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61  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][VRC] | VeriCoin | POS - NSDI | VeriBit | VeriSend | VeriSMS on: July 15, 2014, 08:56:50 PM
From here forward I will use 'we' as in 'crypto'

We have the ability, to undo unjust massive criminal actions.
We have the ability to stand up and fight for the rights of people.
We have the ability to make ground breaking decisions for the positive side of things finally.
We have the ability to CHOOSE if we do not like something and move on.
We have the ability to let the people determine the fate of when an exchange when they ever so blatantly disregards their own statements regarding security, by choosing to not use them.
We have the ability to not let a thief become a centralized , determining factor of a project.
We do not have to take a beating from others lacking judgement when so many could/would have been affected.
We do NOT have to mimic and or follow in the footsteps of others every move , just because 'they' would or wouldn't because they were the 1st to create an idea or movement. (yes I am implying BTC here)

We are in a revolution, and revolutionary progress, is not simply not following an old path, it requires leadership , that make fast, appropriate and responsive decisions that would affect masses, both good & bad.

I for one am proud, that the team involved with VRC, had the moral capability to step outside the box that 'some' seem trapped in, to make a difficult decision.

Walking behind others will never lead you down a new path where evolution is detrimental to success.

Everyone, enjoy your day.

that makes my day, thank you.

Maybe FUDers get it now.
62  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][VRC] | VeriCoin | POS - NSDI | VeriBit | VeriSend | VeriSMS on: July 15, 2014, 08:50:35 PM

People are worried that this might set precedent for other coins to respond the same. An example would be if Bitcoin did this when Mt.Gox happened.

Bitcoin has forked two times, significantly. One was in 2010 when someone was able to mint billions of Bitcoins. They had to go back 100 transactions and reset the chain. Thankfully, the network was really small then, and all the developers had to do was get to the big pools and tell them to update their codes. Bitcoin was really small, and no one cared about it, so it didn’t get much attention.

The second event was where Bitcoin was updating from, I believe, 0.7 to 0.8. People didn’t like the 0.8 change, so some people didn’t move over. Basically, they were competing on two parallel chains for a long time. Eventually, the developers decided to revert back to 0.7.

When people say we’re abusing our power, that’s fine; they can say what they want to. I don’t think of it that way, because we were going out of our way to prevent the coin from dying off. Most of the people who are critical of this are people that don’t own it and are people that want another coin to succeed. They attack every coin and right now it’s a good opportunity to attack VeriCoin.

------

There is more, read the full article @ http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/vericoin-developer-speaks-ccn-mintpal-hardfork/2014/07/15



That is the mos important part.
The dev decided to make a change but the people didn't.
And in the end it was the users that decided the which chain was the right one.

Here there was decision taken by a few to protect a business , nothing more.

What are you talking about, vericoin community decided to go with the forked chain and showed support for it. Now you can FUD elsewhere.
63  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][VRC] | VeriCoin | POS - NSDI | VeriBit | VeriSend | VeriSMS on: July 15, 2014, 08:40:30 PM
Just noticed 5 million+ vrc was transferred a few blocks back, hope someone hasn't been hacked into again. Sad

That's down from 8M. It's Mintpal's coins they are distributing back to the owners now. Go backwards through the chain and you can see them distributing it.
I would like to give a big thank you to the VRC Dev team and the Dogecoin guy for so brilliantly making things right.  You guys not only saved Mintpal and everyone who had any type of crypto on that exchange but you also saved Vericoin from a 51% attack that would have assuredly killed the coin.  And I don't think you should even say that you will never do this again.  I think every criminal thief out there will think twice about stealing Vericoins now, because now we have proven that justice can be served in crypto.  Next we just have to get a better way of catching the criminals and sending them to jail too.  Smiley

p.s. Everyone please keep moving your coins off Mint and into your wallet.  Learn the practice of only putting your coins on an exchange for a few minutes when you need to exchange them.  Then right back to your wallet.  This will reduce your odds of getting MintGox'd by atleast 1000X.  It will also at the same time reduce the chances of the exchange getting targeted in the first place and will secure the entire Vericoin network from anyone planning a 51% attack.  Think of it as your duty.

