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5301  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: FinCEN addresses Bitcoin on: March 19, 2013, 05:20:57 PM
I think the actual creation occurred in 2009 when the Bitcoin Protocol was launched. I would argue that the protocol "creates" the coins, and USA based miners are just claiming them.
It's a point that a hostile regulator or judge would not likely accept.

However someone would have a legit argument if they wanted the cost and complexity of a court case.  A Bitcoin miner can't make any Bitcoin not allowed by the protocol.  The protocol has always allowed only 21M coins.  On day zero there were 21M coins available (for someone with sufficient hashing power).  The protocol decides how and when a Miner will receive a coin (as a subsidy for securing the network).

^ Note the above shouldn't be seen as legal advice.  Ultimately on this or any other issue what matters is what the old guy in a robe thinks, still many judges are logical and a logical argument can be made that Bitcoin miners aren't "creating" coins anymore than gold miners are creating gold.  They are simply "unlocking" them.
5302  Other / Alternate cryptocurrencies / Re: Merged mining for all SHA-256 based cryptocurrencies on: March 19, 2013, 05:17:03 PM
Quote
Bitcoin, Namecoin, PPCoin, Devcoin, Terracoin, Ixcoin, Freicoin

Other than namecoin and Devcoin none of those support merged mining.

Technically Bitcoin doesn't support merged mining but as long as the dependent coin supports it Bitcoin hashes can be used even though Bitcoin is "merge mining ignorant".  From the Bitcoin network's perspective the Bitcoin blocks are hashed as "normal" it just happens that sometimes those blocks (above or below the difficulty target) can be used to solve other chains.  Bitcoin is unaware that the blocks are being used for other purposes.
5303  Other / Alternate cryptocurrencies / Re: Merged mining for all SHA-256 based cryptocurrencies on: March 19, 2013, 05:14:22 PM
How would it be possible to setup merged mining for all SHA-256 based cryptocurrencies at once?

So that one could mine Bitcoin, Namecoin, PPCoin, Devcoin, Terracoin, Ixcoin, Freicoin simultaneously.

AIUI, you can only merged mine two coins at once, and the codebase has to support it.

Incorrect.  You can marge mine an infinite number of coins at once as long as the codebase of the dependent coin supports it.  People routinely do mine more than two coins at the same time.  They don't have much value but it can be done.

5304  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: IMPORTANT: US Bitcoin miners may have to register as Money Services Businesses. on: March 19, 2013, 05:10:43 PM

Well no.  Those are regs on a DEALER of precious metals.  Someone buying precious metals (other than a dealer) isn't subject to reporting requirements.  The reporting requirements are on the dealer.  By your logic USD is currency therefore everyone in the US walking into a coin shop to trade $30 USD for 1 oz of silver is a MSB and has been in violation of the law.
5305  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: FinCEN addresses Bitcoin on: March 19, 2013, 05:02:13 PM
I am preparing an article about this and I have a call into Fincen for clarification.

If you get someone knowledgeable on the phone clarify that a miner exchanging Bitcoins for "real currency" using a broker/exchange registered as a MSB, doesn't itself need to register as a MSB.

i.e. Bob the miner exchanges coins for USD at CoinFort (a registered MSB).  Bob is not registered as an MSB is Bob compliant?  Lets say Bob is running his mining operation as a business but never sells coins to other individuals but only to CoinFort is he still compliant?

5306  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: I am a certified Anti-Money Laundering agent. (AMLCA) on: March 19, 2013, 02:39:18 PM
So are you an private auditor for private sector or a federal agent?

Neither it is like being certified in using Microsoft word.  It is a check the box type certification so a cash handling business can say their employees were trained.  A couple hours of study (online courses available) and a multiple choice exam. 



5307  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: FinCEN addresses Bitcoin on: March 19, 2013, 01:36:58 PM
Now this brings up the states your U.S. registered company does business in, now they want a cut to. So every state you have customers you buy or sell to, you will need to be registered in that state as well, just like good ole paypal.
North Carolina Requires 500k capital <---- They got it posted on the Gas station doors that sell green dot and netspend

Just because FinCEN and states use the same term "Money Transmitter" doesn't mean they have the same definitions.  There is no universal legal definition of anything.  One needs to look at the state statute and see if the definition applies.  This is best done with legal counsel and not by making broad and unsubstantiated claims on the intertubes.

5308  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: FinCEN addresses Bitcoin on: March 19, 2013, 01:32:24 PM
The law only covers those who "create" virtual currency. E.g. Linden Labs for SLL. I don't see how this can cover miners, who are "granted" virtual currency. I think you are drawing conclusions far too soon here.

Quote

c. De-Centralized Virtual Currencies

            A final type of convertible virtual currency activity involves a de-centralized convertible virtual currency (1) that has no central repository and no single administrator, and (2) that persons may obtain by their own computing or manufacturing effort.

            A person that creates units of this convertible virtual currency and uses it to purchase real or virtual goods and services is a user of the convertible virtual currency and not subject to regulation as a money transmitter. By contrast, a person that creates units of convertible virtual currency and sells those units to another person for real currency or its equivalent is engaged in transmission to another location and is a money transmitter. In addition, a person is an exchanger and a money transmitter if the person accepts such de-centralized convertible virtual currency from one person and transmits it to another person as part of the acceptance and transfer of currency, funds, or other value that substitutes for currency.


See my emphasis. This is while not crystal clear but it is difficult to interpret any other way than as bitcoin miners are money transmitters if they sell for fiat. You can interpret it as you like, but what is important is how judges and regulators will interpret it and you can bet they will not be trying their best to bend over in favor of miners, the opposite is more likely.

