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741  Economy / Speculation / Re: Taking a loan to buy bitcoin on: November 28, 2013, 05:50:16 AM
I'm thinking of getting a loan to buy more bitcoin, as I'm guessing we'll reach $10K in a few months it can be a good deal to lend at a bank against 5% anual rate

Did anyone do this before? Would like some experience advice

There have been many people in here asking about the same thing and I think it's a recipe for disaster and would not recommend it. Invest what you can afford to lose, if you become too greedy it could very well come back and bite you in the ass (and karma says it will). You will live in regret for the rest of your life. Don't do it, if bitcoin succeeds a few bitcoins will be enough to buy a house or two.

Let's say someone took a loan of $100k in september and put it into Bitcoin, he would have made about $900k minus interest in just less than 2 months. There's no going wrong here.

If I take a loan now of $100k and put it into Bitcoin, it might be worth 10x in just a few months. Worst case scenario it will bubble to $9k and back to $1k, then I would have only lost the interest on the loan. It's a winner bet to become a millionaire from just one simple move at the moment, with no losing edge in sight.

Ok lets say you do this. How do you cash out 900k? Who is going to have enough money to buy a 900K worth of bitcoins? and if someone buys you at 900K, how are you going to cash out? the bank is going to be tripping balls about all that money, what are you going to say? Also, think about exchange sites being seized and you lossing the money (Example : Bitcoin-24). And if you split it in groups of 10k, it will take you ages to cash out the entire thing and during that time, if bitcoin is still as insanely volatile, the price would from fluctuate a bit to crash.

I still admire your balls (no homo). I want to jump off a bridge by missing on the bitcoin boat and then jump again at missing on the LTC board (it was 7.4 dollars when I learned about it, but I couldn't find a fucking place to buy LTC in europe that didn't need for you to present bill proof evidence, and I cant do that because im a poor NEET failure that lives with its parents).
fuck my life

Whilst I think wopwop is insane for considering it, I do still need to point out that cashing 900k at the moment isn't particularly hard - you see that spike down under 1000 on the hourly chart, check the volume during that hour... 15,000 BTC changed hands. Thats approx $15m. Selling $900k isn't as hard as you might think.

Now getting that $900k out of an exchange and into a bank account? I'll admit I am very naive to how one goes about doing that. A regular SEPA transfer into your current account (or a 'wire into your checking account' in US terms I think?) well that is gonna raise some eyebrows at my bank I agree.



He only needs to cash out $100k plus interest Wink.
742  Economy / Speculation / Re: Next Big Boom - December 3/4th-ish on: November 28, 2013, 05:30:33 AM
I don't think that coinbase drives the price except if they are using other exchanges to buy and then sell bitcoins to their customers Tongue

Coinbase has to buy the coins from someone.

Yeah but i thought from dark pools or something not by placing bids on Gox  Roll Eyes

Changes in demand always effects price.  Those are potentially supply taken off of Gox, or even purchased on Gox by traders who sell to coinbase.

You can't just pull btc out of your ass.
743  Economy / Speculation / Re: $1,300 to 10,000 very rapidly on: November 28, 2013, 05:24:38 AM
$1,300 -> $10,000 is a ~670% increase and really would not be such an insane jump for a four month period.

I'm more interested in whether or not there will be a price correction so steep that money stops coming in for a while, like in 2011/April of this year.

Since history tends to repeat itself, I think you know what I expect.

Also from 1,000,000 to 2,000,000 it's a 100% increase but to get there price would have to go like what, about $5 per minute non-stop for 4 months.

But $5 is 0.0005% of $1,000,000 so by the time we hit that price the spread for a small trader on Gox will be 2*0.6% or $12,000.
744  Economy / Speculation / Re: Where do you see Bitcoin in 5 years? on: November 28, 2013, 05:16:56 AM
I don't think there will be Bitcoins in 5 years. The protocol cannot handle enough transactions/sec without centralization. Bitcoin will be superseded by another coin.

enlightenment is the key!

Today the Bitcoin network is restricted to a sustained rate of 7 tps by some artificial limits. These were put in place to stop people from ballooning the size of the block chain before the network and community was ready for it. Once those limits are lifted, the maximum transaction rate will go up significantly.

If you remove these limits you may go around 40 tx/sec, but never to 10000 tx/sec visa scale, unless you centralize the network on few big nodes, and the rest have only a portion of the blockchain.

