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August 28, 2016, 07:01:32 AM *
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1  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Bitmain's Released Antminer S9, World's First 16nm Miner Ready to Order on: August 26, 2016, 05:10:51 PM
My guess (hope) is that Chip Temp is the highest reported on the board. Given the simplicity of on-die chip sensing and the space afforded @ 16nm node it would be shear stupidity not to have each report its temperature... Hell, TSMC probably provided that IP block "free" of charge.
Unfortunately it isn't that simple. There are two issues:

1) lack of calibration. Performing a proper calibration of the internal temperature sensor would be probably prohibitively expensive. Uncalibrated sensor will have good differential accuracy (is the temp higher or lower?) but bad absolute accuracy (is it 100C or 120C?).
2) internal switching noise. The mining chips have super-high levels of internal simultaneous switching noise, beyond what is tolerated by the standard library IP blocks.

Spondoolies tried to work around it by configuring that temperature sensor cell to provide intentionally coarse measurements; IIRC the step was 5C.

The other way to work around those limitations is to use external measurement chip (like LM75) with external sensing diode that is internal to the mining chip. This setup is much less sensitive to the manufacturing process variations.

Is that or anything over 100 maybe 105C 'safe'.... Maybe.
The determination of true maximum operating temperature would be too time consuming and too expensive. There published values are just very approximate goals that are used as an input to the electromigration models in the CAD software. And again the normal operating points of the mining chip are outside of the ranges where those models have any accuracy. So it is back to keeping the fingers crossed. There's no time for the proper qualification procedures and fault analysis.

In addition to the above the maximum safe operating temperature would be dependent on the core supply voltage. For higher voltages the temperatures would be lower. My textbooks are in storage, I can't look them up now. But anyone interested could dig around the web and try to find some school problems like: the capacitor has plates at a distance of 10nm, the voltage difference between plates is 1V. What is the equivalent pressure in PSI required to keep those plates apart? The results are frighteningly high. Modern processed utilize pre-stressed silicon to partially deal with those electrostatic forces.
2  Other / Meta / Re: Topics messed up in my browser [not perfectly solved]. on: August 24, 2016, 02:15:32 AM
By the way: Google has announced that starting sometime in January 2017 it will start penalizing in their search results pages that require horizontal scrolling to read the text. To avoid penalization pages should properly reformat to be readable on most desktop and mobile screens.
3  Other / Meta / Re: Topics messed up in my browser, I guess it has something to do with my screen. on: August 22, 2016, 08:16:40 PM
I confirm that "" advertisement creates same problem for Safari users on Mac OSX (older versions).
4  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Antminer S7, S9 Rackmount Self on: August 17, 2016, 02:18:25 AM
Thanks, graymatter, for a very thoughtful reply. I will quote it for my future reference.

I guess we are most familiar with the opposite corners of the data center business space. You seem to be more of a greenfield guy hiring a temporary workforce. I'm more of the brownfield guy preferring to work with employees, both part-time and full-time, and maybe hiring contractors also keeping their own permanent workforce.

I'm particularly glad that you've mentioned that I neglected mentioning fire protection when using improvised fixtures for racking. This is again probably issue of working at different corners in the same large business space. You seem to have experience with dry climates whereas I'm familiar with moderate ones, where the main danger to the cardboard and wood is moisture, rot and other living things, not fire. As a mostly-brownfield person I'm mostly familiar with too sensitive and too wet fire protection, completely unlike the case in Thailand.
The two things I completely don't buy in your scenario is "10 minute MTTR" and "1 person working 20hr/week". To me they look like clear warning signs. I've seen many facilities making similar claims, they were seriously under-maintained. This is one point of the checklist that our buyout team uses: carefully inspect the facilities for the sign of rushed maintenance work: dropped washers from the rack-mount screws, whole rack-mount screw kits still in their plastic baggies, entire cable assemblies dropped on the floor and replaced. It is particularly important with the rack-mount case designed like yours, which has contiguous bottom, which make it additional "floor" to drop things on.

