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2101  Economy / Speculation / Re: Why has the price of Bitcoin become stable recently? on: June 05, 2013, 04:42:00 AM
The only thing that changed in the last month is that there is currently $9.000.000 per month of electricity wasted to keep bitcoin healthy as opposed to $6.000.000 per month 4 weeks ago

miners are going to start taking profits soon enough.. and some have been doing in the past few days as we've seen

goodluck to you if you hold bitcoins trying to make a profit

source: http://blockchain.info/stats

From your source:
Quote
Electricity consumption is estimated based on power consumption of 650 Watts per gigahash and electricity price of 15 cent per kilowatt hour. In reality some miners will be more or less efficient.

I just started up 3 GH today @ under 30 watts with $0.09/kwh electricity costs.

I'd say the estimate is way off.  It was decent when GPUs were king, but that has been several years now.
2102  Bitcoin / Group buys / Re: USA/Canada [Group Buy #2 @136/50] ASICMiner Erupter USB 2.03636 each @ 5 units on: June 04, 2013, 08:58:32 PM
ICA  0:                | 457.3M/394.7Mh/s | A:189 R: 6 HW: 2 U: 4.09/m
 ICA  1:                | 507.6M/400.2Mh/s | A:187 R:10 HW: 2 U: 4.04/m
 ICA  2:                | 128.7M/307.5Mh/s | A: 42 R: 3 HW:50 U: 0.91/m
 ICA  3:                | 322.7M/308.0Mh/s | A: 19 R: 2 HW:52 U: 0.41/m
 ICA  4:                | 486.5M/393.3Mh/s | A:177 R: 4 HW: 2 U: 3.83/m
 ICA  5:                | 490.5M/396.3Mh/s | A:212 R: 6 HW: 2 U: 4.59/m
 ICA  6:                | 519.4M/402.0Mh/s | A:186 R:12 HW: 1 U: 4.02/m
 ICA  7:                | 473.4M/402.4Mh/s | A:203 R:10 HW: 2 U: 4.39/m
 ICA  8:                | 490.4M/402.3Mh/s | A:200 R:10 HW: 1 U: 4.33/m
 ICA  9:                | 268.2M/401.3Mh/s | A:207 R:10 HW: 2 U: 4.48/m

ICA 2 and ICA 3 have way high HW errors and way low accepted shares... is there an RMA process?
that's just variance over time, however, feel free to send back. and pay return postage, I will send you different sticks.
you may want to give it a few hours there...
edit- on second glance, your HW errors are pretty high on those... where is it plugged in? are they in a dead airflow zone? post a pic plz..

It appears my computer was just smoking some crack or something....
No matter what order I plugged them in, logical positions 2 and 3 were always getting hardware errors.  So I unplug them all and try them one at a time... they all work.  I start with one and add one at a time.  I get to the last one, and it still works.  I've got no idea what my problem was before, but it seems to have worked itself out.  Thanks for the eagerness to resolve the issue, but it looks like I'm okay.
2103  Bitcoin / Group buys / Re: USA/Canada [Group Buy #2 @136/50] ASICMiner Erupter USB 2.03636 each @ 5 units on: June 04, 2013, 07:58:17 PM
 ICA  0:                | 457.3M/394.7Mh/s | A:189 R: 6 HW: 2 U: 4.09/m
 ICA  1:                | 507.6M/400.2Mh/s | A:187 R:10 HW: 2 U: 4.04/m
 ICA  2:                | 128.7M/307.5Mh/s | A: 42 R: 3 HW:50 U: 0.91/m
 ICA  3:                | 322.7M/308.0Mh/s | A: 19 R: 2 HW:52 U: 0.41/m
 ICA  4:                | 486.5M/393.3Mh/s | A:177 R: 4 HW: 2 U: 3.83/m
 ICA  5:                | 490.5M/396.3Mh/s | A:212 R: 6 HW: 2 U: 4.59/m
 ICA  6:                | 519.4M/402.0Mh/s | A:186 R:12 HW: 1 U: 4.02/m
 ICA  7:                | 473.4M/402.4Mh/s | A:203 R:10 HW: 2 U: 4.39/m
 ICA  8:                | 490.4M/402.3Mh/s | A:200 R:10 HW: 1 U: 4.33/m
 ICA  9:                | 268.2M/401.3Mh/s | A:207 R:10 HW: 2 U: 4.48/m

ICA 2 and ICA 3 have way high HW errors and way low accepted shares... is there an RMA process?
2104  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 04, 2013, 04:10:57 PM
Quote
eBay Invoice Notification for Friday, May 31, 2013

Amount Due:                            C$16.46

wtf is this eBay Invoice Notification? i didn't buy no eBay Invoice Notification  Huh  Huh  Huh


this is why i prefer bitcoin.....