I have posted several times that I also believe the devs acted wisely. But the gratitude for it would be quite excessive since their options were so limited that, in fact, there was nothing else they could do. Thanking someone for doing the only thing they could possibly do, is overkill, I'd say. Did they save the coin? obviously they did. But that benefits no one more than themselves -other than the Black Hand, of course, which is a very important consideration by the way-. If they did nothing, VRC couldn't exist today. Neither would MintPal... nor the BLACK HAND. And the reputations and the names of these devs would be ruined forever, while the same bar of transparency that they raised significantly with VRC, would actually prevent them from any position of significance, ever again, in crypto.

So the gratitude is far from warranted... even if, as is the case, I fully support what they were forced to do.

And on that note, I still fail to see - that's why I expect, anxiously, the addressing of the matter in the hangout-, the reason (or price, for VRC should benefit monetarily and in significant measure for it) for saving MintPal, obviously the element at fault besides the crooks. From ANY perspective, Mintpal, the responsible part for inadequately handling the coins they were entrusted with, is the overwhelming winner in this fiasco they allowed to happen. They would be bankrupt by now, without any doubt. Instead, they are still in business -although I hope people will rush out of Dodge on that regard and force them to close shop as of tomorrow- and their negligence hasn't cost them a penny, thanks to the VRC devs.

Accountability, unfortunately -along with flagrant fraud and thievery- continues to be dominant in cryptoworld. Even while the good guys, seemingly, have started to arrive.

Normal world regulation is so sorely needed...

Let's make some math:
- Mintpal's daily volume was around BTC 2.5K, some BTC 5 daily revenues or US$ 2500 (based on 0.2% transaction fee)
- VRC 8M were valued at some US$1.65M
- This means some 660 days of MintPal's revenues
- Let's assume some VRC 12K coins as an average position
- This means some 660 people were holding their coins at MP

Conclusions:
1) MP would never be able to pay and would go bankrupt
2) As an immediate consequence, all 660 VRC holders would loose their money
3) With 30% of VRC coins out there available for further attacks, VRC would crash and all people holding it would loose their money

So, please, let not fool ourselves: It was not about saving MintPal. It was about saving the coin and the investors' money.

Wow! That's horrible of them! Saving their coin and investor's money! What kind of a world do we live in where people are allowed to make such heinous attacks against the very fabric of cryptocurrencies </sarcasm>

And why is nobody talking about the poor thief?  I mean his feeling are probably really hurt he didn't get to take millions from thousands of people.  VRC devs should be ashamed, taking hard earned money from a thief.

Yeah, and think about his efforts too, the hard work he put into this - where is his hard earned reward now?
I really feel so much sympathy for him. /s

BTW, bought me some VRC today and will continue to add. Go vericoin!  \o/
64  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][VRC] | VeriCoin | POS - NSDI | VeriBit | VeriSend | VeriSMS on: July 14, 2014, 03:10:58 AM
Wait, a hard fork because an exchange was hacked? I hope you spend some time making this decision, because if the devs simply hard fork to reset the blockchain to a state that they prefer the trust in this decentralized currency will suffer from that.

Note that Gox could have been solved the very same way, but there was no hard fork of BTC, and that had a reason.

But good for Mintpal, nice to hear that these poor guys don't have too much losses  Huh

Do you want a thief with 30% of coins unloading on your community, I imagine that the bitcoin loss, though monetarily more, it was not as big of a % of the total network.

% is not an argument. The fact that a business fucked up in their security of their customers' VRC is not the devs problem. But obviously the devs want to make it their problem.

VRC hacks and scams will come with expectations now in the future. "Hey someone hacked my personal VRC wallet...can you VRC devs roll back and hard fork the blockchain so I can get my coins back?"

Utter BS.

Yeah, because all the hacks and thefts stopped with bitcoin, because the DEVs always refuted to step in.

