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5921  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: BitSpend Business Indefinitely Closed Because Their Bank Doesn't Like Bitcoins on: June 21, 2013, 02:46:59 PM
It doesn't really matter the big 5 all work the same but Bank Of America and PNC Bank specifically.  Speaking with other Bitcoin related companies Chase, Wells Fargo, Citi all have arbitrarily closed accounts in good standing.  I am not going to name names but the odds are just about Bitcoin related company (not to be confused with companies which accept Bitcoins for payment) that you have used has had at least one bank account closed for "no good reason".   The same thing occurs with international banks as well, not a single exchange anywhere in the world hasn't had at least one bank account closed (Canada, Japan, Germany, France, UK, it doesn't really matter).   It is just part of the business.   High transaction volume without a corresponding high asset base is "risky" in most banking models.  They are worried about regulatory oversight, fraud, criminal activity, money laundering, cybercrime, etc.  Right now "oh this is Bitcoin so a huge number of transactions to a huge number of individuals is normal" isn't a good enough answer.  The simplest "solution" is just to close high risk accounts and make them someone else problem.  Maybe in time that will change.

Now what you described (leaving millions in deposit) is laughably an entirely different scale.  I am sure if you are willing to leave $20M on deposit they likely will bend some of their own rules.  I was talking about SMALL BUSINESS.  A Bitcoin startup even if they had $20M in cash couldn't really justify leaving idle to keep their bank happy.
5922  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Boycott 0.8.2 on: June 21, 2013, 01:52:08 PM
You cant send a tx where the output is less than the new limit.

The new limit are based on developer estimates of cost.

But they have unintended consequences, for example, if you had made a business in colored coins, this change may hit you hard. 

OK, but my point was simply that those transactions can be spent at nigh on 0 cost regardless of how small they are. So the change is not in any way designed to save people from receiving tiny transactions because of the costs that person will incur spending them.

Well no.   If you send a spammy low priority tx with no fee there is a very good chance it will NEVER confirm.  There is also a good chance it will never even be seen by a miner in your lifetime because every node following QT rules (which is more than just the QT clients) refuses to relay low priority tx which don't include a fee.  As a result you will be forced to include a fee greater than the value of the output you are trying to spend in order to spend it which is utterly stupid.   The 0.8.2 rules simply prevent CREATING new outputs which can't be spent.  If nodes are willing to relay tx with smaller fees that threshold also decreases.  For example the current default on low priority txs is a fee that is a minimum of 0.1 mBTC and thus that same node won't relay outputs smaller than 0.0543 mBTC.  If today (or in the future) that node lowered the min mandatory fee on low priority txs to say 0.02 mBTC then it would also relay outputs as small as 0.01086 mBTC.
5923  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Can the BTC developers just cut the blockchain in half to save memory space? on: June 21, 2013, 05:12:59 AM
Or would that mess up the network?  Isn't the full block chain needed to show proof of work for each BTC?

No you can't just cut the blockchain in half.

Full nodes need a full and complete copy of the blockchain back to genesis block.
Slightly less security is a full node with pruned copy of the blockchain.
SPV (lite clients) don't need a full or even pruned copy of the blockchain.

So there are options going forward but someone, somewhere (and preferably a couple hundred "archive" nodes) need a full complete copy of the blockchain.

5924  Other / Meta / Re: Activity & new membergroup limits on: June 20, 2013, 03:22:50 PM
I'm really confused about how this works...
activity = min(time * 14, posts)

I was never good at algebra...

min just means the minimum of the two values.

Your activity is the lesser of
a) time active (in two week periods) * 14
OR
b) total posts

So if you have been active for 4 weeks and have 40 posts
a) 2 * 14 = 28
b) 40
activity = 28 (the minimum of 28 and 40)

So if you have been active for 10 weeks and have 62 posts
a) 5 * 14 = 70
b) 62
activity = 62 (the minimum of 62 and 70)


5925  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: BitSpend Business Indefinitely Closed Because Their Bank Doesn't Like Bitcoins on: June 20, 2013, 03:10:14 PM
And how you got through this?

Luckily there are over 1,100 national banks in the United States.
5926  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: BitSpend Business Indefinitely Closed Because Their Bank Doesn't Like Bitcoins on: June 20, 2013, 03:09:18 PM
Quote
Banks are private property.

