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bi weekly is every two weeks, semiweekly means twice a week.
Yes, but colloquially people have muddled up the meaning of biweekly so it can now mean either twice a week or every two weeks. Needs clarification. For me, biweekly is twice per week and fortnightly is every two weeks. I've already PM'd TheSwede asking for clarification. If their plan is once every 2 weeks, I'd rather them switch to once per round. biweekly is twice per week, bimonthly is twice per month, biyearly is twice per year Biweekly means twice a week in England, where English comes from. "Bi" comes from the Latin "bis" meaning "twice", hence bi-weekly means twice-weekly. Biweekly paychecks, anyone? Biweekly = every two weeks. Bimonthly = every two months. |
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1. Sell shares of Asicminer
2. sell bitcoins for USD
3. Watch BTC price plummet (hopefully)
4. buy more bitcoins for USD
5. buy more shares of AsicMiner
If everything goes as planned, if you can get your btc to the market before the crash reverses, then you could end up with more shares of AsicMiner than you started with, all in time to get the weekly dividend.
This, and it can even go simpler: -Sell AM for BTC -Wait for low AM -Get more shares In hindsight, it was a pretty quick fluke. Some overreacting or speculating? What would you do on Bitfinex? Aren't you already long by holding a security valued in BTC ? I think you are assuming ASICMiner has a FIAT value. i can see your argument with other securities that would experience a price change but few do. ASICMiner pretty much stays the same with price changes (look at the bubble/pop). However securities with FIAT business should move with the market and yes you could exploit that  Well, one could argue that during a btc flash crash, it's a panic selloff, which means people are psychologically spooked, and looking to move their holdings into fiat at any cost. It seems logical that people might be transferring btc stocks into btc (by selling cheaply) for transfer to exchanges to convert to fiat. The reality is by the time everything is said and done, it will likely be too late, and you will likely be converting to fiat at the low, so it's generally smarter to sit tight, and/or buy the shares of those panicking. -helixone I think these comments really nail down the point, except its psychological so it won't give you a strong (determining) correlation. Deprived had a really good post applicable here (can't remember what thread, but I think it was a somewhat recent post). He pointed out the problem with securities having or encouraging a fiat value: they use bitcoin as a medium, and when one rises, the other falls, and security gets tossed between the two, not really benefiting (I'm going off memory here). AM (and some others) avoids some of this problem by not talking about their worth, value etc. in fiat terms, and also in their performance of course. So it seems to me, when you have people using multiple mediums, ratios some directly proportional and some indirect (inverse?), its pretty difficult to make a rational or mathematical judgement (and hence don't get caught up in finding a strong correlation, my advice). Perhaps some did think a crash was coming, and wanted to go from AM to BTC to fiat, maybe others were seeing only in BTC<->stock. On the other hand, wasn't it just like some weeks ago BTC had a strong dip and everyone crying 'CRASH', and stocks seemed little effected by the lower price, the exchange problems, and so on? |
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I applaud you for being one of the first companies outside of the Bitcoin mining market that takes the plunge and tries to raise money through bitcoin. Since I don't have any experience with real world mining I want to ask some general questions.
If the funding campaign on Bitfunder is unsuccessful and not all shares are sold, what other methods of financing will the company turn to in order to fund the EM survey and drilling? I'm asking this because the market cap is very high in comparison to most other assets on Bitfunder.
If the survey returns a positive result the share valuation is expected to rise but actual dividends will not be paid until the business has been sold to a mining partner. Correct?
In case the business is sold for a lump sum will my shares be sold too and would I receive the proceeds in form of a dividend?
can you tell us about your contingency plans?
what happens if the stock exchange closes over night like GLBSE back then?
what happens if bitcoin should become worthless?
I like the idea behind this, but I would like some reassurance that I won't loose everything in the above mentioned cases, since this seems like a pretty longterm investment.
Very interested, been keeping my eye on this one for a while. Love the thought of a non-virtual mining corp. Will probably get some shares soon. But I still have questions (like some already posted above). 1) I may have missed this information. But you stated you already hit gold. Does this mean you will start extracting the gold as soon as possible? Will it be sold immediately? Will this be included in the dividends when the IPO ends? 2) How does the government feel about paying dividends in Bitcoin? I assume you have checked for possible legal issues? Thanks for your time. - Your question is currently being worked on - I'm excited by this project and want to invest, but these are very good questions (as well as the others) and hope they get answered soon. |
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This is yet another: 'Interested to test' post.
