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41  Local / Italiano (Italian) / Re: NUOVO PROGETTO - CERCASI AIUTO PER LANCIO IN ITALIA on: July 04, 2011, 03:25:40 AM


Aggiungo un tuo post uguale identico con un'altro topic in un'altro forum (forse in questo forum suonava meglio "NUOVO PROGETTO  - CERCASI AIUTO PER LANCIO IN ITALIA" invece di "Come cambiare l'ecosistema del web per guadagnare di più" ?)
http://  forum.mrwebmaster.it/guadagnare-col-sito/26994-cambiare-lecosistema-web-guadagnare-pi.html
[/quote]

Si, l'atro forum è rivolto ai Web Masters. Se leggessi sul blog la serie basic staff, forse potremmo capirci.

In effetti con i Web Masters le cose funzionano diversamente. A livello di interesse intendo.
42  Local / Italiano (Italian) / Re: NUOVO PROGETTO - CERCASI AIUTO PER LANCIO IN ITALIA on: July 04, 2011, 03:18:58 AM
Beh, il progetto è illustrato sul blog.....
43  Economy / Marketplace / Re: WHERE TO SPEND BTC on: July 03, 2011, 08:14:34 PM
Your argument makes no sense at all.  There are lots of places you can buy goods/services with bitcoins.

Well, mine is not an argument at all. It is just a suggestion to have all merchants in one place. Easy for bitcoin's fans to find and spend they btc to give a boost to bts economy. Sorry if I did not made it clear in the first place.
44  Economy / Economics / Re: CAN BTC SURVIVE WITHOUT FIAT CURRENCY ? on: July 03, 2011, 08:01:11 PM
why, not enought people in this forum to promote the social network ? There are a lot of people in this forum spending a lot of time every day to support bts, give advise and so on...why not doing it in a brand new social network that at the same time could be a common place for merchants interested in accepting btc as a form of payment ? what else would be better than this for a merchant ?

Good questions. I'm curious to see what others here think...

You see, I am sure that 99.99% of the people in this forum own some btc. Either bouse they have mined them or because they have bought them on the exchange markets.

BUT ALL OF THEM ADVOCATES FOR BTC ECONOMY ............so why not ?  Make the btc economy grow by spending your btcs on merchants that accept btcs rather that waiting for the market price to go up and make a profit re selling your bts for fiat money. DO IT !!
45  Economy / Marketplace / Re: WHERE TO SPEND BTC on: July 03, 2011, 07:54:12 PM
Is there any place on the web where all merchants accepting BTC as a form of payment can actually be found and maybe advertise their offers there ?

Aside from  https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade , of course.

Thanks.

So aside from the hundreds of listed places you need some more?

My question is if there is any common place where merchants can offer goods accepting btc as a form of payment. Nothing else.

Check this discussion please.

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=25691.0
46  Economy / Economics / Re: CAN BTC SURVIVE WITHOUT FIAT CURRENCY ? on: July 03, 2011, 07:49:50 PM
Exactly !! Very good, my friend.

But a social network, does not have to focus on BTs. It is a platform to make the btc's economy flourish. With all adds from merchants that accepts bts and pay adds with bts....what's your tough ?

It could work, maybe. If merchants saw a return on their ad investment in the form of real paying customers then it could work very well in fact. But forming a new and viable social network is a tough proposition.

why, not enought people in this forum to promote the social network ? There are a lot of people in this forum spending a lot of time every day to support bts, give advise and so on...why not doing it in a brand new social network that at the same time could be a common place for merchants interested in accepting btc as a form of payment ? what else would be better than this for a merchant ?
47  Local / Italiano (Italian) / Re: NUOVO PROGETTO - CERCASI AIUTO PER LANCIO IN ITALIA on: July 03, 2011, 07:46:38 PM
Mantenete la calma Wink
Se il progetto non vi interessa, o non vi piace ... potete passare oltre.
Se pensate che sia dannoso e/o volete criticarlo ... fatelo!
Ma ci sono modi e modi

Evitate le frecciatine personali. Se attaccate la persona e non l'idea fallite in partenza.

Scusa, non so se sia rivolto a me, ma faccio notare che ho aspettato per giudicare la singola persona... in piu' di un post ha voluto  prendere in causa la mia nazione di residenza e non credo sia una gran bella cosa per me e come per molti altri italiani che frequentano il forum. A mio parere avresti dovuto intervenire in protezione di tutti noi e non della mia presa di postizione per "difendere" e "difenderci". Se quello che pensano di noi fuori dall'Italia è quello che pensa il Sig. Michele1940 credo che il mio intervento è giustificato.
Detto questo passo e chiudo, visto che oltre ad essere offtopic non c'è più interesse a suguire questa storia. Grazie.

