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441  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: May 31, 2015, 02:24:00 AM
it's called Metcalfe's Law.  "value" of the network is squared by every new user.  iCE would rather keep it strangled down to him and his Myrcea buddies.


Not every new user needs direct access to the Mother Blockchain:


I think you've drunk the SideChain cool aid, and now your salary is dependent on the views of your employer.

It's not about what you think other people need (we have central controls to manage that), it's about individuals having freedom to make the best subjective choice.

I would think just like you if I had a product that solved the problem like SC does. In fact I was pushing in the same direction until  Peter Tod released this video. https://youtu.be/cZp7UGgBR0I, I agreed with him for all of 1 day a year ago and Justice I think pointed out very concisely the problems of limiting money velocity was not good for bitcoin. (he was the only critical voice at the time.)

I hope this does not pop up on Reddit.

Interesting. Could you link to that thing where Justus argues about money velocity? I'm not familiar with that.

...

Also, funny you mentioned Peter Todd, he and Gavin were arguing about Blockchain size today.

https://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/lets-talk-bitcoin-217-the-bitcoin-block-size-discussion

I wasn't quite sure what he was talking about when he mentioned "hub and spoke" solutions, but after watching the video, I can visualize what he's getting at, and I think it's the way to go, maybe with side chains, but maybe not. Maybe you could just use alt coins? We've certainly got enough of them, and they don't seem to be going away any time soon.

I think as long as we can remove regulatory barriers to exchanges by using real time transparency audits to prove reserves, we can drive down the friction of exchange. Each alt coin could act as a hub in his model, and bitcoin is the back end clearing house where less frequent, high value transactions take place.

442  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 30, 2015, 04:05:08 AM
Btw, 550 transactions with less than half a cent fee took less than 4 hours to clear - even during an intentional spam attack on the network that saw unconfirmed transactions exceed 25,000.

https://blockchain.info/address/12qLgVrkW561PbpfvokKwfj7CPjCVwwCTS

There is no evidence that bitcoin will crash and burn once we reach the block limit. I would rather tackle the problem of sustainable transaction fees to support the miners now when the network is still small than push of the problem several years into the future when the network might be several times larger.
443  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 30, 2015, 03:43:54 AM
Lol 26000 unconfirmed transactions. And blockchain.info is lagged like shit.

I think what's happening is other nodes are hanging onto 26,000+ old transactions while blockchain.info drops them after a certain amount of time, with only 5000 transactions, hence the discrepancy.

Where do you get the 26000 number?

I suspect many of the transactions will be considered spam or below the dust limit or whatever.

I'll be watching this guy's attempt to see if these transactions ever get accepted.
https://blockchain.info/address/12qLgVrkW561PbpfvokKwfj7CPjCVwwCTS

Are they paying the fees for those transactions, and how much is the combined total of fees paid? I assume the miners will ignore any transactions with no fees.

edit]

Block 358596 had fees of 0.4 Bitcoins. Spamming the Bitcoin network is not cheap.

https://blockchain.info/tx/7e10ba892d255c7c035e44b9a4216519d2ffbf4454f59f3cd5c1be3d23b5f3d9

That's the first transaction he sent, paid 0.000019 BTC in fees. I'm pretty sure all his transaction will go through eventually.

Also pretty sure that all this panic that bitcoin will collapse if we reach the block limit is just a bunch of bullshit FUD.

[Rant]
the main chain should not be treated as if it is a free unlimited resource. There should be a cost involved to place your entry in the blockchain, eventually, this cost will be significant. Scarcity on the main chain should be preserved.

Personally, I'm still undecided on how we can achieve this super-secure ledger while still offering a reasonably secure solution for everyday transactions, but I'm currently leaning towards side chains... or even just using alt coins, if there were low enough friction of transferring back and forth
[/rant]