The room with long aisles like in one of your original photos is obviously unmaintainable by single person, it is a physical impossibility to replace equipment there by one person. It requires a work-team, probably equipped with walkie-talkies to actually productively work while the facility operates.
Harmonics don't really effect ASIC and solid state systems.  For example, the only concern you need to have with harmonics and vibration is with spinning disks (magnetic disks) in a traditional DC environment.  Bitcoin miners have none of these problems.  As for the rest of it, I won't even bother addressing as Helmholtz resonance is completely irrelevant to anything really...  No part of the HVAC system has empty cavities, the hot isle exhaust most of the air out of the facility except for what we wish to recirculate over winter..

There is also plenty of space in the hot and cold isles to handle the volume of air that is passing.  We're not using high pressure 36'' (3ft by 3ft) ducts, these are 6ft by 14ft ducts...  

The design of the PSU to be above the miner is actually imperative, as bitmain supplies such short DC supply cords.  The entire weight of the PSU is supported by two rails that the PSU slides into, and the PSU itself is simply screwed into the front to allow someone to unplug / re-plug the power cord if they need to simply power cycle a miner without having to go into the hot isle...

"The corrugated cardboard + plastic foam + particle board can direct the air around metal warehouse" - yeah and cardboard and plastic have one thing in common, they are both combustible. Regardless if I were stupid enough to do it this way and risk burning thousands of dollars worth of equipment to a crisp, the firecode does not allow me to, nor does the facility itself, so both 'cheap' solutions are irrelevant.  If you want to look at what happens when people do this, lookup spoondoolies-tech fire hong kong.

As for multi crew... you obviously are not a very organized person... All S9's we know the hashrate, operation, and the location of every miner in the facility...  We keep a database online (intranet) that shows when an S9 goes down, or is hashing slower.  A single user can walk to the floor, find the miner, and take it back to the NOC for servicing, often times about a 10 minute operation to swap bad parts and RMA.

As for deployment, yeah, we bring in a team of temps that we pay about 10 dollars an hour to 'install' cable' and do basic stuff.  The core team supervises, does final install, and logs the position of the equipment with a tablet on wifi (temporary wifi) pressing the broadcast button one rack at a time.  Takes a little while, but once mapped, 1 person working 20 hours a week @ the facility can service 2500 S9 units easily.  Its called being organized...

To give you some numbers, the total cost of the solution, compared to the cost of the miners / equipment purchased was 2%.  Meaning, 2% of our total cost that we spent on the entire deployment FOR JUST THE MINERS, was the cost of the shelves...  The shipping cost was approximately 8% of the total order...

Estimated lifetime for 16nm equipment I give 18 months, before 10nm readily available. With our cost of power 99% lower than the rest of the US, if we're not profitable, then no miners are going to be. at 2.5c per KW, there are only a few places in the world that are cheaper, and nothing else in the US. Technically our old spoondoolies tech miners are still profitable on our current rates, but it would be a waste of space for us to keep them.

Final thought, these things take 5 minutes to install, work flawlessly, and will accommodate future generations of bit-main miners. They work with the S1,S3,S5,S7, and S9... My guess is, they'll work with the S11 as well...  How much time labor and money do you spend trying to get the combustible cardboard and plastic up?  I've done it before in a cheap facility and its a lot more work than you think.  

Obviously you'll go with the combustible datacenter in a chicken coop option, but some of us prefer making money hand over fist and being cheap doing it and not have to worry about 30% of our equipment failing in the first year...  I feel many other people are in the same position we are when dealing with multi-million dollar deployments of bitcoin miners.  For about a total cost of ownership of 2% greater than fire...
The opposite of your neat greenfield build out isn't a chicken coop. It is a brownfield deployment opportunity like the classical .