Hey, mai io sono Italiano....e sono stato frainteso accusato di alto tradimento !! ma che diavolo stai dicendo ?? riparti dal primo post e cerca di capire. Se non ne hai voglia, ok, nessun problema. Ma io sono stato attaccato per nessun motivo !!
48  Economy / Economics / Re: CAN BTC SURVIVE WITHOUT FIAT CURRENCY ? on: July 03, 2011, 07:42:51 PM
How about a Social network where we can all discuss about BTC, invite friends and explain them what btc is, letting merchants advertise and sell only using btcs...would that be a workable idea to further develop btc economy ?

I'm not sure a Bitcoin focused social network would be viable at this point simply because the economy is too small. At the same time though, I think throwing someone to the forums here could be a bit daunting as a first introduction to bitcoin.

My advice is focus on getting merchants involved in the economy: formal brick and mortar merchants, internet merchants, mom and pop merchants, tabletop individual merchants, everyone selling something. Develop a pitch that explain what bitcoin is and how it could benefit them. Focus on benefit of bitcoin while not totally trashing the dollar since that might make you come off as loony.  Remember that every merchant that comes on board adds legitimacy to the currency and will serve to inspire consumer confidence.  Remember that the best way to convince a merchant is to show results. So offer your own goods and services for btc and show them the results YOU get and how YOU'VE invested in the currency.

Talk to friends and family about bitcoin, get them involved, evangelize a bit. Always focus on why it's a better alternative to their fiat even if you don't go into exactly what fiat is and why it's bad (many people don't care. They just know money works).

Eventually, you'll see the economy start to grow and you'll be able to buy more and more of your own needs in pure BTC with no need for conversion at all. At some point, we'll reach a tipping point and the economy will flourish.



Exactly !! Very good, my friend.

But a social network, does not have to focus on BTs. It is a platform to make the btc's economy flourish. With all adds from merchants that accepts bts and pay adds with bts....what's your tough ?
49  Economy / Economics / Re: CAN BTC SURVIVE WITHOUT FIAT CURRENCY ? on: July 03, 2011, 07:36:07 PM
CAN GOLD SURVIVE WITHOUT FIAT CURRENCY ?

Fiat currency derive from gold, actually.

see :http://www.rocketboom.com/bitcoins/
50  Local / Italiano (Italian) / Re: NUOVO PROGETTO - CERCASI AIUTO PER LANCIO IN ITALIA on: July 03, 2011, 07:32:02 PM
Seguite questa discussione se vi pare.

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=25691.0
51  Local / Italiano (Italian) / Re: NUOVO PROGETTO - CERCASI AIUTO PER LANCIO IN ITALIA on: July 03, 2011, 07:31:29 PM
Mantenete la calma Wink
Se il progetto non vi interessa, o non vi piace ... potete passare oltre.
Se pensate che sia dannoso e/o volete criticarlo ... fatelo!
Ma ci sono modi e modi

Evitate le frecciatine personali. Se attaccate la persona e non l'idea fallite in partenza.

OH finalmente. Grazie.

La conoscete quella pubblicità che recita : C'è Nesunooooooooo Huh

Grazie.
52  Economy / Economics / Re: CAN BTC SURVIVE WITHOUT FIAT CURRENCY ? on: July 03, 2011, 07:27:44 PM
Agree. So this means we just need to sit down and wait for BTC economy to grow, while posting good deeds on this forum, or we can do anything better ? Only a question not a comment to your post, please note.

One important distinction to keep in mind between bitcoin and fiat is that the bitcoin economy is evolving naturally while the fiat economy is government mandated. One reason the dollar enjoys such wide acceptance is because it's a government 'backed' currency while bitcoin isn't.

I don't think we have to sit around and post good deeds on the forum all day while we wait for the economy to expand. I think we all need to be active in the community, talking to friends about the currency, introducing it to merchants, etc. Unlike the dollar, it's not a government or regulation that's going to cause acceptance of bitcoin, it's going to be user advocacy and natural currency evolution. That takes time but it's not impossible.



How about a Social network where we can all discuss about BTC, invite friends and explain them what btc is, letting merchants advertise and sell only using btcs...would that be a workable idea to further develop btc economy ?
53  Economy / Economics / Re: CAN BTC SURVIVE WITHOUT FIAT CURRENCY ? on: July 03, 2011, 07:14:39 PM



offer goods and services for bitcoin.
[/quote]

Looks like not so many have any idea about this.