65  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][VRC] | VeriCoin | POS - NSDI | VeriBit | VeriSend | VeriSMS on: July 14, 2014, 03:05:22 AM
And the BTC fork for that 184 million exploited coins was for development?  Yes I know you previously try to explain how that wasn't the same.  Facts are, someone illicitly grabbed a bunch of coins, and the community reacted to negate it.  No two scenarios are the same and must be resolved differently.  
Nobody grabbed illicit coins... someone exploited a flaw to generate more coins then they should while mining a block.  It was a protocol level flaw in bitcoin that was fixed.  Yes, that was a development mistake, and a hardfork was necessary (the fix made the new blockchain incompatible with the old blockchain, and that 184million coin block was orphaned as a result).  The VRC action is totally different.  VRC IS NOT SUGGESTING A HARDFORK - the devs aren't fixing anything.  They are acting for benefit of an exchange and third party to the protocol.

Rolling-back a blockchain is unbelievably contrary to a decentralized ledger.  That, is the key.

Quote
A bookkeeper who "fudges" the books, has no place being trusted to keep the public ledger. Pressure is moot.

They are not acting for the benefit of an exchange, because there would be no legal obligation for the exchange to reimburse customers. Again you seem to not like the idea, that a thieve will hold an empty bag.

66  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][VRC] | VeriCoin | POS - NSDI | VeriBit | VeriSend | VeriSMS on: July 14, 2014, 02:49:08 AM
Then go and learn and read my and other´s previous posts. I am tired to repeat myself over and over again.

And I am annoyed to see people using buzzwords to distract readers. Maybe you should better try this centralization thing again.
What buzzwords?  It's a blockchain rollback.  It is not a hardfork...  I don't think anybody except you is trying to distract users.

A hardfork is when you create a branch of the network that is not compatible with the other branch - that's not happening here.  

VRC is proposing to roll back the blockchain and create a soft-fork starting at a previous block height.  The intent is then to essentially 51% attack the coin so that the rollback branch becomes a longer chain, therefore orphaning all the original blocks.

Having scrolled through your post history, I see nothing I can possibly learn from you.

Quote
Do this fork, and you have successfully 51% double spent your own network.
Try harder, every hardfork can be described as a 51% attack on the competing chain. But only someone who wants to distract people will describe it the way you do it.

And now you are speaking of a softfork?

Don´t know what your quote is all about
67  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][VRC] | VeriCoin | POS - NSDI | VeriBit | VeriSend | VeriSMS on: July 14, 2014, 02:33:33 AM
And FFS... stop calling this a hardfork.  This is a blockchain rollback.  There is a huge difference.
Desperately trying to create new buzzwords? The blockchain gets altered as has happened many times with other coins.

But you are right, the special thing here is, that thieves will hold an empty bag.
It's just annoying to see people use the completely wrong term to describe something.  Education is good, no?

Then go and learn and read my and other´s previous posts. I am tired to repeat myself over and over again.

And I am annoyed to see people using buzzwords to distract readers. Maybe you should better try this centralization thing again.
68  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][VRC] | VeriCoin | POS - NSDI | VeriBit | VeriSend | VeriSMS on: July 14, 2014, 02:25:11 AM
And FFS... stop calling this a hardfork.  This is a blockchain rollback.  There is a huge difference.

Desperately trying to create new buzzwords? The blockchain gets altered as has happened many times with other coins.

But you are right, the special thing here is, that thieves will hold an empty bag.
69  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][VRC] | VeriCoin | POS - NSDI | VeriBit | VeriSend | VeriSMS on: July 14, 2014, 02:17:52 AM
In your logic there should be no hardfork ever, because it is always a bailout.

If bitcoin hardforks for whatever reason, they do it to protect their coin. It is a centralized decision and they are bailing out themselves. If they would not hardfork, the coin would die. You are advocating this, so please demand it from the BTC-DEVs and the foundation.
You have a horrid sense of logic or understanding of crypto if that was your conclusion.  Hardforks are perfectly valid, specifically when a coin is developing - for security reason, or feature development.  But they should be very very carefully considered.

The key is that this VRC move isn't a hardfork, it is a blockchain rollback for external purposes that are totally unrelated to coin development.

Maybe you understand, that you are contradicting yourself, but I doubt it.
Had the hardforks in BTC protocol not occurred, it would be a dead coin. The BTC-DEVs decided to alter the blockchain and the miners followed through.

