzes.
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somewhat of a legal question here, and I know you guys arent lawyers but its something that i think needs brought up. For the people still waiting to hear about the shares deal, what happens if they somehow do pull off a miracle and ship devices before the end of September, but prior to offering you shares or doing anything to move that forward?
If they ship them and you accept it prior to getting shares, is that technically the conculsion of the original contract you signed (which included nothing about share offerings)? Couldnt they then just not offer shares and claim the original contractual obligations were met? I understand that offering shares in a company is something that takes months worth of time, but their lack of transparency in this endevour makes me think they are just trying to bide their time. They could at least be releasing a road map, timeline, companies they are working with for audits, etc.
I'm not holding out for the shares, but i know there are people who are and this could be another way alpha sticks it to their customers.
well, that's unclear. As you indicate, I'm not a lawyer, but I think it can be seen both ways. two lawyers on opposite sides of the table could argue either side, I think. they have made the promise to offer shares, so could someone push it? I suppose. How much would it cost to litigate that and is it worth it? what will the shares be worth? next to nothing is my guess, although I don't know and we won't until, and if, Alpha puts out the value of the company. normally this would be SOP when issuing a prospectus, but I personally think Mubasher is a moron that is too clever by half and simply doesn't realize he's not as smart or clever as he thinks he is, so he will try to get by without offering solid information and leave himself enough wiggle room to screw people even if they do receive stock. I also think this is unlikely to even get that far. I wouldn't assume it will be case and therefore base a decision on what may be if some best case scenario unfolds and this miraculously works out. Base your decision on the facts you have now. What we do know is that this team looks shaky. Inside people have been jumping off the ship instead of onto it. If they thought the company was worth staying with, I think they'd have stayed with it. They had much more to gain than any of us and bailed while distancing themselves as much as possible. Ask yourself if you would buy shares in this company, as that's the real question to ask. I know I wouldn't on a dare. IMO, they're outgunned in their market talent-wise, their launch is in the toilet, their miners are losers before they ship, their name is trashed in the marketplace, GAW and KNC have left them in the dust. the bleeding will continue with respect to refunds to people via credit cards or the court system and the legal bills will start to pile up with no new source of revenue to offset any of it. So, I think they're dead already, but maybe just don't know it. They're accountants, and I'd love to see the cash flow statement right now, accounting for some of this and projecting out 6 months or so. it's gotten pretty quiet over there and I have no doubt they've run their scenarios and I doubt it's looking particularly good. From a valuation perspective I think their value as a business is likely falling like a rock as we speak. people are better off, IMO, in pulling out all the stops to get their money back now. that fight looks easier to me than litigating stock options, even if you have to take it to the court system to get your refund. so, if there are people holding out for shares, they might want to rethink that. Just my opinion, of course. |
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I'll bet they renege on that promise, too - just like they're refusing refunds that they promised in March and April. They're out of money, because they spent it all to buy parts.
They'll probably give you 10% off their new scrypt miner, though, whose development they financed with our pre-order money.
I don't believe they're out of money. They had issues with components, fine. But that does not assure huge cost over-runs, unless they were stupid enough to buy all the backplanes, ASICS etc. without testing them, then that's their problem. They said repeatedly that they funded most of this from sources other than pre-orders anyhow. Based on the history of Alex Sovu, I believe they are simply making every attempt to keep the money, not that they do not have it. Money could also have been paid out to investors already and that's why they are out of money. That's their problem if that's the case, which they are trying to make ours. Who knows where the money went, but I'm not buying their story that it all went to build parts. Could they refund everyone that wants a refund at this point? Probably not, because that would be everyone, but there is money there, I have no doubt. They know if they start issuing refunds there will be a run on the bank so they're trying to screw everyone instead. |
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The machines are already worth virtually nothing even if delivered today. They have a 0% chance of RoI. A month from now, the hash they produce won't even pay for the "supposed" 300w power usage. Odds they will deliver within 5 weeks? 0. They just can't pull it off that fast, they are MONTHS behind schedule, not weeks. They outsourced everything... EVERYTHING and "hoped for the best".
Unfortunately, I paid in full... because of the threats that I'd lose my deposit if I didn't. I also paid both in bitcoin. Odds of me seeing Any of that money back? 0. Could I win a lawsuit? 99% chance. Would I be able to collect on that judgement? Not a chance. If they find a way to actually produce a product, they would declare bankruptcy to wipe out their debts, sell their business to themselves, and create a new company with no debt and a working product. Seen it too many times. That's also how they would "stop the business from being in existence" to wipe out your shares. If it were even legal for them to give you shares to begin with.
