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...what is the likely outcome of a successful complaint? It seems very possible to me that it'd be a big seizure of all computers, encryption keys and bank accounts then turned over to a team of forensic accountants. People with real money deposits would probably get their money back after an extended period, but it seems quite possible everyones BTC would be gone forever or at least held up indefinapermanently.
Ouch, I better get my shit out of MtGox soon. I don't have much time. Once those government clowns get "involved" everything will be tied up for years!  |
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JARED- YOU NEED TO READ THIS NOW! http://www.smh.com.au/business/economists-shortchange-the-benefits-of-capital-controls-20110624-1gjnb.htmlThis article was written by the former finance minister of Chile. it is in favor of capital controls and alludes to the development of the IMF's changing position on capital controls. They very well may be laying the ground work for complete government regulation of all private money flows into or out of Chile. I know that's where your servers are. If capital controls are implemented, they could very well shut down you entire exchange. Worst case scenario they nationalize (steal) everything. Down with those Lying Cocksucking Bankers!  |
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Does anyone know if they (the EU) already have trigger-happy dogs with cash-sniffing pigs (oopsie, reverse that) partolling the airports and train/bus stations, like in the good ol' USofA?
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I got some dehydrated food, some silver, and my first Bitcoin miner arrives on Monday. I'm ready for the Apocalypse. Let the p2p revolution begin! Send these greedy bankers packing! REMEMBER THE ALAMO!!!!... Actually, I don't care about the Alamo. I'm in California!  Actually, no. Remember A.Lamo |
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...still claimed Social Security and Medicare to her dying day. Truly a case where her actions spoke louder than her words.
You'd be a cretin not to grab some C-notes whenever Tony Soprano drops a pile on the ground without noticing. |
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Lol, I don't do drugs  . And if I did I wouldn't buy them from silk road.  Maybe if they had invented Zoloft back then is a more plausible sollution than BTC preventing the holocaust. I mean seriously. Bitcoin wouldn't have prevented paintings, jewelry, real estate, and many other things from being confiscated. It just makes you look not only ignorant of BitCoin, but really shows you have absolutely no knowledge of what the holocaust entailed. Actually yes, inflation played a significant part in the rise of Third Reich. So having access to non-inflationary common currency could've prevented a lot of misery. |
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John N -- you've got great insights into the world of finance & trading it seems.
So please help us wrest control of money away from the elites (AKA power hungry bloodthirsty homicidal maniacs).
Bitcoin seems to be the only solution to this persistent problem.
Got anything better? Any other ideas?
You're thinking of Bitcoin as the modern equivalent of "the free and unlimited coinage of silver". (Read up on the Free Silver movement.) That was a different problem, though. That period had a growing economy with a fixed money supply tied to gold. The result was severe deflation. That's not the problem in the current US economy. I wasn't clear enough, it seems that the Free Silver Movement was interested in inflation, legislative control and dictating the monetary policy to its liking. I'm quite the opposite. At this point in time, every nation-state has a central bank backed by a ruthless punitive apparatus, in order to enforce its monopoly on money (medium of exchange & store of value) on its subjects. Bitcoin seems to be the only thing that could drive those central banks into obscurity if possible, or destroy if necessary. By enabling common folks to interact with each other without the overlords. Globally accepted, non-inflationary, free of customs controls, ruled by no one -- it's a thing of beauty! |
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I wouldn't be in equities if you paid me, because the dollar is about to keel over and die a horrible death. Good luck moving anything out of that deathtrap once it collapses.
That goes for standard banks too, I wouldn't have anything in there you aren't prepared to lose. Because when it happens, you better believe they'll clamp down on anyone pulling out any funds at all.
John N -- you've got great insights into the world of finance & trading it seems. So please help us wrest control of money away from the elites (AKA powerhungry bloodthirsty homocidal maniacs). Bitcoin seems to be the only solution to this persitent problem. Got anything better? Any other ideas?"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws." -Baron Rothschild P.S. No one would help the poor, freshly robbed & hunted european jew in the late 30's. Now, a jew with coins stashed offshore, which the "authorities" couldn't confiscate -- was a very different story. |
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I'd consider 30$ the more ridiculous number out of the two.
there is no economy to speak of already, and the money supply grows by another 40% within the year alone.
the 2,6 million coins that are mined in a year equal 80 million dollars at 30$.
that means 80 million dollars have to come in to SUSTAIN this price!
(or miners don't sell as many, but that only means they expect to sell it for even more in the future).
