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1  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: SCAM EXCHANGE: Openchange (Openchange.cash) (PARTIALLY SOLVED) on: July 09, 2022, 10:05:34 AM
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I would like to see a more detailed analysis to see how they justify their conclusions.
http://joxi.ru/ZrJoxGqCQ4v9pm

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If there's a chance for the funds to be "high risk", why can't the user first confirm they aren't and move onto depositing to your exchange right after?
Maybe we will add this feature in the future

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Can you shed any light on where you decided to use a 10% figure confiscating user funds? I mean, why not raise your percentage to 50%, 100% or even drop it to 5% or zero?
We relied on statistics

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Just wondering, if user bother to provide evidence they use ChipMixer (or other mixer),
1. Would you allow that user to use OpenChange?
2. What proof do you accept? Screenshot of their browser?
The crypto exchange demanded to block this client.
All possible evidence, including screenshots, is accepted for confirmation.

As I said before perhaps we will revise our rules regarding AML and additional fees.
2  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: SCAM EXCHANGE: Openchange (Openchange.cash) (PARTIALLY SOLVED) on: July 08, 2022, 09:20:47 AM
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Based on what/whose analysis? The coins came directly from ChipMixer, meaning it is impossible for you to say they are 100% anything (unless you are the first person ever to be able to break ChipMixer). You have absolutely no idea where those coins came from, and claiming they are "stolen 100%" is nonsense.

Check this

http://joxi.ru/l2ZozEVClok8NA
3  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: SCAM EXCHANGE: Openchange (Openchange.cash) (PARTIALLY SOLVED) on: July 08, 2022, 04:16:46 AM
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I'm wondering why a 10% refund, not the full sum?
According to your ToS or rules, whatever you say, you are confiscating money because you want to prevent funds from being stolen and you are trying to get the fund back to the rightful owner as you said above. Now, since you have refunded 10% (no confirmation yet though), how will you send the full money back to the original if this fund is stolen?

Read carefully, at the moment the user has received the full amount.
We are not engaged in investigating theft or finding the rightful owner, this is what the crypto exchange is doing. If they approve the transaction and credit the account, we complete the order. If not, we request additional information through them.
We do not make a scam. We just exchange currencies, but sometimes users with high-risk money come along and make problems like this. For some reason, you all took his side. I absolutely don't understand why. Who can explain to me?

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Can you please check the bold part and say what was the reasoning of confiscating fund in this case?

Funds were frozen because their risk was Stolen 100%

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Solved and stolen by you or what?

The user has already received all his money

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how will you behave in the next similar cases? Returning 100% depends on your frozen funds or if a negative story is started about your business (like this one)?
why are there even cases where you kept 10% of such funds, although, in the end, it turned out that it had no negative impact on your accounts?

We will think about it.

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Welcome to Bitcointalk and nice to see you finally joining this conversation.
Can you please tell us what third party exchanges are you using, and do you use one or more accounts with them?

We use WhiteBIT and Binance

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So what happens when he send you his kyc identification, and you have totally different kyc detail for your account in third party exchange?
It doesn't make any sense that sending any documents would unfreeze your account and coins, if names from documents don't match.

We only resend kyc identification to crypto exchange support, we don't make a decisions.

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It's not like I trust him or anyone else blindly, but something obviously changed quickly and you suddenly changed your decision.

Since the user refused to provide any information, I talked to the support of the exchange and they agreed to receive at least a textual justification for the funds. The user provided this and the funds were unfrozen.

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After all, how can I know that you really openchange team member and not some troll who is just wasting time?

Check my username https://openchange.cash/bitcointalk.txt

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You can use other exchanges that don't have such strict rules, maybe use decentralize exchanges, or ask customers to first give you address to check if it is high risk or not.
After that you can decide if you want to accept his coins or not.

Very few exchanges provide multiple addresses for deposits. We will think about it. Thank you.


Victim? It's funny. High-risk funds are sent to me, but you call the sender a victim. I can not believe this.

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Would you be able to explain why you decided to return the stolen 10% to the victim?

