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5301  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: BTC Inflation? on: July 29, 2013, 04:44:58 PM
If bitcoins are unregulated, this means that bitcoins are constantly circulating right?  It's not like government money that is constantly tossed while new crisp bills are being made.  Eventually this means that there will be so many bitcoins as they get mined that a single bitcoin will have nearly no value, right?  Or am I missing something?

You couldn't have it more wrong.

Money circulating doesn't create new money. If I have one Bitcoin and I spend it with you, now you have one Bitcoin and I have none. There is no increase in the number of Bitcoins.

Ah, crazy-hazy-money-economics! If I invest one btc in a miner's company, I still own one BTC, but the miner's company also owns one btc ... it's the same with the banks: I give some sum on my account, the bank lends it to another bank, this to a customer, the customer to a friend and so on ... officially the sum remains the same, but for the use of it it's rising.



Yeah no that isn't the case.  You no longer have 1 BTC. You have 1 share of a company which have different valuation, liquidity, and counterparty risk as an ACTUAL BTC. 

In fractional reserve banking when you deposit $x and the bank loans out $0.9x both "monies" are functionally identical.  They all shares the same counterparty risk, the same liquidity, the same valuation.  No store is going to say "hey is this dollar bill the product of a loan deposit or is it unencumbered".   Name me one BTC merchant which accepts shares of mining companies as a equivalence for BTC.  I will wait.
5302  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-07-28 Aftenposten.no: Slik Road has doubled since 2012 on: July 29, 2013, 04:39:41 PM
This article is very interesting. In particular, the small section about the site "Atlantis" peaked my interest. Could it really be the police? Are the police allowed to sell drugs? I thought that they could only pretend to be interested in buying them in order to catch dealers.

At least in the US the courts have found that the police can use deception, lies, trickery, etc to catch criminals.  Undercover police officers pose as prostitutes so posing as a drug dealer wouldn't be materially different.
5303  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [ANN] GAS Coin is now dead. r3wt snuck in a premine and scammed the community on: July 29, 2013, 04:35:28 PM
Is there any reason you guys don't just use an existing coin, that already has an established userbase and secure network, to trade for gas cards?

Because obviously fungibility of a currency is a stupid idea.  I mean it makes so much sense to have SexCoin for buying sex, and GameCoin for buying games, and Casino coin for buying Casino chips, and GoldCoin for buying Gold, and WeedCoin for buying Weed (I guess so you can ruin your neighbors lawn), and GasCoin for buying Gas.  A large single well supported currency for buying sex, porn, games, casino chips, gold, weed, gas, and countless other products and services?  Are you off your meds again?  That would almost be the start of an economy or something.  



 
5304  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is bitcoin 2 coming out next month? on: July 29, 2013, 04:31:50 PM
To answer the question (serious or not, some may not understand), we normally use base 10 ...

All number systems are base 10 if you think about it.  The word "base 10" is horribly ambiguous for meaning base-ten.  Smiley





5305  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [ANN] GAS Coin is now dead. r3wt snuck in a premine and scammed the community on: July 29, 2013, 04:15:09 PM
I know there are a lot of naive people in the world, but ~$40 to make a client and launch a coin?  I know the ONLY way I'd ask that little is if all I had to do was take the existing source code and then search and replace the names and maybe do 1 or 2 tweaks.

What do you think 90%+ of the launched coins are.  EXACTLY that.  Hell most of the time they don't even modify everything that needs to be modified.  They use the same alertkey as LTC, they don't change magic numbers so nodes running multiple blockchains end up confused spamming LTC blocks into xCoin network for example.  Hell in some coins they don't even change user facing strings so some error messages or confirmations will say "Litecoin".

To date there has been very little innovation in the alt-coin space:
LTC, PPC, Freicoin (I think it is a stupid idea but it is at least innovative), Powercoin.  That is about it.  Everything else has been copy, replace, tweak, launch.
you forgot primecoin

Fixed I meant primecoin not powercoin.  So many stupid names nearly impossible to keep it straight.
5306  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [ANN] GAS Coin is now dead. r3wt snuck in a premine and scammed the community on: July 29, 2013, 04:12:22 PM
I know there are a lot of naive people in the world, but ~$40 to make a client and launch a coin?  I know the ONLY way I'd ask that little is if all I had to do was take the existing source code and then search and replace the names and maybe do 1 or 2 tweaks.

What do you think 90%+ of the launched coins are.  EXACTLY that.  Hell most of the time they don't even modify everything that needs to be modified.  They use the same alertkey as LTC, they don't change magic numbers so nodes running multiple blockchains end up confused spamming LTC blocks into xCoin network for example.  Hell in some coins they don't even change user facing strings so some error messages or confirmations will say "Litecoin".

To date there has been very little innovation in the alt-coin space:
LTC, PPC, Freicoin (I think it is a stupid idea but it is at least innovative), Powercoin Primecoin.  That is about it.  Everything else has been copy, replace, tweak, launch.

