Bitcoin Forum
April 25, 2024, 02:35:58 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
  Home Help Search Login Register More  
  Show Posts
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 ... 219 »
161  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: How to put Mt. Gox into involuntary bankruptcy in Japan. on: February 25, 2014, 11:00:12 PM
Overview of the Japanese insolvency process, to help manage creditor expectations (it varies in some respects from the typical Western process, especially in terms of transparency and creditor input).

http://www.bingham.com/Publications/Files/2012/02/A-Practical-Guide-to-Japanese-Insolvency-Procedures
162  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Gox Report stating it is 50% solvent? Thoughts? on: February 25, 2014, 10:19:39 PM
I suspect that document is fake. Likely it was created outside Mt. Gox, or it was created within Mt. Gox as a deniable deception.

It's in the interest of Mt. Gox management that outside "hackers", not they, be blamed for losses. That's suspicious. No way could they lose that much via an outside attack. Inside help would be needed.

I think it could possibly be a half-assed report knocked up on behalf of a potential buyer of Gox who released it in spite when their offer was refused. TwoBitIdiot, who "released" the document, said  "I also received a 27 page business plan, written in 2014, entitled “Business Plan Europe 2014-2017”." Apparently this document is a "polished" study - perhaps the real internal Gox proposal.

http://two-bit-idiot.tumblr.com/post/77817993185/motives-disclosures-suspicions-mt-gox-update#disqus_thread

Just speculating of course.

It's likely that the 27 page Business Plan was put together a long time ago and reflects plans which might have been viable under the circumstances which existed at the time (thus the absence of any reference to MtGox's financial woes).  Trying to take elements of it and turn it into a "Crisis Strategy" which will work under totally changed circumstances is an exercise in futility. 

In fact, MtGox should have paid proper consultants to come up with a proper crisis strategy if they believed there was any hope of the company being salavaged.
163  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: After Mark Karpeles declares bankruptsy on: February 25, 2014, 12:56:02 PM
He'll get a job at BFL.  He'll fit right in there.
164  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: MtGox class action lawsuit? on: February 25, 2014, 12:48:12 PM
I wonder what happens when you learn that there's no such thing as class action in Japan.

Let's try it out.

Notice: There is no class action in Japan.
Is there any alternative?

P.S. Such a suit would work because of 2 reasons: 1) people have gotten arrested because of bitcoins; 2) fiat.

You could check the legal sub-forum.  It's been under discussion there for days.

165  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: NO PROOF MtGox is insolvent - Document possibly a Hoax? - STOP THE FUD! on: February 25, 2014, 12:27:57 PM

 Is Mark Karpeles really this dumb, does anyone really know him. \


Many big names who previously supported MtGox have very publicly distanced themselves from Mark today.  They probably know him far better than any ordinary users.
166  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: NO PROOF MtGox is insolvent - Document possibly a Hoax? - STOP THE FUD! on: February 25, 2014, 12:12:04 PM
MtGox refused to even comment when asked by Wired about the allegations.  They're doing absolutely nothing to convey the actual truth to the public, so at this point it's their own damned fault if people believe the rumours.  They've had every opportunity to deny the various rumours which have sprung up over the last few day and consistently refused to state that they are solvent. 

The onus is pretty much on them to prove their solvency now.  Once you stop paying people what you owe them without any agreement in place about when they will be paid, the presumption of insolvency applies by default.  It's the lack of information from MtGox itself which is destroying MtGox.
167  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Roger Ver : Gox "worst-run business in the history of the world". on: February 25, 2014, 12:07:54 PM

why dont these early adopters buy up the business & help the little guys out ? re-staff & limit the BTC withdraws.

its been done before.



MtGox is up to its neck in legal dramas.  Why would anyone buy a company which regulators or law enforcement might shut down any day?

People are already furious about MtGox being unable to process withdrawals in a timely manner.  Any new owners who tried to limit withdrawals would quickly find themselves facing lawsuits.
168  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Roger Ver : Gox "worst-run business in the history of the world". on: February 25, 2014, 11:43:39 AM

lol. he was endorsing them not too long ago.

