Just thought I'd cross post this here... A friend of mine has been following the discussion regarding SilkRoad and decided to check it out. He emailed me this blurb from the "new listing" page. Restrictions Please do not list forged documents including fake ids, passports, and counterfeit currency. Please do not list anything who's purpose is to harm or defraud, such as stolen credit cards, assassinations, and weapons of mass destruction (chemical/bio weaponry, nukes, and anything used to make them). * See below for details * These restrictions are in place for both practical and idealogical reasons. Practically speaking, there are many powerful adversaries of Silk Road and if we are to survive, we must not take them all on at once. Additionally, if you try to please everyone, you will wind up pleasing no one. So certain things are restricted just so we don't scare too many off. On a moral level, we take the high road, pun intended  . Those who seek to control the behavior of their neighbors through force are immoral. Silk Road exists to circumvent that force and provide a safe-haven where civilized people can come together in peace for mutual benefit. To allow listings of items designed to defraud or harm innocent people would be to stoop to the level of the very people we are standing up to. If you are unsure about a listing, just drop us a line and we'll let you know. |
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A friend of mine has been following the discussion regarding SilkRoad and decided to check it out. He emailed me this blurb from the "new listing" page. Restrictions Please do not list forged documents including fake ids, passports, and counterfeit currency. Please do not list anything who's purpose is to harm or defraud, such as stolen credit cards, assassinations, and weapons of mass destruction (chemical/bio weaponry, nukes, and anything used to make them). * See below for details * These restrictions are in place for both practical and idealogical reasons. Practically speaking, there are many powerful adversaries of Silk Road and if we are to survive, we must not take them all on at once. Additionally, if you try to please everyone, you will wind up pleasing no one. So certain things are restricted just so we don't scare too many off. On a moral level, we take the high road, pun intended . Those who seek to control the behavior of their neighbors through force are immoral. Silk Road exists to circumvent that force and provide a safe-haven where civilized people can come together in peace for mutual benefit. To allow listings of items designed to defraud or harm innocent people would be to stoop to the level of the very people we are standing up to. If you are unsure about a listing, just drop us a line and we'll let you know. |
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PM's are a play on armageddon where the whole internet gets junked b/c of severe worldwide depression and deflation. this would do btc in for sure. i just don't think we get that bad, altho it IS going to get bad.
I've never quite understood this. If we're talking a Mad Max type situation, is anybody going to want gold, except perhaps for its industrial uses? I think oil, food, or other useful consumables will be in much higher demand. |
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So what's the deal with the automatic rescanning? Sipa mentioned it in IRC.
I use a program that allows me to switch between wallets easily. They are stored encrypted, and when one is opened, it extracts to the data directory. I have been forcing a rescan every time I open Bitcoin because if blocks are downloaded with one wallet, the other wallets won't recognize their transactions in those blocks otherwise.
Do I no longer need to -rescan every time I open Bitcoin, saving me a few minutes each time?
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It is simultaneously a bubble, and not a bubble. Only once we observe it (from the future) will we know for sure...
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Turtles all the way down!
SunAvatar, for what it's worth, I think it's a great idea. The private production of law and law enforcement, especially on the internet, is inevitable (in my opinion).