I have no information on how good is your estimate of 18 months of useful life of Antmier S9. I take it on face value and make a comment: the brownfield opportunities frequently come with electricity already prepaid for some time, typically 6 to 12 months. So your "lower than 99% of the USA" has to be taken with qualifiers: only for  multi-year contracts, only for multi-megawatts deployments and only for full construction/renovations. If somebody can live with 1 to 2 years contracts, accept smaller deployments (of the size of supermarket or shopping mall food court) and promise to not make permanent alterations to the facilities; then the electricity price can be zero because it was already paid by the previous contract or the bond issue financing.

Thanks again for your thoughtful reply.
5  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: A revolution has begun on: August 10, 2016, 09:10:14 PM
It is working as it should, may i ask if some friends of you have tried to connect?

My Team and friends seem to have no problem when trying to access the site.

Also it doesnt make any sense to me why you should be blocked, maybe you are using a blocked ip-range. (we blocked some spam related ip ranges)

But you can also visit us via smartphone/tablet as we are optimized for that too.
Not even close.

But your misfeature made me check out how professionals do the "browsercheck". I checked my bookmarks for the sites that use similar technology. One related to Bitcoin is , that has block explorers for several mainnets and testnets. It is handled by Cloudflare, either by the free level or the cheapest level, because it uses the SSL certificate issued by Cloudflare. The block explorers are very AJAX-y, but do have some limited usefulness even with Javascript disabled.

I checked it on all available browsers, both with Javascript enabled and disabled, both through the clearnet and through Tor. I also had tested it over the weekend through a cellular Internet provider that uses heavy IPv4 sharing on the public side, so that I would use an IPv4 shared with many other customers.

When Javascript is disabled Cloudflare displays:
Please turn JavaScript on and reload the page.

DDoS protection by CloudFlare
The page reloads itself without the need to do anything, in particular site continues to work (in their limited capability) with Javascript disabled.

When Javascript is enabled Cloudflare displays:
Checking your browser before accessing

This process is automatic. Your browser will redirect to your requested content shortly.

Please allow up to 5 seconds…

DDoS protection by CloudFlare
and again everything refreshes itself without the need to do anything.

So that about sums up the difference between professionals and random code monkeys. Cloudflare's free account probably has some non-obvious limitations, but I see absolutely no reason to use DDoS protection. It would seem particularly effective way to choke the traffic to one's site.
6  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: A revolution has begun on: August 06, 2016, 07:06:24 PM
Maybe you first ask some other guys before posting things like this. This is not an error, you are just not using javascript i guess.

Our browsercheck need javascript to run. Even TOR got javascript installed as default today.
Wrong guess. I have Javascript enabled in all 4 browsers and all of them are correctly passing browser checks and captchas served by the likes of Cloudflare and others.

My guess is that you're a beginning programmer/system administrator working alone, without backup of a test team or even a friend that you could bounce your ideas off in a friendly way. That is why you are so angry: hard work and no results, not even the foggiest idea of what is wrong in your setup.
7  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: A revolution has begun on: August 06, 2016, 05:20:51 PM
Yes indeed, you're not goin throu our custombrowsercheck. This can happen if you block services such as javascript or you visit our browser from a ip very often or under other circumstances, we wont fully describe how it works becaus of security purposes.

//I maybe overestimated your English
I didn't get this joke, as i told, english is not my foreign language so please excuse the bad grammar.
Also please don't be disrespectful with no reason.
Didn't get a joke, but managed to get offended? Another red flag for scammer. They are usually humorless but always demand "respect" (the last word pronounced with Marlon Brando's accent in The Godfather).