I cannot see why you wish thieves to get rewarded and the victims to get punished. The VRC-DEVs considered carefully and rightfully, that altering the blockchain at this point is the best decision for the coin, because it will restore trust in it.

BTW nothing, that happens to a coin is "totally unrelated" to its development.
70  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][VRC] | VeriCoin | POS - NSDI | VeriBit | VeriSend | VeriSMS on: July 14, 2014, 01:46:18 AM
Everything you say is false, misleading or you just keep ignoring the situation.  I can't keep up, but you are not alone.

I stopped responding to people because it is the same thing over and over.  You explain to them what 8 mil coins staking at once would do and they ignore, or they make up their own bitcoin history like you just did Smiley

You take the time to respond, but doesn't make a single worthwhile comment...  Obviously you just have nothing to say of value.

Nothing I have said is false or misleading (and nobody has proven otherwise - nobody has even made an intelligent counter point to anything I've said).  I've made up no history - bitcoin and litecoin have NEVER rolled-back the chain for an external reason like an exchange.

If the blockchain network can't survive this, then the coin doesn't deserve to survive.  A rollback like this is so counter to the very ideas of distributed trust, that it's almost offensive.


In your logic there should be no hardfork ever, because it is always a bailout.

If bitcoin hardforks for whatever reason, they do it to protect their coin. It is a centralized decision and they are bailing out themselves. If they would not hardfork, the coin would die. You are advocating this, so please demand it from the BTC-DEVs and the foundation.
71  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][VRC] | VeriCoin | POS - NSDI | VeriBit | VeriSend | VeriSMS on: July 14, 2014, 01:29:51 AM

Bullshit.  Centralization is the ability to control transactions across the network - revert them or otherwise affect them.

Another brilliant definition of centralization. Seems your definition applies to every cryptocoin protocol.
Show one other example of this in another cryptocoin protocol that's worth its salt (and if you ignore my previous posts about how bitcoin has NEVER done this, then you're even more ignorant then you appear).


Read again his definition, then you will see (maybe).
BTC has never done this, because the thief was a board member of the foundation. Maybe you should read my previous posts, how all these BTC-hacks lead to a shrinking $-volume, because people are scared and tired of the fraudsters winning.
72  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][VRC] | VeriCoin | POS - NSDI | VeriBit | VeriSend | VeriSMS on: July 14, 2014, 01:19:05 AM

Bullshit.  Centralization is the ability to control transactions across the network - revert them or otherwise affect them.


Another brilliant definition of centralization. Seems your definition applies to every cryptocoin protocol.

Maybe the buzzword feeders should discuss their various definitions of centralization first.
73  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][VRC] | VeriCoin | POS - NSDI | VeriBit | VeriSend | VeriSMS on: July 14, 2014, 01:08:07 AM
I'm sorry to the guys who lost coins, but you lost them because of Mintpal and they should reimburse you not the entire blockchain being forked. If Mintpal can't pay then the community shouldn't have trusted so many coins with one exchange. Isn't this a decentralized crypto coin? You can't become centralized when it's convenient to bail out an exchange because it's convenient.
51% attack is BS excuse to fork the coin to bailout Mintpal and all the idiots who trade the coin instead of staking and securing the network.
http://youtu.be/TjL2AgCQDJ0


That video on Peercoin explains why a 51% attack will not happen so it's a bullshit excuse.

Why not be Visa coin and allow chargebacks, and while you're at it have a Vericoin bank and offer Verinsurance

This coin is no longer crypto it's centralized fiat, and this is a sad day for all alt coins. Mintpal is NOT too big to fail. Maybe we should fork the Bitcoin blockchain to bail out Mt. Gox and Mark Karplees  Undecided

This guy gets it. This isn't wall street. Nobody is too big to fail. Oh wait...

Might as well just go back to dollars

No he doesn´t. This is not a bailout. Mintpal could still fail as a business.
It is the thieves, that get their bailout denied.
74  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][VRC] | VeriCoin | POS - NSDI | VeriBit | VeriSend | VeriSMS on: July 14, 2014, 12:53:31 AM
An honest question, how many of you people here mad about VRC investors not getting cleaned out, lost money to gox or other scams?

