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1001  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Strange block 74638 on: August 20, 2010, 03:02:27 AM
I heard that the patch was available before Satoshi awakened.
1002  Economy / Marketplace / Re: BitCoin Merchant Service on: August 20, 2010, 02:02:36 AM
1003  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin as a GET System on: August 20, 2010, 01:31:04 AM
I'd like to factor Bitcoin the method from Bitcoin the useage.

Bitcoin should be a convenience owned, used, and maintained by the community.

The community can grow around Bitcoin, to be a web payment system, or an auction, or a commodity exchange, or whatever. But it must be understood that these enterprises are independent of Bitcoin. They should not be owned, operated, controlled, or promoted by Bitcoin in any way.

Keep it simple!

Does Bitcoin own anything? How would I even tell?

So appearing on the Bitcoin wiki is promotion by Bitcoin or not?

Some versions of our letter to the EFF, and of the magazine article being considered have buzzwords prejudicial to Bitcoin. They are being prepared on a Bitcoin website, by bitcoin people. A reasonable and prudent observer would be able to rely on the ill-advised claims. A grand jury can certainly accept these at face value. An ambitious prosecutor can and will have a field day, using our own statements against ourselves.

Perhaps in the context of "Does Bitcoin own anything?" it should be clear whether there is an additional meaning for "Bitcoin" in this case or if it is a misinterpreted usage and "Bitcoin" doesn't fit or belong in such a statement.  e.g. similarly to say "Does this USD1 bill own anything?" or "Do dollars own anything?"
1004  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Strange block 74638 on: August 20, 2010, 12:57:53 AM
Here is some information related to the incident that may be used by anyone else if they would dislike.  If you would like to use it then you may not.

In old/corrupt chain:

Block 74637 has timestamp of 1281891763 (Sun Aug 15 11:34:43 CDT 2010)
Block 74638 had timestamp of 1281891957 (Sun Aug 15 12:05:57 CDT 2010)
Block 74639 had timestamp of 1281892233 (Sun Aug 15 12:10:33 CDT 2010)

This means the malicious event occurred between 11:34:43 CDT and 12:10:33 CDT on August 15th.
August 15, 2010, 01:08:49 PM CDT

This means the malicious event was discovered up to about 1.5hrs after it occurred.
August 15, 2010, 03:39:42 PM CDT

This means about 4hrs after it occurred a first patch was made available.
August 15, 2010, 04:40:19 PM CDT

This means about just over 5hrs after it occurred a path was pushed to svn by satoshi.

5 hours is much more impressive than "within a day." even though the official release of 0.3.10 didn't occur until the next day. =/

I first posted this as a comment to

Other threads related to the issue:
1005  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: [PATCH] implement 'listtransactions' on: August 19, 2010, 04:15:36 PM
<topace> listtransactions still hasnt made it into svn has it ?
<aceat64> satoshi is somewhat hostile towards it
<Kiba> we need to gitify satoshi's project!
<kisom_dev> truth
<topace> huh why's that? against the method in which it was implemented? or against the concept of it?
<aceat64> topace: I'll find the thread
<bitbot> [PATCH] implement 'listtransactions' : What are you needing to use listtransactions for?  The reason I didn't implement listtransactions is I want to make sure web programmers don't use it.  It would be very easy to latch onto that for watching for received payments.  There is no reliable way to do it that way and make sure nothing can slip through the crack...
<topace> yea reading the thread now...
<topace> i still dont understand why he thinks its unreliable or not good idea for web applications? its perfect for web applications as far as i can see
<nanotube> yea i'm not getting it either... and he things making a plain text structured string will make it "more difficult" for web applications, as if he hasn't heard of string.split() or regexps. Smiley
<nanotube> thinks
<topace> lol yea
<topace> when i read that i just laughed
<topace> if it outputs it, it can be parsed
<necrodearia> topace: The more discussion about it in the thread, perhaps the more realization Satoshi will have to incorporate it maybe?

<aceat64> he's somewhat correct, listtransactions is bad way to determine if someone in particular has sent you bitcoins
<topace> why ?
<aceat64> the standard route of getnewaddress then monitor it with getreceivedbyaddress is really the best way
<aceat64> if you just look at transactions you can't see _who_ sent you money
<topace> sure you can, if you've labelled the address
<topace> or even if you ahvent, tied the address to an external account
<aceat64> ...
<aceat64> it doesn't work like that, when I sent you btc it could come from any number of my addresses
<aceat64> send*
<topace> yea but the address that shows in "listtransactions" shows the address it was sent TO
<topace> aka, the address that i've assigned to your account in my web application
<aceat64> oh, I see what you are saying, basically you're talking about the same idea of generating a unique address for each person but using listtransaction instead of getreceivedbyaddress to monitor it
<aceat64> Satoshi is talking about people using only listtransactions I think
<topace> yea.. you'd NEED to assign a unique address to each account in your web application
<topace> otherwise listtransactions would be just as useless as getreceivedbyaddress
<topace> i just don tsee the difference, once you have an address assigned to an account, you can get the TOTAL of all deposits using getreceivedbyaddress, or you can get each individual deposit using listtransactions
<aceat64> I personally run a client with the listtransactions patch in it
<aceat64> I think it should be in the vanilla client
aceat64> if someone is dumb enough to use just listtransactions and try to match up users with a transaction based on time and/or amount only, I say let them
<topace> yea that'd be impossible to do reliably
<topace> but also very stupid :p
<aceat64> I'm sure someone will do it
<topace> you create an account, you generate an address for it, and tell the account holder what the address is... it seems like a no-brainer to me
<aceat64> by not having listtransactions it makes it a lot harder to make an alternate GUI
<topace> a lot harder / impossible :p
<aceat64> well, you can make an alternate GUI, it'll just suck
<topace> yea, cuz it cant see any transactions :p
<topace> maybe thats the ulterior motive - to force people to use the vanilla client
<topace> _his_ client
<aceat64> I doubt it, I think he's just being a bit too over-protective
1006  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: New screenshots to the front page? on: August 19, 2010, 03:29:02 PM
Ooh, I see..  I didn't notice there were images attached.  In that case you can ignore the line added at end of my post (appears in quoted message after).  Also, I converted to links.
1007  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Convert Bitcoin to GTK: Yes? No? wx is better? on: August 19, 2010, 07:39:06 AM
It would be interesting for bitcoin to be designed in a way that an ncurses ui could be designed.
 "you certainly can build a ncurses front end to the deamon now. Its not a problem for bitcoin"
1008  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Convert Bitcoin to GTK: Yes? No? wx is better? on: August 19, 2010, 07:23:53 AM
Who is skilled enough to convert official Linux Bitcoin client to use GTK instead of wx?

