Bitcoin Forum
April 23, 2024, 07:09:54 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
  Home Help Search Login Register More  
  Show Posts
Pages: « 1 [2]
21  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / A block chain for real-time confirmations on: March 11, 2011, 07:55:58 PM
I think the block chain is the most brilliant, elegant way I've seen for independent machines to form a consensus.  My main issue with it is the delay in confirming transactions.

My idea is to have transactions added to the block chain individually, rather than in blocks.  What would happen is that multiple transactions would simultaneously be added to the head of the chain, which ought to be fine as long as they are all mutually compatible.  All that's needed is for further transactions to be able to build on multiple compatible transaction streams and merge them, rather than just picking one.  It's possible that a transaction gets merged into several different streams, but that actually helps its odds should it ever end up in a stream that ends up getting rejected.

Each transaction includes its own proof-of-work.  If there are two parallel streams containing incompatible transactions, the stream with the greatest cumulative proof-of-work in its history becomes valid, and the other is dropped.  Therefore peers are motivated to build on as many valid transactions as they know, to decrease the odds of their stream being dropped, meaning they will want to merge all the compatible parallel streams they know of in order to maximize the proof-of-work in their new stream.  Peers will also be motivated to include as much proof-of-work as they can in their own transactions, for the same reason.

One benefit of this arrangement is that it doesn't need transaction fees or any other reward to motivate third-party block computations.

Thoughts?

Ryan
22  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin-like implementation of Ripple on: February 25, 2011, 12:42:57 AM
If you're comfortable granting credit to a friend (ie, lending to them) on the system, why would you not be comfortable lending them your IOU to give to another one of your friends (ie, vouch for them)?

Speaking for myself rather than for Mike...

Suppose I'm happy to lend money to my friend Fred, but not directly to Fred's friends. With RipplePay, Fred's friend Sue can get the use of my money, though it's Fred who has the ultimate liability to pay me back.

But if Sue disappears and doesn't pay Fred back, it's going to ruin my friendship with Fred when I pressure him to pay me back Sue's loan out of his own pocket. It doesn't help the friendship if I say to Fred "It's your fault because you decided that you trust Sue".

Thanks for the reply.  It's a good point.  Being a bank and issuing your own debt-backed currency -- which is essentially what Ripple enables -- can be tricky.  The hope is that participants learn to handle defaults in the same way as banks:  They accept the loss in the context of overall assets and liabilities, rather than isolating particular liabilities they allowed to be incurred by granting the credit.  It really isn't your fault that Fred decided to trust Sue, and *you* have to trust Fred to be mature enough to acknowledge that.  If you don't think he is, then you shouldn't offer *him* credit. 

We will need to design the software to guide users' through these processes, as well as giving them advice and tools to make them continually aware of their own exposure to debt and prepare them for inevitable defaults, such as highlighting inactivity on risky accounts near their credit limit, and a way to to set aside a reserve fund, possibly from transaction fees or interest charged on loans.

It's definitely not a trivial problem, but I envision solutions evolving as more and more value is transacted in Ripple and it becomes more important.

Ryan
23  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin-like implementation of Ripple on: February 24, 2011, 04:49:39 PM
Does ripple have working point of sale systems?

No.  Ripple only has a few non-distributed/single-server implementations that are still really proofs of concept.  We are working on a feasible distributed protocol, as well as designing marketplaces to motivate growth in the network.  I understand there is some interest in using a Ripple-type system for real-time approval of Bitcoin transactions in, for example, a POS setting, which is one of the motivators of renewed work on the protocol.

Ryan
24  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin-like implementation of Ripple on: February 24, 2011, 04:40:53 PM
It tries to solve a different set of problems to BitCoin. The biggest issue I have with it, is that the benefits over the existing monetary system are not that big and it's a very complex way to handle debt. In particular the way I become transitively liable for the debts of my friends is something that's difficult to swallow for many people.

Hi Mike.  I'd like to understand this concern...  If you're comfortable granting credit to a friend (ie, lending to them) on the system, why would you not be comfortable lending them your IOU to give to another one of your friends (ie, vouch for them)?  Obviously, you only have to grant credit to those people you trust to make good on their debts...  What am I missing here?  Thanks for your input.

Ryan
25  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Major Retail Point of Sale Initiative in USA on: January 20, 2011, 01:12:06 AM
Rfugger, could you help clear up a misunderstanding I am having about Ripplepay? When I read your post a few days ago, I jumped to the conclusion that Ripplepay software would form a decentralized trust network. I suggested that we cut out development time by using Ripplepay for all the heavy lifting of keeping track of debts across a trust network for Bitcoin Account Hubs. On looking into Ripplepay more closely, it looks like it is not decentralized; instead, it is a centralized website that keeps track of a decentralized trust network. For our purposes, we need no central point of failure. The theory behind the ripplepay trust network still does, however, provide the basis for what we need to do.

Is there any decentralized implementation for a Ripplepay network?

Ripplepay is a single-server implementation of the Ripple decentralized payment concept.  There's no distributed implementation yet.  Designs for a distributed protocol are here:

http://ripple-project.org/Protocol/Index

Ryan
26  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Major Retail Point of Sale Initiative in USA on: January 12, 2011, 03:36:50 AM
Hi.  I'm the founder and main developer on the Ripple project.  Cool discussions going on here.  Something like Ripple would be a great way to allow for a decentralized network of independent account hubs for instantaneous payment.  You might want to implement it as a centralized hub first to get some people using it, work out some of the kinks and figure out exactly what you need, then worry about doing decentralized transactions as another phase.  If there are multiple competing hubs operating, they may all be motivated to work out the best way to interoperate.  I'll be glad to help: ryan@ripplepay.com.

You should also check out http://www.opentransact.org/ for the outward-facing payment API.

Ryan
27  Economy / Marketplace / Re: We accept Bitcoins on: January 09, 2011, 10:35:39 PM
Ripplepay.com, a system for transferring value through trust networks, and in particular social networks, now accepts Bitcoin donations.

https://ripplepay.com/donate/

For more information about Ripplepay, see ripple-project.org.

Ryan
Pages: « 1 [2]
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!