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623
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Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more.
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on: March 21, 2013, 02:53:54 PM
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If you owned Avalon how much would you charge?
That's actually a complicated question. Are you saying if one of us was swapped right into the mess Avalon has created, what would we do? Or if we were able to control how everything went right from the beginning? I'm guessing the former.. I'd figure out the current demand and determine a price point that maximizes profitability. Simple as that. Price gouging customers isn't ever good for your business (unless you're in the Oil industry, but that's a topic for a later day)..but neither is charging below your potential, especially given the current market conditions and the company monopoly. I wouldn't be able to come up with a set price unless I knew answers to all the variables. |
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624
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Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: [POLL] Should Butterfly Labs (BFL) get a Scammer tag?
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on: March 21, 2013, 02:03:00 PM
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Lol no they haven't. Name 3 [three] people who have never received a refund from BFL..
Al Gore. Barack Obama. Sarah Palin. (You didn't say that they needed to have an order at BFL at first...) Fair point  ..but I also know it's because you can't find people who got "scammed" out of their refund who have ordered from BFL  |
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625
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Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: [POLL] Should Butterfly Labs (BFL) get a Scammer tag?
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on: March 21, 2013, 01:25:54 PM
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Unless they start denying refunds...
They kind of have done that already. Lol no they haven't. Name 3 [three] people who have never received a refund from BFL.. Why 3? . Remember when ONLY three people requested refunds from BFL? 3's the tipping point. 1 disgruntled BFL customer is generally easy to find..and I'm sure if they didn't receive their refund within 5 minutes of request they'd go around claiming "SCAM" (just look at all the BitInstant threads out there). 2 customers with refund problems could be just a fluke..or a mix between the disgruntled dumbass and someone with an actual problem. But 3 people..well that's the start of a pattern  |
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627
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Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more.
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on: March 21, 2013, 12:53:37 PM
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[...] why would ASIC vendors sell a machine for $1500 that make 6-8k a month? I think this answers the question pretty clearly, They wouldn't!
Seems you've forgotten about Batches #1 and #2... I distinctly remember BTC being worth around $6 a piece for batch 1 and a volatile $25 for batch 2. Pretty much. And now half of Batch #1 is mining at $65 pulling in $10k a month so far. Hence the original confusion... |
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628
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Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Coinbase Warning !!! (Revisited, Somewhat Resolved)
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on: March 21, 2013, 12:40:55 PM
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They could, of course, use options to secure themselves. Those that have a modicum of competence already do. Those that don't won't survive, simply because basic hedging is required, not optional.
For once I think we actually agree on something ..hedging should be necessary, especially in the kind of volatile market that these companies work in. |
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630
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Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: Coinbase Warning !!! (Revisited, Somewhat Resolved)
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on: March 21, 2013, 02:31:30 AM
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2) If selling BTC, either make sure you have them already, or that you buy them automatically at a price lower than you are selling them for. Mt. Gox has an API. Learn it. Use it. Love it.
Hmm..you do realize this causes bankruptcy, right? I'm not sure you're aware of this, but most businesses get into..well.. business..to make some sort of profit... |
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632
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Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more.
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on: March 20, 2013, 08:17:52 PM
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I assume that was the feeling. Many are finding out what happens when you deal with a principled business person.
Bwahahaha, holy shit that made me laugh. It is immensely apparent that Team Avalon has poor business experience, and for the record I have no problem with that. It's good for a company to stumble as they did, so long as they learn from their mistakes. In the end it makes you stronger. This, however, has yet to happen..hence the humor of you putting them on a pedestal. With a ROI of 6-12 months, you know they will keep the gear on the network for that time, keeps it just the much more secure.
Speaking of security, since when is vastly raising the bar to entry better for the network in the long run? Instead of thousands of people saving their pennies to make a purchase, Avalon is instead tailoring to a hundred customers who have substantial amounts of cash lying around. This sort of circles back to my comment on their "business skills"... Hope people are looking at other motives than just profits.
