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101  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: May 29, 2015, 09:55:00 AM
Download the client and give it a try. It's a fully functional system and you can see that it runs cleanly.

It is probably impossible (short of reverse engineering or building an extensive test kit) to determine that it runs cleanly without seeing the source code, because for example how do we evaluate how it might work in extreme or panic market conditions, under DDoS or high-frequency trading attacks, etc..

Be fair to me. How do you do the same with Citibank, JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, Bitfinex, Coinbase, itBit, Circle or anyone else? Whatever standard you hold our startup venture to you must hold the rest of the financial and fintech industry to as well. None of these industries are open source. We are, by far, the most distributed, and the most open in the industry. In addition, I can give you 100% access to the client code and/or open source it completely and you still wouldn't know what happens under the situations you described because you still wouldn't have access to the server code and/or the server business logic. To give access to such would be corporate suicide. I'm all for openness, but in a business environ there are pluses and minuses and open sourcing everything makes little sense if you must derive profits from selling said software. Now, if you are a purely services model (ex. Red Hat) then it may be a different story.

We offer tokens for sale that allow you to consult with us to extend both our tech and our financial engineering see https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1FMyNvogofqojqG6nkIjgvvjAnsWs1qOtKUFExvtp_m0/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=10000 and use this link to purchase them http://veritaseum.com/index.php/buy-veritas/quick-start-guide. So, if access to the client code is something that a client really wants, I'm sure we can work something out.
102  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: May 29, 2015, 09:35:21 AM
Pretty bold claims from Middleton, but I have tried it and it works, at least in a beta phase, not vapor phase or proof of concept phase, but beta phase.  You can trade all tickers that Cypherdoc mentions on here.  

I still don't understand how the tickers are fed into veritaseum to settle the bets. Can you explain that?

Saying "it works" without understanding how it works is short-sighted.

Twice or thrice I tried to find technical documentation (wading through all the promotional crap) and was stifled, so I assumed it is centralized bullshit.

That's my assumption, too... until it's explained how it works and it works in a way I can trust (which I doubt, but I've been wrong before).

If it's Reggie typing in 50000 tickers every hour then there might be no "counterparty risk", but there's plenty of other risk.

EDIT: I PMed him, maybe he'll show up here and explain. If not, it hardens my assumption.

It works from an end-user standpoint, which is more than I've seen from any other project.  Tickers prices are fed through an oracle, which is centralized.  Also, the code is not open source... yet, which i cant blame them for not wanting all their work to just be copied into another system.  In a nutshell, it appears to be blockchain.info 2.0.  The blockchain.info model has proven to work thus far with zero trust issues, but we will just have to wait for more info to become available. 

Thanks for the info regarding the centralized oracle.

I don't understand your comparison to blockchain.info.

I compare it to blockchain.info in that users retain control of their keys while using the service but without running a full node themselves - it is much more convenient and less resource-intensive.  Of course it's not a Web client but they may have plans for that.

@Reggie Middleton
Do you have plans to develop a hosted Web interface for your product?
We have an API and will encourage others to do that. We have started looking into doing it ourselves as well.
103  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: May 29, 2015, 09:32:49 AM
I believe the block size limit issue is getting critical.  You guys should check out Reggie Middleton's Veritaseum.  Quoting:

I still don't understand how the tickers are fed into veritaseum to settle the bets. Can you explain that?


Our server acts as an Oracle feeding commodity ticker data (think Reuters, Google, Bloomberg) into the wallets to adjudicate P&L.

There is research available on how to create a more decentralized, consensus driven oracle. Apologies I will not google now for a citation.

Edit: perhaps it was on Ethereum's blog that I saw some mention of research.
Veritaseum is not a research project, it's a for profit business. We have developed ways to decentralize, or even fully distribute the oracle but that did not improve the product. We (and presumably you as well) don't want to decentralize things for the sake of just decentralizing it. Decentralization is done to improve the outcomes. If the outcome is not improved, then the decision to decentralize is simply not made (at least in our camp). Once it comes to custody of the assets, we went way beyond decentralization and fully distributed the network. Why? Because it makes for a better outcome. The same can't be said for everything, though.
104  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: May 28, 2015, 07:14:08 PM
Pretty bold claims from Middleton, but I have tried it and it works, at least in a beta phase, not vapor phase or proof of concept phase, but beta phase.  You can trade all tickers that Cypherdoc mentions on here.  

