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1141  Economy / Speculation / Re: 200 on: October 22, 2013, 03:12:20 PM
Can they get their flat out from that exchange?
MtGox doesn't really count because it's inflated.
What I mean is you cannot get flat out of MtGox, which means the price is irrelevant. It can goto $1000000 on there, but it won't matter because you won't be able to get it out. Best to just ignore MtGox.

Y'all are retarded.
(1) MtGox doesn't count cuz it's inflated - are you talking about how the spread has been ~10% between various exchanges for iunno, the last 6 months and longer if you consider different exchanges? Stop whining and get over it already. The amount of focus on this is astounding... Sure if it were $1000000 blah blah blah but IT'S FUCKING NOT, it's been roughly 10% higher than stamp for as long as most of your n00b memories go back. It's not 50% higher, it's not 200% higher, heck, it's not even LEADING the rally time-wise if you overlay the price charts! It's an artifact of reduced arb abilities and a few other factors.
(2) If you live in Japan, or if you are rich, you can easily get your fiat out of MtGox. There is a lot of wealth in Japan and there is a lot of wealth in the world. Anyone who says "You can't get fiat out of Gox" is flat out lying. Sure, it's harder than at the other exchanges, but it's not an impossibility, and stating it as such is misleading.
(3) CNY was over $200 equiv

Now, I hate Gox as much as the next guy. But we went over $200. Still, feel free to ruin the celebration with your mindless drivel! Party poopers.  Grin Grin Grin

Their attitude will influence their trades and the market will teach them.
1142  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - China wall movement tracker on: October 22, 2013, 03:03:50 PM
Moving again, guess they decided the Bitcoin fairy wasn't going to come back and shower them with more cheap coins Smiley

IMO in 2 - 3 hours btcnCNY will decide if the uptrend continues, or it crashes hard again. My guess is it will crash hard.

I hope your right.  My primary count has this last run up as wave 5 off the $65 bottom.  I'm not yet convinced it is over, but when it is we should have a sizable ABC.
1143  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: October 22, 2013, 02:57:01 PM
It's certainly possible to make additional profit trading, and despite the many losers there are always some winners. It seems to me, though, that the average person would be satisfied with Bitcoin-level annual gains if they believe it has a future, or if they understand and agree with the idea that Bitcoin is a heavily asymmetric bet. If you believe Bitcoin has a good chance of going mainstream, you believe you've been privileged to identify the investment opportunity of the century in the form of simply buying and holding.

Of course "you can always have more," but is it really that people are so easily looking this gift horse in the mouth, or is it something else? It seems to me that such a ready desire to increase the risk is more a sign of not really grasping Bitcoin's potential. It seems the mentality is to "get while the getting's good" because Bitcoin may not work out. I suppose everyone's had that thought at some point: "Bitcoin may eventually get squashed out of existence by governments or hackers, but I bet I can ride this train for one or two big jumps and cash out enough to live on." With that fearful mindset it becomes appealing to try to boost your gains since you don't know if you intend to see where this ride goes, and you don't really know if you believe it could ever reach $10,000 or $100,000 per coin.

And really, that's fine. Not everyone is a visionary, and this isn't a religion. Moreover, some bitcoin holders are experienced traders and would only risk small portions of their stash. But the tendency for so many people to so readily engage in such notoriously treacherous trading trying to catch price movements seems like it is a problem of lack of education or thought about Bitcoin's potential, including perhaps deep understanding of economics and technology adoption and otherwise whow deeply broken the establishment systems are and what circumnavigating them means for the global standard of living, etc.

Well said.
1144  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 22, 2013, 03:17:55 AM
1) Have trustworthy friends.
2) Make sure some of them reside on different continents than you.
3) Keep your savings in an m-of-n output, where the cooperation of one or more of your friends is needed to spend them.
4) You are now protected from rubber hose cryptography.