It is a phishing attempt.  Bitcoin services have also been impersonated like this.

no these are some real fees that i have to pay, i set my paypal to automatically pay these...

first you get hit with ebay fees for selling stuff on their site
then you get chargebacks.
then you get paypal fees for other reasons.
then you get your paypal account hacked and your fund are stuck in limbo for ever   Cheesy


but seriously, ebay & paypal takes a significant fee... doesn't look like much a few $ here and there, but it all add up and the total cost of doing business with ebay is pretty high...

Bummer
2105  Bitcoin / Group buys / Re: USA/Canada [Group Buy #2 @136/50] ASICMiner Erupter USB 2.03636 each @ 5 units on: June 04, 2013, 03:38:58 PM
You've got me running to the door every time the neighbor's dog barks.
2106  Economy / Economics / Re: Peter Schiff on Bitcoin on: June 04, 2013, 03:38:22 PM
I got a question to counter this.

What is the intrinsic value of fiat money? It is made of paper, some coins of different metals, but most of it is digital.

The M16.
2107  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 04, 2013, 02:38:37 PM
Quote
eBay Invoice Notification for Friday, May 31, 2013

Amount Due:                            C$16.46

wtf is this eBay Invoice Notification? i didn't buy no eBay Invoice Notification  Huh  Huh  Huh


this is why i prefer bitcoin.....

It is a phishing attempt.  Bitcoin services have also been impersonated like this.
2108  Economy / Economics / Re: Healthy economic growth on: June 04, 2013, 02:36:13 PM
"One of the key drivers to healthy growth in an economy is liquidity."

How much truth does this statement carry? I see it quoted in this forum with references to economic texts. It makes me think about the function of traders in the greater economy. They will be driving a majority of the liquidity in the markets, taking that into account, would it be considered healthy growth?

When thinking into more depth, an online shop, say for example bitcoinstore (which I'm a big fan of) might trade $1mill in two months. This would involve a lot of people within the economy spending their coins in exchange for products. The benefits are easily seen and the growth in the economy easily visible.

On the other hand, a single trader with $5k in a margin account could rack up $1mill of traded volume within two weeks.

The original statement seems to suggest that the trader would benefit the economy more than the online shop.

From an economics perspective, what is healthy growth?

"One of the key drivers to healthy growth in an economy is liquidity."

Liquidity is absolutely necessary to have healthy growth.  But there is only a certain amount of liquidity that the market needs and when a market becomes too crowded some participants get washed out.  It is usually the participants with the most exposure, i.e. the guy with 1 million in trade volume in two weeks.
2109  Economy / Economics / Re: Peter Schiff on Bitcoin on: June 04, 2013, 02:24:10 PM
jag2k2 you could take it to an assay office or something and have it evaluated if you're unsure, but this is why I acknowledge Bitcoin, even though it's really been designed for one thing it does what it's designed for extremely well without help.

Right.  Bitcoin was designed to be money.  Gold and silver was not.
2110  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer - MtGoxUSD wall movement tracker - Hardcore on: June 04, 2013, 12:58:29 PM
Let me try again, I'm quite noobish at this. Tongue



Trendlines tend to be broken on the fourth touch.
2111  Economy / Economics / Re: Peter Schiff on Bitcoin on: June 04, 2013, 08:48:29 AM
Speaking as someone who is a learning JEWELLER notme I can tell you these guys are right Cheesy metals have all sorts of properties like heating points and conductivity, you'll find gold in small amounts on many of the electronics you use and silver is used in dentistry and other places too because of how soft but strong the metal is. Bitcoin has been designed very well and I can't think of much better features to add for it but it only does one thing, if you tried to use it for anything else, it just wouldn't work. You couldn't use Bitcoins for industry and you couldn't even really use them for recreation, they've been specifically designed for the task of being a currency.

Bitcoins do the job of being a currency extremely well but that's the only thing they can do, I think if Bitcoin were introduced in an age where everyone was using Gold/Silver for currency like the old days then it would mostly be ignored save for the convenience of doing international transactions.

Yes, there are consumptive uses, particularly for silver.  However, they are a small part.

See the cart here: http://www.gold.org/investment/statistics/demand_and_supply_statistics/
If you exclude investments and jewelry (which I consider nonconsumptive) only 11% of gold demand is for consumption.
2112  Economy / Economics / Re: My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost. on: June 04, 2013, 08:41:33 AM
What would you do?

I certainly wouldn't ask a friend to abuse a position of power in order to put me at the front of the line.  I would accept my fate.

If this is sincere (which I doubt) hats off for sticking with your principles. As I don't have this specific principle I would help myself first.

I ran a pirateat40 passthrough.  When pirate defaulted, I paid back every investor I had from my own pocket the day he closed withdrawals.  I ate the loss.

Do you still doubt my sincerity?

If this concerned a normal (non-insured) passthrough you certainly went the extra mile. That was way more than you were morally obligated to do.

This makes me wish I had you as a pass through operator, would have saved me a lot of money Smiley

25% insurance, but I made my investors whole.

