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5421  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Miner's Official Coin LAUNCH - NUGGETS (NUGs) on: July 22, 2013, 10:14:45 PM
Guys I'm hungry now

See it already worker.

<D&T opens second browser to buy McDonald's stock ... I am going to be an early adopter>

5422  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [NUG] - Nugget Bounty Thread on: July 22, 2013, 10:09:22 PM
Using something from the block you are making as well as from the previous block means you can mine harder to try for a winning block.

Just keep changing something to get a different merkle root until you get one that makes your block a winning block. Spend enough computing power on it and maybe all blocks will be winning blocks!

-MarkM-


Yeah, that's basically mining.
But the process would delay your block too much to hope it being the first accepted block.
That could be a nice race to watch.

Well no it would be trivial to exploit.  Say the odds of hitting a lucky/super/gold/handOfGod block are 1 in 10,000.  You could just keep constructing merkle trees (by changing the coinbase) until you found one which was a "winner".  It would take on average 10,000 attempts.  A good CPU can do that in a fraction of a second.  

Essentially someone would release an optimized miner and all blocks (as in 100%) would get the super rate.  The advantage of using the prior block is that it is something you can't control.  Even that however does allow a large pool (say one with 20%+ of hashing power) to "cheat" unless the odds vs the "bonus" are high enough that it really has no material increase in overall reward.
How is changing the coinbase any different from changing the nonce? In both cases you have to compute a new hash.
So yes of course you could keep constructing other merkletrees but finding one which makes the block hash (i) below the target and (ii) complying with the super block rule would take 10,000 more times than just (i). So by the time you found the super block you would be 10,000 blocks behind the blockchain.


Um you are forgetting that one can use the same coinbase multiple times.  You wouldn't find a "winning" coinbase/merkle tree and then try one hash and throw it away.    It takes a lot more than 10,000 hashes to find a block on average.  Say at 1,000 difficulty it would require 4,294,967,296,000 (2^32 * 1,000) hashes to find a block and that block has a 99.999% chance of being the base coins.  Now why wouldn't you just calculate an additional 10,000 merkle trees (a million hashes at most), throw away the ones which don't produce a super block and only use the "super" merkle trees.  It will still take you 4,294,967,296,000 hashes to find a block but when you do it will be worth 250x as much.  

You are adding <0.001% additional work and getting 250x as many coins.  Nobody would mine any other way.   If it didn't happen initially it would as difficulty rises.  The number of coinbase calculations required to find a "super" merkle tree remains the same however the number of total hashes necessary to solve a block rise linearly with difficulty.  So the profit from the exploit would rise with difficulty. 
5423  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Miner's Official Coin LAUNCH - NUGGETS (NUGs) on: July 22, 2013, 10:02:40 PM
Ok, but I'm at lest I'm  trying to add features while most 2 so for just straight up cloned up coin.
Wtf is happening?
You ALWAYS said that features are worthless for a coin to succeed

The true feature is the name. In this case, people like chicken nuggets, right? So people will have a hankering for these coins, because they are called nuggets!

Seems legit enough to me

Enough to build a global economy on it.  Plus the developer doesn't need a pre-mine he can just take out a mortgage on his house, put all the money into stock options on McDonalds and profit from NUGGETS.  When everyone is using NUGGETS and saying NUGGETS all day long can you imagine how many people will have a subconcious instinct to eat some delicious McDonalds chicken nuggets?  I mean McDonalds will probably become the exxon in the global NUGGET god number economy.
5424  Economy / Economics / Re: Detroit Becomes Largest U.S. City To File Bankruptcy on: July 22, 2013, 09:56:39 PM
Is anyone really surprised by this?  Detroit has been a ghost town for years.  You can buy actual houses there for $5,000, but why would you want to?  People strip the houses for copper there and probably get away with it.  The city has been abandoning large portions of what used to be part of the city just because a) no one lives there any more and b) it can't afford to keep them up.

The only thing that surprises me about this is that it took them this long to declare bankruptcy.

This.  Pictures don't lie.

http://www.mackinac.org/images.aspx?ID=7453#1961

The simple fact is Detroit has high property taxes and a 2.5% income tax, while none of the suburbs have any income tax. So anybody who earns income has an incentive to move out of the city, and the only people left are the ones who don't earn any money. Having a city full of unemployed people is a recipe for disaster.

