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1  Economy / Speculation / Re: BIDWALL MELTS!!! on: October 25, 2011, 01:30:35 AM
But, place your bets where you wish - with such confidence surely you are shorting the market? Or are you just talking? I encourage you to profit from your foresight. Bitcoinica will give you 5:1 margin for a short position... why not come back in a month and tell us how much money you've made?! I'll personally apologize to you for my skepticism of your reasoning.

I keep seeing comments similar to this one. Not everyone here is for profit, personally I'm just very interested in what is going on for various reasons related to my day job. I have been negative of the implementation of Bitcoin from the start, but never thought of placing any bets, or trying to short, even though I was sure that the price would continue to drop.

The reason? I simply don't trust the exchanges. Not a single one of them. Not even to short. This I believe is a big part of the problem with BTC, the technology can be as resilient as anything in the world, but the implementation fails at the choke points.
2  Economy / Speculation / Re: Breakout to the Upside Imminent on: October 12, 2011, 03:15:05 AM
Something is in the air, and of course this is just speculation, but I think we're about to leave the $3.xx price for a good long time, if not forever.

$19: We're about to break 20 again, expect a rally soon.

$15: The rally back to 30 and beyond is about to happen.

$14: It's been steady at 14 for weeks, rally should be coming.

$12: It cannot go any lower.

$10: BUY, BUY, BUY

$9: We should hover back to 12 soon, and then rally back up.

$6: This is the point where people will start buying, expect it to got to hundreds within weeks/months

$5: It cannot drop lower.

$4: Many miners have shut down their rigs, expect a rally.

$3.90: It will go up soon...

I keep lurking here because this is really a lesson in self-deception,. Before you say anything, no, I'm not trolling, I've been here for a while, I rarely post, and I'm truly very interested in BTC for various reasons. Yet, I'm just baffled by the almost religious bullishness.
3  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin in France: first legal decision directly related to Bitcoin? on: September 05, 2011, 12:47:27 PM
Vivendi Universal is french, they own blizzard, blizzard runs WoW, that's billions of dollars in virtual goods.  One of which is a virtual currency.  Dofus comes to mind as well, that is distinctly french.  Anyway, if the bank holds accounts for these people, they should have to hold accounts for you as well, non?

No, third parties do not accept the currency as means of exchange, WoW gold does not meet the definitions.
4  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin in France: first legal decision directly related to Bitcoin? on: September 05, 2011, 05:48:55 AM
The point of my comment was that I don't believe the issue to be as bad as MagicalTux implied. There are solutions to open an exchange other than become a bank. There are also other countries other than France in the SEPA zone. Even Romania, why not? Smiley

It really depends what the exchange is doing. The nature of the BTC exchanges is to received deposits and manage funds. The exchange houses you are thinking of do not do the same thing, it is just a walk in and out exchange. Taking deposits is regulated, not as a bank, but as a financial institution (same applies to all sorts of bodies that handle financial transactions).
5  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin in France: first legal decision directly related to Bitcoin? on: September 04, 2011, 02:49:26 PM
Not mentioning that exchange or online storage of bitcoins would require to be a bank, which involves a lot of fees and time (can take up to 5 years to create one).

Not true. Where I live (Bucharest/Romania) there are dedicated exchange houses which are not banks. You go in, give cash, get cash in another currency. I've seen these in other countries.

These are regulated in the EU, and you need a licence to operate one. Moreover, Romania is a recent addition to the EU, so it is possible that the relevant legislation is just being implemented (accession countries had a grace period to implement legislation).
6  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin in France: first legal decision directly related to Bitcoin? on: September 04, 2011, 02:45:55 PM
I'll be extremely interested to read the Court's decision (not the summary civil court one, but the later one). The relevant part of the Directive 2009/110/EC (Electronic MOney Institutions Directive) reads:

2. "electronic money" means electronically, including magnetically, stored monetary value as represented by a claim on the issuer which is issued on receipt of funds for the purpose of making payment transactions as defined in point 5 of Article 4 of Directive 2007/64/EC, and which is accepted by a natural or legal person other than the electronic money issuer;"

Your best defence is to claim that you are not the issuer.

However, that would still not solve your problems in Europe, as you may still need to register as a credit institution in order to take deposits and keep accounts. You actually may be better off as an electronic money institution than as a credit institution.

We are basing our defense on the fact Bitcoins are not issued for money, but issued ("created" or "mined") for "free" (in exchange of a specific work, in fact, but anyone can have their computer do it and expect to have bitcoins within a more or less long timeframe). Because of this, one bitcoin (or 0.00000001 bitcoin) has no defined value.

Yes, that would definitely be a good argument. However, it all depends on how they read the Directive's definition, as mining could be considered value issued on receipt of funds, it depends on whether they consider that the cost of issuing the value is more than 0, which technically it is (depreciation and electricity have monetary value).

I still believe that your best argument is to state that you are not the ones issuing the money.

I am still very interested in how you intend to operate in Europe regardless of the decision, as technically you would be a regulated financial institution because of what you do. European financial markets are highly regulated, as I'm sure you are discovering.
7  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: EU to declare bitcoin as 'overlay currency' on: September 04, 2011, 02:36:01 PM
Err how was this information obtained? Did the person talk to FSA or someone in the EU commission? Is there any EU politician or finance ministry that is semi-publicly stating this? And IRC chat log doesnt seem that creditable.

+1
8  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin in France: first legal decision directly related to Bitcoin? on: September 04, 2011, 02:25:51 PM
A few weeks ago, our previous French bank closed our bank account despite knowing about our activity, which we explained fully before starting. We challenged this decision in court, to which the bank tried to defend itself by saying "Bitcoin is an electronic money, Macaraja is not a bank, therefore it's illegal for Macaraja to be handling this". The court replied that it was not up to the bank to decide this, and ordered the bank to re-open the account.


