There are firm plans for Meetup/BBQ in Sheffield on 18th of September 2012. Time is tentatively 1pm till you beg us to stop serving food, but it may be shifted a few hours either way depending on weather.

This is a very informal event, just few bitcoiners sitting around a fire talking bitcoin and bussiness, drinking beer, eating out of this world BBQ  and generally having great time.

For those of us who are not UK based, and going to the London Sep 2012 conference this will mean 2 extra nights stay in UK and 2x 2 hour train ride London-Sheffield-Your Departure Airport. Most people, who are coming, booking 2 nights in Novotel, Sheffield. To avoid rip off prices it is best to book train rides well in advance.

For example Bitcoin Magazine team's itinerary looks like:

- 13th morning we check into Imperial Hotel
- 17th morning we check out from Imperial Hotel
- 17th noon check into Novotel, Sheffield
- 19th morning check out from Novotel, Sheffield

Number of guests I am willing to accept (the BBQ is in my back yard) is very limited and anyone who wish to come must confirm this with me first.

So far about a handful of  people are expected to be here: Bitcoin Magazine team, Dr. Graziano, Dr. Ruzheinikov a few more people. Post in this thread if you want to confirm publicly that you will be here.

BTW Sheffield is undisputed Beer Capital of the world and we could have some activities organized like tour of the best pubs if someone is interested.

On BBQ a semi-professional chief (also the second largest bitcoin miner in Sheffield and UK, probably) will take care of the best BBQ of your life (optimistically). See some photos I'll post below, those made by me and I am just his humble student.

The food and beer is free, but chief accepts bitcoin tips, and knowing the food I am sure he will not go home empty-handed.

Risks: This is England, so weather is always a risk, as long as it is not a heavy and prolonged rain we should be fine, but if the worst happens we will come up with an alternative.

Hit me by email or skype for details.

P.S.

The level of discussion here is appalling. I am too to some degree guilty of occasionally employing some logical fallacies, often intentionally, for that I do apologize. Now let me give you some details and examples.

The simple truth is that Pirate made an extrordianary claim that he has some kind of biz model that is producing >3400% APR AND that it is reasonable to buy capital at ~3400 APR% AND that his biz model is not a ponzi. Moreover he takes(has taken) deposits/money based on that claim directly and via intermediaries/partners/employees/etc.

The opponents have called this BS and are completely justified to assert that pirate is running a ponzi scheme. based on logical reasoning.


Pirate and his shills, supporters, lieutenants and captives went on offensive employing every logical fallacy in the book (many of them anyway).

Let's just list some of fallacies routinely used and/or likely will be used shortly by team "pirate, the miracle worker":

Ad hoc: "pirate paid 1 account, hence he will pay all accounts", "pirate paid N weeks on time, hence he will continue paying on time" etc...

Anecdotal evidence: "we had a dinner with pirate, therefore he is not anonymous"

Argumentum ad baculum: "you say something against pirate, you get paid last"

Argumentum ad crumenam: "pirate has NNNNNN BTC, therefore he is right", "I bet NNNNNNN BTC, therefore I am right (or ballsy), you did not bet therefore you shut up"

Argumentum ad hominem: attacking opponents personally and on various unrelated matters, like their own businesses, bets they have or not have placed etc...

Argumentum ad ignorantiam: "Of course the Bible is true. Nobody can prove otherwise.", "pirate is not a ponzi because nobody can prove otherwise", "there is a giant teapot orbiting the sun, because nobody can prove otherwise". This also includes "shifting the burden of proof", btw.

Argumentum ad misericordiam: (soon to be employed) "I did not murder my mother and father with an axe! Please don't find me guilty; I'm suffering enough through being an orphan.", "I lost so much money on ponzi and stupid bets, I am suffering enough, do not tell me that I am guilty of promoting and conspiring in a ponzi scheme and a scammer"

Argumentum ad nauseam: ohh yea repeat utter BS until any reasonable person tells you "fuck off, no point to talking to you", nauseating it is indeed.

Argumentum ad numerum: "so many people invested in that, they cannot be all wrong"

Argumentum ad verecundiam: (Appeal to authority, false authority in this case): "Pirates's lieutenants and shills say they know him, and he a has magical biz model and it is not a ponzi, it must be so then"

Bifurcation: "if pirate pays all accounts now, he is not running a ponzi" (That is an interesting one, think about it)

Fallacy of presupposition: (demanding an explanation of something that is not true or have not been established)

Ignoratio elenchi: (illogically concluding that some set of usually fallacious arguments support the desired conclusion)

Non causa pro causa: "pirate has defaulted because, they were posting that he is running a ponzi"

Non sequitur: "pirate pays 7%, therefore he has some miracle biz model making lots of money and it is totally possible"

Petitio principii: "pirate is not running a ponzi, because he pays dividends, and must have some underlying biz model, and therefore he is not running a ponzi"

Plurium interrogationum: demanding a simple answer to a complex question.

Red herring: "some copies of bitcoin magazine were delivered late, therefore pirate is not running a ponzi"

Shifting the burden of proof (again): "pirate has claimed that he is not running a ponzi and that he needs to buy capital at 3000% APR and that he has some underlying biz model other than paying capital back as dividend and asked and received lots of money, now you need to prove that he is not running a ponzi."

Straw man: (happens ~10 times in every thread.) miscquote your opponent than attack his, taken out of context or misrepresented, opinion. Works especially well with typos and grammar/spelling mistakes.

Tu quoque: "you attacked ad hominem, I will respond with ad hominem too."

The persistent abuse here of all the fallacies is so annoying that continuing any serious discussion here amounts to utter waste of time, not intellectual stimulating and often simply aggravating.