I know this is talking from an idealist POV but banks are infrastructure and that should merit a different set of mind.
This case is basically like saying "We're gonna cut your power and water supply because we don't like that you're producing giant purple dildos."

No I was speaking from a practical application of the law point of view.  You have no right to a bank account, your account, any account can be closed at anytime for any reason without recourse.  The sole exception being that the bank violates a protected class (race, religion, etc).

If you think that is unfair, start a Bitcoin friendly (or neutral) bank.  No seriously I will be your first depositor and I WANT to pay you thousands of dollars a month in banking fees.
5927  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Refrences to gather "under the hood" information on: June 20, 2013, 02:26:22 AM
No.

For better or worse if you are unwilling to look at other's source you are going to go nowhere.
5928  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: BitSpend Business Indefinitely Closed Because Their Bank Doesn't Like Bitcoins on: June 20, 2013, 02:21:51 AM
my bank manager knows me, we have shaken hands many times. he understand bitcoin, understand my business model so i have no issues continuing to do what i do. and no fear of sudden crazy actions from the bank

Yeah and if the bank's computer model says you are high risk the account will be closed by corporate and there is absolutely nothing your local banker (who has no real power) can do.  We did $20M in transactions, generated nearly $50K in banking fees, never had a single complaint, never had a single case of fraud, were registered as an MSB, provided both bank anti-fraud team and local banker a 20 page document outlining our business model and the account was summarily closed by corporate due to high risk nature of our business.

saying your local bank manager had no powers is a moot a point as saying how does corporate head quarters of your bank know your transactions are related to bitcoins, and not something unrelated. like memberships/advertising/etc.

its all about how you come across to the banks and inform them of the business plan and how you will reduce risks and self manage issues, to make sure the banks never have any issues. and to continue regular chats with them.

just handing over a business plan and thinking thats all thats needed for the year is not helpful

Yeah once again a) there were no issues and b) the closure had nothing to do with Bitcoin (in our case).  The model based on account transaction volume predicted the account was high risk and the closure was absolute.  Our local banker was actually pretty upset given we were a high grossing account for the local branch.

If you never reach that point then your "relationship" with local branch manager is meaningless you wouldn't be closed anyways and if you do reach that point your local branch manager isn't going to stop a closure.

As it relates to the OP like I said they will get all their funds back and they have absolutely no grounds to sue.  A bank can close an account for any reason at any time even without a reason and there is no grounds for a suit.
5929  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: BitSpend Business Indefinitely Closed Because Their Bank Doesn't Like Bitcoins on: June 20, 2013, 01:54:11 AM
my bank manager knows me, we have shaken hands many times. he understand bitcoin, understand my business model so i have no issues continuing to do what i do. and no fear of sudden crazy actions from the bank

Yeah and if the bank's computer model says you are high risk the account will be closed by corporate and there is absolutely nothing your local banker (who has no real power) can do.  We did $20M in transactions, generated nearly $50K in banking fees, never had a single complaint, never had a single case of fraud, were registered as an MSB, provided both bank anti-fraud team and local banker a 20 page document outlining our business model and the account was summarily closed by corporate due to high risk nature of our business.
5930  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: [ANN] Tangible Cryptography suspends Bitcoin related transactions on: June 20, 2013, 01:30:51 AM
Have you given any consideration to resuming offering escrow services temporarily until you get a formal response from the commission?

Regardless of the decision, Tangible Cryptography, LLC won't be offering escrow in the future.  Too high risk, too low profit (competing with 0% fee operators), and too manpower intensive.  If you need a trusted escrow agent I would recommend John K.  He is the only one I trust enough to use personally.
5931  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: BitSpend Business Indefinitely Closed Because Their Bank Doesn't Like Bitcoins on: June 20, 2013, 01:28:54 AM
They will get every cent of their balance back and have absolutely no case on which to sue.

Banks are private property.  Banks can close an account for any reason or even a lack of reason unless it violates a protected class (race, religion, etc).

Just about every bitcoin related business (not to be confused with businesses that accept bitcoins) has had at least one bank account closed.  You either adapt and move on, or you get out of the business.
5932  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Floppy disks viable for wallet.dat storage? on: June 19, 2013, 09:13:40 PM
Of everything mentioned in the thread floppy disks are probably the worst for achrival.