Everyday purchases can be done using a 3rd party that you periodically top off. for example using http://www.getonebit.com/ to buy stuff anywere paypas is appected. I cant wait for this to be in beta, hopefully i get in on the "early access"

in anycase, i don't see why TX costs has to increase, for now the mining reward is sufficient, and TX vol will increase, 30 years from now when there is no more block reward  the network will avg 100TX per second, 8,640,000TX a day, each with a 0.00001BTC fee bring in ~86.4BTC a day making the block reward ~0.6BTC. Assuming a tx fee of 0.00001BTC = 10 cents  that means 1BTC = 10,000 dollars, making the block reward 6000$, currently the block reward is about 5900$, so we should be able to deliver the same kind of network security based off of TX fees alone. 8,640,000TX @ 10 cents a TX  = 8640$ a day to keep bitcoin running. Maybe bitcoin is used by 2million poeple making an avg of 4.3 TX a day ( actually using bitcoin for day to day purchases ) These users would incur fees of 43cents a day or 13$ a month or 157.05$ year in TX fees, which appears to be competitive with banking fees

bottom line we need 2 million people using bitcoin for the network to be secure without a block reward

doable.

OK, but you are giving the same level of security (around 6000 dollars per block rewards) that is currently protecting a network worth about 3.5 billion and you want to use that same level incentive to protect a network where (1BTC = 10,000 dollars, so network worth about 210 billion)- and that doesn't even take into consideration colored coins representing equity in companies trading on nasdaq (coming soon Wink

You are talking about a network worth a hundred times more, so the fees would need to be a hundred times higher (in this example, $10 fee to embed your transaction, perfectly reasonable, cheap even)

Bitcoin should be used for buying houses and lambos and private islands and settling debts between nations, not for buying coffee or tipping 25 cents to watch a you tube video.

...

I don't have the answer, I don't think anyone can know for sure.

I just think that bitcoin's killer app is the security and immutability of the Blockchain, and unless you can leverage the value of that security by enforcing scarcity and providing sufficient incentive to the miners to provide that security, then it's just not going to work.
444  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: May 30, 2015, 02:12:18 AM
Gavin moving forward. Will you be left behind? :

http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/message/34155307/

There you go again.  Using fear (this time, of being "left behind" from the glorious rapture of GavinCoin) to sell a hard fork.

The rough consensus of all non-Gavin core devs is against 20mb blocks in the near future.

But for some reason, Gavin will only accept a consensus which aligns with his position.  Who does he think he is, Linux Torvalds or Evan Duffield?

So how does Gavin the pointy-headed boss react to being unable to convince his coders and engineers?

By lobbying (*cough, panicking, cough*) the drooling masses in an attempt to overrule the experts with a stampeding mob.

That's not the path of "calm down already" suggested by Nick Szabo.

The Gavin tail is trying to wag the core dev dog, which guarantees the predictable "rancor" he's whining about.

Ironically, when the wheels fall off of GavinCoin because of UXTO assplosions or whatever, these spurned core devs will be the ones Gavin and everyone else will turn to for solutions.  Typical "Oops I broke it, now you fix it" pointy-headed boss behavior!   Cheesy

If persistent full 1mb blocks turn out to be an insurmountable problem, consensus to modify that limit would not need to be manufactured with lobbying and tales of impending dooom.

take a look at how a rag tag army of volunteers can clog up the network.  we're still stuck at over 23000 unconf tx's, with a peak around 25000, now about 2 hrs later:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/37rwph/stress_test_for_the_next_few_hours_ill_be/

I just sent a test transaction, just a quick spend from my Blockchain.info spending wallet, and it made it into the very next block, so as far as my experience goes, that rag tag army clogged up exactly nothing.



445  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 30, 2015, 01:11:30 AM
Lol 26000 unconfirmed transactions. And blockchain.info is lagged like shit.

I think what's happening is other nodes are hanging onto 26,000+ old transactions while blockchain.info drops them after a certain amount of time, with only 5000 transactions, hence the discrepancy.

Where do you get the 26000 number?

I suspect many of the transactions will be considered spam or below the dust limit or whatever.

I'll be watching this guy's attempt to see if these transactions ever get accepted.
https://blockchain.info/address/12qLgVrkW561PbpfvokKwfj7CPjCVwwCTS

Are they paying the fees for those transactions, and how much is the combined total of fees paid? I assume the miners will ignore any transactions with no fees.

edit]

Block 358596 had fees of 0.4 Bitcoins. Spamming the Bitcoin network is not cheap.

https://blockchain.info/tx/7e10ba892d255c7c035e44b9a4216519d2ffbf4454f59f3cd5c1be3d23b5f3d9

That's the first transaction he sent, paid 0.000019 BTC in fees. I'm pretty sure all his transaction will go through eventually.

