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1  Other / Serious discussion / Re: Help spread immunity - hug someone today. on: July 31, 2020, 05:58:13 PM
Its been suspected for quite a while now that covid can mutate fast enough so the concept of immunity is null. Whats not currently known is how much past infection helps prevent reinfection and how long to expect the antibodies you do produce to stick around. There have already been suspected cases of reinfection. People have tested positive and been hospitalized on separate occasions months apart after testing positive for covid19 both times. It can't definitively be claimed yet though, as its possible that the first infection of covid was weakened by the patients immune system, but then regained strength and knocked them down again rather than reinfection.
2  Economy / Collectibles / Re: Nastyshop on: July 31, 2020, 02:58:23 PM
Yeah so I reread the thread, and I think I figured out why I'm confused. OGNasty puts a $ value into a ticker and it updates the price in BTC. It was someone else who claimed the whole, 10% increase in BTC price you made money on the refund statement. Lines are getting crossed here.
3  Economy / Collectibles / Re: Nastyshop on: July 31, 2020, 02:05:14 PM
yes there is

he states that everything is priced in USD but it is not. people that paid in btc were refunded the same amount of btc that they paid not the USD equivalent - that means it is not USD based.

the site needs to be clear - he cant claim one and do the  other and then insult anyone that says anything about it

Yeah, what you're saying is not acceptable and has been the subject matter of many lawsuits, if I'm not mistaken starting with BFL. You pay Bitcoin not USD. The bitcoin just happens to have a USD value which has fewer daily fluctuations than Bitcoin. If you are selling a commodity and don't want to enter into a contract to sell it at 50% under what you paid for it by accident while you sleep because an exchange got hacked or the CEO of Bitcoin goes to jail (  Grin ) you peg your prices in fiat. OGNasty was selling coins for $1750 worth of Bitcoin. If the trade never happens, you're entitled to your Bitcoins, not USD. What you're saying is completely unreasonable. Bitcoin is Bitcoin whether it has a USD value or not. If a trade doesn't happen because he runs out of stock or whatever, his obligation is to make you whole and refund your purchase price. You didn't give him $1750, you gave him $1750 worth of Bitcoin and are entitled to your Bitcoins back, not the fiat equivalent. In 10 years of trading here, I've seen verrrrrry few cases where people have explicitly stated that the transaction would work the way you are expecting it would, and I've seen verrrrrry many scammers try to play this card. It isn't an accepted method of trade by the community.

I'm pondering what the legal implications would be for someone operating the way you suggest OGNasty should have. I'm not certain here, but I believe that would make you an illegal money transmitter. Instead of doing a commodity > commodity exchange, you're exchanging their commodity to USD and would be remitting to them USD then exchanged back to BTC in the event of a refund. Just make purchases with the intention to cancel because you think the price of BTC is going down, and you've successfully shorted BTC.
4  Economy / Collectibles / Re: Nastyshop on: July 31, 2020, 03:46:27 AM
again - it does not say cash value and that is the issue. If it said cash value, yes. If it was how it is now, no.

Yeah, it doesn't seem like there is actually any problem.
5  Economy / Collectibles / Re: Nastyshop on: July 31, 2020, 03:43:32 AM
the only post i saw of yours was talking about my refund - i didnt have a refund as i  didnt purchase - my point is how it is listed, yes because it can affect a refund. and that is my point. Your statement was about me getting a refund. so yes, you missed the point the first time.

Let me pose a question then. Had you purchased a coin, and bitcoin doubled in value between your purchase and when you got a refund. Since it said cash basis, would you have been happy receiving half of your BTC back? That is generally one of the easiest ways to get labeled as a scammer. A handful of people have tried pulling that and its never gone well for them.
6  Economy / Collectibles / Re: Nastyshop on: July 31, 2020, 03:30:54 AM
Righto, I was mixing info from multiple threads. So that makes it easier because I potentially empathized with people who may have needed to fight for a refund for whatever reason.  Who cares if the site states the USD price? If you go to place an order and they're using an exchange rate you don't like, don't buy it. If the ticker was stuck, using an exchange rate you don't like, or whatever else, you could have not bought it and moved on, or requested an updated total, etc. How is it any different from having a sales thread where you say you're selling a camera for $700 and then when someone decides to take you up on it, you look up the BTC price and give them a BTC address and total? There was a thread where OGNasty said they were selling a coin for $1750, so they converted that to BTC and posted it on the site. OGnasty may have used an autoupdating ticker, or maybe done it manually? Regardless, the solution to your problem was pretty minor.




