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15921  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Re: CGMINER CPU/GPU miner overclock monitor fanspeed in C linux/windows/osx 2.0.5 on: September 28, 2011, 11:01:20 PM
I noticed that only one username and pass is used. Does it mean that the power of all 4 cards will be assigned to 1 pool worker?

This!
I have been trying to assign a worker account to each worker. Is it possible?
This only makes all GPU for a single worker:

Quote
cgminer -o http://api.bitcoin.cz:8331 -u user -p pass -w 256 -v 2 -I 8 -d 0 -o http://api.bitcoin.cz:8331 -u user2 -p pass2 -w 256 -v 2 -I 8 -d 1 -o http://api.bitcoin.cz:8331 -u user3 -p pass3 -w 256 -v 2 -I 8 -d 2 -o http://api.bitcoin.cz:8331 -u user4 -p pass4 -w 256 -v 2 -I 8 -d 3


Why exactly would you want to do this?  The ability to run (in my case 6+ GPU) per worker is one of the best advantages of cgminer.

Does having x workers for x GPU gain you anything?
15922  Economy / Economics / Re: why bitcoin is one day 30$ and a other 5$ on: September 28, 2011, 10:53:41 PM
Ever heard of black market or unofficial exchange rates.

You can decree that 1BTC =$10 but if people collectively don't feel it is worth that they will trade it for more or less.


Say you "fix" BTC and it is worth $10 (using a basket of goods).  I make a post saying hey I got 50 BTC and I will sell them for $400 cash.  Guess what I just violated the official exchange rate.

A simple decree is worthless.  Exchanges like MtGox would still exist and they would ignore the decree.

Even in the "real world" fixed exchanges rates aren't backed up by words but but serious $$$$.  The central bank in China dumps massive amounts of yuan onto the market to force the exchange rate to where they have pegged (fixed) it against the dollar.  They prevent speculation by a) a clear policy and b) the firepower of billions of dollars worth of leverage.  Anyone who tries to speculate against the Central bank of China loses.  They either buy too high or sell to low. 

Simple version:
LOLZ.  A decree would be useless.  You can't have a fixed exchange rate without massive liquidity and central bank.  Fixed exchange rate is simply incompatible with bitcoin.
15923  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: I think my 5970 should be working harder than it is. on: September 27, 2011, 09:14:50 PM
410MH/s per core @ 920/300 (except one core which won't go above 900MHz).

It is all about the cooling.  Running 1.125V @50C.

15924  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: which program best to use to see temperature for gpu in windows7? on: September 27, 2011, 09:07:59 PM
GPU-Z because it provides ALL the temp data (including VRM temps).

Have seen lots of people posting "I am having GPU load drop to 92% but my temp is 85C".  Well there isn't one "temp" there are 8 temps and VRM (which isn't shown in cgminer, afterburner, etc) can get very hot (120C hot) and much hotter than GPU core.  When that happens thermal/current protection kicks in and GPU gets throttled until temps are back in line.  Then GPU goes back to 100%, VRM overheats, throttle down to 9x%, back to 100%, etc.

15925  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: Voltage Tweaking, lowering Voltage. Questions on: September 27, 2011, 09:02:31 PM
The voltage setting that you see there, is the core voltage! You can't change mem voltage without a modded BIOS and flash!
An OC at stock voltage is fine! If you can lower your voltage, you can raise your core clock instead!
Yes, lowering the RAM speed does decrease temps a bit!
Lowering the voltage won't damage anything! Though it may introduce instability!
Memory and GPU on a single graphics card utilize a separate Voltage regulator?

Same VRM but multiple output.  This is always the case because RAM & GPU operate at different voltage.

As others have indicated I have found no way to lower voltage (other than an unsupported bios flash).  Even utilities like ATI Overvlot and XFX Overvolting tool which allow undervolting core only have options to RAISE memory voltage.
15926  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: Hash rate swinging a lot on: September 27, 2011, 08:59:19 PM
Check VRM temps.  When load varies like that it could be thermal throttling due to overheating VRM.

A utility like GPU-Z will show you VRM temps.  Note something which only shows a single temp isn't useful.  There are 8 different temps on each graphics card (12 if you have dual GPU card).  The VRM temp (called VDDC in GPU-Z is the one to look at.
15927  Economy / Economics / Re: why bitcoin is one day 30$ and a other 5$ on: September 27, 2011, 08:25:42 PM
No matter how decentralized the bitcoin claim it is, as soon as it connected to existing real world financial system (for example exchange), then it's destiny will be centralization, since in the real world the "free" market is centrally controled by capitalists/banks

I still prefer a fixed exchange rate by peg the bitcoin value to a basket of currencies and commodities such as rice, petroleum, gold etc... This will make it the most stable currency in the world, and get wide adaptation

This very-low-risk property will become the biggest benefit of bitcoin, no one can use market power to change the price, but there is another problem of liquidity, but I think people will realize that no one can have both liquidity and stability at the same time

LOLZ You can't fix an exchange rate without a central authority.  You also can't do it without massive liquidity to hold that fixed rate.