Why are people so mad that VRC is young, and nimble enough to prevent theft?


Are you all serious? I never thought the community would gang up on the crypto trying to do the right then, when the crypto community should assist the developers in making it a solution that works

Times like this is when crypto can take a big step back, or a leap forward. It seems like many of the people who wish to see crypto succeed come here to see vericoin fail?

VRC did not avoid or prevent a theft.
The theft occurred and has been covered up.
This means the system that made the theft possible has been left uncorrected.

Now with all the bullshit and spin people are trying to act like this is a good thing.
This is not the solution.

Lecky is right.
Don't leave money on exchanges.
Have there not been enough examples already?
With this "fix" I fear people will do the reverse of learning the lesson.
This will just reinforce people using exchanges in this broken way.
It will excuse the exchange and they get a free pass.
This WILL happen again.
What then? Another rollback? Another fork?

In any scam: people who act like it did not occur or try to minimize it to create positive spin are part of the scam.
FUD is bad but mindless support is just as bad.

P.s: once again, I think VRC devs are among the best and I am very sorry they got placed in this situation. I sympathize.

The theft has not been covered up, it has been dealt with in the most effective way.
If you want to continue your rebellion against exchanges, please open a new thread, because it affects every coin and asset.

Is this the effective way that will be used in the future as well then?
Regarding my rebellion against exchanges... you just saw an exchange put the whole of Vericoin in jeopardy.
You just saw them put the devs under a lot of unnecessary strain and create a lot of difficulty.
You just saw them force a very difficult decision.

Don't you think it would be more appropriate to join the rebellion rather than trying to shut me up or move me along?


I only think it would be more appropriate to keep two things separated: 1. exchanges 2. Using the ability of the blockchain to deal with theft.

Nobody is trying to shut you up. Please stop trying to play the victim here.
75  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][VRC] | VeriCoin | POS - NSDI | VeriBit | VeriSend | VeriSMS on: July 14, 2014, 12:34:08 AM
The theft has not been covered up, it has been dealt with in the most effective way.
If you want to continue your rebellion against exchanges, please open a new thread, because it affects every coin and asset.
Bull.  The theft is no longer part of the permanent blockchain ledger.  It absolutely has been covered up.

A cover-up would mean, that the whole affair would have been dealt with in silence, without public knowledge.

The blockchain has been cleansed from crime, that is very different.
76  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][VRC] | VeriCoin | POS - NSDI | VeriBit | VeriSend | VeriSMS on: July 14, 2014, 12:26:09 AM
An honest question, how many of you people here mad about VRC investors not getting cleaned out, lost money to gox or other scams?

Why are people so mad that VRC is young, and nimble enough to prevent theft?


Are you all serious? I never thought the community would gang up on the crypto trying to do the right then, when the crypto community should assist the developers in making it a solution that works

Times like this is when crypto can take a big step back, or a leap forward. It seems like many of the people who wish to see crypto succeed come here to see vericoin fail?

VRC did not avoid or prevent a theft.
The theft occurred and has been covered up.
This means the system that made the theft possible has been left uncorrected.

Now with all the bullshit and spin people are trying to act like this is a good thing.
This is not the solution.

Lecky is right.
Don't leave money on exchanges.
Have there not been enough examples already?
With this "fix" I fear people will do the reverse of learning the lesson.
This will just reinforce people using exchanges in this broken way.
It will excuse the exchange and they get a free pass.
This WILL happen again.
What then? Another rollback? Another fork?

In any scam: people who act like it did not occur or try to minimize it to create positive spin are part of the scam.
FUD is bad but mindless support is just as bad.

P.s: once again, I think VRC devs are among the best and I am very sorry they got placed in this situation. I sympathize.

The theft has not been covered up, it has been dealt with in the most effective way.
If you want to continue your rebellion against exchanges, please open a new thread, because it affects every coin and asset.
77  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][VRC] | VeriCoin | POS - NSDI | VeriBit | VeriSend | VeriSMS on: July 14, 2014, 12:13:45 AM
You have gone nuts man. We are to blame mintpal got hacked? I have heard it all now.