I'm pretty sure this business is like dry gangrene: it is self-limiting by cutting off the blood/traffic flow to the infected/protected site. But typically they would try to restart it under different name to disassociate themselves from the original failure. For the future reference I preserve the "custom browsercheck" in case anyone wants to investigate. I downloaded exactly the same, non-working, page using 4 different browsers and several IPv4 addresses, both through clear-net and through Tor. I don't have time to debug it, I just noticed a hotlink to an image hosted by . I just X-ed out the tracking cookie.
<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title>...</title><meta charset="UTF-8"/><script type
="text/javascript">!function(window){function success(e){var a=new Date;a.setTim
load()}var HashCat=new function(){this.sha="function SHA1(s){function U(a,b,c){w
hile(0<c--)a.push(b)}function L(a,b){return(a<<b)|(a>>>(32-b))}function P(a,b,c)
{return a^b^c}function A(a,b){var c=(b&0xFFFF)+(a&0xFFFF),d=(b>>>16)+(a>>>16)+(c
>>>16);return((d&0xFFFF)<<16)|(c&0xFFFF)}var B=\"0123456789abcdef\";return(funct
ion(a){var c=[],d=a.length*4,e;for(var i=0;i<d;i++){e=a[i>>2]>>((3-(i%4))*8);c.p
ush(B.charAt((e>>4)&0xF)+B.charAt(e&0xF))}return c.join('')}((function(a,b){var
d6,20);a[b>>5]|=0x80<<(24-(b%32));a[(((b+65)>>9)<<4)+15]=b;for(var i=0;i<h;i+=16
){c=v;d=w;e=x;f=y;g=z;for(var j=0,O=[];j<80;j++){O[j]=j<16?a[j+i]:L(O[j-3]^O[j-8
]^O[j-14]^O[j-16],1);var k=(function(a,b,c,d,e){var f=(e&0xFFFF)+(a&0xFFFF)+(b&0
);y=A(y,f);z=A(z,g)}return[v,w,x,y,z]}((function(t){var a=[],b=255,c=t.length*8;
for(var i=0;i<c;i+=8){a[i>>5]|=(t.charCodeAt(i/8)&b)<<(24-(i%32))}return a}(s)).
slice(),s.length*8))))}; ",this.worker=this.sha+"onmessage=function(e){var orig=;while(true){var rand=String(Math.floor(Math.random()*100000))+String(Math
.floor(Math.random()*100000));var hash=SHA1(orig+rand).substr(0,4);if(parseInt(h
ned"!=typeof BlobBuilder){var a=new BlobBuilder;a.append(this.worker);var r=wind
ow.URL.createObjectURL(a.getBlob())}else{if("undefined"==typeof Blob)return!1;va
r a=new Blob([this.worker],{type:"text/javascript"}),r=window.URL.createObjectUR
L(a)}var t=new Worker(r);return t.onmessage=e,[r,t]},this.process=function(sessi
on,form){if("undefined"==typeof Worker||"undefined"==typeof BlobBuilder&&"undefi
ned"==typeof Blob)for(eval(this.sha);;){var rand=String(Math.floor(1e5*Math.rand
;if(0==parseInt(hash,16))return setInterval(function(){success(rand)},10)}else{v
ar data=this.createWorker(function(e){success(,worker.terminate()}),worke
hCat.process(data[0])},1e3)}(window);</script><style type="text/css">*{margin: 0
;padding: 0;}html, body{background: #2E2C2A url(
;font-family: "Helvetica Neue", "Arial", "Verdana", sans-serif;color: #FFF;font-
size: 130%;}h1, p{font-weight: 200 !important;}a{color: #EEE;font-size: 10pt;}#c
ontent{position: absolute;top: 50%;left: 50%;width: 700px;height: 400px;margin:
-100px 0 0 -350px;text-align: center;}</style></head><body><div id="content"><h1
>Hold on just a second...</h1><p>We're just making sure you're not a robot, give
 it a few seconds...<br/><a href="">1net Anti DDoS Proxy (Beta)<
8  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: A revolution has begun on: August 06, 2016, 03:45:00 PM
1net Anti DDoS Proxy (Beta) is our service, we guarantee for your security. <- if you visit the link, wich is displayed in the Custombrowsercheck then you will see, it refers to

We have our own servers, for sure dedicated. (no virtual servers bullshit)

And one of the best protections available.
I told you that you are clueless code monkey. I maybe overestimated your English. You seem to write clearly, but have comprehension problem when reading.

