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1381  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: [BOUNTY: 2.0 BTC] Message Signing in Armory on: April 25, 2013, 04:14:51 PM
I'm interested. In how much time this needs to be done?

I'd like to have it done in a couple weeks.  But if there are snags and it can't be done before then, I guess there's not much I can do, eh?  But if you look at the RFC, it doesn't look like it will be terribly difficult.  Especially in python.
1382  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Armory - Discussion Thread on: April 25, 2013, 04:13:28 PM
Hello,
(Not sure if the right place to discuss this.)
Why can't a transaction be created and signed in offline mode?
I understand that for it to reach the network must be sent to the network in online mode, but I see no reason why you could create a unsigned transaction in offline mode.
Thanks for answering, and for the software too.

You have to have access to the blockchain in order to create transactions.  This is why prior attempts at offline wallets (before Armory) have usually involved synchronizing the 6 GB blockchain with the offline computer.  Every transaction you do, would require taking the latest X-hundred MB of blockchain to the offline computer and letting it index it before it could make the transactions. 

However, Armory has implemented this "the simpler" way, which is that the online system can transfer just the critical information needed for signing, to the offline computer.  The offline computer gets just enough information to know that what it's signing is legitimate, but it couldn't have made that transaction itself.

The end result is that the way it is designed is simpler all around, even though it has the slightly non-intuitive "feature" that you can't see your balance or create transactions offline.  You can think of the offline computer as a very important person sitting in a vault.  He doesn't know how much money is in the account, but he has signing authority for your money. When you execute the process, you are going into the vault with a pre-filled check and saying "Hey dude, can I get your signature on this?"  He says "You do realize this check is sending 100 BTC to address X, right?"  "Yeah, I approve".  Then he signs it and gives it back to you.  You leave the vault and go to the bank to deliver the check.
1383  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Improving Offline Wallets (i.e. cold-storage) on: April 25, 2013, 03:55:11 AM
Something just hit slashdot today, that I don't totally understand.  But it's definitely reinforcing my paranoia about serial ports:

http://threatpost.com/open-serial-port-connections-to-scada-ics-and-it-gear-discovered/

I'll just let others put that into context for me...

(My understanding is that these serial ports were exposed to the internet, and that no precautions were taken to secure them ... and thus something like tty-logins were trivial to execute from anywhere)
1384  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: How do Paper Wallets work? I'm completely mystified on: April 25, 2013, 03:41:13 AM
Unfortunately, that's the "cost" of security.  Some would argue that the alternatives are really not that insecure.  And they're kind of right.  But Bitcoin-Qt/bitcoind is the gold standard of network security (kind of, by definition, but doesn't matter).  So that's what I gotta go with to make sure that Armory users don't end up on arbitrary hard forks due to subtle bugs in some reimplementation detail. 

I'm working on making it smoother... but I got a ways to go, yet...

1385  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / [BOUNTY - 2.0 BTC] Message Signing in Armory on: April 25, 2013, 02:59:46 AM
I have a 2 BTC bounty out.  I figured I'd get wider appeal here than on the Armory subforum: 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=179422.0

Please respond there if you are interested.  I really don't think this will be hard, I just have too many other things I'm focusing on.  And someone else requested that this be open-licensed, so that it could be shared with other clients.   I'd probably request that the end result go out into public domain.  After all, it's following public domain spec...

1386  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: [BOUNTY: 2.0 BTC] Message Signing in Armory on: April 25, 2013, 02:57:10 AM
Raised the bounty to 2 BTC!
1387  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Armory - Discussion Thread on: April 24, 2013, 08:48:32 PM
I'm still at 0.88 and I think it's been working fine (Windows 7 x64).  I noticed some folks on here have some issues with 0.88.1.  Should I hold on the update til the next release then?

Thanks for the link.

0.88.1 should be no worse than 0.88.  It is literally just a couple lines of code different to address some stupid bugs that slipped by me.  One of those bugs is importing private keys into encrypted wallets.  If you don't need to do that, then you can stay on 0.88.
1388  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: How do Paper Wallets work? I'm completely mystified on: April 24, 2013, 07:52:47 PM
No no no.  Thank you for your patience!  I'm surprised your still beating your head against it after the troubles you reported.  For reference, I think most users have less difficulty than that.  The program wouldn't be very popular if everyone had to go through it.  So you probably got unlucky.  Or had too little RAM (yeah... the major upgrade I'm working on is making it much more lightweight)

There is the Offline Wallet Tutorial.  It's kind of wordy.  We're working on an illustrated tutorial with screenshots right now.

Just bear in mind, up until this point, I've been the only person developing Armory.  So, keeping up with the website has been a little ... low priority.  Thanks again for your patience.  Please continue this conversation over in the Armory subforum.
1389  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: How do Paper Wallets work? I'm completely mystified on: April 24, 2013, 07:35:13 PM
Nope, aint gonna work. Your site says it's for 10.8, my little laptop is runnng OSX 10.7

 Sad

Oh please try it anyway.  It turns out that it does work on some 10.7.  I thought it was 10.8, but some 10.7'ers reported success.  I still haven't figured out the conditions that cause it to not work.
1390  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: How do Paper Wallets work? I'm completely mystified on: April 24, 2013, 07:28:29 PM
I asked if the 64 bit thing was the problem and you said 'Yeah.'

