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741  Economy / Speculation / Re: Buying now or waiting a bit(coin)? on: November 28, 2013, 07:40:45 PM
From my experience, ask yourself this: how much free time do you have and how much of that time are you willing to spend price checking and waiting for the "right" time to buy in?

After spending lots of time waiting I decided buy in a while ago and I can tell you it is a wonderful feeling to not have to keep checking for the right time to buy. Whether it goes up or down, you are only investing what you can afford to lose (right?) so you can simply sit back and enjoy the ride.

I think your approach is correct. Honestly, I stay in a cash position and buy in when I feel like trading - and then get out as quickly as possible. If there is a strong price drop, I will buy and hold. It's all good… having fun doing it.

So you're not going to hold until you buy the top?
742  Economy / Speculation / Re: Are all your friends telling you to cash out, too? on: November 28, 2013, 06:45:21 PM
Isn't it weird that noone has any friends that are into bitcoins.   Roll Eyes

All of my close friends are into it.  In fact, two of them have more than me now and one of those recently cashed out a small percent and quit his job.  That small cash out gave him enough fiat for the next two years.
743  Economy / Speculation / Re: 75% Correction Overdue on: November 28, 2013, 06:42:39 PM
How did you calculate 75%?

Divide 3 by 4.
744  Economy / Speculation / Re: Buying now or waiting a bit(coin)? on: November 28, 2013, 06:17:33 PM
Dollar cost average

Bitcoin is wild, but you can always get a good price if you spread out your buys over a couple months.
745  Economy / Speculation / Re: Are all your friends telling you to cash out, too? on: November 28, 2013, 06:04:33 PM
After many years of suffering I think I understand people finally, there are just a lot of assholes and bitches, especially among 'family', replace them with nice people and your life greatly improves!  Cool

+1

Life is too short for assholes and bitches.
746  Economy / Speculation / Re: Why is the BTC/LTC price changing so much on: November 28, 2013, 04:27:45 PM
Some people buying based on a weird belief that litecoin is cheap and bitcoin is expensive... I wonder what will happen when litecoin becomes expensive as well  Shocked

Some of us will get rich.   Grin

Obviously but i 'm asking if there is a 3rd coin that people will move to after litecoin.

NMC, XPM, NVC, TRC, PPC, ...and 100 others.

Take your pick.

I 'm asking if there is an obvious pick like litecoin was. No alt coin seems to stand out at the moment.

If LTC was obvious, why don't you have more?

More than what? More than i can afford? Your question doesn't even make sense  Roll Eyes

So you went all in before the bubble?  Good job.  Why are you asking us about what to buy next?  It seems like you know what you are doing.
747  Economy / Speculation / Re: Another Bubble about to Burst on: November 28, 2013, 04:24:59 PM
The deep correction when we first hit $900 makes me feel this has a way to go yet. During previous run-ups, any correction has ended up looking fairly insignificant once the true magnitude of the exponential curve is revealed.

However, as with every run up before, I just can't see how we can possibly go much higher!!!? Which is how I felt at $10 on the way to $30, and then at $60 on the way to $266...

I'm not even sure what is real anymore.

Dit you take the blue or red pill ?

I think the red, it was dark though... I keep seeing lots of green numbers fly past on clark moody, and I can't find a single spoon anywhere in the house!

LOL
748  Economy / Speculation / Re: We need to wake up fast before china will eat all the BTC.. on: November 28, 2013, 06:52:35 AM
The Chinese are well known as savers. IMO, BTC will have an ultimate valuation of atleast 1 million USD/BTC. And the Chinese are more likely to hoard the coins and reach that goal. The West is more likely to be oblivious of BTC's true end valuation and will most likely sell the coins before they even reach their true potential. What this means is that in the end they will end up with more millionaires than us. Where do you think they will invest that money? In their home country of course. This will cause a huge economic shift in power that has enormous geopolitical implications.

Yep.  They keep doing the right thing and it will pay off in the end.  The west continues to spend beyond its means and will have to pay the piper eventually.
749  Economy / Speculation / Re: Why is the BTC/LTC price changing so much on: November 28, 2013, 06:44:11 AM
Some people buying based on a weird belief that litecoin is cheap and bitcoin is expensive... I wonder what will happen when litecoin becomes expensive as well  Shocked

Some of us will get rich.   Grin

Obviously but i 'm asking if there is a 3rd coin that people will move to after litecoin.

NMC, XPM, NVC, TRC, PPC, ...and 100 others.

Take your pick.

I 'm asking if there is an obvious pick like litecoin was. No alt coin seems to stand out at the moment.

