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Anybody have that original snapshot of the GENESIS (before we even claimed)?
It's somewhere in this monster thread!
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ETA on the new client, please. I've tried to claim and never got anything through. As has been said before, some of us have tried to claim for weeks/months or, have already claimed 2-3 times. It's not like some people are just leaving everything to the last second.
I'm ready to claim NOW - I just need a client that will work for that procedure and have been told in slack to wait for the new one.
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Has the new client arrived?
Has claiming been made easy now?
I was not able to get tx to confirm!
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Is claiming frozen again? Any updates?
It would be nice if devs could fix the claiming. Most users cannot access their IOTAs.
I hope it haven't been deleted.
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Any estimate on the market cap at current levels? I'm trying to onboard some more friends.
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Current Ti to BTC price is? Thanks! Is Iota on an exchange ? Or coinmarketcap?
It is only on Yassin-DEX provided within slack (slack.iotatoken.com -> channel #trading). I believe it will be on famous exchanges soon (maybe it's last time you see such low prices), because the light-wallet is extremely easy to use and will be stable-released soon. I guess coinmarketcap follows immediately after, as happens with other coins. |
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Excited about light wallet... great job.
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YES! The time has finally come! this time we switch to mBTC ^^  |
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Just charge in dollars and accept payment in BTC with a window of a few hrs after the job is complete. That way you can always charge the same for the job and no one will feel like they over or underpaid. I have a problem with this price rise:
As many people know, I fix people's bitcoin miners for bitcoin payments. Thus I have to account for my time, skills, experience, and material costs (damn FPGAs are expensive when they blow up). I price my work in bitcoin because I want this currency to have a reason to exist other than as a speculation thingie.
Problem is the fluctuations: If I charge .3btc for a service and bitcoin drops from 600 to 300 I don't want to raise my bitcoin prices so I kept them constant. Likewise if it goes from 600-1200 I don't want to change my prices for the same basic reason (I'm doing work for a certain amount of bitcoin). But if it keeps going haywire, what do I do? What's fair? And at what point am I simply doing work for dollars instead of Bitcoin?
It's complex.
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Come on $16 billion!!!
I'm dying to see $20 billion before Jan 15th.
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Ok David, You win. I take back everything I ever said questioning your abilities behind the scenes. You're still an asshole. But, I no longer believe that you are riding any coattails... a lot of this project IS coming together because of your hard work. Bravo. R ps. try to be a little nicer this year (even with other assholes like me  ) ps2. very excited to see where you will lead this project |
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That will take alot of BTC!!!  This will be my first buy in 2017:  |
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WHAT!>!>!>>!>!!??!?!?! That would be insane.
Bitfury: Last 24hrs couple of $10bln+ AUM Funds calling to buy 30k-50k bitcoins.. We were not selling then / not selling now
Boom.gif
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Sorry that this is happening Seccour, Much of the community really appreciates the help you've been; though I have not used your services at all, I still appreciate the time you've put in here and on slack. No point in even saying anything else I suppose. People just can't stop making argument and showing off here. What a waste of time. I said so because I absolutely had no time and interest to read any of this kind walls of text except they were posted by the devs. I really hope devs don't need to spend time to read and answer this kind walls of text because they could spend the time in more productive way.
They don't read it don't worry. They start drama by replying to post that didn't concern them and ban the person who post it because they didn't understand the comment. ( BTW David for your information : this is drama. ) |
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Great! THX! This is exactly what I wanted to hear. Some months from now or about a year from now? Has this deadline shifted again or not? Periodical snapshots of the Tangle are a normal and expected part of the IOTA network.
It is not a transition and it does not affect in any circunstance those who are yet to make their claims.
If you have not yet claimed there's nothing else you need to do but to claim before the end period, some months from now.
If you have already claimed, your iotas are safe on the Tangle as long as you keep your secret seed safe.
And if you are a IOTA early adopter, please consider running a IOTA full node. This way you will be directly contributing for the growth and the success of the project.
11th of July 2017 |
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Some months from now or about a year from now? Has this deadline shifted again or not? Periodical snapshots of the Tangle are a normal and expected part of the IOTA network.
