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2481  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: mtgox fee calculations not accurate. on: June 25, 2011, 06:38:02 AM
Quote
1.98000000 ฿TC at $17.29000 (fee)   $0.22220

By my calculations, at 0.65% - the fee should be $0.22252230

If they're rounding - it's not at a consistent number of DP for BTC compared to USD... and how the hell did they come up with 0.22220 anyway??

The only way I could come up with something close to 0.2222  - was to round during the intermediate calculation.

This is surely a big no-no.  This is as bad as using floats for currency.
Doesn't anyone else have concerns about this?Huh

2482  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: mtgox fee calculations not accurate. on: June 25, 2011, 06:34:35 AM

It's just rounded. Shown value is different form the actual value.

the 2nd is 0.0065 and the 1st is 0.013.

What evidence do you have for that?


Look at this USD fee:
 1.98000000 ฿TC at $17.29000 (fee)   $0.22220

By my calculations, at 0.65% - the fee should be $0.22252230

If they're rounding - it's not at a consistent number of DP for BTC compared to USD... and how the hell did they come up with 0.22220 anyway??

What makes you think it's a rounding for *display* and not a rounding of the underlying value?
Does/did mtgox have a displayed policy on how they round anyway?





2483  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / mtgox fee calculations not accurate. on: June 25, 2011, 05:49:40 AM
mtgox fees appear to be inaccurate.   I thought they charged 0.65%

Here is an example:

bought 2 BTC -  fee charged: 0.01300000 ฿TC
bought 1 BTC -  fee charged: 0.00600000 ฿TC   

They undercharged me on the 1BTC trade. (should have been 0.00650000  ฿TC)

I also saw some undercharging on USD values when selling.

So far these minor miscalulations work in the users favour - so I guess nobody is really complaining - but have mtgox said anything about this?
If they're not accurate in charging these fees.. what else are they not accurate in calculating?

2484  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Poll - Mt. Gox Rollback - We Finally see our Accounts on: June 25, 2011, 05:44:36 AM
Other.  I have slightly more in USD and BTC - because it appears mtgox don't calculate the fees properly.
They're truncating and/or rounding at some point - so sometimes they effectively charge less than 0.65%

This is all well and good while it works in our favour - but it doesn't bode well for the trustworthiness of their system.
2485  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: THE DE-GOXER - check your balance history and access logs - FOR REAL on: June 25, 2011, 05:22:04 AM
All good for me!
Well..  I do have one mBTC *more* than I thought..    not sure how that happened.


I wonder if Bitcoin7 isn't the only exchange that doesn't know why not to use floats in finance. Tongue


Hmm..  looking at my trade logs:
bought 2BTC - and they charged  0.01300000  ฿TC
bought 1BTC - and they charged  0.00600000 ฿TC

It should have been 0.0065000 ฿TC
What are they doing? Truncating after 3DP during intermediate calculations?

Ouch.   I only have a few 10's of BTC in this account - and in this case it worked in my favour - but surely these errors will add up for anyone with a decent size account and a lot of trades.
2486  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Im confused, where is this money coming from? on: June 25, 2011, 05:07:32 AM
Quote
Deflation is only bad if you're in debt to the currency.

So even if we get to the point where the deflation is at a slow steady rate..  doesn't this work against the usefulness of BTC in the economy?
Who is going to take out a BTC loan if they not only have to pay a little interest, but also have to work x% more hours to pay it off just due to the background deflation?
Perhaps lenders will be forced to only apply very tiny interest rates - and do even more thorough credit checks on people than they currently would?

This is (just?) one aspect of the bitcoin economy I don't grasp.
Availability of credit is surely an underpinning of economic growth and wealth distribution.
2487  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: THE DE-GOXER - check your balance history and access logs - FOR REAL on: June 25, 2011, 04:53:37 AM
All good for me!
Well..  I do have one mBTC *more* than I thought..    not sure how that happened.
2488  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcent? on: June 25, 2011, 04:11:20 AM
Using new currency names would be very confusing to average consumers. There is no good reason to ask consumers to learn more new terminology than is needed. Take advantage of the fact that the well known SI prefixes are taught in public schools (math, physics, chemistry), so using them would increase comprehension.
 