If LTC was obvious, why don't you have more?
750  Economy / Speculation / Re: Would you put all your savings money into BTC? on: November 28, 2013, 06:39:09 AM
The thread is about putting all your savings in BTC. You are using your savings to buy a house not to repair the refrigator  Tongue

if you have savings in the 150000 range, your bank consultant should be able to give you some qualified information about what percentage to use for high-risk investments. I am talking about the average joe with a salary around 2000 after taxes and maybe up to 5000 savings.


@notme: good for you. since i have not underwent the 3 years learning to become a car mechanic and the further years to become approved master i wouln't touch anything safety related at my car (I guess i would have to show it and get the repairs accepted by an approved mechanic, otherwise all insurances would reject any related damage caused), but i admit it would be beneficial to cut the prices

It must suck relying on strangers to look out for your safety.  I know I will take it seriously, but will some grease monkey at Jiffy Lube?

I've had professionally trained mechanics make mistakes on my vehicle that could have killed me.  Luckily, the wheel fell off the car in a parking lot and not at 70mph.
751  Economy / Speculation / Re: Would you put all your savings money into BTC? on: November 28, 2013, 06:30:53 AM
This is insane. I wouldn't recommend putting any money into Bitcoin that could be needed within the next 12 month. The price is rising, yes. But it could also drop to zero, so you have to be able to write the money off the moment you invest.

Even if you have just some small money, I would recommend to keep at least 30-50% in fiat at your bank. What happens if your car brakes need to be renewed? If your oven fails or your refrigerator? Ah, the damn yearly car insurance is due all out of a sudden. And there, damn, I completely forgot about my legal protection insurance, has it always been charged in March? There can always arise more or less "unforseen" problems where you need to access your savings.

With this background you will definetly panic if the exchange value drops below a certain level, and you will panic-sell at a way too low point - giving you a nice loss in BTC and even in FIAT if the timing is bad.

Keep a buffer in FIAT in case something happens, keep some FIAT as savings for the things you will need in the next timespan. Better cut some of your unnecessary expenses and take this money to gamble with BTC. And always keep in mind that BTC is still a virtual toything without guarantee to success.

I agree that people should be prepared for unplanned expenses, but your examples are terrible.  They mostly involve forgetting something that happens on a regular basis.  Besides, even if I forget about my brakes until they chew through the rotor, I can get new rotors and pads for both sides for less than $100.  If i'm reasonable and replace my brakes when they should be replaces, the pads alone are like $20.

But for the real emergencies, you either need some fiat or to just have so many BTC that it dropping to $100 still leaves you with enough for any reasonable contingency. Wink

well, renewal of my brakes was around 450€ (and you renew all 4 of them). and yes, annual payments are usually underestimated. you sometimes just now roughly the time - something around spring. and then one morning you look at your bank account and see your insurence just took 600€ for your car and 500€ for legal protection - leaving you in the red for the rest of the month.

don't know about your "real emergencies". if your car is completely gone you will need a new one, yes. but it may be ok to get a loan in this case to buy it. and if your house burns down you're pretty pissed anyway, no way to prevent drastic losses here.

If you pay someone to do your brakes you are an idiot or you make a shitload of money and can afford to throw some away.

Since I am not a qualified car mecanich and lack the suppliers of approved car parts, the proper tools like lifting platform etc., lacking the knowledge about car repairing and most importantly: working full time so i don't have the time to spend the next few days repairing my car.... yes, I have to pay an approved car repair shop as 90% of the population have to.

Roll Eyes. Fucking brakes, how do they work?

I can do all four corners in under an hour.  I have no formal training, but that shit is dead simple if you understand basic physics.  There are 5 auto parts stores within 10 minutes of my house.

At least in my area, when it comes to brakes, your 90% figure is about 60% too high, but we are hillfolk, so we are a bit more used to self sufficiency than most flatlanders.
752  Economy / Speculation / Re: Would you put all your savings money into BTC? on: November 28, 2013, 06:17:11 AM
BTC is on the rise, sure. But surely you need to have fiat to pay for your everyday needs right?

Like you need fiat for hospitals, fiat for insurance, fiat for rent, fiat for utilities.....
If you are a teenager who doesn't pay for any of the above, then yes, all in for BTC!
If not, why would you put all your savings money into BTC?

Because you don't pay everyday expenses with savings.  You pay them with income unless you are super wealthy and retired.
753  Economy / Speculation / Re: Would you put all your savings money into BTC? on: November 28, 2013, 06:15:48 AM
This is insane. I wouldn't recommend putting any money into Bitcoin that could be needed within the next 12 month. The price is rising, yes. But it could also drop to zero, so you have to be able to write the money off the moment you invest.