Also pretty sure that all this panic that bitcoin will collapse if we reach the block limit is just a bunch of bullshit FUD.

[Rant]
the main chain should not be treated as if it is a free unlimited resource. There should be a cost involved to place your entry in the blockchain, eventually, this cost will be significant. Scarcity on the main chain should be preserved.

Personally, I'm still undecided on how we can achieve this super-secure ledger while still offering a reasonably secure solution for everyday transactions, but I'm currently leaning towards side chains... or even just using alt coins, if there were low enough friction of transferring back and forth
[/rant]
446  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 30, 2015, 12:12:23 AM
Lol 26000 unconfirmed transactions. And blockchain.info is lagged like shit.

I think what's happening is other nodes are hanging onto 26,000+ old transactions while blockchain.info drops them after a certain amount of time, with only 5000 transactions, hence the discrepancy.

Where do you get the 26000 number?

I suspect many of the transactions will be considered spam or below the dust limit or whatever.

I'll be watching this guy's attempt to see if these transactions ever get accepted.
https://blockchain.info/address/12qLgVrkW561PbpfvokKwfj7CPjCVwwCTS
447  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 29, 2015, 11:40:55 PM
Lol 4100 unconfirmed transactions.

2142.1044921875 (KB) Block size.

Mostly just because miners haven't found a block in the last 30 minutes, which is just coincidentally the same time the "test" began.



4900 unconfirmed transactions and 2500 KB block size, this will fuck a lot of miners.

How does this affect miners at all? Miners can output empty block if they want, regardless of how many unconfirmed transactions. When it comes to creating blocks, the miners run the show.

Edit: one thing I do find funny though, Satoshi implemented the 1MB block limit as a denial of service prevention measure, and now a handful of people on reddit are performing a denial of service attack on the network to protest the limit that was supposed to prevent the attack...  Huh
448  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 29, 2015, 11:36:33 PM
Lol 4100 unconfirmed transactions.

2142.1044921875 (KB) Block size.

Mostly just because miners haven't found a block in the last 30 minutes, which is just coincidentally the same time the "test" began.

449  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 29, 2015, 10:13:38 PM

'bout time something interesting happened.

T-47 minutes...
450  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: May 29, 2015, 02:16:07 AM
Please be aware of this guy TPTB_need_war  - he's a real piece of work.

when talking about his own super-secret new-and-improved bitcoin-killer it's all about monetization, can't release the code for free, can't tell you about how his idea somehow "fixes" everything that's wrong with bitcoin...

When talking about anyone else's project, it's gotta be open-source or else.


I think he's very duplicitous and in general I'm very suspicious of his motives.

But that's just like, my opinion, man.
451  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 28, 2015, 04:02:51 PM
Good morning Bitcoinland.

Still going sideways.

Yawn.

"The market can stay boring longer than you can stay awake."

Huh
452  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 27, 2015, 10:46:26 PM

How do you think PoS wouldn't be better for the network?  Do you think the average third world person deserves a chance to help secure the network?


Proof of stake serves only to enrich the stakers.

You fail it
453  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 27, 2015, 09:26:18 PM
It's going to continue going down.

I think Cryptsy or even Poloniex has more volume than GBTC and the Stockholm. Giving away free bitcoin mining toasters is hardly impressive as well.

It's been just big disappointment after big disappointment.

I also think that the Chinese can control the mining industry and actually take losses there that are made up through market manipulation.

Bitcoin would be far better off PoS. Right now it's a huge bottomless hole of electricity cost and one nuclear miner or subsidized miner would knock everyone's socks off. Also, you have money going into BTC and then money flowing into machines the equivalent of a 1970's type writer (worthless now.) It would be much better if it was "all in one". It may encourage people to solo stake (pool staking seems sketchyish.)  Bitcoin has far to many people invested/scamming with mining for it to change at this point I fear...

PoS would provide better growth for the network.

LOL!

You're a funny guy!

How's your lawsuit against coinbase going?
454  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Speculation (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero Speculation on: May 27, 2015, 01:44:00 AM

Withdraw is not the same as sell...

Sure, but I can't think of another reason you'd want to withdraw a million dollars from an exchange? How did those million dollars get there? Likely you want to liquidate your 2010 stash and you're looking to cash out, right?