But that doesn't protect you from rubber hoses Sad
1145  Economy / Speculation / Re: Recent events in pictures. on: October 22, 2013, 01:20:35 AM
Good explanation of one factor currently affecting the market.
1146  Economy / Speculation / Re: Why the sudden price rise? on: October 22, 2013, 01:18:05 AM
look at the stock market. go and try to make some serious money by trading against the traders. you will lose most of the time. they have the faster machines, better information, more money etc. same thing will happen with bitcoins. people are working day and night to find a way to steal your money. its just a matter of time.
So day-trading on the stock market now equates to theft?   Huh

I am not angry at all. the hype sickens me. this isnt investing. this is flat out gambling.
Why does the hype sicken you, and why do you care?  Why do you care if people are "gambling" (in your opinion) with their money?

yes day trading is theft. have you ever seen a stock pounded right into nothing from people shorting it? day traders will suck the life out of any stock. whereas the people who have put sweat equity into their live saving and pensions or 401ks get nothing. is that fair?
high frequency trading is just as bad. flat out theft. the average investor has absolutley no chance against it.
What is the fundamental difference between day trading and other forms of investing in which the investor intends only to make a profit from other people, other than the time frame? That one is more successful? That doesn't seem like a significant  ethical difference to me.

Not only is shorting harder to pull off in most markets, without shorting bubbles would happen a lot more often.  Would that really be good for the company?
1147  Economy / Economics / Re: Viability of centrally issued P2P Cryptocurrency - best answers tipped! on: October 21, 2013, 10:38:27 PM
Centralization means single point of failure.  Why would I want a less robust cryptocurrency?
Either you didn't read my post or didn't understand it. Part of the currency storage is centralized - nothing else, so users will be better off if that point fails completely. Until it fails, it means more robust cryptocurrency compared to completely non-centralized minting such as everything on the market.


Yeah, no.

I trust math.  I don't trust the state.  Failure could mean many things, including flooding the market with their premined coins.  But keep gloating about being so clever.  It really makes me want to take you seriously.
1148  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: October 21, 2013, 10:36:45 PM
Yeah, I wouldn't put too much hope in that article, I am pretty confident it is mostly just a reaction of the body to aging (an effect instead of the cause).  Articles about "the one magic compound or pill that controls aging" are just selling stories. Nevertheless, aging IS curable, imo the best effort out there is SENS : .

Sorry for going off-topic, but I have some strong opinions on the matter, and I am hoping somewhat that some of the brighter out-of-the-box thinkers that you might find here might become intrigued by this as well  Smiley .

That's exactly what this research is... they were trying to improve the methods of measuring aging, not trying to find the cause.
1149  Economy / Speculation / Re: How to predict crash? on: October 21, 2013, 10:35:24 PM
there are also fibonacci retracements...

How accurate is that? Have you used them in the past?

well... some people say that the 61.8 or the 38.2 fib act as resistance/support...  the 61.8 fib on bitstamp is at 177 and mtgox is 183, and we are over both of them.

but then again this market is really f--ked up so who knows, we could be pissing into the wind and not know it

What's the difference between bitcoin market and other markets? Why is that fucked up?

Bitcoin is tiny compared to most markets.  This results in way more volatility and way less liquidity.
1150  Economy / Economics / Re: Everyone says US can't raise debt ceiling forever. Why? on: October 21, 2013, 10:33:38 PM
Europe would be shaken to shit if the USD failed and Asia's exports would take a big hit, hell, it would probably start a world war but its more or less inevitable. The US got left behind, they don't make enough of anything anyone wants to balance out their consumption of what the world has to sell and the longer that imbalance goes on the further they will have to fall. Maybe there's still some of those entrepreneurs and innovators that made the USA the great nation around and one of them can pull a rabbit out of the hat and make the USA the place to go for flying cars or personal spacecraft or something... and get slapped down with a 20 year patent lawsuit.