I like the bitcoin concept and all this specuation doesn't make it worse, but I'm sorry, this is insanity.
Bitcoin seems to be the first currency in history that offers both privacy and portability across police state borders. When people realize its true potential they covet it. (Notice the bloke above who is divesting gold and silver to own bitcoin.) This appears to be a real phenomenon. And it's just getting started. Unfortunately, bitcoin will probably suffer the same fate as gold, silver, (and goldmoney), and that is that the commodity itself is so precious that it is hoarded instead of traded. Why get rid of bitcoins (or gold, silver) when one can part with funny colored paper whose value is yanked around by crooks? (real money crowds out bad) Gresham's law, sure. But no worries mate, people gotta eat sometimes and buy themselves nice things, so good money (bitcoin) will be circulating. |
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There are major conflict of interest issues with an exchange that itself is a trader. A real exchange doesn't care what the price is. They just make money on transactions. There's no way they can lose big. The same is true of brokerages. (Mt. Gox is both, because it holds customer funds.) It's so tempting for brokerages to trade for their own account. Historically, this is a bad thing; many brokerages have collapsed doing that. It's also possible for brokerages to cheat their customers in many ways. One is "front-running". A player who passes along orders can insert their own orders into the stream. All they have to do to make money consistently is to occasionally put in their own matching "buy" order when someone sends in a "sell" above the last price, and fill their own order first. Conversely, they can put in a "sell" on a downtick. The edge from that information advantage is enough to insure profits in a volatile market. Another is failing to segregate customer funds from the brokerage's own funds. Legitimate brokers are required to do this. (Banks are not, which is why banks are so heavily regulated.) If funds are segregated, and the brokerage goes bust, the customer's funds are still there. Failure to segregate funds usually means the broker is speculating with the customer's money. Mt. Gox is opaque enough that we don't know if they're co-mingling funds. This is why I strongly suggest not keeping funds with Bitcoin "exchanges". Move out all balances daily. Trade if you like, but don't use an exchange as a bank. They're acting as banks, or at least non-bank depository institutions, but they don't have the regulation or auditing required to hold the funds of others. Wow, some heavy shit here! Great insight into exchange operations, thanks dude. But what can we do -- we want this anonymous decentralized non-govt-controlled currency to succeed, and I don't see a choice, other than having to deal with crooks along the way?  |
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Yes, I think the biggest fear they have is the fact that gold has been used as money for centuries. With that being said, gold gains a significant increase in value. Also for centuries mankind has used gold to show off wealth in the form of jewelry. The other major use of gold is to produce coins or bars which is obviously used for investing. The reason people invest it/hoard it is simply because at one point it was used as money.
If this idea that gold is money is ever put at jeopardy then guess what happens to the value of gold? Falls off a cliff. Bitcoin puts seep competition against gold because lets face it, bitcoins are finite, difficult to obtain, and easier to transfer than gold.
Just to put it into perspective: Bitcoin is the cubic zirconia of the diamond industry. Why buy a real diamond when you can buy a zirconia diamond at a fraction of the cost?
The only real uses for gold are in the dental industry, electronics industry and scientific industry which only consume about 10% of the mined production. The rest goes into investments or jewelry. Most of the world entire history of mined gold is still in existence (ie. not thrown away). This is because most of it is recycled.
I didnt mean to say gold will become worthless because of bitcoin, or that bitcoin > gold. (in fact, I still believe it is far less likely that bitcoin will be adopted as a widespread form of payment than gold will "fall off a cliff") I just dont see the rivalry. one has nothing to do with the other, gold wont be used for trade again. You have to understand there is a major correlation. The reason gold trades at the value it does is primarily because people place a value on it. In most parts of the world gold is the symbol of wealth and money. It is the stuff of kings and empires. There is a huge value being placed on gold for those qualities. BUT that value ONLY exists if people think that gold = wealth. If that idea is ever lost, then gold will be like just any other metal and will trade primarily at the value placed on it by industrial consumers. Yeah, I expect to see, given the bitcoin, that in not too distant future gold would be valued close to say, silver. They have similar metalic qualities (ok, silver rusts, but has additional medicinal value). And there is a lot more above-ground gold in the world than there is silver! |
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Seems like a cool dude with many great ideas.
His sticky points seem to be gold and more visibly (with multiple mentions) last week's Mt.Gox hack(s), viruses/virii, etc.
I attribute the first one to old habbits and the latter one -- to insufficient tech understanding of the network.