Sometimes it is better to do what is best for those who have put trust in you than to do what is strictly best for yourself.
2113  Economy / Economics / Re: Interest rates in a deflationary currency on: June 04, 2013, 04:49:17 AM
Question on demurrage:
What do you do with those lost coins? If they are annihilated than it just changes amount of money without affecting value. If it is distributed to everyone then nothing changes. I guess it is being distributed to miners so it is effectively exactly same as just giving miners new money. Miners simply increase their share of currency vs everybody else. Old school inflation have one big advantage of being compatible with human psychology. No one wants to see his account shrinking in real-time.

But that is exactly what is happening with old school inflation.... but most people are unaware.  At least with demurrage, it is an honest shrinking of your purchasing power rather than a sneaky one.
Demurrage does have that going for it, But it's still a drain on purchasing power, and a currency with demurrage will never survive next to one that doesn't in a competitive market.

I agree.  I'm no fan of demurrage.  I just see it as slightly more honest than willful inflation.
2114  Economy / Economics / Re: Japan. The Yen. The Hyperinflation. on: June 04, 2013, 04:26:39 AM
Well, that does not really satisfy my Zimbabwean envy.
But I will take 100% in 3 years if I can get it.

You won't get it (at least not this decade).... start making plans for this reality. (although a small hedge like pms and/or bitcoin never hurts)
2115  Economy / Economics / Re: Interest rates in a deflationary currency on: June 04, 2013, 04:25:44 AM
Question on demurrage:
What do you do with those lost coins? If they are annihilated than it just changes amount of money without affecting value. If it is distributed to everyone then nothing changes. I guess it is being distributed to miners so it is effectively exactly same as just giving miners new money. Miners simply increase their share of currency vs everybody else. Old school inflation have one big advantage of being compatible with human psychology. No one wants to see his account shrinking in real-time.

But that is exactly what is happening with old school inflation.... but most people are unaware.  At least with demurrage, it is an honest shrinking of your purchasing power rather than a sneaky one.
2116  Economy / Economics / Re: My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost. on: June 04, 2013, 04:20:58 AM
What would you do?

I certainly wouldn't ask a friend to abuse a position of power in order to put me at the front of the line.  I would accept my fate.

If this is sincere (which I doubt) hats off for sticking with your principles. As I don't have this specific principle I would help myself first.

I ran a pirateat40 passthrough.  When pirate defaulted, I paid back every investor I had from my own pocket the day he closed withdrawals.  I ate the loss.

Do you still doubt my sincerity?
2117  Economy / Economics / Re: Peter Schiff on Bitcoin on: June 04, 2013, 04:18:16 AM
Bitcoins have value, but it is a USE value determined by market forces; he is correct in asserting that the value of bitcoin is NOT intrinsic since the digital substance of the blockchains has no other use than as a medium of exchange and store of value. Were bitcoin to cease being used as money it would have no INTRINSIC value outside of this function, and in this respect it differs from gold and silver which do have substantial intrinsic value.


The vast majority of the valuations of gold and silver is from their usefulness as a store of value (this is the only monetary aspect they do well).  Consumptive uses are a very small percentage of their value.  However, talking about how the value of something changes if it magically losses it's moneyness seems kind of pointless.  By what mechanism would Bitcoin suddenly no longer be money?
2118  Economy / Speculation / Re: What is the long term value of Bitcoin ? on: June 04, 2013, 04:07:24 AM
It's funny how all these threads are fantasies about getting RID of bitcoin and converting to lots of fiat.

It's funny how I don't see that sentiment from any of the posts in this thread.  All I see are estimates of the equivalent fiat value.  Just because we use fiat as a yardstick doesn't mean we're going to dump bitcoin.
2119  Economy / Speculation / Re: The "goal" for today is $100 on: June 03, 2013, 05:50:23 PM

The time to buy in is now.
Bitcoin has been cheap for years. Exactly how much longer do people want to see it go down so they can buy "cheap coins"?
Another year? 5?
People need to get over it.


Why are you in such a rush?

Give the newly exposed time to assimilate into the community.  There will come a time where we will once again drive it like we stole it, but the market still has a lot of disagreement to work out.

In a rush? Huh? It took years to get to this level.


And it will take time to get to the next level.

Sure. Lets get there by hoping it goes up. Not down.

Personally, I hope it goes sidewaysish for a while.  I don't get excited by 10% swings in either direction, but I do think it is still too early to go through another hype cycle again.
2120  Economy / Speculation / Re: The "goal" for today is $100 on: June 03, 2013, 05:34:01 PM

The time to buy in is now.
Bitcoin has been cheap for years. Exactly how much longer do people want to see it go down so they can buy "cheap coins"?
Another year? 5?
People need to get over it.


Why are you in such a rush?

Give the newly exposed time to assimilate into the community.  There will come a time where we will once again drive it like we stole it, but the market still has a lot of disagreement to work out.

In a rush? Huh? It took years to get to this level.


And it will take time to get to the next level.
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