Wow, what brainiac came up with that taxing strategy?  Cheesy

Governments (all governments) are addicted to your money.

It generally starts like this. Government has a "reasonable" (or at least one accepted by populace) tax rate.  Boom years come and govt doesn't save that excess tax revenue, or pay down debt, or lower rates to assist economic expansion.  No more money means only one thing = MORE MONEYZ TO SPEND!!!!!!!.  Some govt will actually not only spend the surplus loot pouring into coffers but then BORROW even more on top of the peaking tax revenue.  However they get use to this level  of expenditure.  Rather than see it as a windfall it becomes the new baseline.  Never mind that 10 years ago they govt got along fine with half the revenue this is now the absolute minimum that is "necessary" to keep the govt running.

Then the lean years come.  Same rate on less property and income means less tax revenue.  Why is the government going to do?  Cut spending?  HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND MAN?  The govt is "barely" surviving on the old tax base (no longer seen as a windfall it is the baseline) many in the govt had already planned to increase taxes or borrow more but this fall in revenue well that means there is no choice.  So rates go up and people leave (or recession continues) so what is the "only" option?  Obviously rates need to go higher and higher and higher and higher and higher.

Chicago is just excessively corrupt.  The exact same thing is happening at the federal level right now. 
5425  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Miner's Official Coin LAUNCH - NUGGETS (NUGs) on: July 22, 2013, 09:48:27 PM
Ok, but I'm at lest I'm  trying to add features while most 2 so for just straight up cloned up coin.

What new features?

Lucky/Lottery/Super/Golden/HandOfGod blocks? already been done.
Stupid premine?  Already done.
An almost bit for bit copy of an existing coin with a few paramters changed?  Already done (countless times).

Quote
There's a .25 BTC for the fix it sounds like a cut and paste issue can you fix it please?  It would benefit the miners more than me since I can't mine it and I have no coins. 

Adding random block rewards won't even help the few miners who haven't jumped ship.  It simply makes the reward more random and solo mining is ALREADY highly random.


Quote
Help me out of you can and if you can lock it up so these scammers can't copy it it would be better cause I Guarsntee they're just pump and dump or else why not add just one new feature its actually fun.

Still don't get the concept of open source do you.  Anyone can copy the code.  Hell that is how you got your scamcoin.
5426  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: BIG difficulty jump coming on: July 22, 2013, 09:41:42 PM
And if no one do not buy new hardware, nobody wants bitcoins and bitcoins price reduce. Now everyone usually buy bitcoins for new hardware. More hardware you have more difficulty you increase and you have buy more and more hardware. But if everyone stop buy new hardware where to put bitcoins? bitcoin price will 0 $ ;/

Um no.  Bitcoin is more than mining. 
5427  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Piper Paper Wallet - Why are there no replies??? on: July 22, 2013, 09:40:53 PM
The killer flaw IMHO is the printer is a heat transfer printer.  As anyone who has seen a paper receipt fade knows those are horribly unreliable for stability.  Expose them to too much light or heat and you will ruin the image. 

That is true. I'd rather see a different kind of printer in this thing but for that problem there are existing (easy) solutions (see above).


Well I don't consider those solutions either easy or good.   Someone who has an offline computer and scanner could simply use that computer for storing coins.  Someone who puts private keys in a digital camera is very likely to accidentally upload them to a computer.  Worse more and more for many people the cellphone is the most common digital camera.  I doubt many people will use their instant-one-button secure printer and then go find a copy machine to make a lasting copy.

No the most common scenario is someone prints out a keypair, puts it away and when they check months or years later the key has faded and all coins are lost.

If you think about the target audience it is going to result in lost coins.
5428  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Miner's Official Coin LAUNCH - NUGGETS (NUGs) on: July 22, 2013, 09:37:49 PM
Come on you know in "Vlad-land" all other communication is simply a setup for him to write a three paragraph lecture on how is awesome.
5429  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [NUG] - Nugget Bounty Thread on: July 22, 2013, 09:35:49 PM
Using something from the block you are making as well as from the previous block means you can mine harder to try for a winning block.

Just keep changing something to get a different merkle root until you get one that makes your block a winning block. Spend enough computing power on it and maybe all blocks will be winning blocks!