I still don't understand how the tickers are fed into veritaseum to settle the bets. Can you explain that?

Saying "it works" without understanding how it works is short-sighted.

Twice or thrice I tried to find technical documentation (wading through all the promotional crap) and was stifled, so I assumed it is centralized bullshit.

That's my assumption, too... until it's explained how it works and it works in a way I can trust (which I doubt, but I've been wrong before).

If it's Reggie typing in 50000 tickers every hour then there might be no "counterparty risk", but there's plenty of other risk.

EDIT: I PMed him, maybe he'll show up here and explain. If not, it hardens my assumption.

See slide 14 here https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1UxB33wp1rCncBtPbuzQbkS1SZg_fjCTNMqu-wZGii-o/pub?start=true&loop=false&delayms=10000&slide=id.g7b8415063_38

Thanks for chipping in! Your other post ("centralized oracle") confirmed my suspicion. I don't share TPTB_need_war's view that that fact makes veritaseum centralized bullshit, though. I suspect it might be a great system. I love the fact that it lives on the bitcoin blockchain and has no other token. I also love that there's no counterparty risk and in addition I'm guessing it ties up some bitcoins in contracts and I do like that, too.

About the "other risk": where is the oracle on your server getting the tickers from? I guess that process should be made transparent at some point so we can at least know how it could be manipulated.

Certainly the incentive is high for some rogue employee somewhere to falsify some ticker feed you're pulling for just long enough for a large bet to be settled in his favor, no? Clearly there's noone capable/willing to fix something like that after the fact.


Only the data feed is centralized, everything else is fully distributed, which is better than centralized (reference the first link that I put up which explains this). A decentralized data feed just wouldn't work and it would be taking a step backwards from the current legacy system unless and until we have more activity than the centralized exchanges. Securities data fees are commodity items, and very easy to corroborate, very difficult to get away with in terms of fraud and/or manipulation.
As for someone in my camp manipulating a data feed, he/she would have a hard time doing so (we get them from 3rd parties) and even a harder time concealing it, and even a harder time than that getting away with it (each client plus the server has the ability to audit, although that is not implemented yet). You'd have to somehow change a data feed, hack into 3 disparate systems to inject that false data feed (whose real feed is freely availalble to all) and then hope nobody notices.
As it stands now, I believe our system is safer than the status quo by a long shot.
105  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: May 28, 2015, 04:43:03 PM
Quote
Veritaseum uses only bitcoin, and subsists completely on the bitcoin blockchain. It is the only bitcoin wallet system that can trade simple and complex value structures without using non-bitcoin tokens, alt coins, sidechains or alternative blockchains. It can trade the value of over 45,000 tickers in all asset classes, from major exchanges from all around the world. At it’s essence, Veritaseum is a hyper-intelligent Bitcoin wallet “system” that is able to create and interpret smart contracts through the blockchain. It coordinates with an Oracle to gain access to conventional, physical and legacy financial data and information and uses it to price, value, trade and settle OTC, P2P financial instruments - all in BTC.

Quote from: from Reggie Middleton
The Veritaseum platform, using nothing but pure bitcoin with no tokens or alternative internal currencies, moves the value of all that he mentioned plus much more (over 45k tickers), with absolutely no counterparty risk on a fully autonomous basis using smart contracts based solely on bitcoin script

It might be worth pointing out in these two posts.

Post 1 - it uses an Oracle
Post 2 - claims no counterparty risk.

A trusted oracle is a 3rd party.  Is this not a form of counterparty risk?
No, an oracle doesn't represent counterparty risk. If anything it may expose you to execution risk. Counterparty risk is the risk that your counterparty (other side of the trade) reneges or fails to deliver as agreed. That's not possible in our system because we make everyone face the blockchain as a Counterparty via preprogrammed scripts of coin that is used to fully collateralize (and/or overcollateralize) the contracts. At an absolute minimum, each contract is collateralized 100%, after all fees. I'm writing this on my phone so there may be typos.
106  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: May 28, 2015, 11:19:50 AM
Pretty bold claims from Middleton, but I have tried it and it works, at least in a beta phase, not vapor phase or proof of concept phase, but beta phase.  You can trade all tickers that Cypherdoc mentions on here.  