A fixed rate & bitcoin are mutually exclusive.
15928  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Re: AMD Catalyst 11.10 Preview driver - PLEASE TEST! on: September 27, 2011, 05:24:31 PM
Official link:
http://support.amd.com/us/Pages/AMDCatalyst1110Previewdriver.aspx
15929  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: I did it, i shouldve listened to you guys. PSU is dying. on: September 27, 2011, 05:23:31 PM
Solid choice.  It likely will still be powering miners 10 years from now.
15930  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Why can't we group buy fpga and get a discount? on: September 27, 2011, 03:18:42 PM
AVNET is SHI.T, I repeat, AVNET is SHI.T

So who is not shit?  Who has the lowest prices?  How much lower are they then AVNET?  10%? 20%?

On edit: still waiting...
15931  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Spartan6-LX150 board for $250 -- gauging interest for mid-Oct ship date on: September 27, 2011, 03:17:44 PM
Its true its a risky investment, certainly at this point, but once this starts generating sufficient volume I can see prices tumbling. after all, an FPGA is likely cheaper to produce than our highend gaming GPUs.

Most of the cost (60%+) comes from the actual FPGA.  It is unlikely prices will tumble.  FPGA already have economies of scale.  20 million are sold each year.  Another 1K (or even 10K) miners using FPGA isn't going to cause a massive drop in price. Maybe if one of the FPGA developers gets a massive buy order they could cut FPGA & assembly costs by 30%.  Software improvements might squeeze out another 10%-20% out of current gen FPGA but that still only gets us to ~$2/MH installed.

Yes FPGA benefit from Moore's law but so will GPU.  GPU are almost perfectly scalable.  When the process size gets cut in half then you simply double the numbers of shaders, get roughly 2x the performance and the die size (and thus cost & power) remains the same.

I have derailed this thread enough as it is.  To the OP very good work looks promising I just find the false hope of people (not you) pretending away the economic issues of FPGA (and claims of the death of GPU mining) to be naive & frustrating.
15932  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Spartan6-LX150 board for $250 -- gauging interest for mid-Oct ship date on: September 27, 2011, 01:27:55 PM
Once there are enough FPGAs on the network, difficulty will increase and GPUs will become unprofitable or barely
profitable for anyone paying for cooling + electricity [probably most people with more than 4-5 GPUs]. It's a self-fulfilling prophesy.

I often see this quoted but it is nonsense.  Higher difficulty will make FPGA even @ $2 per MH even MORE prohibitively expensive.  Higher difficulty benefits those w/ efficient GPU (like 5970 & 7xxx series) and moderate to low cost electricity the most.

I think you will see a difficulty spike will kill demand for new FPGA not drive it.

Take hypothetical FPGA miner $2 per MH.  150MH = $300 in cost.  Running 24/7/365 @ 15W.
Break even @ current difficulty is 25 months.
Break even @ 30% difficulty increase is 33 months.
Break even @ 50% difficulty increase is 40 months.

Currently today one could buy 5970 for <$500.  Say 3x5970 + powersupply + other components = 2.8GH for $2800.  Running 24/7/365 @ 1000W.

Break even @ current difficulty is 17 months.
Break even @ 30% difficulty increase is 25 months.
Break even @ 50% difficulty increase is 32 months.

Difficulty increases close the gap but even $2 per MH (an impressive improvement) is still undercut by anyone w/ $0.10 electrical costs (or less). I am interested in FPGA but these dire predictions of them killing GPU are simply unwarranted unless cost is closer to $1 per MH installed.

Remember GPU performance per watt won't be static.  The 7xxx series looks to almost double performance per watt (cutting electrical cost in half for GPU miners).  A break even of 40+ months, is a considerable risk as 4 years is long enough for 2 product cycles in GPU world.  The product after the 7xxx series likely won't improve performance per watt (think a repeat of 5xxx vs 6xxx) but the generation after that (lets call it 9xxx series) will be a move to 20nm and bring all the power reduction and performance boosts that a die shrink does.

4 years is a long time.  My comparison above is based on the 5970s.  Soon FPGA will compete against 7xxx series (nearly double the performance per watt) and within 4 years against the 9xxx series (4x the performance per watt).
15933  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: I did it, i shouldve listened to you guys. PSU is dying. on: September 27, 2011, 12:55:23 PM
Why would you recommend Rosewill when the highly rated Thermaltake unit is the same price?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153136

OP this is likely the cheapest powersupply I would feel comfortable using in 24/7 mining.  Honestly I am surprised it is this cheap.  I would consider it a solid price @ $20 higher.  I would pick the Thermltake over the Antec given they are same price.  The corsair unit is solid but also $20 more.  Either one should power a miner solidly for years (both have 5 year warranties too).