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On the one hand, it is a good idea to introduce new and complex things on a small, gradual scale. Install wallet, then basic transactions, then network fundamentals and so on. On the other hand, you increase ignorance, insecurity and misuse. Most people know very little about technology and their computers, and urging such use opens them to exploit and dependence. When they lose their bitcoins to hacks or user error, then negative word-of-mouth is louder. Perhaps it boils down to my personal experience and pet peeves. I hate telling people what to download and how to use things they don't understand. They then either depend on me to guide them through their problems or fall prey to false advertising and worthless or harmful programs. So yeah, I agree it would lead to faster adoption; having taken one step forward coupled with curiosity helps any journey seem attainable. But 'adoption' in that sense in 'quantity', and one of bitcoin's strength is in the quality of freedom it may provide. Too early, and people will see it as paypal and credit cards, and their know-how will rely on specific-name services and clicks and taps on a GUI.
There is a concept in commerce called marketing. It is more aggressive than putting things on a shelf and waiting for someone to walk in and buy them. It involves creating a desire to purchase something even when the person did not originally have such an intention. It typically uses emotions in place of (or in addition to) logic. (I know... most of us here are more accustomed to using logic. We are the minority.)
The techniques use manipulation of emotions such as envy, fear, inadequacy, wanting to be liked, etc.
It has been used successfully to sell large quantities of things at relatively high prices, for which there is very little "need". Things such as automobiles, whiskey, perfumes, funerals, diamonds, desert (or swamp) real estate, vacuum cleaners, sneakers, etc.
It is not about convincing them.
Though this has negative aspects. As soon as you start linking things (especially their first experiences and impressions) to people's emotions and desires, then you are subjected to the whims of such forces. Such forces may turn against you and cause irreparable harm to long-term adoption, or others can sweep in and divert such energy towards their own project and ends. Finally, bitcoin is pretty great but has a long time to go in both development and adoption. Personally, I don't seem much harm in having patience towards adoption, nor do I see that much benefit in urging or necessitating mass use. |
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I have a suggestion: Can there be a way to add some optional requirements/settings for the 'Withdraw to- Address Lock' and/or 'Internal Transfers'? Maybe options such as email confirmations, or some other verification (besides the PIN)?
My situation: I locked my withdraw address to an offline, paper address, thinking that I would probably reinvest most of my dividends and wouldn't need to withdraw anything for awhile. However I changed my mind, some other investments on other sites caught my eye, and I wanted to make a few purchases with earned dividends - though I didn't want to load and use the offline wallet yet.
Instead, I created another account and internally transferred my spare BTC to the new account. Within some odd minutes I had my coin off of btct.co.
I know there is already quite a bit of security in place, and that if an attacker had my PIN and 2FA then my email probably is compromised as well, though I still feel irksome that I was able to contradict an earlier decision of mine. Not that I'm asking you to save me from myself, not your job to watchdog the users and safeguard against self-sabotage. Though I can't see much downside if there were a few more options a user could place on his account, if implementation was easy and it didn't increase things too much on your end.
Could one have a time-specific withdraw lock (maybe a week or month, etc), delays or confirmations for internal transfers (or maybe securities only transfers), etc?
Regardless, love the site and the work you put into it is admirable. Thanks!
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I'd like to play this game. Shouldn't we start an 'Market' thread to keep this 'Theory' thread and the 'Blockchain' neat? Bytemaster: RE: Simulation :
1. "minting" currency is not defined in your game rules.
2. In fact again the actual rules of the BitShare system is not defined. Your "rules" just define how we issue buy sell orders.
3. Choosing Mt. Gox exchange rate is just going to delay and obfuscate the situation. Its theoretically (and practically when you look at crypto currencies) possible for the exchange rate to vary by 90% in weeks. But I don't want to play this game for an entire year just to prove a point. And just to remind you, the point was NOT to make money, but to prove that crypto-USD does not track USD relative to BitShares.
Please respond to my prior posting. You have offered the 10BTC bounty. Now you are changing the rules AGAIN, with this endless game.
Agree with this; the 10BTC bounty should stay here. Its still ultimately up to OP if he isn't convinced. |
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So I’ve read through most of your posts on this. Let me see if I understand this model. IRL-X <-> IRL-market <-> Bitcoin <-> BitShares <-> Bit-market <-> crypto-X IRL-market - In real life market (fiats, golds, silvers, mangos...). Includes bitcoin, as its established as of this moment IRL-X - That which is in existence (paper fiat, gold, silver, mangos) Bit-market - Digital exchange of Bitshares and crypto-X 1) Shares derive their value from the same sources as Bitcoins.
The native currency will be called a share and is mined into existence on the same schedule as Bitcoin.