Now I am still not sold that these coins will be successful.  For example I don't think merchants really care which POW is used as long as the network is secure.  However all these coins required a little more work than copy, paste, tweak, and launch.
5307  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: BTC Inflation? on: July 29, 2013, 07:33:43 AM
Bitcoin is regulated.  The protocol is regulated by math, algorithms, and cryptography.  I trust that kind of regulation far more than gubbermints made up of fallible humans.

The rate of new generation (and thus inflation) is tightly controlled by the protocol with the rate of new coins in each block being halved every 210,000 blocks.
5308  Economy / Economics / Re: What if a government just buys up all the bitcoins on: July 29, 2013, 06:21:26 AM
As I understand it, there's roughly 11 million BTC in "circulation". Assuming $100 per BTC, that's
just a bit over $1 billion. The total sum doesn't seem all that daunting for the US, or several
other governments. Even Warren Buffet could do that, though he'd almost certainly laugh if you
suggested it to him.

I don't think you understand how market prices work.  $1B wouldn't buy 11M BTC.  It wouldn't even buy 2M BTC.  The current price is merely the last trade it offers no guarantee that ANY coins are available at that price much less 11M of them.

5309  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is bitcoin 2 coming out next month? on: July 29, 2013, 06:12:26 AM
01 = 1
10 = 2
11 = 3

If 01 + 10 = 11 = 3,
Then why doesn't 01 + 11 = 12 = 4?

Are you joking?  It is hard to tell.
5310  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Paying to Reduce Mining Diffuclty? on: July 29, 2013, 06:05:20 AM
Yeah difficulty doesn't work that way.  It is hard to understand what you are trying to accomplish but when you just start making up new meanings for words like "difficulty" it is hard to take is seriously.

If difficulty is cut in half without an equal reduction in hashpower, it will be twice as easy to find a block and thus in the long run blocks will be found twice as fast.  If in any interval twice as many blocks are found then the average time between blocks has to be reduced in half.
5311  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Paying to Reduce Mining Diffuclty? on: July 29, 2013, 04:44:31 AM
Difficulty is what keeps the time between blocks at 10 minutes per block for given hashrate.  Right now if Bitcoin network had the same hashrate but half the difficulty the time between blocks would be 5 minutes not 10.


For a given hashrate you can't halve the difficulty and have the time between blocks remain that same.  To think that shows a complete lack of understand of how bitcoin mining works.

Difficulty is merely an artificial value to match the frequency that hashes are found to the desired timeframe between when blocks are found.
5312  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Paying to Reduce Mining Diffuclty? on: July 29, 2013, 04:33:59 AM
This thread doesn't make sense. There are too many misconceptions and illogical math at work.

This. Not sure if the OP failed elementary school math or was just drunk.

Bitcoin @ full difficulty = block worth 25 BTC every 10 minutes.  144 blocks per day.   25*144= 3,600 BTC of inflation a day.
Bitcoin @ 50% difficulty = block worth 12.50 BTC every 5 minutes.  288 blocks per day.  12.50 * 288 = 3,600 BTC of inflation a day.
5313  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is bitcoin 2 coming out next month? on: July 29, 2013, 03:29:32 AM
Is bitcoin 2 coming out next month?

No.

Everybody knows eleven is my favorite number, so if there was going to be a major release of bitcoin it would be "Bitcoin 11".  But it ain't gonna happen.


Only 11 kinds of people in the world, those who can count in binary and those who can't  Cheesy

So what's the third type of people?  (you said there were 11)

11=2 in binary

Really?  Not in any binary I know.
What is 1, 2, 3 in binary?
1 =
2 =
3 =
5314  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Miner's Official Coin LAUNCH - NUGGETS (NUGs) on: July 29, 2013, 03:26:18 AM
You need to know why things are done. Just like my toothpaste example, you need to know what toothpaste is and what it is for if you're going to found a toothpaste company, and the same is with creating a coin.

That's easy, toothpaste is a ponzi scheme that is going to explode after the toothpaste ETF and everyone is going to want their own tooth paste brand, so we need to get into the market now.

Also make sure the toothpaste expires in 2-3 years because everyone knows the government is going to take over toothpaste anyways but it doesn't mean you can't get in at the ground floor of the toothpaste ponzi and dump your worthless tubes on suckers before the government shuts it all down.
5315  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: CPU friendly Altcoin in development on: July 29, 2013, 12:31:03 AM
Why not use Scrypt as intended.  Scrypt with default variables has beyond horrible performance on GPUs.  Litecoin developers modified it to make it roughly 128x less memory resistant (using only 128KB total).

Generally rolling your own crypto ends badly.
5316  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Underaged gambling with bitcoin? on: July 29, 2013, 12:08:17 AM
Just wondering, would underaged gambling with bitcoin be illegal? It would be the same concept as using regular play chips, except using bitcoins, and both are not considered "legal" tender. Would this fly?

Poker chips used in casino's aren't legal tender BTW so "legal tender" has no real bearing, I don't think a single gambling statute anywhere would be so restrictive to define "gambling" as only involving legal tender.  As for legality there is no universal global all people covered law, so it depends on what law and where.  Most gambling related statutes are wording to cover "for value".  Bitcoin has value, gambling with Bitcoin would likely be covered.  