you have missed the point.

in the big picture what it is priced in can and often will affect how you get refunded. Take bitmain for example, you pay them 2600 in btc for a miner based on the exchange at that moment because they price it in USD not btc - they convert it yes. If you get a refund, which is rare - but I did get once - and even though I paid in bitcoin, and was refunded in bitcoin, the amount I got back was based on USD value of bitcoin at that time.

so whether something is priced in btc or usd matters when there has to be conversions.

No, I didn't miss the point at all, I actually posted about that first, but was told that wasn't a concern. People would rightfully crucify OGNasty if they did what you say Bitmain does. If you pay anyone BTC and they don't give you back the same BTC in the event that the trade is canceled, they're a scammer plain and simple, unless there is a very clear and established contract stating otherwise.
7  Economy / Collectibles / Re: Nastyshop on: July 31, 2020, 02:06:46 AM
Righto, I was mixing info from multiple threads. So that makes it easier because I potentially empathized with people who may have needed to fight for a refund for whatever reason.  Who cares if the site states the USD price? If you go to place an order and they're using an exchange rate you don't like, don't buy it. If the ticker was stuck, using an exchange rate you don't like, or whatever else, you could have not bought it and moved on, or requested an updated total, etc. How is it any different from having a sales thread where you say you're selling a camera for $700 and then when someone decides to take you up on it, you look up the BTC price and give them a BTC address and total? There was a thread where OGNasty said they were selling a coin for $1750, so they converted that to BTC and posted it on the site. OGnasty may have used an autoupdating ticker, or maybe done it manually? Regardless, the solution to your problem was pretty minor.


8  Economy / Collectibles / Re: Nastyshop on: July 31, 2020, 12:40:01 AM
Not my thread.  I was just clarifying some things if you read the entire thread. Wink



Yeah I was addressing the OP
9  Economy / Collectibles / Re: Nastyshop on: July 31, 2020, 12:18:09 AM
No offense, but while you may have a valid claim about the refund process, complaining about whether they have their prices set in USD or BTC is kind diluting whatever claims you make. Why does it matter in the slightest whether they have their asking price pinned to USD or BTC? Was there an issue where you paid in BTC and your refund wasn't the same amount in BTC? If I decide to sell a coin and pin it to crude oil, but accept X barrels worth converted to BTC, who cares? Now, if there was an issue where you paid BTC and got refunded a different amount, fair enough.

(I did get my coin I ordered, and I also asked ahead of time before ordering because the thread said that quantities were limited and they updated quantities on saturday)
10  Economy / Collectibles / Re: [Interest Check] Wearable keys on: July 30, 2020, 01:58:22 AM
Ooof, I cut the metal melting time short by too much because I was tired and wanted to turn it off. Bad call. Anyway, will have the updated example likely friday then, possibly tomorrow.

11  Economy / Collectibles / Re: [Interest Check] Wearable keys on: July 28, 2020, 08:20:31 PM
Righto, all prepped and ready to start tomorrow morning, so there should be some result come tomorrow night.

12  Economy / Collectibles / Re: [Interest Check] Wearable keys on: July 27, 2020, 12:16:01 PM
Expecting  the supplies I need to arrive tomorrow. They take ~16 hours to make, so a presentable prototype could be completed by wednesday night.
13  Economy / Collectibles / Re: [Interest Check] Wearable keys on: July 22, 2020, 12:02:20 PM
It's fun, but it's hard to read a public or private key so it's best to avoid the idea of ​​engraving a private key and try to include a smaller version of QR code.
If you want to use silver, it is better to search for adding more anti-oxidant properties because it will make reading the public key difficult.
If you can find a design that combines the three models, it will be amazing.
A QR private key, split into two parts, which will enable the user to spend money if s/he collects the two parts together.