Shares will pay dividends from half of the mining fees and rewards So say 25 BitShares (same as bitcoin) are mined in block 1, by a pool A of 25 people. Each person has 1 BitShare now (which may or may not equal 1 bitcoin, this depends on IRL-market). In block 2, 12.5 Bitshares are distributed to among the block 1 shares, and 12.5 is given to a new pool B. Block 3 etc.. Pool A = 37.5 BitShares or 1.5 BitShares per person | block 3 gives .25 for total of 1.75 per person Pool B = 12.5 BitShares or .5 per person | block 3 gives .25 for total of .75 per person Pool C = 12.5 BitShares, .5 each I excluded mining fees, since they seemed negligible: http://blockchain.info/stats2) Users may issue new sub-currencies by ‘shorting the sub currency’ and backing the short position with dividend payments from a defined number of their Shares I’m going to ignore the ‘shorting’ because I don’t completely understand it in this Bit-market: So from User 1A has 1.75 BitShares, looks at IRL-market (say bitcoin = $100, and assuming IRL-market values 1 BTC = 1 BitShare), says “I’m going to issue 10 crypto-X with a 10:1 ratio of 1 BitShares, to which their dividends go towards”, and he finds a buyer of 10 crypto-X for 10 IRL-X and IRL-market. So what does buyer receive? A dividend address and key? But not the BitShares you said, right? So 10 crypto-X that receives 1 BitShares worth of dividends - 12.5/(Total number of BitShares). So 1 of the buyers 1A crypto-X is worth = (.10*[12.5/(Total number of BitShares)]) Is that correct? If User 1B issues 10 crypto-X at 9:1, then crypto-X-1A is different than crypto-X-1B, right? Are these differences and histories encoded in the blockchain? Isn’t the crypto-X only similar in value to IRL-X at the time of issue and purchase, and that value is then is set in stone, or at least until User 1A buys it back to un-issue it? Wouldn’t you need to constantly be trading to maintain crypto-X’s similar value to IRL-X? 3) If this is correct, then what is the point of issuing or calling anything crypto-X (USD, Gold, mangos) when the worth is in BitShares, and BitShares are *supposed* to be valued the same as Bitcoins? Crypto-USD and Crypto-Gold only serve psychological functions, in name and language only. If the main factor for acquiring crypto-X is interest, then why not own the BitShares its determined by, which has more use, liquidity?(-is that the right term)? Changing crypto-X to IRL-X won’t emulate IRL value, but will follow the BitShare fractional dividend tied to it and the BTC price. 4) It seems like this ‘shorting’, ‘interest rate’ and price parity stuff could work, again I don’t understand it completely in application here. I think you made one or two strong connections and associations with that system to this system of peer exchanges and Bitcoin, however I think you got too excited and made some leaps in logic or other implications, and you are trying to hard to smash them together. I can see this ‘shorting’ and ‘interest rates’ influencing a market, price and being the main factors or incentives, but I don’t see why any crypto-X is worth having. Can’t you make this work with bitcoin and BitShare alone (each of those could be exchange for IRL-X, can’t BitShare’s dividend just add a little value to something already existing?)? 5) IRL-X <-> IRL-market <-> Bitcoin <-> BitShares <-> Bit-market <-> crypto-X It seems like you want a complete circle/cylce where crypto-X = IRL-X, but crypto-X = BitShare, and Bitshare ~ Bitcoin; and further Bitcoin ~ IRL-market and IRL-X. It seems such a circle already exists with IRL-X <-> IRL-market <-> Bitcoin (though each step has unique bottlenecks) and Bitshares can fit into this cycle or at least complement it, but Bit-market <-> crypto-X seems to be an appendage — I don’t see it easily, openly flowing into any other aspects, the use function and travel between seems rigid and complicated for whatever end you are trying to accomplish (forcing crypto-X into existence? easier IRL exchanges of currencies and BTC? digital fluidity?). Unless you somehow peg crypto-X to IRL-X — I have no clue how, making the blockchain obey/enforce IRL prices with outside sources, data? But then that makes it a decentralized exchange with a centralized or regulated factor of price determining it; Bit-market would then be subservient to IRL-market. Also, is this ‘shorting’ occurring completely inside the Bit-market, or is the User/Issuer bouncing between IRL- and Bit-markets? 6) Too, it doesn’t seem like the power is balanced. When block 4 is mined, Bitshares from block 1 have almost doubled (~1.91 BitShares) by their dividends and represent ~48% of the BitShare total, and BitShares from block 4 are 0.5 BitShares and only 12% of the BitShare Total. (Assuming the 25 users per pool from above, with each new block being earned by a new pool of new users). How are the Bitshares from later blocks suppose to compete with the earlier blocks? 7) Finally, is this suppose to be accessible to the average person and user, or just to hardcore financial users? Bitcoin is hard enough to make accessible. If your user aim is the general user, then why rush this project? Early implementation could harm the overall idea and drain your money getting it to work. I totally acknowledge that I might be wrong and that this whole thing may be over my head, but I technically count as an average user, and it the average user is your aim then perhaps this will help both of us. Overall, I think you should be a little more careful with explaining this concept. You seem to jump between the technical workings and aspects of the system, to multiple economic schools of thought, to psychological reasonings determining behaviour of users, and in between. |
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I doubt I can give you a proof of failure that you ask, and I'm not 100% solid or professional on financial terms, but I think my questions maybe worthy and helpful (let me know if they are not).