-MarkM-


Yeah, that's basically mining.
But the process would delay your block too much to hope it being the first accepted block.
That could be a nice race to watch.

Well no it would be trivial to exploit.  Say the odds of hitting a lucky/super/gold/handOfGod block are 1 in 10,000.  You could just keep constructing merkle trees (by changing the coinbase) until you found one which was a "winner".  It would take on average 10,000 attempts.  A good CPU can do that in a fraction of a second. 

Essentially someone would release an optimized miner and all blocks (as in 100%) would get the super rate.  The advantage of using the prior block is that it is something you can't control.  Even that however does allow a large pool (say one with 20%+ of hashing power) to "cheat" unless the odds vs the "bonus" are high enough that it really has no material increase in overall reward.
5430  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: BIG difficulty jump coming on: July 22, 2013, 09:18:36 PM
Update: would ASICMiner mine at a loss if mined bitcoins don't cover the electricity costs?

Unlikely they would mine at a loss.  Once hardware is paid for it is a sunk cost.  Turning off your rig doesn't get you the hardware price back.  The ongoing cost is just electricity.  ASICMiner chips are pretty efficient (MH/W).  For ASICMiner to be operating at a loss difficulty would need to be 50x higher.  Of course if difficulty is 50x higher then lots of other people are operating at an even larger loss.  That would include anyone not using an ASIC and anyone with an ASIC and above average electrical costs.  When those people shut down difficulty would decline.

Now massively higher difficulty hurts ASICMiner (and BFL and Avalon) in a different way.  If difficulty makes deploying NEW HARDWARE uneconomical then people won't and that means no (or greatly reduced) new hardware sales.
5431  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Miner's Official Coin LAUNCH - NUGGETS (NUGs) on: July 22, 2013, 09:10:41 PM
Show me scrypt coins without PoS.  thanks.  Cause I was talking about scrypt, since my coin is scrypt.

Um how about all of them except 2 or 3.  PPC, Novacoin? maybe one or two others.  PPC uses SHA not Scrypt but it was the first to explore PoS to secure the network.  Novacoin was the first to combine PoS & Scrypt.  There likely are one or two clones but that is is.

For example neither LuckyCoin (the coin you cloned almost bit for bit), nor Spots (the working non-crazy version of Nuggets) use PoS.  You are aware PoS is "Proof of Stake" right.  And of the hundred or so scamcoins only a tiny few use Proof Of Stake.

Proof Of Stake isn't used to "stabilize" a coin (whatever the fuck that means).  Proof of Stake is an ALTERNATE to Proof of Work and both are used to secure a coin against double spending attacks.
5432  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Miner's Official Coin LAUNCH - NUGGETS (NUGs) on: July 22, 2013, 09:08:25 PM
The noodle guy (jack jack) was saying new small miners spend $5,000 to start.

What the hell? Please quote my post


I said I spent $1700 for a new dual GPU rig and was making about $1.30 per day after electricity mining LTC.

And you called me bad or stupid meaning small miners were maiming much more which could only mean small miners must be spending at least double and even at double its peanuts so that means at least $5,000.

Unless of course you think a small miner can get 2 gigs hash out if a $1700 new rig which is a launch cause the best is 800mh which is still peanuts for LTC.

Don't lie now, the subject was LTC and you said it saved the small miner snd I said The small miner needs at least $5,000 to make anything decent off LTC and that's just not possible.

Now lets see you spin that shit logic into gold.

No smaller miners who actually take a second to become EDUCATED don't spend MORE MONEY they spend the same amount (or less) SMARTER..  $1700 for a dual (low end) GPU rig is idiotic.   Cheapest sempron Processor, 2GB or RAM, $5 USB drive for storage, motherboard matching the number of slots you can afford is all you need.  THEN spend all the the rest of the funds on HIGH end GPUs and buy a PSU which delivers enough power.

You just bought a bunch of expensive random crap and then threw a temper tantrum when it didn't work.  Just like everything else you don't LEARN, you don't READ, you don't PLAN you just flail around mindlessly and expect to reap a fortune.
5433  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Miner's Official Coin LAUNCH - NUGGETS (NUGs) on: July 22, 2013, 05:17:15 PM
The quality of the posts in Vlad's threads can be measured by how many times he said he was going to bed before actually doing it, and by how many days he said he was going to take off.