455  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: May 27, 2015, 01:23:28 AM
need some opinions on this, from Reddit:

"Second, if push comes to shove and we end up with a fork battle then whoever holds the most will have the most power in choosing which wins out anyway. They can simply sell on one fork and buy on the other to shift the relative values. Whichever fork ends up most valuable will attract the most miners. Stronger value and security will attract more users to that fork."

is this viable?  this could be interesting...

Mircea proposes something similar as an attack or defense against Gavincoin.

http://qntra.net/2015/01/the-hard-fork-missile-crisis/
http://trilema.com/2015/if-you-go-on-a-bitcoin-fork-irrespective-which-scammer-proposes-it-you-will-lose-your-bitcoins/

You can love him or hate him but he does have a certain amount of both funding and following...

Gotta love bitcoin drama, lol
456  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Speculation (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero Speculation on: May 27, 2015, 12:02:46 AM
...

Although I agree that 25k is a lot of monero right now it wouldn't be if it went back up to its high of 5 or 6 dollars.  This limit would make it hard for people who like to hop in and out of currency unless they keep their crypto on the exchange.  I wonder if they will make exceptions.

If Monero goes up in price for this to be an issue the market will solve this problem with exchanges that are not limited to a 25,000 USD withdrawal per day and / or multiple exchanges in different jurisdictions. The best solution to this kind of problem is a wide diversity in exchange providers, exchange types, jurisdictions etc.

Whats the largest USD withdrawals from the larger BTC exchanges you guys heard about?  Do they have limits?  Could you withdraw a mil?


CaVirtex was the highest limit I had seen at 200k

 
Could you withdraw a mil? Not a chance. There is no where near that kind of liquidity on virtex... maybe slowly over the course of a year...
457  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Speculation (Altcoins) / Re: [XMR] Monero Speculation on: May 26, 2015, 09:07:03 AM
i tried it, worked well.
unfortunately they send with mixing 0, rest worked fine for me. sometimes the price they offer is not so good, sometimes its better than on the exchange.

Hmm, I haven't tried it myself, but I could've sworn that I read Shapeshift uses mixin 3 now. I thought it was on reddit, but not seeing it now. Did you try within the last week or two, or longer ago than that?

They set it back to zero because of some problems with dust outputs or something. I don't know who received that message, but if you read this, please come and elaborate more on this matter (or perhaps shapeshift itself could elaborate?).

Just fyi,
I just tried shapeshift, (I just can't say no to +500 xmr/btc) - the transaction was done with mixin = 1

Looks completely obfuscated to me, but I'm really only starting to experiment with Monero transactions.
458  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: May 21, 2015, 04:46:00 PM
Otherwise you would have include networking in the otherwise standalone charger and connect it to a network which no one is going to do.
This is precisely what "system on a chip" is all about.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2015/05/12/samsung-artik-system-on-a-chip-internet-of-things/
"A system on a chip (or SoC) integrates all the key components of a mobile computer onto a single chip, including memory, sensors, accelerometer and gyroscope, and crucially, radio frequency functions."

459  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: May 21, 2015, 09:39:07 AM
yes, excellent opportunity to sell.

Good luck in flat market. Hope you can stay profitable.

Wait a minute, I thought you sold already? How many coins do you have Mr whale frog?
460  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: May 21, 2015, 07:52:42 AM
For the people clambering on about phone mining, listen to this:

https://m.soundcloud.com/elux-1/21-inc-embedded-engineer-on-whaleclub-teamspeak

Thank you. Very interesting. Cool stuff. But...

It still sounds like just processing and relaying transactions. I don't see how these devices would ever find a block, or ever get paid out even if they did.

Doesn't sound like the block rewards are the goal though... Very interesting...
Yep, thats what i got from it.

Sounds like we have fast forwarded to the time we are approaching 21M bitcoins, and this stuff would be the answer to no more block rewards. No?

Umm, no. I don't think so. The transaction processing is important for the network to function, but the difficulty of finding a block is the key to the security of the whole system.

I guess maybe a billion devices that do maybe a few mega hash every now and then, when they're plugged in, might find some blocks, but I don't think that's sufficient incentive to ensure security.
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