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141  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Bitcurex.com - Win BCC card at BitMinter.com - MintRace Weekend #2 on: September 07, 2012, 12:47:43 PM
I got my Bitcurex card in the mail today, quite a bit faster than expected Smiley

I only just sold some BTC to charge the card, transferred it to the card, over an hour later the balance is still zero, but if it takes 2 hours, that will work for me too. I do wish there was an easier way to check the balance than sending an SMS to Poland.

Also,  it seems as if google play / wallet wont accept the card. Perhaps its because the balance is still zero, but apparently the card must be enabled for digital goods purchases. Is it enabled for that? If not,  how do I enable that?

update: a few hours later the card is charged and it works just fine on Google Wallet Smiley


As for the rest, the procedure seems pretty straight forward. The paper work (and english language translations) could be a little more professional I guess, but thats nitpicking. A bigger concern is that there is very little market depth at bitcurex exchange, selling just 10BTC made the price drop by 5% lol. It appears to be a nice exchange, so Im sure the is some opportunity for arbitration if anyone is interested.

142  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Depositors insurance? on: September 07, 2012, 08:11:09 AM
So to make an insurance option feasible I the insurer will retain the private keys to a bitcoin address that a depositor can use to store their bitcoins

The only thing in/assured here is that the depositor will lose his coins.

143  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Another 2.5TH jump overnight ? on: September 07, 2012, 06:34:28 AM
There is no sudden overnight jump. There is only variability. Its nothing new:
http://bitcoin.sipa.be/
144  Economy / Long-term offers / Re: Who Pays What? on: September 06, 2012, 10:42:59 PM
Yes it's late, but it's also proof. You have the right to call them a scam at that point. Calling everyone a scammer because you don't like how they do business isn't proof.

The point is not to prove they are scams. You cant prove that. Nor do you have to. The point is to rate businesses which can demonstrate they are (most likely) NOT scams, which can demonstrate reserves, income, identity etc above ones which can not demonstrate any of that at all.

As it is now, its trivially easy to set up a ponzi on GLSBE, and get Patrick to rate you AAA. What then is the meaning of it? Its meaningless. Dont even bother.
145  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Discussion about 10,000BTC Bet (Official) on: September 06, 2012, 10:27:39 PM
The irony of this is that I remember Matthew actually being quite sceptical of Pirate's scheme.

From what I've gathered (and I could quite likely be very wrong), Matthew is trying to make a point and pirate's scheme has less to do with it than reactions from forum members do.

Perhaps. Or perhaps thats what he will claim; but just as likely Matthew saw an opportunity to potentially make $100's of K and eternal fame for the risk no bigger than getting a scammer tag on a nerd forum.
146  Economy / Long-term offers / Re: Who Pays What? on: September 06, 2012, 10:00:19 PM
Now when i see someone that guarantees no losses and they default then i'll call it a scam.

ROFL. A bit late then, no?
147  Economy / Long-term offers / Re: Who Pays What? on: September 06, 2012, 09:58:01 PM
Obviously I will be interested to see your collected assessments of the people in this section then.

You mean all the 1% per week "securities"? I trust none of them, not one tiny bit. Nor should anyone as long as they do not open their books and wallets so to speak.

Now unlike me,  you have taken it upon yourself to rate them, and I actually think thats a good idea; I can imagine legitimate businesses not wanting to disclose everything to everyone, so there is a good argument to be made that someone like yourself, who  would need to be trusted by both parties, would obtain privileged access to information to make meaningful assessments, allowing legitimate businesses to prove themselves to be more trustworthy than the scammers. That means you would  judge the facts (or lack thereof), not the scammers lies.
148  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Discussion about 10,000BTC Bet (Official) on: September 06, 2012, 09:48:57 PM
The irony of this is that I remember Matthew actually being quite sceptical of Pirate's scheme.
149  Economy / Long-term offers / Re: Who Pays What? on: September 06, 2012, 08:19:05 PM
The whole point of bitcoin land is to stay anonymous,

That may be the point for you, but its certainly not the case for many legitimate businesses.

Quote
The standards are different here. Even in the real world though i can get tens of thousands of USD from banks with nothing more than my credit history.

Not without giving up your anonymity you dont.
150  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: pirate payments list -- accounts paid: 23/459 on: September 06, 2012, 08:15:53 PM
Uhh, he was saying that your $1.4 million reasons do not ruin my reputation for life. I agree with him. You take bitcoin far too seriously. Perhaps it's time for a break from the forums.