The sleepless hours are a good indicator too.

Actually I think he is a time traveler because he obviously never lies and he took 87 days off and went to sleep 420 times in the last 5 days.  The only scientific explanation is God told him how to build a time machine.
5434  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Miner's Official Coin LAUNCH - NUGGETS (NUGs) on: July 22, 2013, 05:11:33 PM
And your coin was a Luckycoin clone, With "God's numbers" and the letter "V" added.  Oh and it didn't work.

FYPFY
5435  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Piper Paper Wallet - Why are there no replies??? on: July 22, 2013, 05:06:33 PM
The killer flaw IMHO is the printer is a heat transfer printer.  As anyone who has seen a paper receipt fade knows those are horribly unreliable for stability.  Expose them to too much light or heat and you will ruin the image. 
5436  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: FinCEN on: July 22, 2013, 05:02:33 PM
Can an individual (non-miner/or miner dealing with coins not mined) in the USA, buy & sell bitcoins on an exchange without needing to register with FinCEN? I still haven't found a clear answer with this question.

Per FinCEN guidance I already answered.  If it is done infrequently and not for profit then that exemption applies otherwise registration is required for ALL exchangers.

Now is FinCEN going to send storm troopers to break down the door of every unregistered Jalapneo owner?  No.  That is the problem with poorly written guidance.  If the guidance as written won't be enforced then what will be enforced (i.e what is the "defacto line")?  Who knows.
5437  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Miner's Official Coin LAUNCH - NUGGETS (NUGs) on: July 22, 2013, 12:00:59 PM
This looks like a long thread. How high is the comedy value? Is it rewarding to read it? Can someone give me a summary?

It could be a manual for how not to launch a coin.
5438  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: ASIC resale value on: July 22, 2013, 11:12:00 AM
THis is why I do not understand why ASICMiner sells for so much.  All their inventory once replaced by newer ASICs becomes nearly worthless.  And the dividend is fairly small.

Nobody buys a share in a company for their inventory.  Nobody buys shares in Apple because they want 1% of Apple's office furniture.  ASICMiner has shown the ability to delivery AISCs in high volume.  Something nobody else has done to date.  Eventually more efficient processors will be produced however have you considered

a) more efficient processors don't instant-obsolete existing ones.  An ASIC on a smaller process in theory will have roughly double the efficiency (MH/$ and MH/W).  In reality it is much less maybe closer to 150%.  That doesn't make existing chips unprofitable .... just less profitable.

b) given ASICMiner's history it is plausible that when more efficient chips are produced ... they are produced by ASICMiner.
5439  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Miner's Official Coin LAUNCH - NUGGETS (NUGs) on: July 22, 2013, 10:48:21 AM
When I found about bitcoin and saw I had no way to compete I went for Litecoin.  Went to fry's and had them build me a special 8 core AMD 8350, dual AMD RADEON 8750 GPU's miner with the high end Samsung 8400 (I think) pro SSD drive and the best wifi card, best to the next, the AC card was double, back ally a nice high end $1,700 desktop made especially mining..  But this rig i guarantee was above the usual small miner rig and guess what I made with it. Jack and shit.



Oh man, you can't be this bad at stuff.

No he really is that stupid.  See Vlad doesn't believe in knowledge, experience or skill.  Vlad believes you just do things and then you winz.  If you don't winz then it is someone else's fault.
5440  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: puzzle; receive btc and make it spend-able only from different address on: July 22, 2013, 10:45:43 AM
I just want to use single address forever, and spend using different keys every time.
You can do this with a 1-of-n multisig address, though I can't imagine why you would want to. What exactly do you hope to achieve?

This.  "Forever" is impossible. but you could make n large.

1) Create a multi-sig script with n (say 100) addresses.
2) Create a P2SH address from the hash of the script.
3) Coins send to the P2SH address can be spent by any one of the 100 addressess.

Scripts need to be deterministic and independent of other executions of the script so the script can't enforce that you use each address only once however you could choose to only use each address only once.

You can't update the addresses.  Adding or changing the set of addresses would result in a new script hash and thus new P2SH address.

However I have a feeling we are dealing with an x-y problem here
http://mywiki.wooledge.org/XyProblem
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