1) Currency=Shares=BitShares, right? Share dividends and mining fees are paid in what, fractions of shares? Rewards are shares, the native currency of this chain, right?
2) So if I have 1 Bitshare, I can issue any type or amount of sub-currency by backing it with either my own share, or the future dividends from it?
3) Trade of BitShares is possible, right?
4) Why bother issuing sub-currencies, what does that help or solve? Why would I give someone my real gold for a crypto-gold that is backed by someone's BitShares/dividends, which is backed by bitcoins, which is referenced in exchange rates between paper monies? Wouldn't I rather opt for for the BitShares themselves?
5) Is the interest rate determined by the user, or the mining fees/rewards/transaction rate? Are dividends always half? Are interest rates and dividends separate?
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Feedback so far: -Right clicked, new tab on qr code symbol: brought up a new page and new address with url as ' https://rushwallet.com/#qr'. Bookmarking and opening bookmark still brought me back to the new address. How important is the '#..." code in the URL? -Where is the client side key stored? Is it possible to import it to another wallet? -Also, a home page button or clicking the logo to generate a new address in a new tab would be nice. |
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Cool, I miss instawallet.
I'll test it, here is the address: 1MmVnHHvoNRaymhcpJPfxbSBRGLxEbhq9P
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Site works for me. Account created and confirmed just fine.
Good looking site!
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Can anyone estimate what would be the return, in bitcoin, of 1000 ASICMINER full shares for the next 30 days ?
Thanks
$838,000. Assuming bitcoin trades for $269. Also, I made up all the other numbers. |
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Great write up furuknap! This helped me out a ton; now I just need to do some calculations of my own. |
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I took this awhile ago. Interesting, until I got to this wiki page...  I'm sure others would highlight some of the economists... |
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I'm more concerned with the religion OF bitcoin. Their are FAR too many people who have near apocalyptic visions of how BTC will transform the world and bring torment an damnation upon governments, banks, Keynesians and everyone who has ever mocked them. While the BTCers will be enraptured in wealth and splendor and rule the world at the right-hand of Satoshi. Sound familiar???
This^^^ This scene embodies at least half of bitcointalk's non technical/helpful threads (Mike Leigh's 'Naked' 1993): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N90sl94g7PE&t=2m18s |
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Finally, I hear my self thinking outside my body by reading someone else's reply!:) It's funny that people are suggesting that the internet would be broken by a WWIII type event (assuming nuclear) - because the internet was created by DARPA precisely to be resistant to this exact threat Smiley I was making the same point earlier - you are right. Think about it, how is the internet resistant to war, nuclear or otherwise? Let alone the technical side, who is going to operate and maintain the machines and infrastructure? Or do technicians get to first dibs in these bunkers? And if they were so important and vital to the nation's interest and survival to maintain any infrastructure (let alone a specific one like the internet), why do they need to worry about wealth, money and value? I think they will get as much as possible. (Only a few wackos are going to care about their future wealth and ability after such a war) Also, here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARPANET#Misconceptions_of_design_goalsbtc237ftw you are making 2 unrelated and totally wrong points.
1. If a nuclear war takes place, using all the weapons that the superpowers have, hiding in basements isn't going to do much good as the environment will be poisoned. Sooner or later you have to breathe and then you will take in poison and die. As I said, I am no expert and I know the US and Russia are dismantling their arsenals. But I hadn't known it reached the point that Mutually Assured Destruction no longer applied. The danger of a nuclear war followed by a nuclear winter is that all life is wiped out.
2. An EMP takes out the electrical infrastructure, not the cables. It doesn't matter if cables survive when the power stations are disabled and when the routers at the end of the cables are disabled.