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@BitterTea I've read the article. That "incidental feature" was important enough to name the concept after, so I hardly see the difference. Yeah, on the one hand I'm not sure why I made that remark. On the other hand, an assassination pool could form out of a death pool without the operator even knowing or intending, the only thing required is an anonymous payout method. |
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Seems things are rallying too fast. Here are some reason why bitcoin could crash. The terms you use are nebulous. How do you know it's "rallying too fast". How do you define a Bitcoin "crash"? 1. If you trade in bitcoins you still have to find a buyer of them if you want a pizza. Thus you will have to use a service to exchange your money to dollars on their terms. If you drive to a bitcoin meet-up you are still wasting gas to do the exchange. You will have a middleman more often. This is only true so long as things are not sold directly for Bitcoins. As more individuals and business adopt it as a payment method, this will be less and less of an issue. 2. There is a risk of lost, stolen, or disk failure wallets. Yes you can lose your wallet in real life, but you usually find it under the bed. If you encrypt and back up your wallet, this should not really be an issue. It would be very helpful if there were robust tools to enable this. Additionally, there are many ways to lose physical money that don't apply to Bitcoin. 3. Shops are slow in adjusting prices, if the price rises and their store might have prices that are 2 months old and they seem expensive. What if prices crash 90% will the shop honor the price? I doubt it they buy all their materials in USD, CAD, RUB, or EUD. Retailers can peg their prices to an exchange. Right now there is still a very low volume on the exchange, and prices fluctuate, but that's the cost of accepting Bitcoins right now. The upside is that the exchange rate could potentially be much higher, and they are quite easy to accept. Again, this is only an issue while prices are first set in USD, and then converted to BTC. 4. There is no record of exchange. What if you buy a car and you go to pick it up and there is no car or address? You are out 10,000 BTC. If you buy something over the internet even for 1 BTC, if they don't send it you are out of luck. Everyone has copy of the block chain. You can indeed prove that you sent 10,000 BTC to the address specified by the seller. Using ClearCoin or other escrow services, and only trading with trusted individuals (see the OTC WOT) can mitigate risks of fraud. 5. The churning of your hard-drive is already annoying to run the bitcoin client. If the economy gets 10x bigger that churning is going to be 10x bigger. Are there any stats to Mb per day you waste on hard disk space? What about bandwidth? I agree, this can be annoying. There are two types of clients that exist in theory but not practice. The first is the light weight client, which only downloads block headers. This would be a big improvement over the standard clients, which has to store full blocks. There is also the ultra-lightweight client which would need to store even less information, but would require some method of receiving data outside the normal Bitcoin channels. 6. In the end you might have to end up using a bitcoin bank anyways where you store your bitcoins to take the risk out of lost wallets. Then you run the risk that the goldsmiths, take your money and spend it loans and blow. There's nothing wrong with Bitcoin banks, not even fractional reserve ones. Before central banking, banks were kept from inflating the money supply too much by the threat of bank runs. It would be the same for BTC backed bank notes, as there is and can be no central reserve to create Bitcoins out of thin air. 7. There is always the risk of someone destroying the network or finding a flaw and taking the system down. Since BTC could be used for money laundering, it might be a big goal of the governments of the world to take it down. That is true, but Bitcoin was designed to be resistant to attacks. Cryptographic breaks would most likely also apply to all other financial transactions as well, so I don't see it as a big thing. As far as governments go, I rather doubt they will be able to wield much of their power at Bitcoin. They may label it as a haven of terrorists, pedophiles, and money launderers, but I think it will be too late by the time they bring out the propaganda machine. 8. What if people stopped mining BTC, or the euphoria of a deflationary currency would people lose interest in it? I don't think these are very likely scenarios. |
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@creighto
I think it's against me
I don't want to bother any of you.
I've learned many things during the thread and I want to thank you for that. I'll follow Mashuri's advice of reading about austrian economics and maybe after that, I can explain my ideas in a less annoying way for all of you. Probably those ideas will change or at least order themselves a little bit. After that I may need to re-read Gesell too.
I still find the subject "potential problems of inflation and deflation in a free market economy with a stable monetary base" very interesting.
Don't get mad, I'm not that bad. I don't know who wrote that, but I'm sure we have more in common than he thinks.
jtimon, I really appreciate your attitude in this discussion. I can be an asshole and/or blunt sometimes, but I try to have productive disagreements whenever possible. It makes it so much easier when the other person is at least willing to do some research on the issue at hand. Thanks for being a good sport!  |
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My only suggestion would be a "copy to clipboard" icon/link next to the funding address (I need to do that for ClearCoin, too-- haven't looked into how to do it yet, but github does it so I know it can be done...) As far as I know, the only way to do this universally across browsers and operating systems is to use a flash object.  Clippy is what github uses: https://github.com/mojombo/clippy |
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While I am sympathetic to the voluntaryist ideology, I just don't think rational debate is possible.
Hence, "Politics is the mindkiller".