Pros:
"More and more people are on the Internet these days. We’ve both seen villagers in Africa with smart phones. It won’t be long before most everybody has one. Anyone with Internet access can arguably deal in Bitcoins, so they could potentially be very convenient to use. That’s a lot more people than the number who will take, say, Russian rubles, Zambian kwacha, or Vietnamese dong.
Doug: I like the fact it’s untraceable and secret. I like the idea that it was trying to be an alternative to the dollar; it’s great to see people trying to get out of the U.S. dollar. The dollar is a state monopoly of the worst kind.
The U.S. dollar has actually become a major weapon in the hands of the U.S. government now. All bank transactions go through the U.S. SWIFT system. Even the Chinese and Russians, who have no love for the U.S. government, have to use dollars for international trade. They don’t like it. Muslims all around the world are coming to feel that they are enemies of the United States, so they don’t want to use the dollar either. And the more regulations the U.S. puts in place about how money is transferred and used – like FATCA – the harder people will look for alternatives. The U.S. government is treating everyone’s dollars as its personal property."
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Personally I think a proactive approach to countering claims made by those two senators is a good thing. I am glad someone did it.
My point was that this thread was about the malicious trade and not about Tux's letter to the DEA.
But I see you like to twist words and sentences out of their original context, good luck with that, but I have got better things to do.
What letter? The Goxmeister is bringing in the DEA now?!! This guy is a loose cannon. First he gives away the customer database and passwords, and now he's bringing in the DEA??? Whisky tango foxtrot. I want to see that letter! Here you go bro: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=17693.0;all |
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Brute forcing is so much more possible now-a-days due to GPUs, but Brute forcing SHOULD also be impossible because any site worth a shit should be locking out after 5 or so failed attempts (personally I think 10 is plenty, it gives you a couple attempts to realize "oh wait I'm typing the wrong password, not typing it wrong, then a couple more to figure out which password you used)
Bruteforcing won't work that way, just post sending random values till something matches, this is too limited due to traffic. MD5 Hashes have to be leaked first, they get brutefroced and THEN the plain passwords can be used to login Makes sense. As part of preparation for a new password database leak they wanna ensure that only GPU-farmers will be unhashing stolen passwords. |
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Ok, so....BTC. Intrinsic value or use value? Or something else? Novelty value? It certainly has functional value does it not?
BTC has no use value, outside of the context of a medium of exchange. BTC is both the currency and an effective, worldwide, transfer mechanism. Just like gold's intrinsic value is rooted in it's properties that make it an ideal money, BTC's intrinsic value rests in the properties imbued into it by powerful cryptology and rigid code practices. If you love gold and understand it, then you will love bitcoin for nearly the exact same reasons, as they share most of the same properties of a good medium of exchange. There are an amazing number of people (particularly on youtube) who love gold/silver and *hate* bitcoin, which shows a deep rift in their understanding. WTF is intrinsic value?! I hate it when Schiff is talking nonsense like that -- intrinsic value. Great analogy with seashells, libertyzeal. Yeah sure, gold silver & lead are solid investments in my book. Are those goldbugs way too old to understand P2P, I wonder? And bitcoin is way more attractive when it comes to capital controls. |
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Where is the option for "Myself"?
oh, right. I should have thought of a voting option for the libertarians. NEVER forget about the Librarians on this site. That's Cardinal Sin #1. Whose Mt. Gox? Who's Jesus? |
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Yup, another reason to keep some wealth "offshore", even (or especially) in bitcoins. Or people think the US Govt will be this nice forever? |
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Mt Gox & Britcoin have sold out to The Big Brother
You should change the topic to "Mt Gox & Britcoin make themself ready for serious-businesses to adapt bitcoin" That article is excellent news for bitcoin. Oh, silly me. You put my mind at ease. You mean to say that me worrying sick about yet another piece of evidence of this encroachment of fascism and M-Tux becoming a Konzentrationslager kapo, was all for nothing? |
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So hoping for the best, I'm still not happy about quotes like this one:
He said that while the system had been built to be anonymous, it was "really easy to track Bitcoins across the network."
...most Bitcoin transactions flowed through Mt Gox, it was "much easier to see how the funds were cashed out, and locate the final target if there was need."
Why the hell did he tell them that?
Now he's on the hook to deliver the goods.
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1Mh/s on a laptop in some pool didn't make me rich just yet. I gotta start pushing "how to become rich and wealthy btc miner" seminars instead, me thinks. |
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