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5301  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: TERRACOIN ATTACK OVER 1.2TH ATTACK CONFIRMD on: July 25, 2013, 04:48:20 AM
Someone got an ASIC working on TRC?

You can use Asic on TRC and others that are sha256D

Off topic but what is up with the "D".  For the first couple years nobody got the hashing algorithm wrong and then recently there has been this poliferation of "SHA-256D" and "SHAW-256".  Once could be a typo, one person multiple times could been someone who is repeating a mistake but multiple people over multiple threads.

It is SHA-2 or SHA-256 (or without the hyphen SHA2, SHA256).
5302  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Miner's Official Coin LAUNCH - NUGGETS (NUGs) on: July 25, 2013, 02:35:58 AM
I wanna give a shout out to my homie and home boy, r3, the man kept his word like a real man and gave me double what he promised, I extorted every worthless coin he had and even what he mined, by making false accusations and running his good name through the mud until he just gave up and in frustration of dealing with a sociopath washed his hands by giving me every last coin.

FYPFY
5303  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Miner's Official Coin LAUNCH - NUGGETS (NUGs) on: July 25, 2013, 02:21:22 AM
Or I could just lite it up right here on this thread but I'm afraid to scare away the "many loyal NUGGETS miners".

Wonders if I should mention that there is only 1.7 MH/s on the network and <6 active nodes.
5304  Economy / Securities / Re: SEC Charges Bitcoin Savings and Trust (BTCST) as Ponzi Scheme on: July 24, 2013, 07:29:06 PM
I've softened my post a bit with some stealth-editing.  The message remains the same, though: Unregistered exchanges servicing US customers are not flying under anybody's radar.  US entities issuing "securities" aren't either.  None of this is "virtual" from the SEC's perspective. An investment is an investment.  Denomination in BTC does not exempt it from such.

What defines a US entity?


It depends on the entity.

For legal constructs (partnerships, corporations, LLCs) it is one which is incorporated in the United States (specifically in one of the States).
For individuals it is US residents (regardless of their citizenship) and US citizens living abroad*
For business entities owned by a single person (sole propreitorships) it depends on the owner's citizenship and residence.

For unincorporated businesses it gets a little more complex because they have no legal basis.  Simply put many of the "companies" listed on Bitcoin exchanges don't exist under the law.  Likely the SEC would use similar rules as those used to identify foreign private issuers:
http://www.sec.gov/divisions/corpfin/internatl/foreign-private-issuers-overview.shtml

The US or foreign status of the entity would depend on material facts (ownership, location of assets, citizenship of directors/officers, listing on US exchanges, etc)



* (Yes I get the unfair treatment relative to other nations but it is what it is)
5305  Economy / Securities / Re: SEC Charges Bitcoin Savings and Trust (BTCST) as Ponzi Scheme on: July 24, 2013, 07:15:34 PM
Please understand that US securities law is very complex:
http://www.sec.gov/divisions/corpfin/internatl/foreign-private-issuers-overview.shtml

simply being a foreign entity alone is insufficient to be excluded from US regulations.

Being a foreign entity owned exclusively by foreigners (non-US residents or citizens), which holds no assets in the US and has never had a trade occur in the United States, has no US directors/officers, and isn't listed on any US exchange would be put the entity totally outside US regulatory system.

For entities not meeting that criteria a lot depends on the details of the company, its owners, its assets, its structure, and its offering.  You are going to need good legal counsel to know if/when/where you cross the line.  The recommendation for seeking counsel is a good idea.  Given that no "Bitcoin stock exchange" has an provision to limit/exclude US residents/citizens any listed asset is at least within the US regulatory regime.  An exemption may apply but it is asininely stupid to say "I am not a US company therefore I am exempt".
5306  Bitcoin / Technical Support / Re: How do I verify 1000 BTC balance? on: July 24, 2013, 05:40:35 PM
I may need to put this in another topic, but I'm not clear on what a "signed message" is.