The above is why I do this...

For your reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_fallacies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_burden_of_proof
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celestial_teapot
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

What is even more disgusting is that it is seems no one whose opinion I value is posting on this forum anymore. With a very few exceptions, of course. There is no reason for me to remain here until this has changed. Bye for now.

Why dont you apply this to yourself and your actions, Matthew!

Why are  you so bent on censorship here? Do you realise what are you doing?

Do I need to pay money entering some stupid bets to say anything on that forum that you do not agree with?

Do you think it is wise to effectively make yourself part of a scam, no less after it has collapsed?

Have you already forgotten as your silly arguments were utterly destroyed in another thread?

Disgusting!

http://dcao.org/?page_id=36 at the time of this writing still lists me as one of it's founding members, ignoring my request for that page to be updated.

I have resigned from DCAO on 23rd of Aug 2012 and I am not associated with that organisation and most of it's members anymore. In fact, I never was associated with most members of DCAO other than by being a member of the same informal organisation.

I will not make any further public comments on the matter.

Agreed.

My comment was not directed at you specifically. But since you now brought it up, please do allow me to retort.

We should realise that the market does trade right now only one thing. It is not Bitcoin Magazine's new issues on every news stands in states (well... almost) and soon all over EU, it is not bitpay's new services, it is not bitinstant's upcoming BTC denominated debit cards, is it not a few more huge developments that should not be mentioned just yet. It is pirate's default which is the only thing the market is trading right now. Therefore, whether you like it or not, pirate's default is as much on topic here as it gets.

Now. if you think that anyone who has an opinion on something must obey your command and go and gamble on some strangely worded bet with a huge counterparty risk, you'd better rethink that attitude of yours.

Greed and fear do tend to cloud minds of the best of us.

Anyone can see charts and volume. Whoever was selling large amounts on that big dump at best got 12$ average. There is no way all the coins can be bought back  below that. Once the market senses the blood it will not let wounded player off the hook.

Huge tankers can not ride circles around small tug boats, it is just how it works. Huge players cannot sell big on open market and then buy big and stay in profit. They can only push profitably in one direction and move slow and steady.

That charts shows an irrational player panicking.

easy come, easy go


We do not need to go anywhere. We can just sit here and wait and have laughs at your expense. All the genius investors out there meanwhile can sweat it and go over all the stages of greed and fear.

I've got a better theory.

NMW is Satoshi and he finally found a good use for his wast Bitcoin fortune. He will from now on use this fortune of his to help the community through this scam infested period of time by making that kind of wagers and hedging opportunities to soften the blows while making the community using longer sentences.

i.e. from now on anyone on this forum instead of "this is a scam" must say "this is likely a scam". This will please Satoshi big time.

Yep, delay is not default. But you do not have to wait all that long, a week or two and this will be clear as day to all but most die-hard delusional "investors".

Without reading the rest of the thread...

It makes Bitcoin easier to spend.

Yours, Captain Obvious.

You are intellectually lazy, bitsire. Is it that difficult to make a connection from  people being held hostage to people's money being held hostage? Do I really need to explain you the obvious?

back at ya
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=249RL82kjP4

this too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTMRJUH1FdA

Could we maybe instead have "naive and greedy" tag for all the pirate's "investors". This way all the new (and old) scammers could concetrate on working those marks and leave the rest of this forum alone maybe? Just a thought... 

Pirate, one account and 100 BTC is not good enough. You should try harder.

Looking at chart, most of volume was in 13-10$ range during the dump. It is reasonable to assume that if our miracle worker indeed has dumped lots of BTC at "high prices" his average would be at best about 12$

I perhaps should clarify that we never actually tried to build our own ASIC's (I would not know where to start). The idea was to rise funds and set up a mining company that would in turn finance one or more ASIC development teams and we would get in return preferential terms, long term discounts, distribution rights, equity shares etc in those chipmakers. However, negotiations took too long, the potential ASIC development partners did no give us what we wanted, there were too many of those potential ASIC teams. In the end we did not like risk/reward and withdrew from the marketplace.

That is the story of it. Thankfully, nobody on our side got hurt financially, except maybe me (some professional fees and time invested and it is all negligible anyway).

+1,

after some analysis and some risk models done with help of professionals back in May 2012 I have suggested to some people I've been in touch with regarding potential ASIC mining project to forget about mining and simply buy BTC instead. After that our ASIC project was scrapped. It was back when BTC was valued at 5$.

My opinion is still the same. BTC represent better risk/reward than mining, provided that one keep em secure in own wallet, of course.

For what it worth,
Vladimir "The Miner".

Matthew, when I talk to investors I make it extremely transparent to them what it is exactly we do and how, how much it costs and what are our expectations of revenue and that there are risks involved etc and I answer all questions and I do not promise any return in immediately foreseeable future. And yes I will show potential investors our books if needed (subject to some conditions), there is nothing wrong with that. Moreover, we do not accept any investments from anyone who is not either a high net worth individual or a sophisticated investor and who ought to understand exactly what they are doing when they invest in unlisted shares of a private limited company.

Moreover, you completely ignored the first part of relevant sentence "once Occam's razor strongly suggests that some investment is a ponzi scheme...". Are you suggesting that Bitcoin Magazine looks like a duck? I'd say then that you bring up lame duck arguments.

The tone of the community is an issue, indeed. Gullibility and naivety of majority of posting population here is astonishing. Complete lack of basic understanding of how to present a coherent or sound argument and inability to recognise trivial logical fallacies are incredible as well.

P.S. Matthew, say "unkle".