If everyone didn't leave massive amounts of coins on mintpal to day trade with, then we wouldn't be entertaining the idea of rolling back the blockchain. So yes. You're all to blame, whether directly or indirectly, you're to blame.

... along with mintpal for storing 8million coins in a hot wallet.

No exchange, no price and coins with no value. Have to applaud your brilliant accusations against the victims of this theft.  Roll Eyes

I'm saying DON'T LEAVE YOUR COINS THERE. I'm not saying exchanges should cease to exist. Although in fairness, the only exchanges should be p2p exchanges. But alas, one can dream.

Read what you want to read, believe what you want to believe... but don't for a second try to suggest that what I'm saying doesn't make sense.

If nobody leaves coins there, the exchanges will cease to exist. You are right, what you are saying doesn´t make sense.

And this is not about reading or believing, this is only logical. But please go on and throw some more dirt at the victims.

The exchanges would still exist. How can you not see this? Exchanges live off the fees gathered through trading, not from people leaving their coins in exchange wallets. It's REALLY fucking simple:
1) Go to exchange
2) Deposit to exchange
3) Make a trade = exchange gets fees
4) Withdraw from exchange

Everybody wins.

Yeah, great. Never could it happen that within this timeframe your funds get stolen. Again brilliant  Roll Eyes
78  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][VRC] | VeriCoin | POS - NSDI | VeriBit | VeriSend | VeriSMS on: July 14, 2014, 12:09:08 AM
You have gone nuts man. We are to blame mintpal got hacked? I have heard it all now.

If everyone didn't leave massive amounts of coins on mintpal to day trade with, then we wouldn't be entertaining the idea of rolling back the blockchain. So yes. You're all to blame, whether directly or indirectly, you're to blame.

... along with mintpal for storing 8million coins in a hot wallet.

No exchange, no price and coins with no value. Have to applaud your brilliant accusations against the victims of this theft.  Roll Eyes

I'm saying DON'T LEAVE YOUR COINS THERE. I'm not saying exchanges should cease to exist. Although in fairness, the only exchanges should be p2p exchanges. But alas, one can dream.

Read what you want to read, believe what you want to believe... but don't for a second try to suggest that what I'm saying doesn't make sense.

If nobody leaves coins there, the exchanges will cease to exist. You are right, what you are saying doesn´t make sense.

And this is not about reading or believing, this is only logical. But please go on and throw some more dirt at the victims.
79  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][VRC] | VeriCoin | POS - NSDI | VeriBit | VeriSend | VeriSMS on: July 13, 2014, 11:58:46 PM
You have gone nuts man. We are to blame mintpal got hacked? I have heard it all now.

If everyone didn't leave massive amounts of coins on mintpal to day trade with, then we wouldn't be entertaining the idea of rolling back the blockchain. So yes. You're all to blame, whether directly or indirectly, you're to blame.

... along with mintpal for storing 8million coins in a hot wallet.

No exchange, no price and coins with no value. Have to applaud your brilliant accusations against the victims of this theft.  Roll Eyes
80  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][VRC] | VeriCoin | POS - NSDI | VeriBit | VeriSend | VeriSMS on: July 13, 2014, 11:52:08 PM

Exactly and by hardforking the system shows, that it cannot be exploited.
The system of laissez-faire, that you are dreaming of will always be exploited - even if you meet your peers on the street to exchange some coins, what will you do, if they bring a knife to trade with you?

It shows that there are no consequences for the people that made this possible.
Which is why it will happen again.

Mintpal will carry on.
People will still daytrade and leave massive amounts of coin on exchanges.
No solution will be sought because look "we solved the problem.. all you need is a fork!"
The thieves have not lost anything. They did not have anything to start with.

Forking is not the solution. It is a a bandaid on cancer.
It is scooping out water from a sinking ship instead of fixing the hole in the hull.

P.S buy4crypto: if you believe fiat is necessary for the future, then I think we will have to agree to disagree

You do not get the point: The people that orchestrated this were the thieves and they will learn that they cannot exploit the system.

Again you are punishing victims and applauding the thieves.

You are either brainwashed by the scammers´ forum cheerleaders or you are a scammer yourself.
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