 Undecided

Alternatively it could just be this POS computer. It's the worse computer I've ever owned in my life, crashes 4 or 5 times a day and it's only 2 months old. It's actually LESS reliable than the 3 year old computer I was replacing.

My next PC will be a Mac.

Does Armory work on Mac? Yay! It doe.... ah. Sort of.

I got so sick of this new machine freezing up (and absolutely HATE Windows 8 ) that I bought a 2nd hand MacBook Pro, to ease my transition to Macs. Lemme try installing on that..


Only recently was I able to add support for OSX, and it's not universal.  No guarantees that it works, there.  But there is a downloader on the site.
1391  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Armory - Discussion Thread on: April 24, 2013, 07:20:31 PM
Is it also necessary or a good idea to keep the offline Armory up to date when new releases/versions are available?


I haven't updated mine in a while. I don't think it's really necessary unless there are bugs fixed or features added, but most often the changes seem to be in the online GUI.

Offline Armory rarely needs to be updated, unless there's some interface improvements that you prefer (which 0.88 did have).  But it's rarely worth the trouble.  Even though version 0.61 is freakin' ancient, it would still work as the offline version, because the protocol for exchanging transactions to sign hasn't changed. 

Only when I finish making the new wallets will you have to upgrade, and only if you use the new wallets.  Though, at some point I might deprecate BIP 10, thus eventually requiring you update the offline computer to be able to read the new *.unsigned.tx files.


Will it then be specified that the offline installation must be updated with a particular release/version?  I'm not aware of the "new wallets"; I just started using Armory recently.  What are the key features/improvements of the new wallets compared to the old ones?

BTW, thank you etotheipi and chrisrico for your respective reply.

Yeah, I usually put it in the release notes, whether you should upgrade the offline computer.  And by "usually", I mean "I will" because I don't think I've had to do it yet.  Ever.

There's a few scattered posts talking up the new wallets.  Here's one of them.  But they are on hold while I deal with some of the usability issues.   I decided that usability was more important while Bitcoin was booming, than the new wallet format.  Unfortunately, usability may have actually declined with the last release... I hope I can iron that all out Undecided
1392  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: How do Paper Wallets work? I'm completely mystified on: April 24, 2013, 07:13:34 PM
Well that sucks.
Thanks anyway.
A.


Wait what?  It does work.  Just use 32-bit.  It works on all architectures.
1393  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: How do Paper Wallets work? I'm completely mystified on: April 24, 2013, 06:23:45 PM
Uninstalled the QT client, tried downloading again..

http://bitcoin.org/en/download

This only gives us Windows users the option of a file called bitcoin-08.1.win32setup

"win32"?

I'm running Windows 7 64 bit - is that the problem?


 Huh


Yeah.   There is only one version of the clients for each Bitcoin and Armory.  32-bit runs fine on 64 bit arch as long as it doesn't use more than 4GB RAM
1394  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Is there any plan to support crowdfunding (Assurance contracts) on armory? on: April 24, 2013, 06:01:32 PM
Why hasn't this been done in any bitcoin client yet?
Maybe we could crowdfund armory to support crowdfund?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contracts#Example_3:_Assurance_contracts

It was kind of in my long-term plans.  Armory doesn't have the features needed to execute those types of transactions, and neither does any other software.  It's something I'd like to pioneer, but I have other pressing issues at the moment.  It is something I'll do eventually, though...

1395  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Getting tired of uninstalling and reinstalling... on: April 24, 2013, 04:02:46 PM
Okay... The runtime error I get will only happen if armory runs and windows is forced to go into the lock screen. It does not happen right away but after 10minutes or so in the lock screen, armory is terminated with a runtime error.

Strange.

Ahh, I bet the harddrives spin down and/or the network connection is disabled.  That would most certainly mess with Armory.  I don't even know what would happen...

I have sleep/hibernate/spin-down disabled on all my systems, so I would never notice...
1396  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: How do Paper Wallets work? I'm completely mystified on: April 24, 2013, 02:14:22 PM
Nope.

My PC froze up/crashed the first time, 2nd time it took about 15 mins to get back online, including a 4 minute wait for it to scan my transaction history. I've never made a transaction in my life.  Huh

I can see this is probably quicker, and cheaper, than driving into town and depositing cash into some bank to send. And it's semi-anon', so there's that. For making micro-payments though, such as paying to view webpages or an online tip jar? No-one is gonna hang around for 10 or 20 mins while their wallet opens.

For savings it makes sense I guess but I don't think I could use this as my day to day wallet, but if you're NOT using it daily then it takes even longer to start up.

Mmm.

All right for paper wallet savings kind of thing I guess. Penalty for early withdrawal? You have to wait. And wait. Then wait some more.

