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2101  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: July 15, 2013, 10:51:48 PM
For me too, thanks.

Please explain. Truth hurts or what? I am puzzled  Smiley

I think he's asking for drugs.
2102  Economy / Economics / Re: Winkelvoss ETP could become THE pricing mechanism for BTC on: July 15, 2013, 10:48:51 PM
@NewLiberty

I believe in such a scenario, the ETF would cease to be THE pricing mechanism.  People will buy on the spot market as they become undervalued, decoupling the ETF rate from the "physical" rate.  Unlike gold or any other asset, the barrier to actually move the bitcoins is relatively small.
2103  Other / Off-topic / Re: Why is there no massive directory of everything for sale on the internet? on: July 15, 2013, 10:28:11 PM
Why is there no "mother of all websites" for retailed goods?  It seems like it would be a fairly simple thing to do.  Retailers batch-submit the goods they have for sale to a given website.  The website tracks price, qty in stock, what the item is, and useful specifications, matching up items as appropriate via UPC barcodes or whatever other unique identifiers they might have.

I suppose what I am picturing is sort of like Google Shopping, but with categorized items (enabling browsing by category) that are retailer-pushed rather than bot-scraped.  Sort of like the eBay of retailing.  eBay + Google Shopping, then, but without multiple listings per item.  Amazon sort of has the right idea, but everything goes through them, so if a vendor isn't set up to sell through Amazon, you don't see their goods.

As a consumer, I would love to have such a website with comprehensive, up-to-date information on who to buy from and what the best prices are.  Why hasn't a project like this been undertaken?

How will you motivate the retailers to push their data?  Sure, you could argue it would bring them traffic, but that only applies to the retailer with the best price.
2104  Economy / Speculation / Re: Liquidity problem on: July 15, 2013, 10:06:32 PM

Bitcoin has uses besides trading Roll Eyes

Yes, I know. But this is more in theory than in practise.

So you admit your theory doesn't apply here in reality?

My theory?? Bitcoin business on every corner in the world is not my theory. I do not see any businesses around me. But I see a lot of dreamers who think that they can live just selling forever rising in price bitcoins.



I too see a lot of dreamers who think everyone will be paying for their Amazon goodies in Bitcoin. Which is most likely a misapplication without some sort of intermediary layer.

Rather, Bitcoin will more likely evolve into a sort of SWIFT system for cryptos. Yeah, there will be those with some bitchange swapping it for e-books and VPN serivce, but that will essentially be a backwater of the crypto economy. 

I also see this as a likely future, and it fits with my statement that Bitcoin has other uses besides exchanging for fiat.  Still, there is a lot going on in the bitcoin economy besides fiat exchange, and if someone is bothered by the dreamers maybe they should quit hanging out in the forum dedicated to dreaming about the future.
2105  Economy / Speculation / Re: A Much More Fun Downtrend on: July 15, 2013, 10:02:13 PM

This is not surprising, given that USD withdrawals are not permitted at this time. Who would deposit or bid up MtGox USD in the current environment?

Withdrawals are permitted.  They are just delayed due to the outage and the resulting queue.  It may take a while for them to get caught up.
2106  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: 0.25 BTC Bounty - Show me a Mt Gox USD Withdrawal :) on: July 15, 2013, 09:46:10 PM

There is a big difference between the technical requirements of sending funds and the regulatory requirements of sending funds.  Yes the first part is easy, but it is not the hard part.


I agree.

Do you think the KYC measures are what's causing the delay? I'd have guessed that those are mostly front-end requirements (I know when I opened my account I had to submit passport and other verification docs).

Or could it be the record-keeping requirements? My opinion is that record-keeping is electronic and automatic, so probably not the problem.

What about AML reporting requirements? You could argue that it takes time to "establish and implement policies and procedures that can be reasonably expected to detect and cause the reporting of suspicious transactions". But on the flip side, this is a road that many have already traveled down, and a playbook for MSB's is readily available. Here's an example:

http://www.fincen.gov/financial_institutions/msb/materials/en/prevention_guide.html


I'm curious to know your opinion as to which parts of the regulatory requirements would cause such an extraordinary delay?

They just switched banks because their old bank was not comfortable with the levels of traffic.  Banks move slowly, especially when dealing with companies that have had regulatory actions against them (USG seized MtGox's Dwolla linked account).  The new bank will not allow them to ramp up their volume until they are absolutely sure all the t's are crossed and all the i's are dotted.
2107  Economy / Speculation / Re: Liquidity problem on: July 15, 2013, 08:53:52 PM

Bitcoin has uses besides trading Roll Eyes

Yes, I know. But this is more in theory than in practise.

So you admit your theory doesn't apply here in reality?

My theory?? Bitcoin business on every corner in the world is not my theory. I do not see any businesses around me. But I see a lot of dreamers who think that they can live just selling forever rising in price bitcoins.



I misunderstood you, so you misunderstood me.  I now see you are saying the uses are more theoretical than practical.  Now that you have made yourself clear all I can say is this: Maybe you spend too much time on the speculation subforum.
2108  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It on: July 15, 2013, 08:48:20 PM
Oh really?  Because anytime I have EVER heard of Bitcoin being presented to newcomers is "low transactions fees!", "virtually nothing compared to paypal", etc, etc..