When some visit your sites all they get is a static unmoving webpage. There's no way to see what is behind.

Your DDoS is indeed very efficient. Like the proverbial protection against sexually transmitted diseases:

- Drink glass of water.
- Before or after?
- Instead.

Yep, THE best protection.
9  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: A revolution has begun on: August 06, 2016, 02:47:45 PM
// We are not using CloudFlare. We got our own firewall and custom browserchecks as you can see whilst your first visit and sometimes when it appears randomly checkin if you are a robot or not.
Don't flatter yourself. You don't know what you are doing technically.

I was intrigued about "custom browserchecks". So now I have 3 different browsers open on my Macintosh, each displaying static text white on black:

Hold on just a second...

We're just making sure you're not a robot, give it a few seconds...

1net Anti DDoS Proxy (Beta)
with the last line linking to also displaying exactly the same white on black screen.

Looks like clueless code monkey directing the development. But at least writing a very serviceable English.

10  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Antminer S7, S9 Rackmount Self on: August 03, 2016, 11:43:23 PM
LMAO  - you have obviously never managed a large scale mining operation, this mine when fully upgraded will house several thousand S9's.  Now, to put that in perspective, the heat load and CFM requirements are massive.  I can stick a bunch of S9's on a shelf, but the blow back from the hot isle due to positive pressure is a nightmare.  

Remember, every open penetration that does not flow through equipment means additional strain on the CFM capacity from your system.  It also represents a loss of temperature delta between the cold isle and hot isle.  Having lets say, several cubic inches of open space does not seem like much until you multiple that by a thousand.  You are now talking about just having 10 cabs completely open wasting conditioned cold air to hot air.

In addition, the S9's do not screw in to the shelf, they sit on it. The only thing screwed in is the PSU so you can easily reboot the system from the cold isle...  95% of the time its not the PSU we have an issue with.  We have ~ a 70 degree cold isle supply with a 100+ hot isle exhaust and a 30 degree delta.  If you aren't an engineer, and have never worked in a pressurized / or data-center environment you have no idea what you are talking about, this isn't over engineering, its engineering to actually make the system work.
You are 100% correct saying that I've never managed a coin mining operation. I have completely different background. In particular I'm not a mechanical engineer, but I have worked with them. I also don't normally do "operations," but in my company there's a team that specializes in acquiring bankrupt data processing operations, so I've seen quite a few and helped restart them under new management.

I didn't made myself clear in my previous posts. I don't consider your design over-engineering, it is something akin to mis-engineering or show-off-engineering. It is for designed for "lookists" and quick sales, not for the cost-effective operations.

From the mechanical point of view, you've only partially addressed the air flow and the MTTR issue. Your design seems to put the whole weight of the power supplies on the edge of the sheet metal. The better design would be to place the weight of the inside devices on a sort of ledge that is at least 1cm wide and lined with soft rubber. (Sorry, I'm not an ME, I lack proper vocabulary.) Basically your design seriously ignores the vibration and resonances caused by the high speed air flow. The resonances are particularly important when nearly the whole facility will be filled out with exactly identical equipment. Your design also wastes a lot of sheet metal for the bottom of the case (and maybe sides).

The Bitmain miners are already quite similar to the Helmholtz resonator ( The multi-mega-watts facility will be like a mad-scientist punk-rock one-note-organ or maybe one-note-straight-flute ensamble. People already are complaining that they are loud, the vibration of the whole facility will badly affect it mechanically.

