Free market competition is wasteful by definition because effective competition always requires some duplication of work before the winner emerges and specialization can occur.
It's less wasteful than central planning in most cases, but it's still wasteful.
Indeed. Urbanist thinker Jane Jacobs argued that duplication and waste is a highly important part of development work. She argued that small firms breaking off of old firms to pursue new ideas are how we get new, innovative ideas, goods and services. This process only works if there is a lot of "wasted" work being done in small, inefficient workshops, labs, etc. that fail more often than they succeed. She argues that this is one of the defining features and advantages of urban life. Cities provide an intense concentration of small businesses to support development work, and intense concentrations of people bumping into one another, creating networks, and constantly searching for new ways to build, assemble, conserve, deliver, etc, to meet one another's needs. I'd argue that this exact process is going on with the development work springing up around Bitcoin. There's a lot of "wasteful" duplication going on in the bitcoin economy. It's being developed by small groups of highly competent, enthusiastic individuals. Much of this work will fail, but its this exact process of creation and discovery that expands an economy. More here |
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I've got more than I can spend right now. I'm not hoarding them as a speculative investment but rather because opportunities for buying things I want are still limited.
This is what I think is going on! If you think too many people are hoarding, then offer a compelling service or attractive goods for sale that will compel them to spend! The other way to look at this is that there is nothing worthwhile to spend bitcoins on, so people hold on to them passively, without really thinking about it. |
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Received mine today! Thanks a bunch!!!  |
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Bummer... I'll be out of town. Will see Portland Bitcoin people at the next one, hopefully!
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The sort of war we should expect on US soil will likely be 4th Generation warfare; likely civil war as the remnants of the US Empire start seceding from one another. Such a war would likely be one of secessionists against federal troops. In some cases, you'll have a rebel city breaking away. (Remember that the Revolutionary War had only minority support in the beginning, something like 10%.) In such a scenario, expect organizations of the Hezbollah model running the show. They'll have a vested interest in maintaining the creature comforts of modern life, or be faced with some unhappy citizens. The vast majority of Americans will go with whoever keeps them comfortable. So maintaining cable TV, water, sewer and INTERNET connections will be paramount. I'd think such a rebel organization would want to build a mesh network throughout the city with multiple satellite connections so as the network remained as decentralized as possible. If not, and the enemy knocks out the internet, who cares? A city in the middle of a low intensity conflict (look at Baghdad following the toppling of Saddam) will have a lot of other shit on their plate. But even then, I'm sure SOMEONE will be able maintain an internet connection, somehow, providing a link to the Bitcoin network and allowing for the exchange of money. This would probably fall under the control of the local Hezbollah-like militia. It would simply be another one of the services they provide (along with social services, city works, death to the enemy, etc.)
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volume is low because price is stable with no large price movements.
Maybe all the newbie speculators bailed, too? I'm rather enjoying this stable price, especially since I'm buying and selling goods and services instead of day trading. |
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Obviously, bitcoin does nothing to prevent banks from doing what they have always been doing. A lot of clueless people think Bitcoin is a "libertarian solution" to life's economic woes (ironically, this last 9 years up to 2009 have been a classic example of how libertarian economic policy, e.g. deregulating everything, is a horrible idea resulting in speculative bubbles, just like bitcoin's current price is a speculative bubble).