My understanding is that a message can be included in a transaction, which goes into the block chain. Is this what you are referring to as a "signed message"?

No that is a transaction and you can't (without some really bad hacks) include a message in a transaction at least not in any standardized easy to decode method.

Transactions are not messages.  Messages are not transactions.


Quote
Is there such a thing as a signed message that is not part of a transaction in the block chain?

Signed messages are never part of a transaction and never added to the blockchain.

The client has the ability to sign any arbitrary text.  Once again this has absolutely nothing to do with transactions.
5307  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Miner's Official Coin LAUNCH - NUGGETS (NUGs) on: July 24, 2013, 01:52:48 AM
270999 nugs i've sent. thats everything Vlad gave me and everything i've mined. waiting on Vlad to confirm.

Wow what a dirty bag Vlad is.  Extorting people though lies and FUD to steal coins. 
5308  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Going after Trendon Shavers, Pirateat40, BTCST on: July 24, 2013, 12:54:16 AM
does it matter at all that this ruling was after he did what he did?

No.  This kind of thing annoys me because it creates a defacto run around the prohibition on ex post facto laws.  FINCen guidance is that the regulations ALWAYS applied to Bitcoin even before the creation of Bitcoin it applied to any theoretical virtual currency. The guidance was merely clarification of existing law/regulation.
5309  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Going after Trendon Shavers, Pirateat40, BTCST on: July 24, 2013, 12:22:19 AM

Investors BTC --->  Ponzi ---> His Exchange Account ----> USD in his checking account.


I would imagine the above connection to be hard to prove.

Really?  With the exchange account in his name?  To withdraw $150K would require full KYC and docs.

this.

or pirate would have to claim he got the btc some other way and it was his. like he mined it all back in 2009/2010...   i don't know. seems messy.


Guys the account is in his name sure. Good luck proving the connection with the (alleged) Ponzi though Bitcoins are Bitcoins. In a criminal case Trendon is the accused, he doesn't have to explain how he got the Bitcoins. The prosecution needs to prove how he got it beyond reasonable doubt. IANAL though

But all they would have to do is link him to his pirateat40 account, the lowest charge they can throw at him is an unregistered security.


They still have to prove he received Bitcoins for the investment. (and even then convince the judge this is a value transfer)

Nope the mere offering of unlicensed security is a crime.
5310  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Going after Trendon Shavers, Pirateat40, BTCST on: July 23, 2013, 11:53:57 PM

Investors BTC --->  Ponzi ---> His Exchange Account ----> USD in his checking account.


I would imagine the above connection to be hard to prove.

Really?  With the exchange account in his name?  To withdraw $150K would require full KYC and docs.
To seize assets you require a warrant and that would require proving at least to a judge that there is sufficient cause.

Now if he had kept it all as BTC and sent them to a variety of encrypted and brainwallets that would be a lot harder.  Then again at least according to the press release Pirate was an idiot. I mean he lost the lion's share of what he stole.
5311  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Miner's Official Coin LAUNCH - NUGGETS (NUGs) on: July 23, 2013, 11:35:59 PM
You could probably use the block explorer for that.

That assumes basic knowledge of how crypto-currencies work.  Something vlad lacks completely. I understand why you would be confused as most people would assume that a person launching a coin would have at least the most basic understanding of how it works.
5312  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BREAKING: SEC Charges pirateat40 With Running Bitcoin-Denominated Ponzi Scheme on: July 23, 2013, 11:11:30 PM
The SEC should have deferred to BTCTalk for punishment.  A bunch of fucking idiots who believed 7% weekly returns are a possibility should be happy with their scammer tag above his avatar.  It would be a real shame if all of the fucking morons who threw their bit at such stupidity were able to recoup anything.  