I want to stop this discussion. Perhaps we will revise our rules regarding AML and additional fees.
4  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: SCAM EXCHANGE: Openchange (Openchange.cash) (PARTIALLY SOLVED) on: July 07, 2022, 05:12:16 PM
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Can you confirm your Bitcointalk username in openchange.cash/bitcointalk.txt, so we know you're the real owner?
Sysadmin will do it asap.

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@Support OpenChange: Maybe you can answer some questions:
Where is your exchange located?
Who's behind it? An anonymous email address isn't enough.
Why do you use a third party's deposit address without announcing that?
Our personal located in Russia. We inform about the use of the crypto exchange in the User Agreement. This is insignificant information, the vast majority of users do not need it. If we include too much information on the order creating page, then clients will complain that the information is unreadable. Users will always find something to complain about.

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Many times, such freezes allowed the thieves to be stopped and the funds returned to the rightful owners.
Claims like this require evidence. Who's the rightful owner, and how do you find them after mixing coins?
This issue is dealt with by a professional team of crypto exchanges.


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This particular phrase makes no sense in this place.
It may not matter to you, but it matters to us. Is it OK for you if you receive high-risk or dirty money? I don't think so.

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Here are a few questions:

  • Were the funds frozen because they were part of a mixer's transaction?
  • If yes, don't you find it offensive to confiscate customer's money because they chose to protect their privacy?
  • Are you willing to tell us the criteria you identify "dirty" funds?
  • If not, don't you find it fraudulent from the customer's side to, not only disapprove but also confiscate their money, just because it doesn't meet your potentially arbitrary criteria?
  • Had you ever thought of asking the user's inputs, so you can judge if you can accept them according to your criteria?
You can find all the answers in section 7 of the User Agreement and our first post. Let's not duplicate information.
We write the rules in the User Agreement not for discussion. If you are not satisfied with the rules of using our service, you have the full right to use other exchangers.


I think since we gave enough justifications and made a return of 10%, this conflict can be considered solved.
5  Economy / Scam Accusations / Re: SCAM EXCHANGE: Openchange (Openchange.cash) (PARTIALLY SOLVED) on: July 07, 2022, 03:15:02 PM
Hello everyone! It's OpenChange.

Let we tell you our point of view.

Some user came to our website. He was informed that the incoming transaction would be subject to AML verification. He also agreed to our User Agreement that:
- the funds sent will send to the crypto exchange
- he knew that his funds were high risk / dirty
- sent funds will be AML checked by the crypto exchange
- he understood that they would be frozen by the exchange and that verification would be required
Please note that we do not require verification from the user, but only transfer data to the crypto exchange that requests this information. Since the funds are sent to a cryptocurrency exchange, we have no way to make a refund without receiving additional information. When the user provided this information, the funds were unfrozen by crypto exchange, credited to our account and after refund was made.

About crypto exchanges:
Using crypto exchanges allows us to convert cryptocurrency into USDT immediately after being credited to the account and fix the exchange rate. If we accepted funds to a cold wallet and sent them to the exchange, then order processing would take a very long time and users would complain about losses due to the volatility of the exchange rate. We inform users that the funds will be accepted to the crypto exchange.

About 10% fee:
Many times we have lost and frozen our own funds due to users sending high risk funds. Questions about these transactions appear after we complete orders. You can't even imagine how much money was lost due to users like this one. This is our rule. If some user does not agree with our rules, he can use another exchanger.
Since the user did not provide any evidence of using ChipMixer, we have every reason to believe that the funds were stolen. Refusal to provide additional information confirms this. Many times, such freezes allowed the thieves to be stopped and the funds returned to the rightful owners.

About slander:
The user wrote that we are cheating someone with Western Union transfers and with PayPal, but this is a lie. No one knows where he got this nonsense from and he did not provide any evidence. You all just believed him and did not check.

What do you think would be the right thing to do in this situation? We are interested in hearing your answers.

P.S. We have decided to refund 10% to the user and have already done so. We hope it will help stop the conflict.
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