I'll be extremely interested to read the Court's decision (not the summary civil court one, but the later one). The relevant part of the Directive 2009/110/EC (Electronic Money Institutions Directive) reads:

2. "electronic money" means electronically, including magnetically, stored monetary value as represented by a claim on the issuer which is issued on receipt of funds for the purpose of making payment transactions as defined in point 5 of Article 4 of Directive 2007/64/EC, and which is accepted by a natural or legal person other than the electronic money issuer;"


Your best defence is to claim that you are not the issuer.

However, that would still not solve your problems in Europe, as you may still need to register as a credit institution in order to take deposits and keep accounts. You actually may be better off as an electronic money institution than as a credit institution.
9  Economy / Speculation / Re: UP or DOWN GAME!!! on: August 08, 2011, 08:33:58 PM
Down.
10  Economy / Speculation / Re: Largest weekend discount so far :) on: August 07, 2011, 08:20:04 PM
Get owned lately? Sounding real emotional, like a female. You a female?

Ah, a misogynistic teenager. Bet the girls pick on you at school.
11  Economy / Speculation / Re: Largest weekend discount so far :) on: August 07, 2011, 08:18:35 PM
Lol, then you're doing it all wrong, trust me.
If he is, then so are many, many others. What you don't realize is that the success of Bitcoin is hinged on the ability of people other than pimple farming tech nerds like you being convinced of the utility of Bitcoin. Given that the "value" of Bitcoin (in terms of USD as it really has no inherent value at all, despite all the libertarian claims otherwise) is derived from its use as a commodity to day-trade with, there is no possible incentive for regular folks - who don't need or want to have to master the innards of computer security in order to "protect" their investment - to use these things. Bitcoin is currently for the cash-poor and time-rich, those who see nothing wrong wuth (1) spending hours watching MtGoxLive in hopes of being able to make a small margin on some volatility or (2) run 18 graphics cards with fans blowing in their dorm room.

Most people's time is more valuable than that, and these are the people - whether you like it or not - who have the money to make Bitcoin something more than the technerd's casino that it currently is. Making statements like "if you can't protect your bitcoin, you deserve to lose it" reeks of the adolescent mentality most of you have.

+1 . The "blame the victim" crowd don't understand that they need mainstream users to get Bitcoin to lift-off as they want to.
12  Economy / Speculation / Re: New Indicator: Number of sites accepting bitcoin on: August 07, 2011, 08:05:11 PM
The trade page is not an accurate reflection of who accepts Bitcoins right now. I conducted a small sample recently of one sub-section (educational software), and found that only 3 of the listed businesses still seemed to be accepting BTC. My own unscientific impression of the market at the moment is that there are quite a lot of sites that thought about accepting BTC, but no longer do.
13  Economy / Speculation / Re: RALLY!!! on: August 07, 2011, 12:18:32 PM
Wasn't expecting to wake up and see this, to be honest.  I thought we'd be in the 5s, at least.  Hmmm.

I think chodpaba predicted a fast drop to 5's then spike to 9-10 then the real drop to low single figures in the time series analysis thread.

Couple of days ago I thought that we would be seeing wild swings between 9.2 and 7.7. It is still in volatile territory as single transactions are moving the price by an entire dollar. it seems like the swing territory is between 6 and 9. It's going down again as traders are cashing out while high.
14  Economy / Speculation / Re: CRASH! on: August 07, 2011, 03:42:44 AM
15  Economy / Speculation / Re: We are testing the week low of 8,70 dollars soon on: August 06, 2011, 04:04:15 PM
Yeah, we're still very top heavy and there are a lot of folks who got lots of coins for less than a dollar and selling even at $6 will still yield a ridiculous return on investment.  Also, $6 is, I think, still profitable for a lot of miners.

The market is in wild swing mode now, given the fact that relatively small transactions will affect price immediately. Looking at the data right now it is even possible that there will be a bounce up to 9.2, after which the price could slide back all the way to 7.7. This could go on all weekend.

However, another big sale and price would go down to 6 easily.
16  Economy / Speculation / Re: We are testing the week low of 8,70 dollars soon on: August 06, 2011, 03:17:20 PM
$3 USD drop in 24 hours, looking at market depth there's nothing stopping slide down to $6 USD at the moment.

Nobody seems to be buying.
17  Economy / Speculation / Re: R.I.P Bitcoin on: August 06, 2011, 03:03:10 PM
18  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Here we go again ...now its Instawallet.org ? on: August 06, 2011, 02:49:53 PM
Retards why cant you just keep your own wallet. Is it really so hard?  All i see around here is a bunch of people crying about how someone stole my bitcoins.  well you deserve it. IMO

And people wonder why there is no new money coming into Bitcoin...
19  Economy / Speculation / Re: CRASH! on: August 03, 2011, 03:49:21 PM
20  Economy / Economics / Re: What would happen to Bitcoin if the World Echnomy went over to Bitcoins on: July 18, 2011, 11:19:11 PM
Silly question or not, speculation is fun. And seeing as how this is a bitcoin board, coming on here to knock on bitcoin and say how awful it is... yeah, that's trolling.

So, only people who are in favour are welcome here? I find the concept of Bitcoin fascinating and interesting, that's why I'm here. It is fun to read so many clueless comments and comment on them from time to time. To point out the utter silliness of such statements is not trolling.

Honestly, I have never seen any place anywhere on the Internet where the term "troll" is abused so much. It has become synonymous here with "BTC skeptic", and that is not what it means. It means someone making false comments with the intention to deceive. To disagree with the majority is not trolling. It is discussion.
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