They won't.  Reading between the lines, Pirate lost most (90%+) of the stolen funds day trading.  He siphoned off ~150K BTC of victims funds (~700K BTC deposited, ~550K BTC paid back as withdrawals & interest).  At the time 150K BTC was worth >$1M yet he had trading losses and withdrew less than $150K from the exchange account.  So most of what was stolen is either a)imaginary interest which is never coming back or b) money Pirate lost playing day trader.  

Of the remaining $150K I would imagine he has probably wasted a good chunk of that. Say there is $50K left, remember this was a BTC based scam and the price of BTC has risen 10x to 15x since then.  Today $50K/$100 ea = 500 BTC.   500 BTC out of ~150,000 BTC stolen isn't much of a recovery. 

TL/DR Pirate stole siphoned off ~150,000 BTC and best case scenario the feds might be able to recover 500 BTC (0.3%).  The feds may simply seek in reim forfeiture as the entire operation violated federal law and victims will never see a dime.  Not saying it is fair but honestly we are talking a 99% to 100% loss for investors.
5313  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Going after Trendon Shavers, Pirateat40, BTCST on: July 23, 2013, 11:03:57 PM
Pretty sure in texas they cant take his house. Also this is only the sec and not the fbi.

The sec is trying to get a court order... why not do it first then tell pirate?

Seems like they have a weak case or something. Anyway 150000.... that wont go far even if collected.

yeah, I think it will be hard to get a conviction. Still, I didn't expect the SEC to do anything.

What would be hard about a conviction.  ponzi schemes are completely illegal.  Did he promise investors a return?  Did he pay investors from the deposits of newer investors?

That is really all that is needed. Some financial crime can be very tough to prove but something is either a ponzi or not. 

BTW though the SEC can't file criminal charges that would be the job of the Justice Dept.  Of course the SEC can hand over everything they have to them.

If investments were made in US Dollars it would be far easier to prove he actually received the money, the pseudo anonymity of Bitcoin makes this complicated. Further the legal status of Bitcoin is far from certain. If I make a Ponzi in Eve Online/Wow will the SEC (or the justice department) prosecute me as well?

Well per the press release he deposited 150,000 BTC on an exchange and then lost about half in day trading and then transfered ~$150K worth (USD) into a checking account.    If necessary getting the records of the exchange to obtain his deposit addresses wouldn't be very difficult. 

Investors BTC --->  Ponzi ---> His Exchange Account ----> USD in his checking account.
5314  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Miner's Official Coin LAUNCH - NUGGETS (NUGs) on: July 23, 2013, 10:59:24 PM


That's 3 in 3 days.  Blows my mind.   Not a single person can explain this to me.

Your an idiot.  Look at the DATE.  2 of the "3" have dates PRIOR to your launch. 

Quote
MarkM is gonna say I imagined this one too.

No just like last time Mark is going to point out that unless you went back in time it isn't possible for coins which launched prior to yours to have stolen "your" (luckycoin's) idea.
5315  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Going after Trendon Shavers, Pirateat40, BTCST on: July 23, 2013, 10:50:10 PM
Pretty sure in texas they cant take his house. Also this is only the sec and not the fbi.

The sec is trying to get a court order... why not do it first then tell pirate?

Seems like they have a weak case or something. Anyway 150000.... that wont go far even if collected.

yeah, I think it will be hard to get a conviction. Still, I didn't expect the SEC to do anything.

What would be hard about a conviction.  ponzi schemes are completely illegal.  Did he promise investors a return?  Did he pay investors from the deposits of newer investors? That is really all that is needed. Some financial crime can be very tough to prove but something is either a ponzi or not.  

The uncliensed security issue is even easier to prove.  He didn't register with SEC.  They simply needs to find one or more persons willing to testify that Pirate offered them an investment.  Note the word offered.  Proof that funds exchanged hands or securities were sold isn't even a requirement.