I considered using a QR code, but they'd be much too small to machine even with a laser cutter. Some of the features would be under 1 micro meter. As far as tarnishing goes, inevitably they will tarnish like any other piece of metal. When that happens, cleaning your piece will restore it back to new condition. Tarnish may even make the keys more legible whether you want that or not. There is a product called liver of sulfur that people brush on silver to make it tarnish. The common application for that is people that want to put a rainbow patina on silver coins and charge more for them, or for lettering. If you apply the oxidizer to the text and surface, but only clean the surface, you're left with high contrast black lettering. Thats likely what was used for the QR code sample you pictured. Thanks for your suggestion, I'm really liking the split pair idea.


*Edit* Woohoo, only a minor delay this time. You can't hope for none, so I always just hope for quick and fixable. I went through the process of preparing the wax copy for casting, and I noticed my vacuum chamber was acting a little odd, but continued.






The wax copy came out alright but not fantastic. My vacuum pump isn't pulling a deep enough vacuum and left some air bubbles in the silicone. No big deal, just need to order a replacement part.
14  Economy / Collectibles / Re: [Interest Check] Wearable keys on: July 22, 2020, 02:36:12 AM
This thread really caught my attention. My wedding is within this year and I'm thinking a cool wedding ring that Bitcoin is related because both me and my future wife are Bitcoin enthusiast. Can you make a pair of gold ring with a split private key engraved on each ring?  PM me if this is possible and also the price of it. Cheesy

Yep, shouldn't be a problem. I'll be able to work with you on specifics in a day or two once I've finished my material and concept testing, but I'll shoot you a pm to get the ball rolling and see what you have in mind. I believe I'll be able to do it without any problem, but I'm doing a test run tomorrow just to be safe. I like to run into problems while no one is counting on me not to run into problems. I've made rings before, but manually by pouring metal ingots, rolling it through a mill and making barstock that is cut, fused, and hammered into a ring. I'm trying a different method this time, but as I said I don't expect to run into any problems.
15  Economy / Collectibles / Re: [Interest Check] Wearable keys on: July 22, 2020, 01:03:02 AM
I got the mold made for the test, I should be able to have it done tomorrow night.
16  Economy / Collectibles / Re: [Interest Check] Wearable keys on: July 21, 2020, 04:30:08 PM
So here is the test model I'm about to print and then I'll cast it in a few different metals for testing. Its a size 8 (18.14mm ID) 4mm tall, and 1.75mm thick (the one I printed previously was 5mm tall and 2mm thick and it just felt too big for my liking)





Once I'm certain of what will and what wont work, I don't need to say that anyone needs stealth or anyone needs a certain design. As long as what you want fits and doesn't have any weird geometry issues that'll mess with the fluid dynamics of pouring hot metal, we should be golden. I should be able to put most hand drawn sketches on there, or change the shape/design entirely. Once I've finished the tests, I'll start modeling something a bit more interesting design wise.

Heres some other junk I've made recently (20kt gold) unfortunately it looks like I don't have final result pictures for either of them, that was the pre-polish stage for both so there are still some little scratches visible at magnification  Angry


17  Economy / Collectibles / Re: [Interest Check] Wearable keys on: July 21, 2020, 03:40:19 PM
Love it, any idea on pricing for .999 silver or any other PM's?

thanks!

I don't know exactly yet. I'm going to make my own, record the costs, and go from there. The process I'm using is about the same as what a regular jeweler does, so expect going to a jewelry store and buying a wedding band prices, not Bitcoin collectible prices  Tongue

Making them in .999 silver isn't a problem, but if you plan on wearing it daily, I'd recommend not using .999 silver or 24kt gold as they're soft metals, but I can do it. I've made some vastly superior alloys with much better visuals and strength.

I will make a couple copies out of 24 kt gold and .999 silver to test how much battering they can take without losing a letter of the engraving. There are hardening techniques that help, but I'm not certain to what degree. I'll also throw them in a wood fire for a while to make sure there isn't any deformation before I go ahead and market these as fire resistant.

i would be interested in one at least maybe more - would like to see them in metal first though.