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=25693.0
54  Economy / Economics / Re: CAN BTC SURVIVE WITHOUT FIAT CURRENCY ? on: July 03, 2011, 07:10:28 PM
My provocation is as follows:

Mining does not bring any sort of benefit for the individual. Therefore you need to buy using fiat money BTCs and at the end of the game someone needs to sell BTcs for fiat money. This is far from being an ecosystem that can survive outside today’s economy which is based on fiat money.

Mining is not the only way to get bitcoins. It's not even the easiest or most profitable way. Direct trading (buying and selling) in bitcoins does not need to involve fiat in any way. If fiat went away tomorrow, I could still pay you for your product and service with bitcoins just as I could in gold.

In my mind, bitcoins are linked to fiat only for convenience. As the economy grows, the need to convert between bitcoin and fiat will lessen until, at some point, we will be able to do most business without any reliance on fiat.

Rage

Agree. So this means we just need to sit down and wait for BTC economy to grow, while posting good deeds on this forum, or we can do anything better ? Only a question not a comment to your post, please note.
55  Economy / Economics / Re: CAN BTC SURVIVE WITHOUT FIAT CURRENCY ? on: July 03, 2011, 07:06:34 PM
this has nothing to do with mining at all

once we have enough people accepting bitcoins, we have complete economic cycles in btc, wherein merchant accepts btc, then pays his supplier in btc, the supplier pays his supplier in btc, they pay their employees in btc, the employees use btc to buy stuff they need, etc.

there will still have to be some exchange into fiat for the purposes of tax payments - but that's a separate issue.

Provocation again, just for discussion :

Even if a large number of merchants would adopt btc as a form of payment ( finding it convenient according to your article ), they still will need a way to change btc into real cash. Unless, of course, the chain does not stop here and they would be able to buy from their suppliers paying with btc, go shopping for their personal needs and pay with btc and so on….
At present, btc move from the exchange market to people who buys them. From these people could move to merchants , providing there would be enough to notice this movement which, at present , is not the case, Than from merchants btc can only move back to the exchange market.
Thus for merchants adopting btc as a form of payment , ( aside from the advantages you have illustrated in this article ) could be considered as a form of investment, a speculation if you like.
This tends to limit the number of merchants interested in btc for obvious reason.
It is my opinion that , in order to boost btc economy, the final place where btc have a real tangible value, cannot be the exchange market alone.
There is nothing wrong in trying to make some extra money in speculation, but this bounds btc potential.
For example e-commerce, would be advantaged from adopting btc as a form of payment. Once the transactions are made, we will have these e-merchants loading up with btc and while they will unload their available stock of goods. Than, what ? They have to go to the exchange market and buy back fiat money in order to fill up theirs werehosues.
If btc economy is confined into this boundaries, it is very unlikely that we would see it booming up like many are expecting.
The underling concept of btc ( being a currency that allows to avoid double spending on transactions cutting of all the middle man ) remains intact even inside the boundaries I have outlined above. Merchants would have benefit from a cost free transaction on theirs sales even if they would have to buy back real cash at the end of the game.

sorry forgot to add the link to the article : http://falkvinge.net/2011/07/03/bitcoins-four-drivers-part-3-merchant-trade/#comment-87807
56  Economy / Economics / Re: CAN BTC SURVIVE WITHOUT FIAT CURRENCY ? on: July 03, 2011, 07:03:43 PM
this has nothing to do with mining at all

once we have enough people accepting bitcoins, we have complete economic cycles in btc, wherein merchant accepts btc, then pays his supplier in btc, the supplier pays his supplier in btc, they pay their employees in btc, the employees use btc to buy stuff they need, etc.

there will still have to be some exchange into fiat for the purposes of tax payments - but that's a separate issue.

Provocation again, just for discussion :

Even if a large number of merchants would adopt btc as a form of payment ( finding it convenient according to your article ), they still will need a way to change btc into real cash. Unless, of course, the chain does not stop here and they would be able to buy from their suppliers paying with btc, go shopping for their personal needs and pay with btc and so on….
At present, btc move from the exchange market to people who buys them. From these people could move to merchants , providing there would be enough to notice this movement which, at present , is not the case, Than from merchants btc can only move back to the exchange market.
Thus for merchants adopting btc as a form of payment , ( aside from the advantages you have illustrated in this article ) could be considered as a form of investment, a speculation if you like.
This tends to limit the number of merchants interested in btc for obvious reason.
It is my opinion that , in order to boost btc economy, the final place where btc have a real tangible value, cannot be the exchange market alone.
There is nothing wrong in trying to make some extra money in speculation, but this bounds btc potential.
For example e-commerce, would be advantaged from adopting btc as a form of payment. Once the transactions are made, we will have these e-merchants loading up with btc and while they will unload their available stock of goods. Than, what ? They have to go to the exchange market and buy back fiat money in order to fill up theirs werehosues.
If btc economy is confined into this boundaries, it is very unlikely that we would see it booming up like many are expecting.
The underling concept of btc ( being a currency that allows to avoid double spending on transactions cutting of all the middle man ) remains intact even inside the boundaries I have outlined above. Merchants would have benefit from a cost free transaction on theirs sales even if they would have to buy back real cash at the end of the game.
57  Economy / Economics / Re: CAN BTC SURVIVE WITHOUT FIAT CURRENCY ? on: July 03, 2011, 06:59:42 PM
1. What are you talking about?