BTW though the SEC can't file criminal charges that would be the job of the Justice Dept.  Of course the SEC can hand over everything they have to them.  If Justice Dept doesn't move it probably has more to do with the small scale then any inability to secure a conviction. 
5316  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Going after Trendon Shavers, Pirateat40, BTCST on: July 23, 2013, 10:47:50 PM
Pretty sure in texas they cant take his house. Also this is only the sec and not the fbi.

It depends.  Was funds from the scam used to make house payments.   If so then more than one district attorney has gone the "procedes of a criminal enterprise angle".  More common to deprive drug dealers of physical assets (that they could use for bail) but who knows.
5317  Bitcoin / Technical Support / Re: How do I verify 1000 BTC balance? on: July 23, 2013, 09:46:44 PM
As others have pointed out the only proof is a signed message(s) and the signed message should be distinct enough that it can't be reused.

Having someone send you a token amount of coins is very weak security.  Someone could simply be acting as a middle man.  He tells a person who really does have 1000 BTC to send him a bitcent as "proof" and then supplies your address.  You see an incoming "proof" transaction which isn't proof of anything at all.
5318  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Litecoin Price to hit $25? on: July 23, 2013, 09:35:58 PM
The amount of gold bullion is roughly equal to the amount of silver bullion.  Is the price of silver roughly the same as the price of gold?

That is an invalid comparison. There has been more than 10x the amount of silver mined compared to gold. Just because a fraction of it is available as bullion does not negate the fact of the amount of the metal in existence.


I updated the post to include a variety of metrics but none come anywhere close to the gold:silver ratio.  Lets go with 10x for mining production, the Silver Gold ratio right now is ~65:1 not 10:1.  

Actually in the last 40 years it has NEVER been as low as 10:1.




Quote
Even so, it is only an estimate, we can not know exactly. But with the cryptos we can know with a much higher precision. Making for an interesting economic laboratory.

However sentiment is affected by estimates.  Yet despite there being really no dispute that by any metric gold is no more than 20x as rare as silver (total historical production  - 20:1, annual production - 10:1, total above ground metal: 5:1, total bullion: 0.5:1) its price has consistently 40x to 80x that of Silver for decades.  

The idea that the cryptocurrency supply is more accurate isn't exactly true.  Generation is very accurate but what matters is AVAILABLE currency and losess are unknown.  How many Bitcoins are still in circulation?  Still the point was that supply alone doesn't determine price.  If it did then the silver:gold ratio would be much lower (no matter what metric one thinks is the most important).
5319  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Litecoin Price to hit $25? on: July 23, 2013, 09:12:30 PM
The amount of available silver bullion (30,000 T) is roughly half that of gold bullion (60,000 T).  Is the price of silver double that of Gold?

Based on these metrics why is the price of Silver 1/65th  of Gold?

Total gold      166,000 T
Gold bullion       60,000 T
Gold Production          2,800 T /annually

Total Silver           777,000 T
Silver Bullion         30,000 T
Silver Production         30,000 T / annually   

Total Silver        4.7x Gold
Silver Bullion       0.5x Gold
Silver Production    10.7x Gold

Gold Price      ~$1300
Silver Price:      ~$20
Gold/Silver Ratio:   65:1
5320  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Question on theory ... on: July 23, 2013, 07:35:29 PM
I say pretend because you can literally print it yourself unlike government fiats.

Well you can't "just print it" there is a cost involved and to be able to make smart decisions you need to make realistic assumptions about that cost.  How many BTCs would you mine todya if it costs you 1.1 BTC to mine one?

Quote
However I will ask you this ... what if most of that hardware is already being ran for 'burn in/testing' purposed on a rotating basis by the companies (namely BFL) selling the hardware.

We know it isn't (or at least most isn't) because difficulty would be much higher.  BFL alone has 200TH/s + of pre-orders.  The exact amount is unknown because not everyone discloses but one can get a good ballpark idea.  If BFL was mining with 200TH/s+ difficulty right now would be at least doubled.
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