The other MTTR issue is with the facility shown in the photo. The very long aisles, over 20 racks long, may look impressive on the photo. They are very detrimental to proper operations: it requires multi-person crews for maintenance. If people working alone are forced to work in it they will either skip important work steps or will spend more time walking around than productively working.

I've seen what an experienced water-damage contractor could improvise in hours to direct dry-air flow around the equipment to baffle and cool it. The corrugated cardboard + plastic foam + particle board can direct the air around metal warehouse shelving no worse than dedicated metal racks and cases. It doesn't look good, but operates well, is much cheaper and has no lead time for ordering. I wouldn't advocate that for permanent facility, but what is going to be the expected operational lifetime of the particular models of coin miners?
11  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Collision Finders Pool on: August 02, 2016, 04:41:05 PM
Should something like this be done or not?
Whether you do it or not, I have a perfect name for your project:


12  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Universal Hash Board: Bitfury 28 nM "UHB_BM28NM" on: August 02, 2016, 04:55:49 AM
Glad you like the "art". I've corrected the spelling on our internal files for the next revision. Thanks.

The n-channel device Q5 is a unidirectional High-to-Low Level translator. The High signal is on the left.
Took me a while to grasp how it works. Admittedly, I've never used it in practice; It was referenced from
Bitfury's design files that they publicly shared.
I'm not really buying the "it does work" explanation. This is a topology, the equivalent of for BJTs and common-grid for vacuum tubes.

The technically valid applications of this topology are extremely rare. By pure probability the more likely explanations are non-technical:

1) designer went mad
2) unintentional mistake in the schematics
3) intentional mistake in the schematics (to confuse copiers or to track the copiers)
4) some other things that I can't think of right now

All of them are more probable than a valid technical reason.
13  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Antminer S7, S9 Rackmount Self on: July 27, 2016, 04:05:22 AM
Ok, so I have bad memory for names and faces, but reasonably good one for acronyms. Check out "NEBS Level 3".

I'm going to give just a Wikipedia link for starters: .

Please read that and if interested follow the links. You'll find plenty of examples of no-bullshit ways to rack up electronic equipment meant to be operated continuously. I understand that Bitcoin mine is not the same as telecommunication central office. Anyone reasonably intelligent would be able to decide for themselves which of the telco requirements don't apply to coin mine.
14  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Antminer S7, S9 Rackmount Self on: July 27, 2016, 03:30:34 AM
I will pass. A 3 to 4 week lead time makes a lot more sense.

But the gear is really good looking I will give you that.
Its not just Paypal security that's wrong here.

Think of MTTR, Mean Time To Repair/Replace in case of any equipment failure. How many screws need to be untied/tied? Is it possible to replace just a single unit without taking offline the whole shelf?

It seriously like anti-engineering as far as cost of operations.
15  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Antminer S7, S9 Rackmount Self on: July 27, 2016, 02:46:36 AM
FWIW Google Images only came up with that one.
The yellow thing looks like a retractable power cord with an outlet box on the end of it. Nice touch vs having plugs here and there in that aisle.
Thanks for your help.
Except the prices... Ouch!
Pretty sure I could have Bud Industries or other enclosure maker do a run for quite a bit less...
Yaeh, money laundering through terribly overpriced network installations is still the thing. It used to be done mostly by reshipping unused obsolete (or nearly obsolete) Cisco equipment with the original price at the time of the technology introduction. At the low end of price spectrum I remember Cisco color-coded Cat5 (not Cat5e) 1 meter patch cables for approximately $25 each. Nowadays Cisco is actively fighting those dodgy resellers.

They are now transitioning do doing dodgy billing on digital audio-video installations. Some of those examples ultra-neat cabling jobs shown in magazines are in fact not computing installations but A/V installations serving digitized movies locally for residences or production facilities.