I still don't understand how the tickers are fed into veritaseum to settle the bets. Can you explain that?

Saying "it works" without understanding how it works is short-sighted.

Twice or thrice I tried to find technical documentation (wading through all the promotional crap) and was stifled, so I assumed it is centralized bullshit.

That's my assumption, too... until it's explained how it works and it works in a way I can trust (which I doubt, but I've been wrong before).

If it's Reggie typing in 50000 tickers every hour then there might be no "counterparty risk", but there's plenty of other risk.

EDIT: I PMed him, maybe he'll show up here and explain. If not, it hardens my assumption.

See slide 14 here https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1UxB33wp1rCncBtPbuzQbkS1SZg_fjCTNMqu-wZGii-o/pub?start=true&loop=false&delayms=10000&slide=id.g7b8415063_38
107  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: May 28, 2015, 11:12:39 AM
Pretty bold claims from Middleton, but I have tried it and it works, at least in a beta phase, not vapor phase or proof of concept phase, but beta phase.  You can trade all tickers that Cypherdoc mentions on here.  

I still don't understand how the tickers are fed into veritaseum to settle the bets. Can you explain that?

Saying "it works" without understanding how it works is short-sighted.

Twice or thrice I tried to find technical documentation (wading through all the promotional crap) and was stifled, so I assumed it is centralized bullshit.

That's not a fair presumption. Most tech dudes (and most people in general) use the financial system and have absolutely no idea how it works. Does that mean that your money doesn't spend? Veritaseum, from a capital perspective, is fully decentralized. It is the only automated system that I know of that is fully autonomous in that you keep your private keys private and on your client under your control. All transactions are peer to peer through the blockchain, and our server doesn't touch, house, hold, custody or control a single satoshi of your coin. Read http://veritaseum.com/index.php/homes/1-blog/128-will-new-vc-investment-trump-the-returns-of-the-early-movers-in-the-digital-currency-space-quite-possibly-let-me-show-you-how and http://veritaseum.com/index.php/homes/1-blog/94-bitcoin-1-0-vs-2-0-or-a-comparison-of-legacy-exchanges-veritaseum-s-ultracoin for the difference between centralized and decentralized systems.
As an aside, the vast majority of bitcoin traders don't seem to have a problem with centralized systems as they freely send their decentralized assets to fully centralized entities to house, trade and exchange. Just a little food for thought.
108  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: May 28, 2015, 11:04:54 AM
I believe the block size limit issue is getting critical.  You guys should check out Reggie Middleton's Veritaseum.  Quoting:

I still don't understand how the tickers are fed into veritaseum to settle the bets. Can you explain that?


Our server acts as an Oracle feeding commodity ticker data (think Reuters, Google, Bloomberg) into the wallets to adjudicate P&L.
109  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: May 28, 2015, 11:00:51 AM
I believe the block size limit issue is getting critical.  You guys should check out Reggie Middleton's Veritaseum.  Quoting:

Quote
Veritaseum uses only bitcoin, and subsists completely on the bitcoin blockchain. It is the only bitcoin wallet system that can trade simple and complex value structures without using non-bitcoin tokens, alt coins, sidechains or alternative blockchains. It can trade the value of over 45,000 tickers in all asset classes, from major exchanges from all around the world. At it’s essence, Veritaseum is a hyper-intelligent Bitcoin wallet “system” that is able to create and interpret smart contracts through the blockchain. It coordinates with an Oracle to gain access to conventional, physical and legacy financial data and information and uses it to price, value, trade and settle OTC, P2P financial instruments - all in BTC.

Quote

One more in a long list of efforts built around getting a free ride on the protocol at the expense of others.  They should be being worried about it being ballooned, weakened, and ultimately controlled more than anyone unless they are running some sort of pump-n-dump scam platform or are as dumb as a box of rocks.

Whatever the case, this is a classic example of where a dedicated sidechain could shine.  Reggie and co can make their own determinations about how much engineering and transparency they want to pay for for their VeritaseumCoin sidechain based on the market demand in their segment.  They can also decide how much effort they should be putting into securing Bitcoin core, and I doubt that it would be less than it is today.