Exactly.  I have notebooks full of ideas that never got anywhere because of regulations and patents.  Our system allows trivial things to be patented, and they are only tested for triviality if someone has the funds to take the patent holder to court.  Where patents can't keep out competition, regulations abound.
1151  Economy / Speculation / Re: USDBTC Technical Analysis Charts 2011 & 2013 (Firefox Only) on: October 21, 2013, 10:29:52 PM
So, given the second chart... TA predicted SR was going to be closed that precise day!  WOW!  Roll Eyes

The crash happened about a week after the charges were filed.  TA works because insiders always trade, so the market sees the effect of the news before the news is public.
1152  Economy / Economics / Re: Viability of centrally issued P2P Cryptocurrency - best answers tipped! on: October 21, 2013, 08:12:04 PM
Centralization means single point of failure.  Why would I want a less robust cryptocurrency?
1153  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: October 21, 2013, 08:08:21 PM
You are forgetting an important dynamic: Interest rates. When consumption falls, savings rise and there are thus more money to be lent out. That means that the supply of money for loans rises and the price for loans fall which is the same as the interest rate falling. That means that it becomes more attractive to invest with borrowed money and this increases efficiency (if the investment is sound) which then increases the purchasing power and thus increases consumption. Yes. Capitalism is cool!

I didn't read the context, but this cool mechanism is being effectively anihilated by the feds easing.

=> we do not have capitalism any longer in the United States.
1154  Economy / Speculation / Re: Has anyone tried to measure mood to predict trend? on: October 21, 2013, 06:26:30 PM
I've thought about it, but I don't think thymos would be too keen about a bot that reads every post.
why not? isn't that what google does?  Smiley
And Google uses this information to direct many people to the forums.  This would only help me and would be a nonnegligible burden on the servers.
1155  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: October 21, 2013, 06:24:03 PM
so if the price keeps rising, how would we ever use it as a real currency to buy stuff?
i'm pretty sure everybody who has them has them for buy and hold or making profit, not for purchasing goods - I certainly don't because in two months the price might have doubled, and I would curse myself for giving them away "back then" instead of using real currency.

Your question is hard to understand.. why would the price rising affect its usefulness for purchasing goods?

If bitcoin rises, it would have been better to pay with fiat.
1156  Economy / Speculation / Re: Has anyone tried to measure mood to predict trend? on: October 21, 2013, 06:12:41 PM
I've thought about it, but I don't think thymos would be too keen about a bot that reads every post.
1157  Economy / Speculation / Re: recent rally in China is because of market emtion, not because of baidu on: October 21, 2013, 03:20:01 PM
This is important, because bitcoin is a bigger threat to a weakening fiat currency than to a strengthening one. China is still a long ways to go before their monetary and fiscal policy isn't as loose as a 13 year old Thai prostitute's vagina, but they are "tightening" and the U.S. is still "loosening." China's CB is also buying massive quantities of gold, and they encourage their citizens to purchase gold. So in some ways, Bitcoin is less of a threat to them and more of a threat to the dollar. They may not mind it so much since it may hurt their "enemy" more than it hurts them.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
1158  Economy / Speculation / Re: When will October's bubble burst? on: October 21, 2013, 03:17:46 PM
Whenever we get near 200 its like the ghost of the flash crash is up there lurking and creating this panicky crash energy where a whole bunch of asks show up and bids are hit hard and deep. This is twice that gox and btce have dropped 15 in the bat of an eye (bit stamp 10). I fear its only going to going to get worse as we go higher. And this is without any whales even capitulating. How do you guys handle this with your nerves or get any sleep? I've tried shorting these movements a few times only to lose tiny fractions of my position and waste an entire weekend. But the one time I don't bother will probably be when the whales finally capitulate.

This market historically has seen around 1000% per year increase.  Do you really think you're a good enough trader to beat 1000% a year?
1159  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It on: October 21, 2013, 03:14:42 PM
1. Ok
2. Out of Scope
3. Terribly inefficient Cheesy
4. I do want to see a vending machine that accepts bitcoin but still a pipe dream.
Use BIPS install IR reader on a vending machine give machine wifi == Woot

Regarding 3, how exactly is an ASIC any less efficient than any electric heater other than up front costs?  If energy is wasted that doesn't get converted to heat, where does that energy go?
1160  Economy / Speculation / Re: Analysis never ends on: October 21, 2013, 04:40:45 AM

makes sense right  Cry

OMG, I can see the future!
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