I think you're taking the Less Wrong article a little too literally, and in fact it seems to me that you are committing the same error of which it is warning. Your Blue/Green position is that rational debate is impossible. So you jump into otherwise somewhat rational debates and state that rational debate is not possible. Why not just go read something else instead? If you truly think rational debate is impossible, you shouldn't be attempting to convince us so. |
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The other interesting thing is, although the person you are arguing with rarely changes his position, people reading threads DO change their positions more.
Exactly! Debates are about putting forth arguments that are convincing to the audience, not the debaters. |
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It's difficult to think of prices in terms of BTC, due to a few factors... All of my expenses are denominated in USD. The psychological issue of "delayed overpayment". What happens if the exchange rate settles at $100/BTC, well that just means I paid $70000 for a OLPC! Anyway, let's do it. I'll take that C1 for 76 BTC shipped. I'll PM you my details. |
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These debates are a waste of time.
Arguments are soldiers in political argument. Politics is the mindkiller, etc. Kiba, I appreciate that you are ideologically agnostic, but these debates such as these do have a purpose. As a Voluntaryist, this is one of the few methods available to me to affect change. I'll let the copypasta do the talking for me... Voluntaryism is at once an end, a means, and an insight. It signifies the goal of an all voluntary society, one in which all interaction between individuals is based on voluntary exchange, and thus calls for the abolition of the State. Voluntaryism represents a way of achieving significant social change without resort to politics or violent revolution. Since voluntaryists recognize that government rests on mass acquiescence (the voluntaryist insight), they conclude that the only way to abolish government power is for the people at large to withdraw their cooperation. As a means, voluntaryism calls for peaceful persuasion, education, individual civil disobedience, and group nonviolent resistance to the State. Since voluntaryists see a direct connection between the means they use and the end they seek, they realize that only voluntary means can be used to attain the truly voluntary society. People cannot be coerced into being free. The very goal of an all voluntary society suggests its own means. The voluntaryist insight provides the only logical and consistent way of achieving liberty and abolishing the State. |
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No it wouldn't. We'll just use nanobitcoins or something...
Jtimon claimed that if deflation happened to the USD (haha), the Fed would just print .000000001 dollar bills. I was refuting this claim. |
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Eventually it will hit a genius who will invent something to make it so it does not matter what other people think, and we can live our lives without interference. Satoshi? Bitcoin? |
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I do not agree with the assumption that anarchy must devolve into statism.
1) A failed state is chaos, not anarchy.
2) A state derives its power from the consent of the people.
3) If that consent is withdrawn, the state has no power.
4) If anarchy provides a better life for people, they will protect it.
So, my plan is to attempt to convince as many people as I can that anarchy is preferable to statism. It probably won't happen in my lifetime, though I am cautiously optimistic that we'll see some small steps in that direction, especially due to the internet and (perhaps) Bitcoin. All that is required is a critical mass of individuals to ignore the state, and it will cease to have any power at all. There are many ways which an anarchy might protect itself from the aggression of other states - the use of miliatias, private defense organizations, assassination politics, etc.
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If They Would Just 'Legalize It' it would have never come to this. Quoted for truth. Plus Our Products Have Currently 6 months of product testing, with no ER visits or Poison Control Center Phone Calls. You've stated what the active ingredient isn't. Can you tell us what it is? |
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The state monopoly of legal violence is there only because enough people accept it. It's not like the state (or a private company) could violently keep all the citizens under its power. +1 The Voluntaryist insight - "All power ultimately derives from consent, whether it be willingly given or based on reluctant compliance or that derived from strict enforcement of governmental law." |
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All, I highly recommend reading this article. Don't be put off by the title, the point is that it makes no sense to talk about "anarcho-capitalism" or "anarcho-socialism", there is just anarchy, which is incompatible with preconceived notions of how such a society would function. I think the author makes a good argument that such large accumulations of capital as we have today would not occur, due to unsubsidized costs of protection. Combined with a population more or less agreeing that statism is undesirable, which is achievable through conversation and education, I think anarchy is sustainable. |
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