Dalkore, I trust you've been here long enough to understand that (for the vast majority of people) profit is, in fact, the primary motivator. |
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633
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Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more.
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on: March 20, 2013, 02:16:57 PM
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You can buy a BFL minirig for 500 btc, and delivery would probably be in the same timeframe. You can "buy" one, yes. But you are not going to get any ROI, because no working BFL ASIC hardware exists. Avalon does exist and currently running units get an insane ROI. A bit naive, don't you think? It's clear that BFL has been developing hardware..don't let their incompetence cloud your judgment. Anyway, we're not here to talk about BFL..this is an Avalon thread silly. Seriously though, people really don't have a problem paying $7,000 for a 600w+ 80GH/s device? I also find it kind of funny that the buyers from Batch #1 paid the lowest price and are making the highest return on their investment. The Batch #2 price hike was expected...it was kind of like the " Fuck you, we're legit and you missed out on the first round". But to triple the price for Batch #3 sort of solidifies the initial notion that they are indeed using preorder funds to complete the previous orders (it also fully explains why they "shipped" 2 months ago and are still behind on their first shipment). I imagine after selling out of Batch #3 they'll have enough money to get everything back on track again (financially anyways). |
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634
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Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: April Bitcoin Difficulty estimate
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on: March 19, 2013, 09:27:41 PM
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I think a more pressing worry is that BTCGuild is getting pretty close to 51% of the network due to Avalon owners. They should start to spread it around a bit I think.
Very true. On the other hand, if they do manage to get that far the news of a "51% attack" would surely panic people...probably enough for them to dump coins into the market and plummet the price...giving me a chance to buy up more below $50 again |
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635
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Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Thinking about borrowing money to buy an ASIC...
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on: March 18, 2013, 05:32:15 PM
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I am currently considering borrowing $1500 from my father to purchase an Avalon 60 GH/s ASIC mining rig. I am still debating on whether this is a good idea or not. At the current rate, I know the select few ASIC owners and operators are earning upwards of $300/day per 60 gh/s machine at the current prices. I realize that this will greatly decrease as time goes on and more people receive their rigs and the difficulty increases. Despite all this, I wonder if it will be worth it to borrow money to buy an ASIC that I likely won't receive until midsummer or later.
I'm not sure borrowing money for this sort of venture is in your best interest, solely judging by what I've read in the other posts of course (In general, I have no problem with loans for this sort of stuff). As Piramida pointed out.. Borrowing money? When you live on your own house with a wife? Sorry but sounds irresponsible to me, you should spend whatever extra money *you* do earn.
...and he's exactly right. It sounds like you're going out on a limb to purchase the "magic money making machine" with the hopes of creating a sustainable income. Though it's true that mining can produce a livable income, it's usually based on the price a Bitcoin can go for on the open market. For example, would you still be looking to purchase an Avalon if Bitcoins were only worth $1? What about $100? Whatever your answer may be (and I think we know what it is), there are thousands of other people with the same thought process. As a result, it's important to plan out how things are going to go..regardless of whether you start out mining at a difficulty of 30 million or 300 million. BitObsessed said it best with.. You have to weigh the risk to reward ratio and with Bitcoin it could be enormous. No matter what your calculations tell you I would easily double your estimate of when you think you will get your return on investment. If you are getting an ASIC then a lot of other people will too and the difficulty will go up and you will not get nearly the coins you think you will.
My advice is similar. Think long and hard about where you think the network is going to go before making your purchase. Will you regret your purchase when you receive your product 3-4 months from now and the difficulty is 10 times the current value? It doesn't matter if you're investing $1500 or $30,000, the advice is the same. Having a "Plan B" will only help you in the long run. On a side note, what made you consider purchasing from Avalon instead of Butterfly Labs? Just curious.. |
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637
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Economy / Lending / Re: Goodbye all
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on: March 17, 2013, 03:34:07 PM
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Sorry to see you leave Squall, but I do believe you'll be back someday. Bitcoin is sort of like crack..you'll jump off the bandwagon for a while, but ultimately find yourself perusing the forums in a couple months |
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