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1  Economy / Computer hardware / Re: [WTB] BFL FPGA Minirig on: October 26, 2014, 10:50:48 PM
I have 3x Minirig SC's. Interested?
2  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: BFL fucks us over again on: March 10, 2013, 09:36:07 PM
Avalon's price includes shipping.  BFL charges extra.  Redo your math with that taken into account.

Also your power comparisons are based on imaginary data.  Let's revisit when BFL has product in the field.
Fine, let's split some hairs. From my BFL order invoice:

  • Subtotal: $29,899.00
  • Shipping & Handling: $348.00
  • Grand Total: $30,247.00

$30,247 / 1500GH/s = $20.16/GH/s. Still better than Avalon and the other companies.

BFL seems very confident in those power consumption points.. They've been sticking to 1W/GH/s for a while now, and are offering 1000BTC to charity if they miss it. And seeing how the Minirig SC only has one wall connection, and most house wiring can at most support ~1500W per wall outlet, it's unlikely they're going to ship a product that will consume more than that.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/content/123-bfl-offers-1000-btc-charity-if-they-miss-their-power-targets-comments2.html

Quote
~14KW is a LOT of electricity.. good luck finding a house with the wiring to support that, or the datacenter that will let you host it.
This a lot of electricity but only 59 amp @ 240V. Most house around here use 200 amp panel and a lot more if it's a commercial building.

You can't just flip a switch and run at 240V in your house. And pretending for a second that you could, you'd still pay the same amount of money for electricity. The only advantage is that your electronics that support 240V would run cooler. That's it. Believe me, I called up a datacenter that I wanted to host a mining rig in and asked them about this almost a year ago.
3  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: BFL fucks us over again on: March 10, 2013, 08:49:27 PM
How can you even compare the Avalon to a nonexistent minirig? Did the minirig cost you $1400 or $240,000? That comes out to $22 per GH/s avalon to $160 per GH/s for your minirig assuming you had it today.  I really hope you can recoup your initial investment within 12months because it will probably be outdated soon after that. Lets also hope for your sake the price stays up and keeps going up after you start hashing of course. I can't believe how people can still defend this company, especially if they cut back on the chips. Good luck and Take Care.
Bro, do you even math?

From Avalon's website:

  • hashrate: greater than 65 Gh/s speed guaranteed.
  • power consumption: ~ 600w @ 120v AC
  • cost: $1500 (minus shipping?)

From BFL's website:

  • Processing Power: 1,500 GH/s (+/- 10% running variance)
  • Power Consumption: Approximately 1,500 Watts
  • cost: $30,000 (minus shipping.)

Avalon: $1500 / 65GH/s = $23.08/GH/s.
BFL: $30,000 / 1500GH/s = $20/GH/s.

And let's just pretend for a second that somehow you did some calculations that somehow showed the cost per GH/s through BFL was $160/GH/s. Take another look at that info I posted from the website.. Each unit from Avalon (and from that other Hungarian company making ASICs now) consumes about 600W to produce 65GH/s, but each Minirig SC from BFL consumes 1500W to produce 1500GH/s.

Avalon: 1500 GH/s / 65 GH/s = 23.07 * 600W = 13846.15W to hit the same amount of performance as the Minirig SC. Ain't nobody got the time or money for that.
BFL: 1500GH/s = 1500W. 1W/GH/s is excellent.

When I'm considering whether the SC was the right way to go, I'm thinking in terms of equivalences -- could I have bought an equivalent amount of hashing power distributed across many hashing units from bASIC or Avalon or whoever and achieve the same hashing power for the same amount of money, and consume roughly the same amount of electricity, and receive my hashing units sooner? The answer seems to be no. Even if you did some calculation to show that investing in BFL cost slightly more per GH/s, you're ignoring the cost of electricity.

~14KW is a LOT of electricity.. good luck finding a house with the wiring to support that, or the datacenter that will let you host it.
4  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: BFL fucks us over again on: March 10, 2013, 01:27:02 AM
The problem with the "Be happy if you get what they originally advertized, because that's what you paid for" is:

1. They grossly underestimated the ship date. Considering their history this lesson should have been learned unless it was by design or the delay dramatically shortened. You paid for October 2012.

2. They have been stringing people along and still continue to by selling hope so they don't cancel orders. You paid to have a product not hope.

3. Competition has already released product, and is making your purchase less valuable everyday. Also the competition was a lot more honest with their release date, and their customers are being rewarded.

Anyone who is unhappy by them potentially putting less chips in the unit and overclocking the ones left to make up the difference is entitled at this point. Isn't it interesting how they sold all this hope that the units can be overclocked and will be a much better value, and then when the finish line is near they go back on those claims. Seems pretty clear cut they fluffed up the data to keep orders. Anyone who is defending BFL should be ashamed if they really do cut back on the chips per unit. I'm glad i got out in December. I had a feeling this was gonna happen. Hope you enjoyed your interest free loans to BFL and i hope you get something for it.
I'm still waiting for the Minirig SC I ordered many months ago. I'm bitter that its taking this long, sure. I kinda suspected BFL would fuck me over somehow all along. But I'm not getting a refund. This is why:

1. I paid for October 2012, but the exchange rate for bitcoins has gone up quite drastically since October. Compensating for a higher difficulty with a higher exchange rate is A-OK in my book. I think there's still plenty of opportunity for a windfall of sorts when the Minirig SC arrives.