Actually, we have contributed to the bitcoin core. In the process of building our system, we found a bug or two. In addition, Veritaseum doesn't bloat the blockchain. Download the client and give it a try. It's a fully functional system and you can see that it runs cleanly.
110  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / 7 Steps to Valuing Crypto 2.0 Tokens: Veritaseum's Token Sale vs 120,000% Gains on: March 17, 2015, 09:13:44 PM
This is what I would consider an interesting piece that I haven't seen discussed yet. I have a strong background in investments and valuation. Now that my startup is in the process of issuing tokens via crowdsale, I thought I'd take the time to put some structure to the comparison of the crypto tokens available. See the article that explains our token relative to others and walks through the seven steps I've created to valuing crypto 2;0 tokens
http://veritaseum.com/index.php/homes/item/107-explanation-of-veritaseum-s-token-sale-and-why-litecoin-price-increased-110-000-drawing-inevitable-comparisons
111  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Bitcoin-based Tradeable Assets Used To Eliminate "Too Big To Fail" in Banks on: March 17, 2015, 12:29:13 PM
The same team that forecast the fall of Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers formed a team of blockchain technology engineers and solved the "Too Big Too Fail"  issue in the banking system with Bitcoin-based tradeable assets that essentially disintermediate not only banks, but management consulting firms as well. The assets are available for purchase today, as is the counterparty risk-free solution they propose. Not a white paper or a concept, but an existing solution. See http://veritaseum.com/index.php/homes/item/106-veritaseum-vertias-user-case-to-prevent-banks-from-failing-the-next-stress-test

I don't get it, how can Bitcoin with a total world value of 4 billion be used to in any way prop up too big to fail banks?
TARP last time was 700billion officially, with more than double that actually given out to banks.

Maybe I am missing something, but it seems like bitcoin is too small to help here.
I think it means the company Veritaseum offers financial analysis, investment and engineering service to its customers, help them identify the investment opportunity and avoid the shitty investment or the big financial institutions which are falling in difficulties.  

You got it!  Grin
112  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Bitcoin-based Tradeable Assets Used To Eliminate "Too Big To Fail" in Banks on: March 17, 2015, 12:27:33 PM
I don't think every normal users will need eritaseum's future goods and services. Probably they just buyt it and speculate about the appreciating price of the assets.

Veritaseum is an institutional and/or professional grade product made usable for the everyday person. As things get rolling, we will come up with simplified services and use cases to the everyday man/woman as well.
113  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Bitcoin-based Tradeable Assets Used To Eliminate "Too Big To Fail" in Banks on: March 17, 2015, 06:32:11 AM
The nominal value of bitcoin will increase/decrease according to the laws of supply and demand, thus as banks adopt, the nominal value increases. The USD, when first adopted, had a nominal value likely in the low single digit million (http://www.banknoteden.com/USA_Colonials.html). Now it is easily measured in the trillions. As of April 2013, the monetary base was $3 trillion and M2, the broadest measure of money supply, was $10.5 trillion.

In addition, it's the blockchain technology that we're proposing would save the banks from a risk perspective, not the actual BTC themselves.
114  Economy / Trading Discussion / Bitcoin-based Tradeable Assets Used To Eliminate "Too Big To Fail" in Banks on: March 16, 2015, 07:49:35 PM
The same team that forecast the fall of Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers formed a team of blockchain technology engineers and solved the "Too Big Too Fail"  issue in the banking system with Bitcoin-based tradeable assets that essentially disintermediate not only banks, but management consulting firms as well. The assets are available for purchase today, as is the counterparty risk-free solution they propose. Not a white paper or a concept, but an existing solution. See http://veritaseum.com/index.php/homes/item/106-veritaseum-vertias-user-case-to-prevent-banks-from-failing-the-next-stress-test
115  Economy / Economics / Veritas: Intellectual Capital Abstracted Into a Blockchain Tradeable Asset on: March 14, 2015, 02:26:03 PM
Intellectual capital backed, tradeable bitcoin blockchain asset with true intrinsic value, created by the team behind Veritaseum (the rebranded value trading system called http://ultra-coin.com). This, like the Veritaseum Value Trading Wallet it supports, is 100% bitcoin and not an altcoin or token. Please review the presentation for the asset http://veritaseum.com/index.php/2014-07-09-07-53-37 and the Bitcoin wallet cum trading system http://veritaseum.com/
116  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: How to Use Bitcoin To Trade Macro Trends in Stocks, Bonds, Commodities & Forex on: February 11, 2015, 08:38:52 PM
A lot of people are suspicious of things that they do not understand. Thus, my our primary responsibility is education. We have to teach the Bitcoin literati exactly what Bitcoin is capable of WITHOUT resorting to tokens, altcoins and sidechains. We have to teach the broader financial community that Bitcoin is capable of much more than mere payments and plain vanilla trading for fiat. We need to teach the lay person that our system is strong, safer, and more flexible/transparent than legacy systems. And finally, we need to teach the regulators that Bitcoin is not the bogeyman that the media is making it out to be. Actually, our system makes the regulators job much easier as long as they don't overdo it on the regulation.