It is not a transition and it does not affect in any circunstance those who are yet to make their claims.
If you have not yet claimed there's nothing else you need to do but to claim before the end period, some months from now.
If you have already claimed, your iotas are safe on the Tangle as long as you keep your secret seed safe.
And if you are a IOTA early adopter, please consider running a IOTA full node. This way you will be directly contributing for the growth and the success of the project.
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It is not my intention to find out. But, I would assume so - to be perfectly honest. This goes to my point, once more, since this is the only space "we" users know David in, it is fair to assume that this is indeed how he is. I spent time on IOTA chat also and it was only marginally better there, so again, because everything is run via stealth mode, I have no way to gauge how or what his behavior would be like in "professional" settings. But, his behavior has been this vile on here on IOTA chat, on NXT, etc. If you want to risk your own contacts, then go ahead. For me, I'm just happy that the software has been shaping up nicely and that technical issues seem to be solved at an impressive rate - I'm sure David is part of that as well and I thank him for his contributions there. But, as a face of the project, I have my concerns about his ability to communicate with others (as I've made clear 100x before). I hope you are right and that his behind the scenes communication is stellar and great and thoughtful - I'm just not in a position to tell. Neither are others who have also shown concern about this very issue. But, enough about this. Let's just agree to disagree on this issue and move on. I fully support the software and IOTA's technical vision. Do you mean that David behavie with the CEO-s in "real world" the same way as he does with some random anonymous guy sitting at bitcointalk forum?  |
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A few problems with what you are implying: 1) these are stories from people already in ABSOLUTE power over their markets. These are multi-billion dollar companies already. Sure we can find stories about Jobs or Musk or Zuckerberg or whomever acting insane - but it's confirmation bias to assume that these tactics are a net-positive for them, as most other entrepreneurs who act this way are usually gone after some short time. These guys were not successful because of these outbursts but in spite of them. I would argue that it cost Jobs the first time around, in fact. 2) to be more blunt, I personally know several CEOs and board members of fortune 500 companies (in fact, these people are themselves in Forbes and the like). I have not reached out to them mainly because I don't believe it is in my best interest to do so with the way that David communicates with others - also, these people are going to have others who work for them look through these type of threads (in fact, look through everything available) and it WILL LOOK BAD, PERIOD. I know so because I have asked some of them indirectly about this. People who have net-worths in the 9 and 10 figures in USD don't care about making MORE money if it means dealing with extremely difficult human beings. Since David presents himself as both being extremely difficult AND runs much of IOTA (and JINN) in stealth mode, it becomes hard to gauge how hard I should push for the attention of people who don't have too much time to waste. Lastly, I'm sure I'm not the only person who has held back from forwarding this project to influential people because of a lack of transparency (which I have no problem with, I'm just not convinced it's the best way to go in this particular case [big deal and foundation details, etc])... anyway, my original point stands. I'm still not convinced that it's in the best interest of IOTA to have David be this devastatingly aggressive to such a large number of users here (if it was just 1 or 2 arguments, ok... but it's to almost every question posed). I've talked enough about this issue, nothing has ever changed, so, I will leave it be - but, I assure you that this is a misstep on David's part towards his vision for IOTA and the future (a vision I want him to succeed in). edit- typo A reliable source has passed along a legal document in the ongoing lawsuit between Google and Microsoft over Google’s hiring of Kai-Fu Lee. The document is the “Declaration of Mark Lucovsky” in the case. Lucovsky was a distinguished engineer at Microsoft who defected to Google in November of 2004. His statement makes for some pretty interesting reading, to say the least. The statement reads in part: Prior to joining Google, I set up a meeting on or about November 11, 2004 with Microsoft’s CEO Steve Ballmer to discuss my planned departure….At some point in the conversation Mr. Ballmer said: “Just tell me it’s not Google.” I told him it was Google.
