Satoshi said sth back in 2008 from where my one quote is .
So i guess the majority believes in him and it wasnt a team effort in the start.

But few still dont take his words as facts.

But when we assume that Satoshi was a team we make a claim that contradicts with what he said (see the relevant quote i gave).

Also if you see the matter from another angle it was a team project.! That s why he choose also a free license and in a broader angle he acknowledged in his paper the work of others. So it is  a team effort . I think there is a contradiction in assuming that someone made a team and then he open source it.
But we can discuss on what point others start contributing..
So i think we can make a strong argument in favor of his position that he did the paper and the initial code.

Lastly i want to repeat being curious or studying the history of  project , trying to approach its origins dispersing scam artists , myths , hypes etc is a just endeavor that can happen without compromising the  Satoshi anonymity. .  And as i said my initial stimulus was reading and seeing people using Satoshi name (i refer to the years 2015-17 and many notable claims to his identity that were accepted) with an ease that was astounding and the (i hope ) temporary download of Satoshi paper from bitcoin.org due to such claims.
So i see a danger here. If we dont try to discuss the history we leave ground for whatever claim to grow .
In that spirit the quotes i gave from Satoshi, a pretender of his legacy and a cypherpunk shed a little light to incosistent stories that circulate with such ease and help to disperse them.


Also lets dont forget that there was a lot of discussion on digital cash on cypherpunk and other crypto lists where for anyone interested you can see how ideas were tested from the best minds.
For example Adam Back once wrote how an Anonymous idea from a decade before Satoshi was in his spirit very close.
So the idea was being  worked in many minds as a team.. you could say..from 1992.

I respect the anonymity Satoshi wanted.
But the reason i dig little is because unfortunately his 'persona' was used , as  weapon in strifes
as exploitable material and that stroke me . How it is possible cypherpunks or developers so easily
to play with the name and also blame others who want to dig?

Times move forward. I think..!
So an interesting question is : Is an identity shaped in the one direction or the other?

'Satoshi-2008' is skillfull programmer and system builder. That what he said and  gave proof of work in both sides.

In 2016 a cypherpunk Z describes an identity that i tag with another name because it says that 'Satoshi-2016' was a team.
That team has as leader a certain person XY and that person had the core idea and wrote the more code.

And last person XY says he is 'Satoshi-2019' . Now that is a new tag because he claims 'Satoshi-2019' is not a team but programmers he hired and that he is not skillfull programmer and he has not build a related system . He said that in a Bitcoin Wensday conference.

So if we should lay more ground in proof of work and the time arrow then :

• 'Satoshi-2019' and 'Satoshi-2016' are identites inconsistent with Satoshi-2008
• Satoshi-2019' and 'Satoshi-2016' are  inconsistentwith each other
  
• Satoshi-2008' is not related with person XY
  .

I guess person XY or Z could make another claim , but
each inconsistent claim lowers their credibility in the matter especially if not accompanied with some kind of proof.

Satoshi on his programming skills ( 2008-11-09  from cypherpunks email list )

Cypherpunk comment on CW programmer skills (2016-05   from cypherpunks email list  )

CW (pretender of  satoshi identity from 2015) on his programming skills ( 2019-05 ):

Well .. there is also another theory ..
That bitcoin was just an evolution of an earlier working 'bitcoin'.

And that makes sense. Are we looking to a very good programmer  or
a very good programmer with experience in digital currencies?

And Satoshi chickened because he knew very well from previous experience
the troubles that an unregulated digital currency would bring . Or that is
contradictory? Maybe he stayed as long as was needed to help bootstrap
the system because he knew that that was essential. Where that knowledge
came from? Only from a practical background i guess. And the Wikileaks
was just an excuse to back off unharmed.

So that other theory of mine is less hippie, less cypherpunk but maybe closer
to the truth. But i dont like it because if the bitcoin soul has not many hippie shards
that means that the golem can steal it and hold it in his hand without a serious burn...
(ironically .. isnt that exactly what is happening now in front of our eyes and screens..?)

Of course the 'cypherpunks driven lets give greedy banks a lesson ' theory and the 'cyphermammons driven avoid jail this time ' theory
maybe do overlap on some extent. Maybe without intentions they help eachother..

Alas the later theory brings disenchantment to many users and will break the current story that drives partly the system.
Because it  raises the question whether the bitcoin affair was just an iteration of previous attempts that the goverment and
the crime brought down.

if Satoshi was less idealized driven then cypherpunks not only lost to get there first but they are driven down the mud .
Also if that theory is right the choosen pseudoname was just smoke .