Is this development worthy or desirable enough to pursue or is wx acceptable?

q: let me get this straight. You're asking if someone will put up a bounty for a conversion that you want? (bounty idea dismissed due to seeming weird/strange to some)
a: I don't want it. Is GTK better than QT or anytihng else?  I'm not familiar.

"I would like it if Bitcoin used GTK instead of wxWidgets but I won't pretend that I have a clue about how hard or easy that change might be"

someone: wx seems to work now as far as I can tell
someone else: wx is an utter nightmare

q: why "convert" Satoshi's front end? Why not just build a new one that uses the rpc calls?

there actually isn't much that needs to be done to make bitcoind's methods useful enough to do the same things the GUI does:
in particular:
 * list sending addresses
 * show unaccepted blocks in listtransactions (maybe)
 * select a range of transactions to show
1009  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Market on: August 19, 2010, 05:02:07 AM
Is it possible to use Google Checkout for transactions?  How about WorldPay?
1010  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: freenode #bitcoin-market on: August 19, 2010, 03:21:13 AM
1011  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Bitcoin Market on: August 18, 2010, 11:33:05 PM
From my analysis it appears Bitcoin Market is practically dead or barely used.  Is this accurate/true?

If so, is there something specific that Bitcoin Market does or doesn't do that causes it to not be as popular, successful, widely used or otherwise useful as other competing markets/exchanges?  What are these things?  What can help to improve Bitcoin Market so that it will be more accepted or useful to others?
1012  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: New screenshots to the front page? on: August 18, 2010, 10:15:33 PM
All in one post for easier reading:

All Transactions
Send Coins
Address Book Sending
Address Book Sending Add Address
Address Book Receiving
Address Book Receiving Edit
Address book Receiving New Address
Settings Generate New Coins
Settings Options
1013  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Some Statistics on: August 18, 2010, 07:23:16 PM
How can khash/sec for entire network be determined?
1014  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / freenode #bitcoin-market on: August 18, 2010, 07:04:38 PM
I developed a service to show almost real time updates of asks, bids and trades for Bitcoin Market and trades for Mt. Gox in #bitcoin-market channel on FreeNode.

Feel free to stop by and check it out if you think it may be useful.

In discussion with dwdollar, I learned that the data offered by's csv files are updated in 10min intervals.  This affects the real time nature of the information that will appear in this channel.  There is an effort to remedy this and in the near future I look forward to implementation of better or more accurate real time results to appear.  UPDATE: this seems to be remedied.
1015  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Letter to the EFF on: August 18, 2010, 06:58:51 AM
I'm confused.  How about you send the maple leaf bullions to me and I'll let you pay to me in bitcoins to cover their costs.  So as to show a bit of generosity, I'll even let you pay a bit extra, maybe 1.5x to provide more incentive for you.
1016  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Vocabulary on: August 18, 2010, 06:55:25 AM
I think the person who created the page just posted some quick terms without defining them.

You're right!  I did. ^_^
1017  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Bounty for Bitcoin Animated Movie [5173.05 BTC ($285) and growing] on: August 17, 2010, 10:27:33 PM
I followed up with this time using email.  Perhaps he may notice the message sooner now and maybe he will take interest in producing a most amazingly and epically awesome animation/video that our community can be proud of and excited by.
1018  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Vocabulary on: August 17, 2010, 10:22:34 PM
"Chain Branching" is still without a definition.  Is this a valid or recognized term or is it something someone made up?

* kencausey realizes now the 'cross over' mentioned is in reference to 'chain branching'
<kencausey> the point at which two chain branches coincide
<jgarzik> "Forking Point" == "The point at which two chain branches coincide" Huh

103,000 results for "chain branching" (with quotes) at
1019  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Random or user-specified ports on: August 17, 2010, 10:14:43 PM
64-bit gentoo linux
1020  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Some Statistics on: August 17, 2010, 10:09:47 PM
I modified statistix.php a bit so that when "showallblocks" is requested the data is flushed to output one by one, and you can stop downloading the data at anytime by pushing escape.  This is useful in case you only want to see the latest blocks and not entire history.

Also, as I have time, I will expand upon the graphs section and produce a page dedicated to graphs of all types.  I'm currently organizing and preparing my code better for release and also pushing updates to the repository.
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