Look at it another way if casinos are prohibited in your town do you think if you opened a casino which only exchanged chips for gold would be accepted (just happens to be next door to a gold dealer who both buys and sells bullion).
5317  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] [QRK] Quark | Super secure hashing | CPU mining on: July 28, 2013, 10:30:30 PM
It is underpriced in that it generally costs more to make QRK than it sells for, but I think it's a PnD that's already on it's death throes due to lack of support from merchants or any use.

How much does it cost a botnet to produce 1 QRK?  Remember stolen computing power and stolen electricity = 0.0000.  CPU coin = botnet coin.  Whatever you can produce with a single CPU the average botnet can produce 10,000x as much at near 0 cost.  It never had a future.
You do realize it's possible to do the same with GPU's?
Utilize the GPU of every PC that is part of the botnet?
I mean a company already did it with bitcoin within their software (too lazy to google now)..

Agreed GPU raises the barrier slightly and botnet herders tend to go for the low hanging fruit.  The issue of GPU botnets will only get worse in the future.  Most low end systems now come with relatively (at least compared to prior northbridge based integrated video) powerful "on die" GPUs (GPU is part of CPU).  Both Intel and AMD latests on die GPU are OpenCL capable.  The threat isn't so much a botnet acquiring hundreds of high end systems as zombies but a botnet acquiring tens of thousands of openCL capable "on die" GPU based systems.


While relatively low powered (50 KH/s compared to a high end GPU being 400 KH/s or more) a botnet will make up for it with thousands or tens of thousands of units.  It will take some time but it is inevitable.
5318  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] [QRK] Quark | Super secure hashing | CPU mining on: July 28, 2013, 10:19:34 PM
It is underpriced in that it generally costs more to make QRK than it sells for, but I think it's a PnD that's already on it's death throes due to lack of support from merchants or any use.

How much does it cost a botnet to produce 1 QRK?  Remember stolen computing power and stolen electricity = 0.0000.  CPU coin = botnet coin.  Whatever you can produce with a single CPU the average botnet can produce 10,000x as much at near 0 cost.  It never had a future.
5319  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Newbie Trying to Figure out Longevity of Mining on: July 28, 2013, 08:21:45 PM
Butterfly labs demo on Youtube shows 5.5 GHash/s @ 32 watts for the Jalapeno.  USBminer Sapphire is  330 Mhash/s @ 2.6 watts.  Those two devices are based on the same transistor process so power comsumption should be very close.  That being said, you forgot to consider the price which is the other variable that matters and in this case matters the most.  Even if Asicminer lowers the price to .7 BTC it is still 3 times the price of the Jalapeno per Mhash.  By all means though, feel free to buy up all the USB miners you like - drive up my share value.

The price on USB miners is 0.6 BTC (0.45 BTC in bulk).  Still a USB miner may never pay for its cost of capital but I would point out that IF true then a NEW Jalapeno purchased today is a far far far worse ROI%.  I mean if you buy a USB miner today you can probably start mining next week.  If you buy a Jalapeno today what is the fastest you would predict you would receive it (even being naively optimistic)?  3 months? 6 months? More?  What do you think difficulty will be in 3 months? or 6 months?

Using price per MH/s is incomplete. What matters is price per (MH/s) * (difficulty).  If two units are shipping at the same time then difficulty becomes a constant however if one unit can start mining at difficulty X and the other can't start until difficulty 2x then for all intents and purposes its effective price (when normalized by starting difficulty) is double.  The reality is the vast majority of BFL gear will never break even no matter when it was bought.  Many people bought Jalapenos over a year ago at a cost of 30 BTC or more.  Even if they were the first one delivered they will NEVER recover 30 BTC by mining.
5320  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Why are people cheering that ASICMINER will bring 800-1000TH online this year? on: July 28, 2013, 07:50:47 AM
If you own 20% of the network, and you double capacity while no one else does anything, you only you go from 20% to 33.3%, not 40%. So the cost relative to the share goes up as you try to increase your share.

This.  The cost is relatively linear.  Electricity is perfectly linear, chip costs are nearly linear because as total production volume increases the % that is the fixed NRE declines.

So hypothetical numbers. 
ASICMiner has 40TH/s.  Network is 200 TH/s. 
Cost = X Network Share = 40/200 = 20% Revenue Share = 20%.
Revenue Share per unit of cost (X) = 20%/1 = 20%

ASICMiner adds 40 TH/s.
ASICMiner has 80TH/s.  Network is 240 TH/s.
Cost = 2X Network Share = 80/240 = 33% Revenue Share = 33%.
Revenue Share per unit of cost (x) = 33%/2 = 16%

ASICMiner adds another 80 TH/s.
ASICMiner has 160TH/s.  Network is 320 TH/s.
Cost = 4X Network Share = 160/320 = 50% Revenue Share = 50%.
Revenue Share per unit of cost (x) = 50%/4 = 12%

Each doubling of capacity produces less revenue for the same amount of cost. 

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