Charlie Shrem was sticking up for them earlier today and hours later claiming he'd been "lied to".

People can't distance themselves from MtGox fast enough today.
169  Economy / Service Discussion / Roger Ver : Gox "worst-run business in the history of the world". on: February 25, 2014, 11:17:58 AM
Quote
“Gox is the worst-run business in the history of the world,” said Roger Ver, in an instant message interview. Ver is a bitcoin advocate who lives across the street from Mt. Gox’s Tokyo offices and tried to help out the troubled exchange the last time it was hacked, back in 2011.

http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2014/02/bitcoins-mt-gox-implodes/

The shit has truly hit the fan.
170  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: MTGox lost 750K Bitcoins? on: February 25, 2014, 07:22:25 AM
A rather interesting question is whether the failure of MtGox to maintain proper accounting measures rises to the level of negligence.  I sure as hell wouldn't like to be the person explaining to whoever investigates corporate failures in Japan exactly why their accounting systems were so woefully inadequate.
171  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: MTGox lost 750K Bitcoins? on: February 25, 2014, 06:40:43 AM
Nobody said that they lost 750k BTC to transaction malleability.

Er... yes they did. It's right there in the Gox document.

Half of that document isn't even in comprehensible English.

If you notice, it also says that cold storage got wiped out due to a leak in the hot wallet.  That can't be explained by transaction malleability alone. Something had to be very, very wrong with MtGox's accounting procedures for them not to realise that they had paid out more than they should have over such a long period of time.  

In fact the document explicitly says that "regardless of malleability and regulatory issues, MtGox's main problems are massive robbery and poor bitcoin accounting".

The short-fall should have shown up when they reconciled their accounts because the funds left their wallets twice even though it only showed up once in their accounts.  The discrepancy would have shown up when the hot wallet balance was lower than what it should have been according to "the books" - just the same as if the bank double processed every bill payment you made, you'd notice when you checked your bank balance because it would be lower than it should be.

A business that size should be reconciling their accounts at least daily.  There should have been procedures in place to ensure that the amount of funds shown as going out of the hot-wallet was the same as the amount which actually left the hot-wallet and it shouldn't have been possible to refill the hot wallet unless those two amounts reconciled.  If they weren't reconciling the hot wallet balance against the books then they had no mechanism in place to protect against embezzlement, either.

The malleability issue may have uncovered something deeper, but it's definitely not the whole story.  Just their book-keeping procedures should have revealed this.  If it's a long-standing problem, then a short-fall should have shown up when their financial statements were prepared last year (remember the Japanese financial year ends 31 March).
172  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Mt.Gox Multi-plaintiff Suit on: February 25, 2014, 06:19:53 AM
At this point people with money in Mt. Gox should be contacting the Tokyo police and reporting that Mt. Gox took their money and disappeared as a company. Do this now. Make sure Mark Karpeles' passport is flagged so he can't leave Japan.

I'm not usually inclined to repeat unsubstantiated rumours but there were reports last week that MtGox staff had been required to surrender their passports (I've got no way to confirm it but it wouldn't have been an unusual step given multiple government investigations going on in relation to MtGox).

While I understand that the authorities have said that they can't regulate Bitcoin exchanges, I presume that normal corporation law applies.  The "leaked document" appears to provide evidence that MtGox is knowingly trading while insolvent so it's definitely worth reporting that to whoever is responsible for enforcing corporations law in Japan.  The mainstream media has picked up the story now, so it shouldn't be too difficult to get that particular option in motion.

It's possible that there are insufficient grounds for criminal complaints as yet, but it's worth a try I guess.