However, selling for fiat on an exchange is unlikely to make the miner a "money transmitter", because "money transmitting" function is performed in this case by the exchange.


What is bizare is that FinCEN failed to address that obvious exception.  Seems they would have clearly identified that a person selling virtual currency they "created" to an exchange (registered as a MSB) doesn't need to register as an MSB as well. 

We (TC, LLC) will be filing for an administrative ruling asking for clarification on a few points and we have included the one above. 
5309  Economy / Securities / Re: Alert -- FinCEN -- Precious Metals Sales, Shops & Funds on: March 19, 2013, 03:11:24 AM
Quote
As TU.SILVER stocks all the silver it sells, it is now the only legal coin shop in the community.

False. 
5310  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: FinCEN says you must be MSB if you sell bitcoins for $ on: March 19, 2013, 01:59:38 AM
Quote
This guidance addresses "convertible" virtual currency. This type of virtual currency either has an equivalent value in real currency, or acts as a substitute for real currency.

Given that Bitcoin has no equivalent value in any "real currency"  The applicability hinges on the words "substitute for real currency".  It is beyond doubt that virtual "currencies" like Amazon Points or Facebook Credits fall under the guidelines but it is unfortunate that FinCEN didn't provide more guidance on the term "substitute for real currency".  Time to draft another request for administrative ruling.
5311  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: BitFloor Traders on: March 18, 2013, 09:20:35 PM
I'm going to delete this thread at 21:30 UTC.

No you won't.
5312  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Announced $1,000,000 purchase and market influence on: March 18, 2013, 08:56:37 PM
Nobody announces they WILL be buying $1M (future tense).  Case in point we have multiple clients who have bought over $1M to date. No advance notice, off-exchange, no slippage, secured over the course of weeks.  Patient and silent, locking in a solid entry point and the market is no more the wiser.

5313  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: How is Mt.Gox weighted average calculated? on: March 18, 2013, 05:46:13 PM
In the prior x period of time (MtGox weighted average on homepage is 24 hour) take the sum of the USD traded and the sum of the BTC trade.

(total USD traded in prior 24 hours)
---------------------------------- = 24 hour volume weighted average price (VWAP)
(total BTC traded in prior 24 hours)
5314  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Paypal not reversible for Bitcoins on: March 18, 2013, 04:18:25 PM
Not anymore now its better to be the seller and not sell anything.  All the seller had to do was say "Yes I have given him the items" no wallet ID no nothing.  Basically I am hoping to help any other idiot such as myself that believes what is said in these forums to be the concrete truth, because I can tell you it's not.

Doesn't work if the buyer claims he never made the purchase, or it is a genuinely hacked/stolen PayPal account, or it was funded by a stolen credit card, etc.  Plenty of ways for a dishonest buyer to pull a scam.   You didn't know what you were doing and like talking to the cops without a lawyer just backed yourself into a corner. 
5315  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Paypal not reversible for Bitcoins on: March 18, 2013, 04:16:48 PM
You should change your title to "PayPal not reversible for honest people".

A scammer would simply dispute the tx as "unauthorized" claim they never made it and have no idea how it showed up on his/her account.  The scammer would have the funds back by now.  Being honest you just screwed yourself.

This shows why you shouldn't use PayPal (as either buyer or seller) unless you trust the counterparty.  A scammer is going to know every trick and trap and the honest joe is just going to get robbed.
5316  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Color checksum system for fast visual checking that entered address is correct on: March 18, 2013, 03:36:12 PM
Couldn't you just look at the last four digits of the address?*  If the address is valid (and all websites should check and prevent entering invalid addresses) and the checksum is the same then the odds of a typo producing a valid address with the same checksum is about one in four billion.


*Technically you can just look at any four digits for the same effect but it seems that is a more confusing concept to users.
5317  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: [SOFT-FORK] Bitcoin fork "No Forced TX Fee" v0.7.2 avaiable on: March 18, 2013, 04:52:55 AM
I'm not saying we should have NO TX FEE at all. But at the very fucking a least a tx fee proportionate to the input value of the transaction!

The cost in storage, bandwith, and CPU is relative to the number of inputs and outputs not the value of the tx.  A fee based as a % of value would provide no DOS protection. 
5318  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: How are Transactions Selected to Be in Blocks? on: March 17, 2013, 08:37:24 PM
Transactions exist outside blocks.  When you submit a tx to the network it means you submit it to your peers who submit it to their peers who .... every peer on the network is aware of the tx.  All peers have a pool of unconfirmed tx which is called the memory pool.  Miners choose which tx (if any) to take from the memory pool and put in the next block.  When a block is solved it is relayed peer to peer and each peer removes from the memory pool all the tx which are in the block.

So at all times all peers have
a) the blockchain = permanent record of all confirmed transactions
b) the memory pool = collection of unconfirmed tx the peer is aware of
5319  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Coinbase Canceled My Order: Price jumped $28 - $48 (SOLVED: COINBASE HONORABLE) on: March 17, 2013, 07:49:26 PM
LOL! It was an ACH.

Ok that makes more sense, I do not think you can fraud a wire transfer because its a push not a pull, but ACH you can. HOWEVER there is a simple procedure: They should run the ACH, and keep the money in suspense for a week.

The signatory of a personal (but not business) bank account can dispute an ACH transaction as fraudulent up to 60 days from the statement in which the fraudulent transaction was reported.    Keeping funds a week would do little good against "friendly fraud".
5320  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: prepaid debit card? on: March 17, 2013, 03:30:56 AM
https://fastcash4bitcoins.com  can reload any prepaid credit card which accepts ACH (Direct Deposit).
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