2. Even if what you were saying made sense, not everyone who uses Bitcoin is a conspiracy theorist who is convinced that all currencies besides Bitcoin must be brought down and/or are going to crash to nothing. I highly doubt USD is going to disappear, no matter how successful Bitcoin gets. USD and Bitcoin both have their own benefits and negatives.

Totally agree on this. I am referring to the an ecosystem BTC might be able to create for its own survival. Please note I have stated this is a provocation only.
58  Economy / Marketplace / WHERE TO SPEND BTC on: July 03, 2011, 06:49:46 PM
Is there any place on the web where all merchants accepting BTC as a form of payment can actually be found and maybe advertise their offers there ?

Aside from  https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade , of course.

Thanks.
59  Economy / Economics / CAN BTC SURVIVE WITHOUT FIAT CURRENCY ? on: July 03, 2011, 06:45:14 PM
My provocation is as follows:

Mining does not bring any sort of benefit for the individual. Therefore you need to buy using fiat money BTCs and at the end of the game someone needs to sell BTcs for fiat money. This is far from being an ecosystem that can survive outside today’s economy which is based on fiat money.
60  Local / Italiano (Italian) / Re: NUOVO PROGETTO - CERCASI AIUTO PER LANCIO IN ITALIA on: July 03, 2011, 04:53:56 PM

Mi piacerebbe sapere in quale modo, secondo voi, starei cercando di ledere l'immagine di bitcoin.

Grazie



Delineando per sommi capi un progetto fumoso, accennando a problemi di sicurezza (quali? da parte di chi? riguardo a cosa?) che rende impossibile spiegare quale sia questo fantomatico progetto ma di cui mi pare di capire abbia a che vedere l'universo complottista di cui prima.
Segreti, diffidenze, strumentalizzazione del bitcoin, protagonismi e, lasciamelo dire, ciarpame complottista sono tutti argomenti che possono ledere l'immagine del bitcoin di cui al momento si vuole dare l'idea di uno strumento valido, sicuro, semplice da usare e a prova di ingerenze governative.

Hai un progetto che vorresti condividere per consigli o collaborazione? Esponilo serenamente, con traspearenza e avrai quelo che vuoi; il bitcoin non è ancora illegale e non lo sarà, quantomeno nell'immediato futuro, quindi non vedo il motivo di comportarsi altrimenti. Sei venuto qui per fare proselitismo? Credo proprio tu abbia sbagliato forum.



AHAHAHAHHA....questa poi....davvero incredibile. Ma qui in Italia riuscite solo a pensare che dietro a qualunque cosa ci siano dei complotti o roba simile. Mio caro, quante porte ti chiudi da solo. Dove vivi, in un bunker Huh

Se qualcono di voi rileggesse il titolo di questa discussione e il relativo post, forse riuscireste a capire che la mia richiesta, in via puramente preliminare, è stata formulata ed indirizzata a chiunque in Italia possa essere in grado di aiutarmi a lanciare un novo progetto sul mercato internet - Italia che , ovviamente, non conosco.

Forse non ho espresso bene il concetto nel mio post iniziale. Cercavo solo qualcuno in grado di indicarmi la strada giusta da percorrere per effettuare un lancio sul mercato italiano. Ovviamente non intendo che qualcuno mi dia informazioni su come o cosa fare senza essere lui tesso messo al corrente di ciò che indendiamo proporre al mercato. Questo lo avete concluso voi. Ho infatti invitato chiunque potesse essere interessato a contattarmi personalmente. Con indirizzo mio mail e quant'altro.

Invece voi date per scontato che ci sia di mezzo un complotto. Incredibile, davvero.

Ad ogni modo, il progetto prevede Bitcoin come suo punto focale. Quindi lungi da me il parlarne male per chissa quale fine oscuro, come voi suggerite.

Non siamo arrivati da nessuna parte. Solo insulti a modi regime. Per quale motivo poi ? Boh, ancora non lo ho capito.
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