On the contrary, I think it was the government's hand in the market that caused speculative bubbles. Specifically I'm talking about subsidization of home loans through the tax code, and manipulation of money supply/interest rates that lead to a lot of people buying houses they otherwise could not have afforded. The government, if anything, failed to regulate the natural consequences of its own actions. |
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I have 4 more of these invites available. For my previous thread, with confirmed sales, go here: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=18615.0Thanks! World of the Living DeadSelling invites to this MMO Browser Based game for 0.10BTC. I have 4 invites available. It is currently in beta and closed to invite only! PM me for details. I'll send you my address, you send BTC and your email address, then I'll send the invite. I have one successful trade with a positive rating on bitcoin-otc under Mad_Vinnie here: http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratings.phpI've been playing this game for the past 3 months and its a ton of fun! The game progress pretty close to real time, so how much time you spend keeping your survivors alive and cracking zombie skulls depends on how many survivors you choose to have. Slowly build your characters, gather resources, weapons and upgrads, make war on your neighbors, scout LA County, join a faction, fight other factions.... tons of fun! About World of the Living Dead ------------------------------ World of the Living Dead is a free survival strategy zombie browser game. As operatives of the National Emergency Control and Relief Agency (NECRA) sealed in secure locations, players must guide their small group of survivors through the zombie-filled streets of over twelve thousand square kilometers of Los Angeles County, competing for scarce resources against other players to survive. This challenging free browser game will be available on PC, Mac, Linux, iPhone, iPod Touch, iPad and smartphones. Survivors have real-life requirements for food and liquids and are affected by fear and fatigue. Tens of thousands of locations are available to loot, with supplies dwindling without replenishment. Players can also engage in PvP to gain resources, with theft of items during combat and the potential for brutally short skirmishes ending in a battlefield littered with lootable corpses. WotLD features a detailed skill development path for each character, real-world weapons and items and over a hundred bonus cards to discover. And remember, when a character dies, they’re gone for good. http://worldofthelivingdead.comFeature list ------------ * Survival strategy zombie MMO browser game * Huge game universe, starting with all of Los Angeles County * Background story based on a drastic plan to save humanity * Competition for limited resources - locations do not replenish * Realistic character needs based on fear, fatigue, hunger and thirst * Hardcore PvP with character permadeath and item looting from corpses * Establish upgradeable safehouses and claim territory * Control multiple characters with unique skill development paths * Real-world weapons and items * 100+ in-game collectible bonus cards * Dozens of achievements for surviving, fighting and exploring * Over 9 million zombies! |
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Here's how a bitcoin bank that takes actual bitcoin deposits and loans out actual bitcoins might work:
The bank offers to the depositor:
- Security for his bitcoins. The bank takes extreme measures to store the bitcoins in multiple forms, offline, heavily encrypted and insured in its vaults
- An easy, secure web interface to make and accept payments
- Perhaps a modest interest rate. But the above features may be enough to entice people to make deposits and keep their money in the bank.
- 50-99% reserve.... really depends on what the market will bear, but definitely greater than the 10% that is required now, I suspect.
Then, a certain percentage of bitcoins goes out in the form of commercial and consumer loans. Voila! Free market fractional reserve banking. Anyone want to start a business with me?
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Payment received! Thanks a bunch!
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Bitcoins are inherently finite, with a set timeframe for market maturation, they are also inherently deflationary at some point in the not too distant future, which means it's better to be in them sooner than later. Those are fundamental realities about the currency.
I'd add to that list of fundamental that bitcoin has low transaction costs, can provide anonymity with certain measures, is decentralized, and disallows charge backs. |
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So we would all need to accept "their books" as legal tender Not if you don't want to. Others might. |
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So, vinnie, how would this work in an anonymous setting, and without "men with guns"?
Just trolling...
*shrug* I doubt it would work in an anonymous setting. Banking depends on trust. I'm assuming the "men with guns" means the government. Societies find all sorts of interesting solutions for contract enforcement, and settling peacefully is usually cheaper than going to war. |
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Adam, thank you for your opinion on my IQ!
Retarded as I am, please explain how the bank (which one?) can "deposit" BTC100 in the block chain if said bank does not own BTC 100 to clear the transaction.
Thank you in advance for your explanation!
The deposit (transfer of possession of the 100BTC) would be reflected in two places; in their books and in the block chain. According to the block chain, the bank owns the 100BTC. But according to the contract between the depositor and the bank, the depositor owns the 100BTC but consents to the bank lending all or a fraction of it out. |
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In addition to what Adam said, the bank would likely be issuing a bitcoin backed note or secondary digital currency. So they would either issue the loan in the form of BTC and pay their original depositor his withdrawals in bitcoin backed notes, or issue the loan in the form of bitcoin backed notes and pay the original depositor in his original BTC.
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Needless to say, I am not interested in wasting my time when such conditions apply. So, if and when you are capable of civilised discussion, I'll be happy to answer.
Jesus tap dancing Christ. Stop bumping this fucking topic. You're ruining this forum. Please, for the love of God, stop wasting your time here. I beg you. |
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Cool! Make the market! I'm a big advocate of pegged currencies.... but bitcoin doesn't necessarily need to be one, in my opinion. Eventually its value will reflect what you can buy in the Bitcoin economy, as if bitcoin were it's own city-state with its own economy and currency.
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