Never risk more than you can afford to lose: and I didn't. I've taken a number of risky crypto based investments, and I lost about the same as I've gained in the last 8 months. Might have lost a couple hundred, but not that big of a deal. This... I've written off as a 100% loss. But... I've gained knowledge and wisdom. Don't buy something that doesn't exist. Don't buy ASICs EVER. There's simply no way to make your investment back, simply based on the quantity these multiple companies are producing. No matter what the speed is, if a company sells 10,000+ units of some Super Asic, the difficulty will rise so high that even the super Asics no longer makes it's cost back, Ever. It's guaranteed self-obsolescence.
you could hire a debt collection service that gets nothing if you don't. just a thought... i hired one and they came back to me saying they tried some phone lines and asked around and could not get in touch with them so they closed my case without any charge to me as they were unable to collect. wasn't a great moment for me when i read that. that sucks. I think it's a requirement that they have to have a phone line though, so it could be added to your evidence. people are filing through the small claims system also. there are instructions on this thread and here: http://www.abunchacrap.com/Alpha01052014/atindex.htmlI don't know how much $ you've got into them. If it's a few hundred, maybe it's not worth the trouble, and it's your call naturally. I just hate these pre-order Ponzi schemes and hate to see people bilked out of their money. As indicated in my original post, I'm also pissed at Alpha for running me in circles, so I'm happy to help people find help if I can. |
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People should also realize that they can likely file in small claims court in their own state against minersource, or black arrow for that matter. a judgement against BA would be difficult to enforce, probably, although one against MS is a slightly different story, I would think think. Are they going to fly their lawyers in? Maybe. Then again maybe not. Depending on what they owe people it's an option I'd look into if I'd bought from them and they were giving me the runaround. http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/small-claims-book/chapter9-2.html |
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The machines are already worth virtually nothing even if delivered today. They have a 0% chance of RoI. A month from now, the hash they produce won't even pay for the "supposed" 300w power usage. Odds they will deliver within 5 weeks? 0. They just can't pull it off that fast, they are MONTHS behind schedule, not weeks. They outsourced everything... EVERYTHING and "hoped for the best".
Unfortunately, I paid in full... because of the threats that I'd lose my deposit if I didn't. I also paid both in bitcoin. Odds of me seeing Any of that money back? 0. Could I win a lawsuit? 99% chance. Would I be able to collect on that judgement? Not a chance. If they find a way to actually produce a product, they would declare bankruptcy to wipe out their debts, sell their business to themselves, and create a new company with no debt and a working product. Seen it too many times. That's also how they would "stop the business from being in existence" to wipe out your shares. If it were even legal for them to give you shares to begin with.
Never risk more than you can afford to lose: and I didn't. I've taken a number of risky crypto based investments, and I lost about the same as I've gained in the last 8 months. Might have lost a couple hundred, but not that big of a deal. This... I've written off as a 100% loss. But... I've gained knowledge and wisdom. Don't buy something that doesn't exist. Don't buy ASICs EVER. There's simply no way to make your investment back, simply based on the quantity these multiple companies are producing. No matter what the speed is, if a company sells 10,000+ units of some Super Asic, the difficulty will rise so high that even the super Asics no longer makes it's cost back, Ever. It's guaranteed self-obsolescence.
you could hire a debt collection service that gets nothing if you don't. just a thought... |
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i need that machine next month.