Even if you have just some small money, I would recommend to keep at least 30-50% in fiat at your bank. What happens if your car brakes need to be renewed? If your oven fails or your refrigerator? Ah, the damn yearly car insurance is due all out of a sudden. And there, damn, I completely forgot about my legal protection insurance, has it always been charged in March? There can always arise more or less "unforseen" problems where you need to access your savings.

With this background you will definetly panic if the exchange value drops below a certain level, and you will panic-sell at a way too low point - giving you a nice loss in BTC and even in FIAT if the timing is bad.

Keep a buffer in FIAT in case something happens, keep some FIAT as savings for the things you will need in the next timespan. Better cut some of your unnecessary expenses and take this money to gamble with BTC. And always keep in mind that BTC is still a virtual toything without guarantee to success.

I agree that people should be prepared for unplanned expenses, but your examples are terrible.  They mostly involve forgetting something that happens on a regular basis.  Besides, even if I forget about my brakes until they chew through the rotor, I can get new rotors and pads for both sides for less than $100.  If i'm reasonable and replace my brakes when they should be replaces, the pads alone are like $20.

But for the real emergencies, you either need some fiat or to just have so many BTC that it dropping to $100 still leaves you with enough for any reasonable contingency. Wink

well, renewal of my brakes was around 450€ (and you renew all 4 of them). and yes, annual payments are usually underestimated. you sometimes just now roughly the time - something around spring. and then one morning you look at your bank account and see your insurence just took 600€ for your car and 500€ for legal protection - leaving you in the red for the rest of the month.

don't know about your "real emergencies". if your car is completely gone you will need a new one, yes. but it may be ok to get a loan in this case to buy it. and if your house burns down you're pretty pissed anyway, no way to prevent drastic losses here.

If you pay someone to do your brakes you are an idiot or you make a shitload of money and can afford to throw some away.
754  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: November 28, 2013, 06:12:33 AM
well, a hard fork is a change in protocol that splits it into two protocols. 0.7 guys wont accept the blocks of 0.8 guys, creating two different blockchains. not very encouraging, and in my opinion not related to price.

Exactly, which is why this guy's posts seem to make no sense. I think he was hit by the troll box.

Quote
Hard-fork possible motives:

+ An incorrect (=not identical to the rest of the network) implementation forks off. In this case it will always certainly be clear who is "at fault". For example, in the 0.7 vs 0.8 fork, there was a bug in the 0.7 (and older) clients that limited them in an unknown way, but 0.8 was at fault for not correctly mimicking the bug. As keeping such a weird and inconsistent limitation would hold the network back, and be risky in itself, the bug-free behavior will become allowed after may 15. However, if old full clients remain on the network after that date, they will end up on a fork, and this fork will not resolve.

+ Two implementations arise that knowingly implement different rules, perhaps because of ideological disagreement about what the rules should be. If both are economically significant and have significant mining behind them (which in neither case necessarily means a near-majority), this is pretty much a disaster. The incentive for consensus is huge, as disagreement effectively means granting every old coin hold to spend it once on each side.

What is it that you guys don't understand?

It may be accidental (due to much sudden hashing power on alts) or intentional (to cause price crashes). Who knows..??


If there was a hard fork it wouldn't be hard to figure out what was going on.  Are you sure there isn't just a surge of hashpower causing more orphans?  Can you provide any sources that describe what you think is happening?
755  Economy / Speculation / Re: You will not hold tight if.... on: November 28, 2013, 06:02:07 AM
Wait, how do I get 0% capital gains tax?
Make less than $36k/year, and hold the bitcoins for at least a year before selling. Since 2008 there have been zero taxes on capital gains in the two lowest income tax brackets.

Fuck.  I've been overpaying the IRS.
756  Economy / Speculation / Re: Next Big Boom - December 3/4th-ish on: November 28, 2013, 06:01:03 AM
I don't think that coinbase drives the price except if they are using other exchanges to buy and then sell bitcoins to their customers Tongue

Coinbase has to buy the coins from someone.

Yeah but i thought from dark pools or something not by placing bids on Gox  Roll Eyes

Changes in demand always effects price.  Those are potentially supply taken off of Gox, or even purchased on Gox by traders who sell to coinbase.

You can't just pull btc out of your ass.

Dark pools are exchanges. It's not pulling bitcoins out of your ass. Google it.

I know what a dark pool is.  My point is that "dark" trades still influence supply and demand and therefore influence price.
757  Economy / Speculation / Re: Would you put all your savings money into BTC? on: November 28, 2013, 05:59:15 AM
This is insane. I wouldn't recommend putting any money into Bitcoin that could be needed within the next 12 month. The price is rising, yes. But it could also drop to zero, so you have to be able to write the money off the moment you invest.