At that point, Mr. Ballmer picked up a chair and threw it across the room hitting a table in his office. Mr. Ballmer then said: “Fucking Eric Schmidt is a fucking pussy. I’m going to fucking bury that guy, I have done it before, and I will do it again. I’m going to fucking kill Google.” ….Just FYI  |
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The guy took his time and was thoughtful in his response and your reaction is to tell him to kill himself? It's gotten to the point that you appear totally unable to control your emotions - why this much aggression (always at levels far higher than warranted)? Your comments through-out this thread are a danger to your career in how extreme they are, please, once again, just consider stepping away from this forum for the health of your own project. These comments look ok here, but they won't be nearly as easy to distance yourself from as the project grows as large as you intend to make it. The CEO can't be asking that people: kill themselves, or that they are so stupid as to potentially cause "you" cancer (a comment you made to me months ago - btw, I lost my father to cancer when I was 27), etc etc etc. You are hurting the project with these maneuvers. They also add nothing of value, just work on what you are good at - keep to the (obvious) hard work you have been putting in behind the scenes. There are more people reading this thread that could help/hurt the project than you imagine. A perspective from an economist
Secondary markets like the current IOTA/BTC market are essential to the primary market of the ICO. If there was no secondary market, the primary market would struggle. Imagine an ICO where investors know they will later not be able to sell their shares.
This link between primary and secondary market is not binary -- linked or not linked -- but instead very gradual: the more liquid a secondary market (and/or the higher the price), the better for for the primary market. If you think of the ICO as the initial primary market and today's market as the secondary market: without the expectation of the market today at the time of the ICO, the initial ICO market would not have existed (are much less of it).
In the nex step, you can think of today's market as the primary market and tomorrow's market as the secondary market. The logic is the same: the more liquid we expect the future market to be, the better for today's market (--> higher price today). This link is present from today to the (infinite) future.
The main lesson here is: any investor at any time always adds value to a project. Investors play an essential role for crypto projects in general, invluding IOTA. Of course, the coding is much more important. But the code would never come to its full potetnial wthout investors. Investors provide the financial incentive for all the devs in a project. Granted, there are incentives at work other than the financial one. But the financial incentive is rather important: after all, people have to eat from time to time.
Investors and developers live in a symbiosis.
Your logic is correct, but the company behind IOTA sold 'software', so the value of the token is not relevant to them. The metric to ultimately judge their performance is nodes in the field, not token value. As long as they're consistent I think they can continue to tell speculators to 'fuck off' (i.e. they can't claim credit for any x20 returns). David has chosen to reject the relevance of your analysis to IOTA, and as long as he doesn't claim credit for later secondary market values he's being consistent. Despite agreeing with the validity of your economic explanation, with IOTA I am now using node numbers as the barometer to measure the success of this project. I changed my opinion from the start. edit: I think a better analogy to use with IOTA is that of a creative pursuits like music, art, writing etc The sincere artist always prefers to measure success using the metric of 'users' or 'consumers' or 'viewers' of their work, the financial metrics of success (i.e sales) is an emergent phenomenon arising from the number of users/viewers/readers etc. Any artist who focuses on the financial metric first will generally produce bad art, but the ones who focus on reching the widest audience generally make better art, and as a side-effect sometimes make money Of course we can, and do, claim credit for the ROI. This is a non-starter. The difference lies in 2 things: 1) We never PROMISED anyone ANY ROI, so anyone complaining about anything related to it is worthless 2) The GOAL of the project is a genuine paradigm shift in the zeitgeist of technology. We are bringing about a new realm of economics through 'real time on demand' services which for the first time ever is enabled by zero fees, a machine-to-machine economy to open up interoperability of IoT and data integrity. These are all revolutionary concepts that a minority of IOTA holders seem to grasp in its entirety. Therefore this is our focus, money is easy, we are offered millions weekly to go into the private sector exclusively, not interesting. Changing a whole ecosystem is a worthy challenge, with a way better long term 'ROI' You argue like a politician on ROI - if it looks good, I'll take the credit, when it looks bad, 'not my problem, I made no promises, I'm not responsible'. This is how every major political leader rationalises the world. edit: The relationship between ICO price, liquidity provided by speculators/investors in secondary market, and ROI is very clear. IOTA has not launched yet, so any ROI of x20 is due 100% to speculators in the secondary market, there has been no direct demand for the token from actual usage yet. Claiming credit for the x20 ROI is not correct logic, especially before IOTA is actually being used machine-to-machine as intended. Anyone who argues otherwise looks very foolish. The only metric that you should use to sing your own praises is number of nodes. All price related success is down to the speculators so far, and you tell them to 'fuck off' repeatedly. Stick with node numbers as your yardstick and you wont end up looking like a dick. You are a parody of a person, if I was half as dumb as you I'd officially end it and be an organ donor. |
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Way to keep your cool. I agree that it's not productive to engage further on the matter. Best, Let me say that, outside of my continued concern in having David interacting with the community on THIS forum, clearly something that is not working for most of the year now, (though things are usually better in the official IOTA channels), that I'm also worried about the constant "last claim didn't count but the next one will". If I'm not mistaken, we already claimed last year, then once MORE last year then again under the new GUI earlier this year (then were also asked to create a new ultra secure account/seed - which most did)... now, we have been asked to claim AGAIN.