The UTXO set is still just a few hundred MB.  It is the only data necessary to verify a transaction.
745  Economy / Speculation / Re: We need to wake up fast before china will eat all the BTC.. on: November 28, 2013, 05:15:27 AM
Does the fiat leak website take into account when someone sells bitcoin for fiat? otherwise its pretty useless...

Every trade has a buyer and a seller.

This is true, but consider this...If someone is buying a bitcoin from a seller who is selling for a loss (fiat loss), the flow is reversed (fiat flowing out of bitcoin rather than into it), and I'm not sure that website takes that into account?

That sounds like nonsense.  Bitcoin is not a fiat reservoir.  Money flows into exchanges to buy, and then flows out to the seller.  Bitcoins transfer ownership, fiat transfers ownership.  Nothing was created or destroyed.

And no, that site doesn't consider individual traders' profits and losses.  This information is not public.
746  Economy / Speculation / Re: Next Big Boom - December 3/4th-ish on: November 28, 2013, 05:06:26 AM
I don't think that coinbase drives the price except if they are using other exchanges to buy and then sell bitcoins to their customers Tongue

Coinbase has to buy the coins from someone.
747  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 28, 2013, 05:05:19 AM
This is an arena where BTC has the potential to just eat the big banks' lunch for real.

Banks again.  I just read the wiki on M-Pesa and the references to banks were everywhere.  So, I suppose, what btc needs is a clearinghouse.

Noted that IBM was/is involved in the 'Development and second line support' details of M-Pesa.  Shouldn't be too long before we hear something from that powerhouse inre bitcoin.

/Frank

Bitcoin mining is the clearing house for transactions.
748  Economy / Speculation / Re: Next Big Boom - December 3/4th-ish on: November 28, 2013, 04:58:36 AM
What about bitstamp? or btce? why only coinbase counts?

Because OP refers to the US senate hearings, and most US people that want to buy based on regulatory legitimacy aren't going to deal with an exchange in direct violation of US regulations.
749  Economy / Speculation / Re: Are all your friends telling you to cash out, too? on: November 28, 2013, 04:46:01 AM
I keep telling mine not to cash out the casascius coins I gave them years ago... So far they've listened, if only because I won't help them do it, and I keep telling them that the coins are worth more than double intact.

Too bad someone at DEFCon fucked that up.  Casascius coins can be opened without destroying the hologram, so their resale value has plunged.

Most of them have the highly collectible series 1 coins, I still see selling for pretty high.

Link tho? I haven't heard about this.

Here's the first link from a Google search for "casascius defcon": http://www.coindesk.com/defcon-hackers-crack-physical-bitcoin-casascius-coins/

It looks like there are lots of other sources you could explore too if you want.
750  Economy / Speculation / Re: Possible bitcoin crash catalyst? The rise of altcoins on: November 28, 2013, 04:40:47 AM
Litecoin doesn't yet have hedge funds buying into it, as far as I know. Much of the current growth of Bitcoin is being caused by institutional buyers and funds such as the Bitcoin Investment Trust on Second Market. If LTC can attract those kind of investors, then it could get a lot closer to parity with BTC. Until then, I suspect LTC is simply in a bubble. BTC's price increase can be sustained by continued institutional buying, whereas LTC doesn't have that type of buying to sustain its current rally.

+1

In addition, LTC are being introduced at 4 times the rate of BTC.
751  Economy / Speculation / Re: You will not hold tight if.... on: November 28, 2013, 04:32:04 AM
Remember, when selling BTC and withdrawing from exchange, you definitively have to pay income tax, so no $1000 per coin yet at all  Cheesy

Long term capital gains (US) can be at 0% for a lot of people.

Wait, how do I get 0% capital gains tax?
752  Economy / Speculation / Re: it's going to break $1000 on bitstamp by end of tonight on: November 28, 2013, 03:11:02 AM
Isn't it already past $1000 on bitstamp??

No.
753  Economy / Speculation / Re: Are all your friends telling you to cash out, too? on: November 28, 2013, 03:10:05 AM
I keep telling mine not to cash out the casascius coins I gave them years ago... So far they've listened, if only because I won't help them do it, and I keep telling them that the coins are worth more than double intact.