1 BTC = 1,000 mBTC (millibitcoin)
1 BTC = 1,000,000 uBTC (microbitcoin)
1 BTC = 1,000,000,000 nBTC (nanobitcoin)
1 BTC = 1,000,000,000,000 pBTC (picobitcoin)
1 BTC = 1,000,000,000,000,000 fBTC (femtobitcoin)

And no higher unit than 1 BTC.

Phase out the bitcent to be consistent. Eg. not 1 bitcent, but 10 millibitcoin. It makes it much easier to do comparisons when you only divide by 1,000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SI_prefix


+ 1  for sticking to the bitcoin as the unit to which the SI prefixes apply.
That other idea of millibitcents etc is awful.  Guaranteed to cause mass confusion. 0.001 BTC  is  far easier to read off as 1 mBTC than  10 millibitcents.

I don't agree that 'bitcent' should be phased out.  It's too well understood and convenient.  Just don't base other units on it!


2489  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Poll: Should Mt. Gox increase the time between opening and trading? on: June 23, 2011, 06:05:19 PM
Actually.. based on the previous deadlines mtgox set themselves and missed - I don't think we need worry that it'll be only one hour Tongue
2490  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Mt. Gox needs to give more time between reopening and starting trading. on: June 23, 2011, 06:03:29 PM
Quote
Upon logging back into the system for the first time there will be a checkbox that will allow you to wipe all open orders.

Source: OnlyOneTV interview with Mt.Gox

So if you don't get a chance to log in before trading starts.. your orders will still be there and will execute?  I hope that's not how they do it.
2491  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: First Bitcoin Billionair? on: June 23, 2011, 04:47:39 PM
oh.. I see the jun 2011 richlist shows 432,109 as the largest.
I hope that's from an exchange like mtgox - and not an individual.
It'd be nice if the first bitcoin billionaire was someone with 100,000 or less BTC.

Then 1 BTC would be about $10K Smiley

2492  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: First Bitcoin Billionair? on: June 23, 2011, 04:40:40 PM
ok.. if we estimate the largest holding at around 300,000 BTC 
(feb 27 2011 richlist shows 250,000 as largest - so perhaps someone will or has amassed 300K or so ?)

Then for that to be worth USD 1Billion - each bitcoin would need to be worth approx $3,333 USD

Even with my tiny holding..  I'd pretty damn happy I think!
I still wouldn't have a clue when to sell though.  Perhaps I'd get spooked by $1000 per BTC and take some cash in local currency...
unless by that time I can buy goods in Australia directly in bitcoin Smiley

On the philosophy of it..  well.. people inherit millions and billions through dumb luck of appearing in the correct uterus.. so..  it seems fairer that people who take a punt on something as innovative as bitcoin should get a windfall.
2493  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Is it OK to join a pyramid scheme if you're in early? on: June 23, 2011, 04:28:36 PM
Seems like a pretty bad idea to me.

Even if you do get a payout - what if some time later you send coins to say some exchange (which can tie your deposits to your email address) and then said exchange gets raided and database seized by your (or some) government. (perhaps for some unrelated reason)
Could you then get charged for having participated in a pyramid scheme if they do a lot of further tracking?

While I can see that bitcoins allow anonymous exchanges in many cases - it's not at all clear to me yet just how much can later be forensically determined via the public blockchain etc.

I like bitcoin for it's *relative* freedom from government/bank control - but I'm not going to be assuming it's entirely safe to use for dodgy things!
2494  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Introduce yourself :) on: June 22, 2011, 12:36:13 PM
Hi, I'm julz.

I started mining in mid 2010 - and stopped because of the port conflict with vmware Sad
I'll curse vmware forever now!

2495  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Newbie restrictions on: June 22, 2011, 12:33:59 PM
I don't think the newbie restriction thing is made obvious enough to new signups.
I wasted time with different browsers, checking my email system etc to see if I'd missed an instruction..

Please be a bit more considerate of the newbies who sign up. 

  • Make the newbie posting notice bigger and bolder.
  • Send a confirmation/intro email.
  • put a notice about the newbie restriction status in the profile section too.

Disappointed.  I signed up to make a specific comment on a particular timely issue.
I guess a bit of newbie collateral damage is all part of the war on spam eh.



J
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