no more delays
no more excuses
4 weeks and 1 day until the magic fairy deadline. (didn't they say mid-september though?) Reversing the numbers: Figure 2 weeks for assembly, workup Q&A and completion of batch shipping; 1 week for testing final chips and power systems, based on how other places have been operating. Their last noticeable update was that they had almost finished case design, almost finished the supplimentary and accessory PCB's, and none of the software was ready. Lots of almosts there. I almost won the lottery last week. They have, what, 1,200 or 2,500 systems for first batch? Initially they opened it up to 1,200 iirc, but then opened it up for more funding sales and left it open for a month. So: At 15 minutes per machine to assemble and test basic operation to warm temps, 4 machines an hour, 40 machines in a 10 hour work day for 1 person with no breaks. 20 business days * 40 = 800 machines. So a workforce of 2-3 would suffice to cover the assembly, testing and shipping. This all hinges on the following items being ready and in their hands within the next 7 days: * Shipping material, label printer * Completed chips * Final cases * Final PCB's for everything * All wires / tidbits * PSU's Perhaps they already have most of that, and most of it is assembled! Tick-tock goes that clock.. Are they pre-paying customs fees? I can't recall. That'll add a nice chunk of money to people's bills. I doubt they get this done. As you say, what was the last update? Shouldn't we be hearing about tapeout, ASIC packaging, component delivery, assembly line establishment etc.? If they were getting set up, we'd be hearing about that progress, I think. And still nothing new on their 'stock offer' I'm also watching people pull their money successfully and am starting to wonder if they're simply going to declare bankruptcy to stave off the lawsuits. They're accountants, if I recall, so they'll understand how to work the numbers up on that, I would imagine. There should be progress updates, there should be news on their customer stock offer or whatever, and there's nothing, as far as I know. I've also seen enough of these pre-order/development projects to know that no news is usually bad news. Odds they just go belly up and ship zilch are looking pretty good to me right now. Odds they ship all orders by end of Sept look to me to be zero. |
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Is this address from the website remotely legit?
5A03, Building 1, Huangduguangchang, Yitian Road, Futian District, Shenzhen, Guangdong, P. R. China, Postcode: 518048
Reason I'm asking is that I'm going to send out a batch of complaints shortly to every relevant jurisdiction, and it has come to my attention that Shenzhen has had some pretty strong consumer protection laws since early 2013, and if they receive a significant number of complaints, the city itself has the authority to bring suit against them in the interest of consumers. Shenzhen is not some third-world backwater with no consequences.
There might even be some delightful surprises, for example wouldn't it be a shocker if say we were to find out that this operation isn't even properly licensed?
I think it probably is correct, but please keep us posted if you come up with solid info. |
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Well, I got my $ back from Amex and already bought 50KH hosted Hashlet from GAW for $799 - $10 coupon.
Cant say I miss Alpha, but still waiting on Terrahash refund. lol
The air is coming out of that balloon in a hurry. lol. good for you on getting your $ back from these guys. I hate these pre-order scams and these companies that try to jam it to people. anything that contributes to the end of that business model is good for cryptos, far as I'm concerned. |
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Please don't speculate. we will issue a statement soon. until then no questions, and all posts not loving us will be deleted.  |
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Yep, do it right now. Stop listening to the noise coming out of Alpha and take action immediately. Even if these do show up in September, which I doubt, they are likely losers. If you want to see your money, you'll have to do something and the sooner the better. You don't want to end up at the end of the line on this one. |
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What is the path of least damage at this point?
A. Take the comp ASICs and sell them (where the hell would I sell them, who would buy them?)
B. Wait and pray for BA to do something like ship the X3 and give a good scrypt miner as comp (hoping they used the x-1 x-3 to learn to do this and now at least have some clue and won't be a year late on that)
C. Ask for a refund, never get miner, never get refund (I'm assuming this is what happens if you ask for one) Any case of anyone getting a refund? I have plenty of free hours with an attorney that I can use but I don't want to blow them if "them being in china" means I'll still never get my money back.
And to think, I can remember a time when I was worried about letting BA do the 5 day hosting because the extra shipping delay might cut into my ability for ROI.
I didn't need that $5k so much then, but with things that happened since, that profit (fuck,..breaking even) and having that money would be a life changer.
(sigh)
Hope you'll get atleast something this year.. I opted for option C, bought from MS. their product was/is delayed way to far past the original communicated shipment date minersource and blackarrow is obliged to send customers a refund. They even agreed to send me a refund months ago and I'm still waiting. How both companies still exist and no one is jailed is beyond me.  Minersource do the right thing and send those refunds ASAP! You can't just keep playing with peoples money and get away with it.People need to organize and step up. It seems that everyone wants someone else to do something and are unwilling to take action themselves. You might lose, although at this point, I don't care if I do. What's the return on an X-3 right now? a couple thousand dollars if you're lucky? to me it makes more sense to file and fight for a refund. I know not everyone agrees with that, and that is their right, of course, although I don't see getting much out of the miners themselves at this point. I don't believe they don't have the money. I do believe they're counting on nobody doing a damn thing. assuming these miners operate long term, which is a huge if based on what we're seeing so far, you're looking at what a couple/few BTC. paying power, screwing around with hosting, etc., etc.. I'm saying screw it and filing with the consumer council and contacting attorneys, as it seems BA is simply ignoring the CC anyhow, so something will have to be done formally. |
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