Hi all,

It seems to me that the exchange functionality on the Trezor applications (the rich client beta, and the web app) is new and incomplete.

I was able to exchange bitcoin to USD Tether (ERC20) which is done through the bitcoin wallet on the web app and it showed up on the Etherium wallet as a Tether ERC20 token... all good.

But there does not appear to be anyway to use the exchange function from the Etherium wallet side to exchange back to bitcoin.

Does anyone have experience with this?

It appears that the exchange functionality that does exist on the web app is not even available yet on the rich client beta.

Ok thanks very much, I think we can close this thread. Although there are finer points about the hardware wallet rabbit hole I could go down - I think I understand things as much as I need to in a practical way.

Thanks... I guess what I am trying to get clear on here is... I think of my total Bitcoin holdings like a single Bank Account... I may make hundreds of buys and sells but all of those transactions get aggregated under a single "thing". If I continue to create new addresses for each buy/sell - generating new private and public keys - what is it that aggregates all of these transactions? 

I had thought that this aggregation happened because all the transactions went to the same public key.

Man, I am struggling...

So it seems that the thing I have been calling the hash/signature is actually the wallet address. I keep thinking of the wallet address as this singular immutable thing but it sounds like a wallet address can be used like a disposable [single use] token to write a transaction to the block chain at the location of the public key (or as previously discussed an existing wallet address could be reused).


just to be sure i'm clear... are you saying the public key generates the wallet address? I had thought that both public key and wallet address were derived directly from the private key. I had imagined wallets only needed to contain private keys - and that everything needed could be derived from that.

So I think I need to introduce the word "Account" into this discussion - which is where [I think] there is a disconnect here. I realize that I may choose to have several [for example] Bitcoin "Accounts" in my wallet but I am choosing to ONLY discuss a single "Account" of Bitcoin within my wallet.

So each time I withdraw from my exchange newly purchased Bitcoin I am depositing them into my hardware wallet to the same "Account". BUT when I tell my exchange where to send the Bitcoin I am providing them with a different hash/signature that ultimately is resolved to the same single public key - aka the same "Account" on the block chain.

So there is a 1 to 1 relationship between a wallet address and a public key BUT... many different hash/signatures of a given wallet address can be used to generate the public key on the block chain. A wallet address would never be directly transmitted or used to transact... a hash/signature would always be used instead. Also a wallet address is analogous to a private key.

Thanks so much for your patience on this.

Ok so each time I create a new "address" (aka string of characters) it is ultimately resolved to the same public key - and the public key is the single "pointer" to where all my transactions are on the block chain? I'm an old c programmer so the terms "address" and "key" are very loaded words to me.


Thanks... this is something that had not occurred to me.

I have a Trazor hardware wallet, and use the Trazor web site to withdraw bitcoin from my exchange.

For each withdrawal I must copy and paste a string of characters from the Trazor web page to my exchange.

It is possible to reuse the same string (from a previous withdrawal) OR each time create a new string of characters.

question:

So is this string of characters the public key - so each time I withdraw (using a new string of characters) into my wallet I am withdrawing into a new location on the block chain - and the Trazor wallet keeps track of all these separate locations?

OR

Is each string just a hash/signature from which a single (same) public key is calculated.

I assume its the second... and that reusing the same "hash" is not a problem because money is going into the block chain public address and not out of it.

thanks in advance.

Thanks so much guys,

There are so many poorly written articles out there that try to explain this stuff - that leave out subtle points and I have had to read dozens of them to get to this point of understanding.

One of the most common sloppy turns of phrase are "saving your bitcoins to your wallet".

"Value" lives on the block chain and one uses the keys and algorithms in a wallet, to create signatures to transact with it. Except that a paper wallet, and a brain wallet have no algorithms to create signatures - so are they wallets? hmmm

I point this out to demonstrate a noobs perspective on the way the jargon is used.

My parents owned a restaurant in 1986 and I remember telling them how I was going to create a menu on the computer... you can imagine how confused they were.

Thanks again... great community.

I've read many many descriptions of what a wallet address is and I think I am getting to understand it.

A wallet address is NOT a thing that identifies or points to a wallet.

Rather a wallet address refers to an address (public/private key pair) within a wallet but I think more subtly... a wallet creates a signature/hash FROM a public/private key pair that is contained within the wallet. This signature is used to authenticate a transaction without actually exposing the key pair.

A wallet therefore is a container for one or more private/public key pairs and the algorithms required to generate signatures from them.

Did I get that right?

So you are saying a wallet address (or wallet) is a container for one or more crypto currency addresses - where as, a specific crypto currencyaddress would be a specifc public/private key pair that is stored on that wallet?

I have always understood that wallets may be used to house several crypto platforms however when I hear "wallet address" I think a specific private/public key pair within that wallet. Perhaps I am misunderstanding you but it sounds like you are saying the one must first address the wallet - then address the crypto currency platform account within that wallet. I've read a lot about this and never seen this as a two step process. Every example simply addresses directly to the key of the crypto account.


I have no doubt that this is true... I've read a huge amount already but most of it goes over the same points, sometimes contradicting other sources, sometimes skipping subtle details. I'm a retired software developer... I know the drill .

Thanks BitMaxz,

Its the signing part I was missing.

I've done a lot of research to get to this point. The problem is that many times subtle parts like this get glossed over or assumed.

For example: Another big issue I had was the question of where "Value" is stored (i.e. ones account balance).

This was unclear to me for a long time and many people describing it would say things like "store your bitcoin in your wallet" - which is not where the value goes... it lives on the blockchain and your wallet only ever contains the address (public key) that points you there.

The struggle I had with the exchange I was using to clarify this point was epic. It was no surprise to me that the support people on exchanges often have less knowledge than those asking the questions.

Once I understood that a lost or destroyed wallet could be recreated and no value was lost it became clear to me that the value was not in the wallet.

Thanks everyone... great community.

Thanks so much, this is really what I was getting at... so ones wallet software uses the private key to create a signature/hash and this is what gets transmitted over the wire, or to an exchange then? That makes sense... I just could not understand how one could transact using a private key directly.

Much appreciated.

Yes guys I totally understand that revealing my private key is bad... thats not really the crux of my question.

If sending money to an address only requires only a public key which is safe - how does one take money out of an address work - I thought the private key was required - and if its required, I would never want to send that to any web page or exchange unencrypted where they could log it and steal it.

I am trying to understand what the process of pulling my money out of bitcoin back to fiat would be.

thanks everyone.

Noob here...

To receive bitcoin all that is needed is the public key (address)

However to spend ones bitcoin or convert it back to fiat currency through an exchange it looks like one must enter a private key.

Transacting with this private key without encrypting it would be unsecure... so how does this work? Is this what a digital signature is?

I've researched this a lot and can't seem to find a clear answer.

Thanks in advance... and for your patience.