I wish I had better memory for people names and faces. But the sales commissions for the people with right connections are awesome, e.g. from 50% to 75% or even 90%.
And lets be honest, the price of the shelf breaks down to 2.5% of the investment of the miners (not including power supplies...)
I'm not trying to begrudge you of your markup. You are free to charge what the market bears. I also understand what were the NRE costs for the ASIC versus NRE effort for your cases. The ultra-neat-freak segment of the custom hardware installation market is such an obvious place for various frauds. Maybe the manufacturers aren't the most interesting, probably the buyers and the salespeople are. Just don't be surprised if some investigative journalist shows up near your production facility.
16  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Antminer S7, S9 Rackmount Self on: July 27, 2016, 01:01:39 AM
The bottommost picture, with 20 racks in the perspective view, reminds me of strikingly similar interior photographs from some bankrupt datacenter facility financed with securities fraud. The pictures I've seen were much less uniform with the contents of their racks, meaning that racks were filled with a variety of equipment, but only 1/3 to 1/2 of the each rack was filled. I also remember that yellow circle with the pipe pointing down in the far view. Is this type of the arrangement some industry standard for the datacenter equipment?

I can't recall the company name. Maybe someone here saw it too and could refresh my memory?
17  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: financing a 'Community Miner' project; Are You In? on: July 25, 2016, 08:56:34 PM
When you can hide behind the keyboard, it is a lot easier to say things you would never say face to face.
On point.

*Shots Fired*
I don't give two shits what anyone thinks of me....I'll say what I say here to anyone anywhere Tongue  Grin
I wanted to return our attention to the issues in this thread: truthfulness of the posters and the sanity of the posters. This thread seems to be mercifully free of any obvious attempts to scam/defraud. And the whole Bitcoin mining milieu is mercifully free of the dangers of physical harm

The "face to face" isn't like some dive bar with everyone drunk and armed. It is more like a courtroom "face to face" when the truth is most likely to win. Modern courtrooms are increasingly even using transparent barriers to allow the sides to speak the truth without risking physical harm.

The difference with the courtroom is that this board is anonymous. We don't get the benefit of a background checks for the prospective business partners. All that's left is hunches about the sanity and trustfulness.

Please everyone don't let themselves get intimidated with threats like "You wouldn't say that face to face!".

The skillful scammers are mostly gone from the Bitcoin mining, what we have now is a wave of unskilled desperadoes and self-deluded dreamers.

The opening post of aliashraf is a great modern example of a dreamer, very much like the 17th century Don Quixote "who reads so many chivalric romances that he loses his sanity and decides to set out to revive chivalry, undo wrongs, and bring justice to the world." All you need to do is replace "chivalry" with "Bitcoin" and "distributed". The main difference was that the original Don Quixote had his own horse and a down-to-earth servant named Sancho Pansa. aliashraf doesn't own a horse and is looking for at least five servants with their own horses.

The boisterous posts of Mr. Kashif is a good example a desperado, somebody who already tried and failed at getting technical education and relevant employment. His greatest motivator is probably shame he feels towards his parents who paid for his schooling.

To recapitulate and summarize: please don't let themselves get manipulated into not asking the important questions. But at the same time don't ask stupid questions. This isn't a real courtroom where everyone will be excused for asking an explanation of unfamiliar term. Here the conversation isn't live, anyone can put the unfamiliar term in the search box of their browser and skim first couple of returned results.
18  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Blockchains Really Need a Better Database...So We Built One on: July 25, 2016, 07:28:24 PM
While I am not an SSD salesman, nor part of any Charles Hoskinson organization, I am a senior technologist in the research division of the largest developer of storage devices on the planet. Will you be at Flash Memory Summit week after next? I'd like to buy you a beer or coffee for more in-depth discussion.
I want to sincerely thank you for the offer. Unfortunately for me I'm preoccupied with relocation and it is rather unlikely that I would be able to go to Santa Clara,CA,USA on the short notice.