And the cyphermamons theory offers also a sound explanation of the golem affair . The bitcoin is their project. The losers are not
entitled to speak. So  in silence , they wonder from conference to conference with a frozen heart.And the winners they prefer
to create more smoke . That was as essential part of their later successfull iteration. To be well hidden. So they help. They dont
give a dime for academia integrity , ideals or truth.
They are hardened cyphermamons enjoying finally their success having delived a heavy blow to their advedsaries. King Midas rejoice..

I have another theory.
What if Shatoshi gave up.. in a way that he doesnt care ?

He saw that kicking the hornet's nest will bring trouble .

He also saw that the vitality and passion of cypherpunks was transforming into
something more akin to  goldrush mentality and that the community they were
propably seeing  was an illusion.

I mean he stopped in an non orderly way. And there are cypherpunks who have
expressed likewise , turning their back to the 'experiment'. Bitcoin is just
a laye they say.. lets move on and let golem play. Who cares?

Well .. maybe a father should care where he leaves his child.
(so i bet that definately not a woman).
(is that childish of me... i mean look at the precursors.. bitgold , bmoney , E-gold , ,,,
seriously what did we expect the next try to be. e-fairy or bitlove ..? So maybe the digital money people
lacked sth that could breakthrough, sth that only an idealist cypherpank could pull througth..)

And in that way a trait of their character surfaced that is little childish.

Programmers know how many negative traits have been attributed to RMS and Linus.
And although they are not perfect thay definately didnt turn their back.

Well .. that may be unfair. Maybe the nature of the project is the kind  one that acts like a honeypot
attracting organized interests far beyond a small's team strengths. (ironically thats why
that team should be a cypherpunk team!).

Another irony  is that golem could be the kind of leader that the current crypto prevailing gist needs.(lets face it ..in a healthy community golem wouldnt have a chance.. now he threats to steal its soul  ,developers  kneel before his claims put him in their papers and give him face).Reports for example say that washtrading in many exchanges is the norm.
The gist of a wild crypto west where newbies are seen as beatemup sacks and as cows (in the best case) and  the word community has been replaced for the childish idea of 100% sovereignty . Even Wild animals dont do 100% sovereignty .

A sad hippy cypherpunk soul wandering aimlessly and feeling  alienated in a crypto wild west that he helped to be created.

Cypherpunks out there ,i ask you :
Can anything positive come out if golem steal the cypherpunk soul of the bitcoin?
Even if bitcoin is meant to become a basic layer for something bigger and better in the future
doesnt that means that is even more important to reinstate and revitalize its cypherpunk core and let it project it's glow in the future reestablishing its legacy?

Seriously do you want our children in the future to learn in school  that the foundations of the digital new world was laid by golem? Are you nuts? Even Falken rethinked at the end..

Well, i think i have been educated . Thank you.

But it seems there are people who find it more practical . to just warn new users.

https://www.klaytn.com/ 


It reminds  me of similar security messages i get so often from my fiat ebank when i log on.
Is that to much for a crypto community to do ?

Isnt there a contradiction in expecting a newbie to get educated decisions?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?vEQUALTiGzX-Imhb0

i put EQUAL instead of =

It plays over one hour. This time toutube is slow.. again.
Look the balance: https://cardanoscan.io/address/01364eb15c2868d6bd797f0c12ac7a5870ea99a5768ce5205cf5a3b7d26775dc347b6e75b9986ae593d9847643365e29a3bc6a25250a7a1f52

archive:  https://archive.ph/In8j9

namecheap , youtube , cardano just watch i guess new crypto users getting kicked ...

Finally... youtube stopped it. Some folks lost 73000 ADA , but as an arguments goes 'they have to get a lesson in 100% sovereignty..
Because thats the standard way to treat cryptonewbies.. beatthemup.

Mr Cardano as i saw in a not scam video two days ago  (... i think it was no scam .. how can i be sure i dont know .. could be a deep fake of him ..) announced a task force where beatenup cryptonewbies can be given  advice on how to report of what has happened to them!! Brr... scammers are trembling from  laughters propably..
So he announces it in youtube that did also such a bad job to protects its accounts. So why not announce it in cardano storefront still evades my logic.

Should i keep refreshing my youtube feed to also learn , as he promised , the first findings after two weeks ?

How serious can it be to announce such an initiative from a video site that has distilled doubt and fear to me for the authenticity of its content .
A video site that he was ready to take it to justice... as other crypto leaders did.

Well as they say , better late that never. Even after one year. .. Even after 400.000.000 atleast ADA have been stolen. Thats a nice productive stake...

https://archive.ph/1EpI7
Fake live feed of a prominent Eth  developer embedded in a static background with the giveaway adress.
Well YouTube just banned the video.
I think they are becoming more fast.
Thats good.