151  Economy / Long-term offers / Re: Who Pays What? on: September 06, 2012, 07:59:35 PM
Credit ratings show your history, not your future.

Im not asking Patrick to predict the future, but to verify claims made. If he cant do that (because the issuer of the security wont let him), then there is no reason to give a positive rating. None. A good history proves nothing, a scammer is not going to be stupid enough to scam twice with the same identity. Of course they all have an impeccable history.  Case in point, no one had a higher rating on OTC than pirate.  But because no one was allowed to verify his assets, holdings, income, his super secret business model or even his true identity, it was a text book example of an almost certain ponzi. An F, not a AAA+ asset.

Quote
This is bitcoin land where risk is much higher by default. A AAA rating in bitcoin land is much higher risk also, but less than the lower rated individuals.

There is no reason why this should be true. In bitcoin land its perfectly possible to open your books and  have someone verify your  claims, prove your identity, income and business model. Some things are even easier than outside bitcoin, we have a public blockchain after all. If what you said were true, it would be impossible for legitimate businesses to distinguish themselves from the scammers, except by not being able to promise similarly high returns. And if thats impossible, then what the point of having ratings at all?
152  Economy / Lending / Re: Looking for a large loan. on: September 06, 2012, 07:16:01 PM
Well put

A lot of people have come onto this forum and made the same basic mistake you've made. You run a few numbers based on what your returns would be if you could start instantly and no one else changed their behavior.

Thats the irony of it: because its a zero sum game, the profitability will be determined by how many "idiots" (/ignorant/whatever) preorder the gear. If you have lurched on this forum for a while, then you may have noticed there is no shortage of people with more money than brains, so my guess is there will be far too many orders to make it profitable. If I misjudged that, the "idiots" might make a nice profit for a while, but I wouldnt count on it. Its a bit like a penny auction. The auctioneer (ie, supplier of ascis)  is the only one I might bet money on getting a good deal out of this.
153  Economy / Long-term offers / Re: Who Pays What? on: September 06, 2012, 07:03:14 PM
I'm an eagle-eyed investor. Please change all ratings to FFF, for the sake of accuracy.

Thank you Mosrite.  However, you're also to stupid to understand the rating metrics and grades used in the real world, let alone the ones used as general guidance here.  When you can provide some reasons for your recommendation, then someone might take you more seriously.

Let me give you some; AFAICT, you do zero verification of claims made by those lender. Most of them probably wouldnt let you, because then it would become quite clear what they are doing.  I do mean verify what they hold in their wallets, GLSBE portfolio, identity of their creditors  etc. Correct me if Im wrong, but you seem to give a rating based pretty much solely on what they  tell you.  Since most of them are scams, they will lie, and you are rating the lies, not the lenders. The  the only thing  that does is provide false credibility. If you can not verify their claims, an F is indeed what you should give. Its up to them to prove they are worthy of a better rating.
154  Economy / Long-term offers / Re: High-interest, low-risk 'investments' are like perpetual motion machines on: September 06, 2012, 06:14:46 PM
I was sent a personal message by somebody saying that the burden of proof that something is a scam should be on the person accusing the scammer.  If they can't PROVE it, then they should shut up.

I disagree. I think the burden of proof is on people "guaranteeing" high returns.

Precisely.  This is so obvious it shouldnt even have to be posted (let alone quoted and acknowledged).

As I posted elsewhere, saying something is a ponzi is the same as saying there is no profit generation. You cant prove a negative, its up to the person accepting deposits to prove its not a scam or ponzi. If such proof is not presented, it should be assumed a ponzi/scam.

Thats why i think Patrick Harnetts ratings are so dangerous. He is assuming the information fed to him is correct, and bases his ratings on that, best I can tell, without checking any cold hard facts, like wallet addresses, GLSBE holdings, bank statements or anything. In effect he is just legitimizing any scammer thats making false claims by rating the lies instead of the facts.
155  Economy / Lending / Re: Looking for a large loan. on: September 06, 2012, 05:58:21 PM
So basically all of you are saying that there is no more money to be made at Bitcoin mining. 

Not everyone agrees, and Ive been wrong before,  but its my belief that soon there will be no money to be made with mining for the vast majority of (asic) miners. There will be a  short, very profitable window, but its anyone's guess who will get their gear in time to profit from that. Almost certainly no one still ordering today though. And even then Im assuming most of the potential profit isnt reaped by the ASIC vendors themselves, since some of them will do their own mining.  After that, its game over IMO, and mining will become a matter of reducing your overall losses until asic prices bottom out and it once again becomes a matter of having lowest electricity costs.