Even if you have just some small money, I would recommend to keep at least 30-50% in fiat at your bank. What happens if your car brakes need to be renewed? If your oven fails or your refrigerator? Ah, the damn yearly car insurance is due all out of a sudden. And there, damn, I completely forgot about my legal protection insurance, has it always been charged in March? There can always arise more or less "unforseen" problems where you need to access your savings.

With this background you will definetly panic if the exchange value drops below a certain level, and you will panic-sell at a way too low point - giving you a nice loss in BTC and even in FIAT if the timing is bad.

Keep a buffer in FIAT in case something happens, keep some FIAT as savings for the things you will need in the next timespan. Better cut some of your unnecessary expenses and take this money to gamble with BTC. And always keep in mind that BTC is still a virtual toything without guarantee to success.

I agree that people should be prepared for unplanned expenses, but your examples are terrible.  They mostly involve forgetting something that happens on a regular basis.  Besides, even if I forget about my brakes until they chew through the rotor, I can get new rotors and pads for both sides for less than $100.  If i'm reasonable and replace my brakes when they should be replaces, the pads alone are like $20.

But for the real emergencies, you either need some fiat or to just have so many BTC that it dropping to $100 still leaves you with enough for any reasonable contingency. Wink
758  Economy / Speculation / Re: Why is the BTC/LTC price changing so much on: November 28, 2013, 05:52:43 AM
Some people buying based on a weird belief that litecoin is cheap and bitcoin is expensive... I wonder what will happen when litecoin becomes expensive as well  Shocked

Some of us will get rich.   Grin

Obviously but i 'm asking if there is a 3rd coin that people will move to after litecoin.

NMC, XPM, NVC, TRC, PPC, ...and 100 others.

Take your pick.
759  Economy / Speculation / Re: Taking a loan to buy bitcoin on: November 28, 2013, 05:50:16 AM
I'm thinking of getting a loan to buy more bitcoin, as I'm guessing we'll reach $10K in a few months it can be a good deal to lend at a bank against 5% anual rate

Did anyone do this before? Would like some experience advice

There have been many people in here asking about the same thing and I think it's a recipe for disaster and would not recommend it. Invest what you can afford to lose, if you become too greedy it could very well come back and bite you in the ass (and karma says it will). You will live in regret for the rest of your life. Don't do it, if bitcoin succeeds a few bitcoins will be enough to buy a house or two.

Let's say someone took a loan of $100k in september and put it into Bitcoin, he would have made about $900k minus interest in just less than 2 months. There's no going wrong here.

If I take a loan now of $100k and put it into Bitcoin, it might be worth 10x in just a few months. Worst case scenario it will bubble to $9k and back to $1k, then I would have only lost the interest on the loan. It's a winner bet to become a millionaire from just one simple move at the moment, with no losing edge in sight.

Ok lets say you do this. How do you cash out 900k? Who is going to have enough money to buy a 900K worth of bitcoins? and if someone buys you at 900K, how are you going to cash out? the bank is going to be tripping balls about all that money, what are you going to say? Also, think about exchange sites being seized and you lossing the money (Example : Bitcoin-24). And if you split it in groups of 10k, it will take you ages to cash out the entire thing and during that time, if bitcoin is still as insanely volatile, the price would from fluctuate a bit to crash.

I still admire your balls (no homo). I want to jump off a bridge by missing on the bitcoin boat and then jump again at missing on the LTC board (it was 7.4 dollars when I learned about it, but I couldn't find a fucking place to buy LTC in europe that didn't need for you to present bill proof evidence, and I cant do that because im a poor NEET failure that lives with its parents).
fuck my life

Whilst I think wopwop is insane for considering it, I do still need to point out that cashing 900k at the moment isn't particularly hard - you see that spike down under 1000 on the hourly chart, check the volume during that hour... 15,000 BTC changed hands. Thats approx $15m. Selling $900k isn't as hard as you might think.

Now getting that $900k out of an exchange and into a bank account? I'll admit I am very naive to how one goes about doing that. A regular SEPA transfer into your current account (or a 'wire into your checking account' in US terms I think?) well that is gonna raise some eyebrows at my bank I agree.



He only needs to cash out $100k plus interest Wink.
760  Economy / Speculation / Re: Next Big Boom - December 3/4th-ish on: November 28, 2013, 05:30:33 AM
I don't think that coinbase drives the price except if they are using other exchanges to buy and then sell bitcoins to their customers Tongue

Coinbase has to buy the coins from someone.

Yeah but i thought from dark pools or something not by placing bids on Gox  Roll Eyes

Changes in demand always effects price.  Those are potentially supply taken off of Gox, or even purchased on Gox by traders who sell to coinbase.

You can't just pull btc out of your ass.
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