If there were a nuclear war of the kind you are thinking, humanity would be reduced to extinction level and we might well be extinct. There certainly wouldn't be the teams of engineers to run the Internet. Bitcoin would be worthless. So would the dollar. Bullets and tinned tuna would be the new gold.
+1 |
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Not a professional writer or anything, but this doesn't sound like a great story, as is. I won't try to be purposefully harsh with these comments and questions: 1) What is the story? Is it centered around the family, the kidnappers, or the travels and trials of bitcoin? It seems like the currency is the protagonist, the kidnapping is the introduction to the protagonist, and then it becomes a sort-of problem without resolve for the kidnappers? 2) Similarly, what is the point of the second half? Is it suppose to become a tense, cat-and-mouse page turner? Do the kidnappers feel any tension or suspect being hunted? If so, then why would they? If not, then its only interesting from the view of the FBI agent. Maybe the kidnappers make mistakes? Also, why should we care if their money gains/loses value or crashes virtual markets? 3) Why is this Sci Fi? Seems like its a present day setting and realism, just utilizing a new technology some may not understand. 4) Whose your audience? Those into bitcoin, crime thrillers or general audience?
Not being familiar with bitcoin, the family at first freaks out. They then figure out how to buy enough bitcoin through OTC, or through whatever exchange to which they can find access. At first, this is a problem for this family because there is no bitcoin exchange which accepts their national currency. A nephew of the family is going to school in the USA and so buys bitcoin on an exchange to which he has access from the USA using US dollars.
Cue Benny Hill music? The kidnappers, tired of waiting, ... I think they shouldn't expect a quick, clean kidnapping when using a currency the targeted family has no clue about. Hell, if the family took half as long as any other bitcoin user in reading and trying to understand it (finding this forum and all other advice stressing people not to jump into it), they should expect at least a week before any real payment. The victim returns to his family who now have a greater education into the intricacies of cyrpto-currency. Hurrah?! Education trumps all else? What do you mean by this? Are we rooting for the kidnappers, taking delight in punishing and abusing those who don't know about bitcoin? Now, here comes the problem. The kidnpapers return home to their safe first world country. In the mean time, the purchase of those 10,000 bitcoin has driven the price of bitcoin up by 30%. The kidnappers know they will have a hard time converting their bitcoin to fiat since every exchange now has decided to comply USA laws regarding money laundering and identifying customers and laws created to prevent the financing of terrorism. The kidnapping victim, unbeknownst to the kidnappers decided to hire a former FBI agent and white hat hacker to track them down.
The kidnappers had planned for that and have no intention of trying to convert their 10,000 bitcoin into fiat. They had bought several thousand bitcoin prior to the kidnapping, and when the price move up after the purchase of bitcoin in such great quantity by the ransomers, they all sold their holdings and made profit. But now, they have to figure out what to do with those 10,000 bitcoin. So they don't know about the agent, but they planned for it, just in case? What's the point either way? Why should we care about this 10K BTC problem? Especially since they don't need it (because they bought and sold some bitcoin already)? This exchange only requires users to supply their identifying documents if they want to withdraw fiat. The kidnappers do not want to withdraw fiat. They merely had planned all along to manipulate the market... So they are part of a banking conspiracy? Why is it important they crash markets, gain or make bitcoin? This sounds like the paranoia, delusions and wetdreams of many on this forum. After a couple of years, the kidnappers meet in San Diego at a coffee shop and decide to send their 10,000 bitcoin to a mixing service. They talked about making some large ridiculous bets at Satoshi Dice. They talked about just giving away the 10K BTX since they already made loads of money from manipulating the price by buying and selling their large quantity of bitcoin several times.
Isn't their only option to using many, many mixing services, right after they get their ransom? Isn't that their only hope of being able to use any of it? I mean, the blockchain is public, so if the ransom sits there at the sent address or any other address, then time doesn't matter, no? |
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@TAT I'm really enjoying this share. Thanks for running it!
I'm really enjoying people thanking me for doing this, it's really unexpected!  Aww hell, lets heap some more on. Thanks, TAT! This share rocks! |
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Should probably move this to/look at Securities Sub-board: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=78.0or click the 'Details' tab on your link and this shows up: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=192499.0Shares Each 1 share of TAT.ASICMINER represents 1/100th of a share of ASICMINER maintained and verified by either Friedcat or any officially designated exchange, and has rights to 1/100th of the dividends of a whole ASICMINER share. Dividends Each TAT.ASICMINER share has the right to 95% of its respective dividends. 5% will be retained for asset management fees. The amount of the dividend is defined as the same amount distributed by ASICMINER to the shares held by the issuer for this asset. Dividends will be paid within 48 hours or less of confirmed payments from ASICMINER. |
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