Righto, so the one I have pictured as you can see is resin and not cleaned up properly. It was sort of a letter size/depth test before I make one for myself. Next step is to make a test one for myself out of a few different metals. Like I mentioned to Buck, I'd like to have a better idea of what level of wear and tear these can handle in different metals before I go saying these are vastly superior and more convenient than well done paper wallets. I'll post the test results as well as pictures along the way.

I was hoping something like this would come up  Smiley
Im definitely interested , in fact Id bring looking for a pair - one for myself and one for the good lady wife.
Some sort of key split between the two rings or something ? Any ideas ?

That wouldn't be a problem. The number of characters you can place on the inside/outside sort of depends on the size of the ring, but I can also change around the text font and size to make it fit. You can put whatever you'd like on the inside or outside.

My first thought was to just put a private key on the inside of a wedding band style ring. I'm absolutely not advocating anything illicit, but I've had trouble in the past bringing Bitcoin project related hardware even on domestic flights. Hardware wallets look like obscure electronics, they aren't looking at you like a financial criminal, they're wondering what that tiny little encrypted circuit board is really hiding. A wedding band wouldn't garner the same suspicion. On that note is where I mention the design. The test model I ran is just a sort of boring band. I could deck it out with some neat designs and features, Crypto related or not, but that also may be writing "TARGET HERE!" on it. There will be a ton of options available to people. The size, material, whether you have the public key on it at all, split keys, multisig keys, I'd recommend encrypted so you aren't actually handing me your keypairs. If you really want, I could just put cryptic gibberish on it to trick people into thinking you have a Bitcoin private key  Grin

Love it, any idea on pricing for .999 silver or any other PM's?
Not for nothing, but if you're going to be wearing it you'd be better off having it made out of .925 just to give it some extra hardness.

Theres a .975 silver alloy that uses palladium/platinum and germanium that I highly recommend. Germanium mixed into silver creates a clear oxide layer on the surface, sort of like how aluminum oxidizes. That serves as a barrier that helps to prevent the silver from tarnishing the way you're used to when silver. Its about 6x stronger than sterling as well.
18  Economy / Collectibles / [Interest Check] Wearable keys on: July 21, 2020, 12:22:33 PM
Ahoy! I'm in the process of making something I wanted to do for a few years, namely, discrete wearable key pairs. A long time ago, Charlie Shrem had a ring with one of his private keys engraved into it, and I thought that was pretty neat, sort of like an emergency access to some coins just anywhere on the go. I got caught up with the technical details, and dropped it to move onto something else. Anyway, the other day I learned about a new feature in the 3D modeling software that I use that would allow me to get past one of the issues I had with the idea. The other problem I got hung up on was obscuring the keys. I experimented with using a lesser purity alloy to fill in the engraved letters. When exposed to high heat, the metal would melt out, exposing the keys. While its possible, its not really feasible for a number of reasons. Anyway, after trying out this new modeling feature, I decided that fancy security features on the physical side may not actually be needed. A private key could be encrypted before being engraved, it could be a riddle that leads you to the GPS coordinates of where you buried your paper wallets, unintelligible gibberish, or anything else that could be imagined could be put on it. Shrem's ring had his keypair minus one character engraved on the inside for example. I'm confident that a suitable security measure exists to mitigate risk.

Would anyone be interested in something like this? As pictured,  I can currently make them in silver, any karat or color of gold, and pretty soon Platinum. The images below were just a preliminary test to make sure the lettering was sufficient, and that I could put something other than text on it. Its just a standard boring ring, I'll make some more interesting design wise, but for mine I'm personally undecided whether boring and unassuming would be more secure than flashy.


19  Other / Meta / Re: Where do Locked topics on the forum move to? on: July 08, 2020, 01:05:14 PM
Locked topics don't move. If they're locked, no one can post in them (including the owner) but they are still available to read. Either a moderator or thread creator can lock a topic. Threads can also be deleted by moderators, where they are moved to the trashcan.
20  Economy / Collectibles / Re: [WTS] Platinum, Gold, & Silver @ spot on: July 03, 2020, 02:52:12 PM
Righto, I'll shoot you a PM on saturday or sunday and  take a couple if you've got them. If I end up melting them, I'll try to turn them into other Bitcoin collectibles. Decreasing the number in circulation helps out the people that purchased them previously  Grin
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