Too bad someone at DEFCon fucked that up.  Casascius coins can be opened without destroying the hologram, so their resale value has plunged.
754  Economy / Speculation / Re: BTCJAM - Beware the MtGox Link on: November 28, 2013, 02:48:57 AM
So I'm a recovering cancer patient seeking a job in web design. I'm trying to make some money with bitcoin but I made a HUGE mistake...
On BTCJam, the P2P BTC loaning site, I lent out all of my savings about 0.5 BTC. (I don't have alot of money to spare) but that's now worth 500$, but I'm only getting 350...because the price is linked to USD. Sad thing is that I can't cash out until the tenth  of December maybe...by then BTC might be worth 2000$...

Do you think BTC will correct after it hits 1000$? Or will it take off and I'm just screwed out of my funds I was too careless with...


I'm not begging, but if you do want to help out with a small donation to my pocket to help me, then god bless.
1BUcLeZ9zwncbBReg8DfcgXcSotvimPBdK

"Date Registered:   November 11, 2013, 09:07:13 AM"


Lulz@scam attempt.
How the fuck am I scamming someone? Really?
People like you piss me off. I'm not begging, I'm not scamming, Just putting my address out there like any other person. To have the audacity to say that to someone like me who had to go through the pain of being diagnosed and put through treatment, I survive in massive amounts of debt and you have the audacity to call me a scammer? Really? Fuck you.

I've been in bitcoin since it was 50$, I just never got into forums much, I decided it was finally a good idea to make an account. Dick.

You may not be directly begging, but you sure are hinting strongly that you want donations.  Maybe if you were just straight about it you would have better luck.  I believe it is this contradiction that makes it seem like a scam.

If your post adds anything besides complaining about your bad decisions, your admittedly unfortunate medical situation, and "not begging" but providing a donation address, then please point it out since I don't see it.  If there is something else there that I am missing, maybe we will have something to discuss.

Cancer sucks.  I've lost multiple friends and family to it.  I also know many people who have beat it.  Quit bitching and be thankful for every day you have.  If you can't escape the anger/negativity and focus on the positive, the cancer will win.  I seriously wish you the best.  You will have to struggle in ways most people will never understand, but with faith and courage you can beat this.
755  Economy / Speculation / Re: BTCJAM - Beware the MtGox Link on: November 28, 2013, 02:23:08 AM
You knew what you were agreeing to.  Unfortunately, it turns out it was a bad idea.

Trading your btc for a usd promise is like shorting, but worse due to the possibility of borrower default.  Would you short btc?
756  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 28, 2013, 02:14:17 AM
No problem, in North America at least, there has come a tradition of sales on this day and it is one of the busiest shopping days of the year in preparation for the Abrahamic consumption orgy of Christmas
Do you think the black-friday event could mainstream Bitcoin, so that no crash occurs?
Edit: I read about this idea somewhere.

No.  For one, because "the mainsteam" will be shopping in stores.  And for two, because spending bitcoins usually results in a market sell.
757  Economy / Speculation / Re: We need to wake up fast before china will eat all the BTC.. on: November 28, 2013, 01:50:50 AM
Does the fiat leak website take into account when someone sells bitcoin for fiat? otherwise its pretty useless...

Every trade has a buyer and a seller.
758  Economy / Speculation / Re: We need to wake up fast before china will eat all the BTC.. on: November 28, 2013, 01:40:47 AM
guys we need to start waking up.. or china will dominate btc at this buying rate..

7500+ BTC bought with Yuan, 561 BTC bought in USD - all in 01:54 hours and rising.. http://fiatleak.com/
somthing isn't right

You do realize they buy those coins form other chinese right? =))))))

Are you sure this is not a net surplus by country?

I don't know if he is sure, but I am.  The site merely shows exchange volume for each currency, and only for some exchanges.  There is no data source for "net surplus by country".
759  Economy / Speculation / Re: Now that we reached the moon, at what amount do we reach mars? on: November 27, 2013, 11:00:56 PM
And why Mars?
Nobody want's to go to Venus?

You mean $10k Venus, after this hitting Sun?
No, thank you

Exactly.... Venus is too hot, plus its atmosphere is filled with acidic gasses.
760  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: November 27, 2013, 07:25:02 AM
...
Disclaimer: I mainly like them because of the mad profitz I've experienced by buying and holding a select few. Color me greedy! What can I say, they are speculative instruments and I speculated correctly.


A rising tide floats all boats...



And when the tide goes back out, we get to see who is swimming naked Wink
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