What is not good is that after one year of attacks (more years back if we count twitter attacks) they dont feel a need to warn their users in a more permanent way.
I still found that ethically questionable. All the main cryptos sites shuold put an small warning when someone first
visits their sites.

Trying to automate a response procedure i did the following:

• I report the addresses in https://scam-alert.io/
• and took snapshots : https://archive.ph/1EpI7  ,  https://archive.ph/Ix0Z
• https://www.whois.com/whois/crypto-gifts.net

Also i wonder how valuable is the info that you can get on the ip or traceroute behind the domain.
Does geolacation has any value?

I have fallen for a ADA gateway site. I have downloaded the site . But  unfortunately cardano commynity after a 10 month scam attacks stil
doent have a db of rogue adresses or any task force. They said what is done is done.

So i am curious , is there a way to track their ip or ipv6 or it is a last cause?

I've heard the 100% sovereignty argument before.
But i think it hides responsibilities of other actors more powerfull  in the cryptosystem and ofcourse of youbube and
could be an excuse of inertia and indifference.

I think every tech has its supporters and its newcomers.

So pointing the finger to the responsibility of a newcomer is founded when a community/organization has
done sth to warn or educate. So has he? I think the last 10 months speak ofthemselves.
Dirty addresses in cardano have touched 360.000.000 ada  atleast.

I feel that in our case there is relactancy to warn because there is greed and fomo in equal scales
to supporters as newcomers.

Meaning, that warnings could put a tag to the business as not newbie friendly and scare people away and press prices.

So i find it at least questionable when a  cryptonetwork  attract  newcomers by nice stories but hides
an attack on the same newcomers .

Taking into accounts some recent events a think another possible apocalypse could be caused by poisoing the blockchain with
dirty addresses that would lead to over ligitation that would spiral price to 2010 levels.

A few days ago i fell for a ADA giveaway scam on youtube.
Casually at the end of my workday i relax watching youtube videos ( i dont have an account) so
i refresh , see what the 'algorithm' thinks i'd like to see and learn and have fan.
I was searcing for ADA lately so i clicked to see Mr. Hoskinson spaeking  on a ''live'' event embedded
in an image linking to adaget site .  

Believe me or not i tried to search the cardano explorer for the txs listed. But i was under the spell
to 'Hurry' . So enchanted i dropped the effort and fell while  a part of me urged me to doublecheck the urgency , combined
with the youtube 'relaxed' mind state made my defenses vanish. Also lets dont forget the prevailing sentiments of greed
and fomo that are common to cryptousers.

And the funny is secs after i hit the send button i awoke , i understand.
I emailed for abuse where i thougth was appropriate.

Now imagine my surprise when i learnt that the youtube scam is a year old!
Wozniak and Ripple Labs have sued youtube july 2020.
That put me in thoughts.. if google and youtube over a year cant track those criminals what chances do i have?

And Hoskinson scam also are 8 months old.

So some questions for discussion:

•  Do you think that youtube , cardano , ripple labs . or exchanges should put more permanent warnings to their sites , wallets etc?
• If a person can beyond reasonable doubt prove that from his address the crypto have sinked to an adress should a crypto network has the ability to freeze it?
• How is possible a scheme of such a large scale and long duration be untraceable to a tech giant? Are the difficulties of tech nature only?
• Is there a websurfing  security product out there that managed to better warn youtubers?
  

But isnt it too much to ask from newcomers to a crypto to be able to cope with elaborate scam that involves youtube hijacking , (let me remind when you watch youtube you are in a mood to learn , have fun), by displaying videos of public Cardano persons embedded in frames to link to the scam sites, site designed to exploit the general fomo and greed that are the prevailing emotions even to old crypto users?

So isnt theres a  line when propably a community should raise a red flag (with a permanent warning to its main etrance points : main sites , wallets , videos from their public personas etc)? Even if that means a temp price decline?

Is it ethical to promote a crypto  with round and nice images  while you know a major elaborate scam is taking place?

As a newcomer to ADA , i fell for a scam youtube website .
Using https://cardanoscan.io i managed to trace my ADA to an address that has 140.000.000 ADA.
So lets call this a dirty address.
I found another connected to that with 220,400,019.
So that is 360.000.000 dirty little ada ... 

I write to express my wonder when i learned that the scam site business  is rolling a year now , and the cardano community have trouble stopping it.
For  their defense even youtube seems that cant stop those scam videos.

So is there hope? Have other coins had coordinated scam site attacks with that duration and if yes  how did they manage to contain it?

Kali xronia!!
Ellinas!! alla paizo poly me keyboards layouts kai einai madara to plhktroligio mou.Sorry gia ta greeklish.
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