It is too bad that as a senior technologist in storage system you are not allowed to discuss openly the write amplification issue that is affecting the modern file systems and DBMS a great deal. I do understand that those discussions could really be conducted under NDA or while maintaining an anonymity cover like Satoshi's Nakamoto's.
19  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Blockchains Really Need a Better Database...So We Built One on: July 25, 2016, 05:20:24 PM
While this is true at a storage cell level, contemporary system architectures employ such NAND Flash not as raw devices, but within subsystems known as SSDs. SSDs maintain the same semantics at the interface as hard disk drives. These are block-access devices, where some larger construct - the logical block (typically 4096 or 512 bytes of user data) are read or written at one time (i.e., as an atomic unit). Such SSDs already manage all the writing internally, so as to make write behavior indistinguishable regardless of data pattern.

Some NAND and NOR Flash is sometimes included within a system, to be accessed directly via the pins of the chip package. These indeed can benefit from optimized flash file systems. However, these are typically small in size, and meant to save boot Firmware, BIOS settings and other non-user data items related to the management of the computer system itself. I am unaware of any typical commercially available system that employs such raw flash for general data storage suitable for the filesystem upon which one would store a blockchain database.

TL;DR, In today's environment, there is no benefit to application SW (e.g. a database system) managing writes to storage in a manner aware of bit polarity in relation to previous writes to same location. This, and other complications, are abstracted away by mechanisms within the underlying storage devices.
Uh, oh!

Apparently the SSD technology (Solid-State Drive) is still affected by the SSDD phenomenon (Same Shit, Different Day). I don't think you consciously bullshit in your post, you don't seem like a SSD salesman. You seem to be unaware of the fact that SSD devices are affected by almost exactly the same phenomenon: the write block size is smaller than the erase block size. I'm not going to get into details, just give the link to Wikipedia's writeup about .

I measured write amplification with some older release of Bitcoin on a range of storage devices. It was as high as 128. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to write a backend storage for Bitcoin with lower write amplification.

As far as commercial products the good way to start with open source is to research Linux's . On the closed source front many products that ostensibly support only FAT and exFAT filesystems have appropriate optimizations in the code path that handles preallocated files of constant size.

The reason I'm writing all this is to see if there's any intelligent life left in Charles' Hoskinson's organization. I clearly can see that you are intelligent, if somewhat not-up-to-date. The question is still open about his org: it seems that it is just a marketing organization with absolutely no technical background. Lets see if they can post any intelligent followup.
20  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Blockchains Really Need a Better Database...So We Built One on: July 22, 2016, 05:39:07 PM
It's an experiment using new authenticated data structures to vastly improve the throughput and efficiency of IO for cryptocurrencies. As consensus algorithms become more efficient, there will eventually be a bottleneck from the database side of things. So let's make sure that's not the limiting factor.
How about a decent writeup for the technical and other knowledgeable people?

I took a quick look and it looks like some sort of confused mishmash:

1) authenticated data structures for local, private database? Why? The left hand doesn't trust the right hand? Multiple personality disorder? Just sensible error detection scheme should be enough to verify the database integrity.

2) it seems to have some optimizations for flash backing storage, but does it through a file-systems with unspecified limitations. A lot of flash-optimized software takes advantage of the fact that one way of writing (e.g. from zero to one) is very cheap whereas the opposite change (from one to zero) requires time-consuming block erase. Are you doing that? Explicitly naming the constraints would be very helpful.

3) Lost interest in further reading after the two above drawbacks.

There's an user here "jl777" (;u=177323;sa=showPosts) and on other forums, that has a competing idea of database explicitly oriented for cryptocurrencies. He calls it "Iguana," but the problem is that he works alone, produces extremely hard to read code, and is in general hard to communicate with. Therefore he mostly gets ignored, both here and elsewhere, despite showing very promising results.

Are you similarly sponsoring financially a lone genius coder?

How about producing a couple of pages of introductory whitepaper, written at the level of B.Sc. or similar, that would explain why your mousetrap is better?
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