When I was introduced to bitcoin, the pitch didn't even mention fees.  When I pitch bitcoin, I only talk about fees when asked.

That's you.  You think of the transaction fees go way up Bitcoin is going to still be as attractive?  You've lost your mind.  Transaction fees play a HUGE role.

Quote
Anyway, it seems you are claiming that Bitcoin has no value other than lower fees and will die without them.  Can you explain why decentralized control, potential privacy, and censorship resistance are not worth anything?


Okay now you're just talking nonsense.  I never said those other points are not worth anything.


You said it would die with higher fees.  In my opinion, those other features make bitcoin transactions worth MORE than fiat transactions.


Right, because the miners are more important than the people actually using the currency.   Roll Eyes

Which orifice did you pull that from?  I certainly didn't say it.

Quote
Come on, man.  You know as well as I do that that's not true.. nobody is going to want to use Bitcoin as a currency if they pay the same fees as banking, and ESPECIALLY if those fees are the same or more than Paypal. 

Except in the 30+ countries in the world that PayPal isn't allowed to service because of the overreach of the US Gov.
2109  Economy / Speculation / Re: Liquidity problem on: July 15, 2013, 08:45:31 PM

Bitcoin has uses besides trading Roll Eyes

Yes, I know. But this is more in theory than in practise.

So you admit your theory doesn't apply here in reality?
2110  Economy / Speculation / Re: Liquidity problem on: July 15, 2013, 08:36:37 PM

Its probably not going to reach 1T market cap in 3 years. However do you really think that every single person in the developed world invests aprx. $414 into XOM? Of course not. Don't even get me started on gold. Let me explain to you how things work. Rather than every single person investing $1k, a few rich guys invest 1000 times what the 'average' person would have to. Then, if you're lucky, they'll use use that 1000 times investment they just made as collateral to borrow money to invest another 1000 times more than what the 'average' person would have to. Then there's the whole idea that the market cap is partially 'missing' because it is being held by either wallets with either an unknown private key, or people that aren't spending/selling bitcoins at any given time.

It does not matter if few rich guys invest a lot or many poor guys invest little. It is true that many bitcoins were not in circulation since they were mined. But this does not change anything. If you bought btc last year and sold today at 10x price, this is just because guys who lost their opportunity last year give you their money. They do this because they think that next year some fools will give them 10x more. And this is not going to continue for long. The amount of fools who are ready to bring money into system saturates quickly.


Bitcoin has uses besides trading Roll Eyes
2111  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It on: July 15, 2013, 08:34:31 PM
Oh really?  Because anytime I have EVER heard of Bitcoin being presented to newcomers is "low transactions fees!", "virtually nothing compared to paypal", etc, etc..

When I was introduced to bitcoin, the pitch didn't even mention fees.  When I pitch bitcoin, I only talk about fees when asked.

That's you.  You think of the transaction fees go way up Bitcoin is going to still be as attractive?  You've lost your mind.  Transaction fees play a HUGE role.

Quote
Anyway, it seems you are claiming that Bitcoin has no value other than lower fees and will die without them.  Can you explain why decentralized control, potential privacy, and censorship resistance are not worth anything?


Okay now you're just talking nonsense.  I never said those other points are not worth anything.

You said it would die with higher fees.  In my opinion, those other features make bitcoin transactions worth MORE than fiat transactions.
2112  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: July 15, 2013, 08:33:06 PM
I just wish it would slip down to 90 for me to rebuy and never care about btc/usd again. I didn't care for longtime and did quite well, then I visited this crap of a thread  Grin

You and everyone else who sold when everyone was high on bear farts a week ago.
2113  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It on: July 15, 2013, 08:30:14 PM
Oh really?  Because anytime I have EVER heard of Bitcoin being presented to newcomers is "low transactions fees!", "virtually nothing compared to paypal", etc, etc..

When I was introduced to bitcoin, the pitch didn't even mention fees.  When I pitch bitcoin, I only talk about fees when asked.

Anyway, it seems you are claiming that Bitcoin has no value other than lower fees and will die without them.  Can you explain why decentralized control, potential privacy, and censorship resistance are not worth anything?
2114  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It on: July 15, 2013, 08:26:15 PM
So let's say someone decided to mine a huge portion of the network, such as Friedcat does.  Then they get paid by someone who wants to destroy Bitcoin to deliberately slow their latency down so that they are able to solve blocks with a very minimal amount of transactions. 

You get a few people doing this, and it would destroy Bitcoin.

Much more creative than a 51% attack..

Who benefits from this sort of attack? If they have a reputation and fortune to potentially lose, would they risk a potential lawsuit by bitcoin owners, miners, businesses etc? The only entities that I could see doing something like this would be a government entity (potentially the BRIC countries) that decides bitcoin is too much competition for traditional banking and government controlled fiat.