As for what it can do, these are some of the screen shots from our spreadsheet-based trade setup model (what all newbies should be using to setup trades in their UltraCoin wallet).


In case your wondering, the absolute net payout is bounded by what you put in (principal+collateral). If you increase that amount, you increase the amount you are able to claim from your counterparty. The leverage allows this (or the opposite, a loss) to happen very, very quickly if you ratchet it up. The collateral is just that, collateral - and is return to you as yours if it is unused. It's purpose is to allow you to stay in the trade if your original principal is eaten up and to guarantee that your counterparty gets paid up to the "smart contract"ual limits. The more you pay, the more can play!

Of those that are amazed, there are probably some of you saying, "That's cool and all, but  I don't want to trade through or have any exposure to bitcoin price volatility." Well, for one, the entire interface can be expressed in the (major) fiat currency of your choice. More importantly, the sytem does a lot to quell the noise of bitcoin. It's almost as if it wasn't there.
This is the result of this trade when bitcoin drops 10% mid-trade...


 This is what happens if BTC were to go catastrophic and collapse 40% during the trade...



Yes! You still profit roughly 9%. There are a plethora of other advantages to this "bitcoin" wallet as well...
117  Economy / Trading Discussion / How to Use Bitcoin To Trade Macro Trends in Stocks, Bonds, Commodities & Forex on: February 11, 2015, 07:36:21 PM
The Veritaseum bitcoin wallet now allows users to lever up to 10,000x to trade stocks, bonds, currencies (and pairs, and major cryptocurrencies).We are offering over 45,000 tickers in all of these asset classes, through all major exchanges.

You can download our Excel-based trade designer to help you design trades and simulate their expected outcomes. The spread sheet, the UltraCoin bitcoin wallet (this is a pure, smart contract-driven bitcoin wallet, not an alt-coin, token, or sidechain - 100%, pure, unadulterated BITCOIN). and associated research here: http://ultra-coin.com/index.php/download-beta

To demonstrate the depth and quality of the research that went into the design and implementation of this system, read this article on using it to monetize the possibility of the Danish central bank breaking the krone's peg to the euro. For those who don't know, when the Swiss central bank did the same thing last month, it drove many forex houses out of business and pushed many hedge funds into a loss for the year. See http://ultra-coin.com/index.php/homes/item/89-is-the-danish-krona-peg-to-euro-more-fragile-than-glass-beads-the-danish-national-bank-infers-so

118  Economy / Speculation / Re: Reggie Middleton uses car analogy to explain that Bitcoin is not a bubble on: November 01, 2014, 06:10:23 PM
The UltraCoin value trading wallet is ready to go. Just download it here and you can see it work for yourself. Over 75,000 tickers available for trading. http://ultra-coin.com/index.php/download-beta
119  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / One of the best TV interviews on smart contracts in quite a while on: August 24, 2014, 12:54:43 PM
See this RT clip at the 4 minute mark
http://youtu.be/6PPBVIktY28?t=4s
120  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Expanding Bitcoin capabilities: Shorting the Oil Market Through Smart Contracts on: August 14, 2014, 06:28:24 PM
What I call the "world's most powerful wallet" is being used to illustrate how one can take a 4x leveraged short bet against a (what some consider bubblistic) oil market. See http://ultra-coin.com/index.php/homes/item/50-if-you-believe-the-oil-bull-market-is-over-this-is-how-to-monetize-it-through-ultra-coin-com


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