Quote
  Though actually it is starting to appear irrelevant as I seem to have no one actually talking about a loan. 

Well, thats the other problem with your post; even if asic mining were a fairly sure way to earn lots of money, why would people lend you the money and not order the asics themselves? Its not like it requires any skills to operate a mining rig.

To be fair though, it is done quite often, if you go over to https://glbse.com you will find a bazillion mining companies and bonds and people trying to get the money to order mining gear. I wont stop you from trying, but its not gonna be a gold mine for you (and most likely even less for your investors).  But best of luck should you decide to try.
156  Economy / Services / Re: GPUMAX | The Bitcoin Mining Marketplace on: September 06, 2012, 05:43:59 PM
I wanted to get a feel for how much public work there is - so I went out at current PPS last night.  I got zero public work if that tells you anything.

Over the past week, there has been 2% public work. And most, if not all of that was probably 2 large purchases during bitminters race weekend. Its becoming increasingly clear to me that gpumax' biggest customer has always been Pirate himself.
157  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: Discussion about 10,000BTC Bet (Official) on: September 06, 2012, 05:38:54 PM
He's actively working against Pirate at every turn so that I will lose my bet. I wonder how the community thinks about that as a "fair" bet.

Completely fair. If for some reason I cant imagine, Pirate's ability to pay back his loans depended on Goat, then I would have tenfolded my bet. However, if its only stalling and pirate pays back everything he owes plus interest later, let me be on record as saying I will refund you my wager as if you had won.
158  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: pirate payments list -- accounts paid: 23/459 on: September 06, 2012, 05:15:33 PM
It would also rhyme with pirate claiming to be afraid of BTC price increase, since he would be paid in dollar and owed BTC.
And it would even match his grandiose claims of being part of a much much bigger "thing".

as for the timing, Maged quoted pirate on august 17, 6pm:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101339.0

Not sure how long that was after pirate announced closing shop, but probably only a few hours.

All in all, sounds plausible.
159  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: ModMiner Quad High Efficiency FPGA Bitcoin Mining Devices 840Mh/s BTCFPGA.com on: September 06, 2012, 12:29:12 PM
he already produced the maskset and they probably had a few test wafers done.
IIRC he stated, in this thread, that his first chips came from a shared wafer at a university.

Some quantity from a portion of a wafer, not 'a few wafers' as a test run at a commercial fab in preparation to just cranking out commercial amounts from the same fab.

I have no idea what would be involved in moving from a proven test run from a 'shared university wafer' to x number of wafers at commercial fab. But there is bound to be some delay. And risk.

Okay, I missed that, interesting.
Well, universities dont have fabs, so where ever they fab those chips, you could go there and have your asic produced. There are a few possible ways; either you could re-use the shared mask set that only contains a few of your own chips, and the fab will be able to fill an entire wafer with this using a stepper. Not all fabs do this, and the ones that do charge a significant surcharge for it, because its a lot of work per wafer.  But for a bitcoin chip this is probably still a good way to go, as volume will be small for an asic project, and wafer costs insignificant.

Another way is to have a new maskset built based on your now-proven design. You would still be tied to the same fab though and it will cost a pretty penny and take even longer, but your per chip costs would be a lot lower.

Im guessing they are going with the first option.
160  Economy / Lending / Re: Looking for a large loan. on: September 06, 2012, 12:09:49 PM
Pirate1, Im actually inclined to believe your story, and would like to apologize on behalf of some of the other posters for unnecessary rudeness.

That said, cedivad is quite right and your plan is a terrible one. It will not work for a lot of reasons, and I would strongly urge you to let it go. Anyone ordering a minirig SC today is bound to lose money on it. There are no less than 4 known ASIC providers that have promised hardware this year (or maybe early next year for deepbit, not sure). This will cause a spiral  of lowering hardware price and rising difficulty.  ASICs are dirt cheap to produce, prices could go orders of magnitude lower than they are today, and difficulty will rise with it. I wouldnt be too surprised that by the time you get your minirig, difficulty will be 100x what it is today. And by the time t has earned  back its investment, we will all be long dead.

Bitcoin isnt the answer to your problems Im afraid, certainly mining isnt.
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