Anyway, sorry for clogging the thread with my musings and mumblings (grumblings).  Undecided

OK, question - if I download the bitaddress.org web page, create a key pair offline, print off the secret key and use Multibit, entering just the public key, what's wrong with that? How exactly is this QT client and armory thing better than that?

Or is that a really dumb question?

Sounds like you and Armory weren't meant to be together.  The initial download will still be required, but the rest of it will be improving dramatically in the near future.  Reduced resource usage and near-instant startup time.

The reason to use Armory is that when you create the offline wallet, you can put the watching-only wallet on your online computer and it behaves identically to a regular wallet.  You can generate millions of addresses, without the private keys on the online computer, and you can verify incoming payments just like a regular wallet.  The key feature is that spending the coins from the offline wallet only takes 1-2 minutes with a USB key to get the signature from the offline computer. 

Lots of people have figured out how to put their private keys offline and try to watch them from the online computer.  But no one else has figured out how to actually make that wallet usable.  If it requires any command-line, or re-distribution/synchronization of data between online and offline, it's inferior to Armory.  But obviously, Armory has some work to do on the other dimensions of usability.

1397  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Armory - Discussion Thread on: April 24, 2013, 01:39:47 PM
Is it also necessary or a good idea to keep the offline Armory up to date when new releases/versions are available?


I haven't updated mine in a while. I don't think it's really necessary unless there are bugs fixed or features added, but most often the changes seem to be in the online GUI.

Offline Armory rarely needs to be updated, unless there's some interface improvements that you prefer (which 0.88 did have).  But it's rarely worth the trouble.  Even though version 0.61 is freakin' ancient, it would still work as the offline version, because the protocol for exchanging transactions to sign hasn't changed. 

Only when I finish making the new wallets will you have to upgrade, and only if you use the new wallets.  Though, at some point I might deprecate BIP 10, thus eventually requiring you update the offline computer to be able to read the new *.unsigned.tx files.

1398  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Getting tired of uninstalling and reinstalling... on: April 24, 2013, 01:33:44 PM
Well... kind of the same error on my side. Windows 8 64bit, Armory 88.1. Armory starts fine and does all the bitcoind and transaction scanning. After leaving it alone (=close it to the tray) for some time it terminates itself with the same runtime error message that opentoe posted. Started with Armory 0.88.

But do you have to reinstall it when you restart it? 

Ugh.  I'm working diligently on the next major upgrade, which I'm hoping will resolve all these issues.  Sounds like I need to do this ASAP.
1399  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Reminder: zero-conf is not safe; $1000USD reward posted for replace-by-fee patch on: April 24, 2013, 12:50:48 AM
One last thing to consider is that, in #1 the exchange is usually happening between parties that have never met and have zero-trust (or at least one direction has zero trust).  Merchant has zero trust of this random customer that just walked into the store.
Why is this assumed to be true? Credit cards have proven that you can calculate a non-zero amount of trust for a large group of people. In fact, "pay-what-you-want" schemes, where each customer is trusted completely have also shown to be somewhat successful. Not everyone needs a system that requires zero-trust, so why should they be forced into one? Because of things like successful "pay-what-you-want" schemes working well-enough, I suspect that even if this patch was included in every Bitcoin client, some merchants would still depend on zero-conf transactions because they trust that their users will usually not reverse their transactions. A music store, for instance, might do that. All this would do is weaken the system.

Because that was the goal of Bitcoin, to remove the requirement for pre-existing trust between transacting parties without a third-party.  That's how it's advertised.  I have no dispute with your statement that a lot of transactions happen right now that don't actually require zero-trust.  But if the system fails to meet that criteria in some contexts (like expecting your transaction to be replaced when it actually may not), users should be uniquely aware that it's not a good option for zero-trust situations.

Trust can go to zero as confirmations go to infinity.  But before inifinite confirmations, you have to have a trade-off between that security and the convenience/functionality.  The point of my post was to state the revelation that rapidly-adjusted micropayments are not trustless the way it was originally suggested.  It's critical to know that the next time I transact with someone in Nigeria, I do not use that technique.  

Your point is that it's not useless.  I agree -- I don't think it's useless.  I just think it's worth mentioning that it shouldn't be used in zero-trust situations.  And luckily, most people who would be using this, already have some degree of trust.  So it's not so bad, just use it carefully.
1400  Bitcoin / Armory / Re: Getting tired of uninstalling and reinstalling... on: April 23, 2013, 11:52:20 PM
I've had to to uninstall and then reinstall the armory 5 times in the past week. This is getting ridiculous. Is there a way I can go back to the old version or something?

This is the error I always get.

Really?  So you reinstall, and it works for some time, but then next time you open it gets that error? 

Obviously, that is not intended behavior.  I'm not aware that it needed to be done more than once (when you upgrade from the previous version).

If you want to go back to the previous version, you can go to the googlecode downloads page:  https://code.google.com/p/bitcoinarmory/downloads/list
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