This doesn't inspire too much confidence and is perhaps why many people (myself included) have deciding to wait until later in the year (or next year since we have a one year deadline) to make this "new" claim. It feels kind of shitty to have been part of three or four snapshots and secured seeds and jumped through hoops only to find out "it didn't really count". This is doubly worrisome when the CEO of the company comes out with aggressive demands that a customer forcibly accept a refund (at an economic disadvantage at that) - a refund, mind you, that should have already been impossible four times over, as most people have already claimed multiple times only to have the entire network re-set.
To be clear, I'm not too upset about re-setting and optimizing the network (or waiting generally)... but, to wait and be told: "STFU or you will have your seed and account excluded from the genesis snapshot" is extremely disturbing.
As a last point, it would suck to claim - go away for two years for x reason, come back and be told "well, sorry, that claim didn't count because we re-set everything 4-5 more times after we opened the claim process". That has legal and PR trouble written all over it and I would tread carefully here to make sure no one is excluded for things which were not part of the software sale.
**meaning, I don't assume that there was a clause in the sale that said you were forced to keep up with development on a weekly/monthly basis after getting your software released to you. If anything, the re-setting of the network, if it left a member who participated in the software sale on the outside looking in, would look to constitute a breach. This can, of course, all be avoided with some careful planning and understanding from the dev group. I hope this is thought over carefully.
Best,
rtrt
I refuse to engage further in this discussion, and you know our past discussions on this which I don't think any of us will want to revive, but if you insist we will. On your concrete criticisms 1. If you feel that having to keep an eye on the project is an unreasonable demand, then you were never cut out for this in the first place. We are revolutionizing already revolutionizing technology here, OF COURSE it will go through iterations. Ethereum is 3 years old and have already hardforked several times, we haven't even released the software in full yet. I am completely flabbergasted by those who think in terms of " hey, I deposted a few btc in an account, now I can lay back and be entitled to anything I want while these people work from 8 am until 3 am every day to make me rich" 2. I never said anything remotely like what you just paraphrased. OF COURSE I will offer a refund to dissatisfied customers. This is called professionalism in any other industry but the insanity of the greedy crypto world. And if the person continues to slander / be of annoyance to other customers ( which is what you are when you delay the entire project ) then refund is no longer voluntary, but a decision made by the company. I am 100% comfortable with taking anyone to the full legal road on this here in Norway where the company and sale was legally conducted. The fact that this is even remotely controversial exposes the true intent of the purchasers, they are speculators who we told to fuck off pre-sale. 3. What you call my 'aggression' is actually a very reasonable and measured response to completely insane demands. We have delivered the software with tons of additions on top of it, going way beyond our original sales agreement. In addition to this we have made people already a 30x ROI. Anywhere else on Earth you'd expect the receivers to be on their knees praising your work, but not in crypto, in crypto you have to deal with retarded idiots whining like fucking entitled fucktards. In order to not just quit the entire project you have to be allowed to vent that tension in an honest manner, and I prefer this over being a manipulative guy who just lies to the community, which is what you seem to call for. |
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