Another avenue to try is Japanese trade organisations in your own country.  They may be more familiar with the appropriate legal options than the rest of us.
173  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Coinbase Statement on: February 25, 2014, 05:46:18 AM
NY Times is now covering the story.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/25/business/apparent-theft-at-mt-gox-shakes-bitcoin-world.html?_r=1

Quote
On Monday night, a number of leading Bitcoin companies jointly announced that Mt. Gox, the largest exchange for most of Bitcoin’s existence, was planning to file for bankruptcy after months of technological problems and what appeared to have been a major theft. A document circulating widely in the Bitcoin world said the company had lost 744,000 Bitcoins in a theft that had gone unnoticed for years. That would be about 6 percent of the 12.4 million Bitcoins in circulation.
174  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Gox.com just sold! what a night! on: February 25, 2014, 05:35:43 AM
The worst part is if they are insolvent they just spend god knows how much of depositors money on that domain name. 

You're forgetting Mark's arrogance/ego.  He would have absolutely assumed that someone would want to buy MtGox out (as if, given that they're knee-deep in legal shit for the foreseeable future) or that the heavyweights of the community would put together a rescue package. 

It's likely inconceivable to Mark that nobody regards the "mighty MtGox" as worth rescuing and that "community heavyweights" are distancing themselves from him and MtGox as fast as possible.  That MtGox is not going to be given "one more chance" is probably inconceivable to him.

How many times have you seen this before in business - an owner hanging on and hoping for miracles long past the point where it's become apparent to others that it's past the point of redemption?  Such behaviour almost inevitably makes things worse for creditors, but it's far from uncommon.
175  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: It appears Mt. Gox isn't dead but rebranding as Gox after 1 month hiatus. on: February 25, 2014, 05:26:08 AM
If the doc is true, it means they've lost 750,000 BTC - no way they'll be coming back.

Even Charlie Shrem, who was defending them only hours ago, is now saying on reddit he was "lied to".

A rescue package or buyout was never a realistic option - MtGox is way too deep in legal shit on so many different legal fronts to be an attractive acquisition for anyone.
176  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Mt.Gox Multi-plaintiff Suit on: February 25, 2014, 05:17:33 AM
i'm in for the plaintiff suit if/when this gets started

It's probably moot now.
177  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Gox.com just sold! what a night! on: February 25, 2014, 04:12:47 AM
why would you buy a domain name in the same few days you apparently become insolvent?

They still think they can come back, rebranded and customers are stupid enough to get goxxed a fourth (or is it fifth or sixth) time.


It's worked for them so far and it works for the dark markets.  You can't really blame them for believing that greed will over-ride common-sense when that's been their experience of Bitcoin users so far (people have continued depositing funds to MtGox even after withdrawals were halted, FFS).
178  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: MTGox lost 750K Bitcoins? on: February 25, 2014, 03:40:36 AM
The rumor does not fit it into the transaction malleability scheme, confirmed to be a fact by foundation people.
All big withdrawals were checked manually,Gox has tight withdrawal limits on unverified accounts(on verified in fact too).
Therefore stealing 750k is i think iMPOSSIBLE.

Nobody said that they lost 750k BTC to transaction malleability.  gmaxwell pointed out a few days back that it was possible that they'd lost more than they claimed to that issue but it was far from their only problem.

We have no idea when MtGox was last independently audited.  It's entirely possible that it's only in trying to determine their losses due to the transaction malleability issue that they've looked far enough into their accounts to uncover other losses of which they were previously unaware.  Small companies, in particular, have a bad habit of not looking below the surface often enough.  

Huge financial institutions have constant checks and balances in place, spend billions on infrastructure,  and still incur losses.  It's all too easy to believe that MtGox had infrastructure totally insufficient for keeping track of their true financial situation.

Quote
Well, I guess everyone already read the joint statement from the other exchanges, are there any confirmations on how big is the damage?

MtGox hasn't even acknowledged the latest accusations yet.  They'd be foolish to issue any public statement without expert legal advice at this point, so I wouldn't expect anything definitive any time soon unless it's a public statement saying that they're filing for insolvency protection.
179  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: MTGox lost 750K Bitcoins? on: February 25, 2014, 03:33:31 AM
Site isn't down.  It's just totally empty now.
180  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Coinbase Statement on: February 25, 2014, 03:11:56 AM
Given that some of those are people you would have expected to be involved in putting together a rescue package if one was going to be forthcoming, Gox has pretty much been thrown to the wolves (and deservedly so).
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 ... 219 »
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!