Tape, mDisc, and specifically designed archival CD-ROM are probably your best bet along with plain old paper.
As gglon pointed out above storing the file it makes sense to store it redundantly.  There are a couple of different methods.

Lastly you really should have more than one copy as anything no matter how well designed can fail.  Take a wallet.dat expand it to say 5,000 key keypool put one copy on a mDisc, one copy encrypted in the cloud, and a printout of private keys on paper and with proper storage I would be confident it can be recovered in 10-30 years.

5933  Other / Off-topic / Re: Do you think microwaved water hurts plant growth? on: June 19, 2013, 06:33:14 PM
Yes, pouring boiling hot water right out of the microwave onto plants can hurt them.

The soil analysis for my lawn said it was deficient in iron so I poured molten iron on it.  the damn lawn died although as a plus I no longer have to worry about weeds.
5934  Other / Meta / Re: Activity & new membergroup limits on: June 19, 2013, 06:22:41 PM
I think that it should be more of something like this:

time = number of 1-day periods in which you've posted since your registration
activity = min(time, posts)

That'd make people feel paranoid about always getting a post in each day, I think.

Agreed.  That would be horrible.  stackoverflow has a badge where you need to login for 100 consecutive days.  Despite regularly posting questions and answers there for years I always miss a day.  It annoys the crap out of me.

I think 14 day period if fine although you might want to consider 7 day or 30 day simply because it a more logical unit when people think about time.
5935  Other / Meta / Re: Activity & new membergroup limits on: June 19, 2013, 06:18:39 PM
Why do people keep repeating this! It is EASIER than before because all you do is create an account, do 7 posts a week and you gain hero status by WAITING. Not by doing anything, not by being credible, but by WAITING.

And by that virtue, EVERYONE will get promoted to hero.

If logic not your strong suit.

Old System:
Post 400 times in any amount of time (even a single day) = "hero"

New System:
Post on average 14 times per two week period for 400/14 / 26 = 1.09 years = "hero"

How exactly is there any possible scenario where the new system is "easier".  To "game" the new system at a minimum one needs to create an account, login every two weeks, spam 14 posts, and repeat that 26 times.
5936  Other / Meta / Re: Activity & new membergroup limits on: June 19, 2013, 06:11:55 PM
If I post 1 message per fortnight for the next year, I'll get hero. That incentive to contribute.

Uh ... no. 

1 post every 14 days would be + 1 activity every 14 days.   So in a year you would have +26 activity.

If you post 14 times per 14 days then yes you will be a "hero" in a year.  Then again if you are still around regularly posting week after week for a year doesn't it make sense that you should be.   You haven't gamed anything.
5937  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Why 1000 alternative coins?? learn from Linux project on: June 19, 2013, 06:00:16 PM
I guess no, since once quantum computer will be developed - all current cryptos will fall. since you can easily break sha256 / ripemd160 & EC key on quantum computer  Grin

Or not.  There is no known Quantum Algorithm for breaking symmetrical encryption or hashing algorithms.
5938  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Boycott 0.8.2 on: June 19, 2013, 05:53:20 PM
I see the word "freedom" mentioned in this thread a bunch of times.

Here is a quote from Jefferson:



Quote
"I would rather be exposed to the inconvenience attending too much Liberty than those attending too small degree of it." Thomas Jefferson



Luckily you still have the FREEDOM to create spammy uneconomcial transactions (once which cost more in fees that they are worth spending).  You just have to find someone willing to mine it for you.

<GASP>  Freedom means opportunity not forcing others to bend to your will. 

Spammers have the freedom to create spammy worthless transactions.
Nodes have the freedom to either relay them or not.
Miners have the freedom to decide what transactions go into the current block.
5939  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: WARNING! Bitcoin will soon block small transaction outputs on: June 19, 2013, 05:50:46 PM
All the faucet sites have to implement off chain money boxes now

Or just .... I don't know dispense 0.06 mBTC or more at once (I know an utterly staggering sum of roughly half a penny).
5940  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Noob question: Bitcoin denominations on: June 19, 2013, 03:39:37 PM
Steve132 got it but I would point out nobody really uses 1/100th as a terminology.

As a practical example 0.25 BTC is 0.25 BTC or 250 mBTC.
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