Remember mining punishes computer hardware. It puts them in loads and situations that 99.999999999999999999% of computer hardware never experiences.  While the POS powersupply you bought might work fine in a "normal" computer, mining is just brutal and you need equipment that can handle that punishment.  A powersupply that is built to be "good enough" will choke and die on the load mining put on it.  Maybe not on the first day, maybe not even in the first year but eventually it will die most likely due to blown caps.
15934  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Re: Anyone figured out why phoenix slowly degenerates from full load to sine wave? on: September 27, 2011, 12:47:05 PM
If a video card has a thermal throttling circuit, when it overheats it will change its clocks and voltage to lower levels until it reaches normal operating temperatures, and then return to normal.  The silicon doesn't automatically run faster based on temperature.

Not true.  Dynamically changing voltage and frequency is hard to handle and hard to estimate thermal load.  When VRM overheats it simply idles the card for some % of clock cycles bringing average current and thermal output back inline.  Far faster, far simpler, and has far less unforseen consequences than trying to dynamically adjust voltage and frequency.  When current protection kicks in you will see this as a drop in load % (which is actually load average over one second).  If you had milisecond resolution on your graph you would see it as load of 100% then drops to 0% periodically then back to 100%.  That averages out to 99%, 97%, 95%, or 90% over one second.
15935  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Re: Anyone figured out why phoenix slowly degenerates from full load to sine wave? on: September 27, 2011, 12:44:57 PM


Also, if it was getting too hot and throttling back, the clocks would be lowered but the load would not change (99%)



False.  The videocard throttle back LOAD not clockspeed.  Check your VRM temps.  If your VRM isn't getting solid cooling after an extended period of working 24/7 (something AMD never planned on) they will be hitting 110-120 deg when that happen current limit kicks in and starts taking GPU offline for x% of cycles to reduce thermal output.  The throttling seems to vary by cards but happens around 110-120 deg on VRM.  Note this is VRM temp not GPU temp.  A utility like GPU-Z should show you VRM temp (some lower end cards don't report VRM temp though).

Now this may NOT be caused by VRM temp but you belief that thermal throttling will show up as frequency change is 100% incorrect.

15936  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Re: Why doesn't anyone write a way to fake cores? on: September 27, 2011, 12:30:43 PM
I have found jkminov script above to be very effective.  It sets affinity to a single core limiting power consumption.

C:\Windows\System32\cmd.exe /c start /affinity 2 /d  <normal miner command line goes here>

One thing that may be confusing is that the cores are in powers of 2
1 = core 1
2 = core 2
4 = core 3
8 = core 4
16 = core 5
32 = core 6

The reason this is done is for people who want to set affinity to 2+ cores at same time.  For example affinity 3 would set affinity to core 1 & 2.  Obviously we don't want to do that but just be aware of how it works.
15937  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: I did it, i shouldve listened to you guys. PSU is dying. on: September 27, 2011, 12:26:19 PM
Garbage & Garbage.

You seem unwilling to learn the lesson.  My prediction is under the kinds of loads mining creates those new powersupplies go tits up within a year.

In the long run you will end up paying $200+ in cheap powersupplies instead of just buying a quality unit first.

1) Buy a real name brand.  Companies which have to protect their brand otherwise gamers won't buy their high end units.  Neither of those Chinese POS brands has anything to lose.  Nobody with any knowledge buys them anyways.  It would be stupid for them to not sell you a POS.

2) Mining uses a lot of power.  Unless your power is free you should be looking at 80 SILVER as minimum efficiency standard.  Lower efficiency is simply more wasted heat/cost and more thermal stress on the powersupply.
15938  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Has anyone developed something that can shutdown your machine at a certain temp? on: September 27, 2011, 12:21:39 AM
cgminer has built in throttling with customer temps. 

You can set both temp to start throttling and temp to completely shutdown the cards.
15939  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Reliable supplier to pre-order Radeon 7870? on: September 27, 2011, 12:19:40 AM
The leaked docs indicate the 7800 series uses same architecture 6xxx series.  It is only the 79xx cards which will use a new architecture.

The 7800 series is simply put faster, cooler, more efficient versions of current generation.  The 7xxx series also moves to XDR ram and PCIe 3.0 neither of which doing anything for mining.  Well XDR is a slight plus it uses about 1/3 less power which is contributing to the reduced TDP.
15940  Other / CPU/GPU Bitcoin mining hardware / Re: Random shut-downs. Dying PSU? on: September 26, 2011, 09:18:23 PM
How are you sure it isn't overheating?

Most motherboards & powersupplies have thermal protection.  Either one can cut power without warning if they get too hot.
Unless you are tracking temps you can't be sure it isn't overheating.

It is likely (most likely to least likely)
a) overheating
b) faulty powersupply
c) damaged components (the suggestion above to visual inspect motherboard and powersupply for blown components is a good one). 

To help you know what to look for:

Leaking cap


Bulging cap


Blown cap

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