If I was a rich asshole heavily invested in the banking industry, I could benefit..
Hell, maybe Satoshi bullied me in school and stole my lunch money.  I'm sure there's many reasons.  Terrorism even comes to mind.. what if I'm a kingpin meth distributor and Silkroad is interfering with my profits?  
I could go and on, so don't ever feel bulletproof based on the reason that the intent isn't there, because it very well could be..

If you were a rich asshole heavily invested in the banking industry, and you perceived bitcoin as a threat (unlikely) you would become much wealthier embracing the new technology rather than trying to stifle it.  But there I go assuming wealthy people know anything about history.
2115  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It on: July 15, 2013, 08:23:28 PM
So let's say someone decided to mine a huge portion of the network, such as Friedcat does.  Then they get paid by someone who wants to destroy Bitcoin to deliberately slow their latency down so that they are able to solve blocks with a very minimal amount of transactions.  

You get a few people doing this, and it would destroy Bitcoin.

Much more creative than a 51% attack..

It would not destroy bitcoin.  It would drive up transaction fees until either not including them is too expensive or more honest miners come online.

driving up transaction fees could destroy Bitcoin as an alternate currency, seeing as how low transaction fees is supposed to be one of it's strongest points.

I don't see low transaction fees as among it's strongest features.  More important are decentralized control, potential privacy, and censorship resistance.  In fact these features provide the business case for paying more for transactions than with fiat based systems.  Lower fees are just a nicety of the current economics.
2116  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Pictures of your mining rigs! on: July 15, 2013, 08:21:16 PM
Quote
61 AM USB hashing away at roughly 23 GH/s Smiley

377 Mh/s each?

Are you OCing these babies? Temp control?

cheers,
kev

It was just variance.  Now that they have been running a while, the average is about 20.5 GH/s.

Is it even possible to OC these chicks? Maybe is someone can addres the bus of that thing trough USB and find out the clock speed/regulator...
23Gh and 20.5 is quite an high difference/


This is being discussed in another thread.
Well, sorry  Roll Eyes

TL;DR: only if you solder on a new oscillator, provide more power than standard USB, and keep good airflow on it
2117  Economy / Speculation / Re: Liquidity problem on: July 15, 2013, 08:18:04 PM
Right now, capitalization of bitcoins is $1B. If it continues to appreciate 10 times per year, its capitalization would reach $1T in 3 years. To reach this number, every single person in developed world would need to invest $1K into bitcoins.
false.

No investment is needed at all. Only the time preference for saving vs. dissaving has to change for the price to move. To give you an extreme example - if everybody stops selling bitcoin, the price is infinite. If nobody buys bitcoin, the price is zero. No funding needed. Please study price discovery mechanisms before you make conclusions like that.

Oh yes, money appear out from thin air. Don't you understand that if some miners or hoarders make X USD profit from selling bitcoins, this is just because other hoarders lose exactly the same amount?

Your statement is only true on the day bitcoin hits a value of 0.
2118  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It on: July 15, 2013, 08:16:06 PM
So let's say someone decided to mine a huge portion of the network, such as Friedcat does.  Then they get paid by someone who wants to destroy Bitcoin to deliberately slow their latency down so that they are able to solve blocks with a very minimal amount of transactions. 

You get a few people doing this, and it would destroy Bitcoin.

Much more creative than a 51% attack..

It would not destroy bitcoin.  It would drive up transaction fees until either not including them is too expensive or more honest miners come online.
2119  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: 0.25 BTC Bounty - Show me a Mt Gox USD Withdrawal :) on: July 15, 2013, 08:06:58 PM
My situation:

I believe this cannot be just an inept management/support service - something fishy is definitely going on.


Yes.

I had a few wire withdrawals pending from late June (maybe 20th or 21st). After getting the "cut-and-paste" replies, and reading this story: http://www.thebitcoinchannel.com/archives/16164 I asked for the wires to be cancelled.

Of course within an hour or so they responded and the cash was back in my account. Just waited for dips in price and did my best to buy BTC cheap while selling some from bitstamp when it would rise. Overall spread wasn't too bad but it took quite a while to accomplish.

My wire requests were WEEKS old, and I made the cancel request over the weekend. They were able to give me my money back without even checking with their bank. I think when they say "pending", it means they take the funds out of your account and do NOTHING.

Electronic wire transfer offerings are a dime a dozen these days (some US examples below) no bank wants to keep an army of wire-room specialists if they can help it. When MtGox says "backlog", they might be referring to all the wires they haven't been able to send due to liquidity problems.

https://www.wellsfargo.com/com/treasury-management/payables/electronic/wire-transfers
http://www.comerica.com/commercial/treasury-management/payables-solutions/Pages/wire-transfer.aspx


There is a big difference between the technical requirements of sending funds and the regulatory requirements of sending funds.  Yes the first part is easy, but it is not the hard part.
2120  Economy / Speculation / Re: Liquidity problem on: July 15, 2013, 07:55:33 PM
Of course, everybody contributes different amount. This does not change the fact that bitcoins can not continue to appreciate 10 times every year longer than couple of years more. 


Do you mean to tell me the potential upside is no more than 10,000% (10X for 2 years)?  Bummer.  Here I was thinking I could make some money.
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