2. For a long time, BFL kept us in the dark over why it was taking so long to manufacture and ship to us. Then in January, Josh stopped completely bullshitting us and gave us a very detailed explanation, which you can read at the link below. tl;dr they designed for the wrong chip package so the delays were to redesign to accommodate better thermal tolerances and give themselves more thermal headroom in the future for things like overclocking.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status.html

3. Competition -- Avalon, right? -- hasn't had a fantastic production run. As of Feb. 20th, they had shipped <10 units. And to clarify, those units were 65GH/s, nowhere near the 1500GH/s behemoth that is the Minirig SC. At this point I still feel there is plenty of time to get a Minirig SC and enjoy a windfall.

http://mineforeman.com/2013/02/20/another-avalon-asic-bitcoin-miner-has-been-delivered/
5  Economy / Marketplace / Re: ["WAIT LIST"] BFL SC Pre-Order Information on: October 29, 2012, 01:51:21 AM
private message from NLA

You need to update your BFL SC Wait List thread!

Sorry if I am not Quick enough for you, I do this in my spare time, Please make your feelings public than private messaging this.

Kind regards
squall1066
Ok!

You need to update your BFL SC Wait List thread! Grin
6  Economy / Marketplace / Re: ["WAIT LIST"] BFL SC Pre-Order Information on: October 23, 2012, 02:36:34 PM
10/19/2012, 11113, N, 0, 0, 0, 1, NLA
7  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Re: Implications for Minirig SC owners? on: October 13, 2012, 09:07:56 PM
The BFL wait list thread has just under 50TH/s of orders. I think someone else around here claimed that Inaba (or BFL_Josh) said they were closing in on 90TH/s of preorders. The bASIC is closing in in 35TH/s of preorders. The Avalon preorders were around 18TH/s.

For my personal calculations, I'm assuming a 200TH/s network by the end of 2012, and then increasing by 20% per month after that. You can do the math to figure out the rest.
Well, if you're assuming a 200TH/s network by the end of 2012, what are you assuming the true overall networking hash rate is right now to correspond to current difficulty levels, so I can do some simple math and multiply the current difficulty to get expected profit by the end of 2012?
8  Bitcoin / Mining speculation / Implications for Minirig SC owners? on: October 13, 2012, 08:58:00 PM
I posed this question to #bitcoin, and they weren't very responsive, so here's a chatlog of my thoughts that I'd like to get some feedback on.

Code:
[16:35:02] <NLA> maybe I'm just not seeing it
[16:35:10] <NLA> but has anyone done some calculations
[16:35:20] <NLA> based on the BFL ASIC waiting thread
[16:35:30] <NLA> as to what the project difficulty will jump to
[16:35:39] <NLA> in October/November/December
[16:36:04] <NLA> and how that will affect how much that will affect the profitability of the different BFL ASIC
[16:36:49] <NLA> ie. at the current moment, the BFG of the bunch, the SC Minirig, estimated at 1500GH/s by BFL, would currently earn $180,000/month at current rates

[16:37:02] <NLA> obviously the difficulty is going to spike up when BFL starts delivering preorders
[16:37:21] <NLA> and likely small miners are going to be forced out due to the difficulty spike
[16:37:31] <NLA> but it seems like a lot of threads are ending there and focusing on the little guy

[16:38:06] <NLA> what I'm interested in is what happens to the big guys? does $180,000/month today become $30,000/month almost overnight? or $15,000? or $1,000?

[16:41:22] <NLA> Take for instance http://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate and https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=89685.0
[16:41:42] <NLA> if the current overall network hashing rate is estimated at 25TH/s
[16:41:57] <NLA> and based on the data from the wait list
[16:42:11] <NLA> which will likely not cover all the pre-orders made to BFL
[16:42:33] <NLA> of a total increase of 48.339TH/s when everyone receives their units and flips the switch on
[16:43:22] <NLA> thats almost a 3x increase in total hashing rate, and therefore a linear increase of 3x difficulty to accomodate the increased hashing rate

[16:43:50] <NLA> Consulting a simple profit calculator http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator
[16:44:31] <NLA> and multiplying the difficulty by 3x and plugging in 1500GH/s
[16:44:48] <NLA> results in an expected return of $59,924.51/month
[16:45:17] <NLA> which is significantly down from $180,000 but is still reasonable
[16:45:44] <NLA> but if everyone quits mining because the difficulty is so high
[16:45:56] <NLA> and lets pretend the exchange rate of bitcoin falls to $5/coin
[16:46:22] <NLA> that results in an expected return of $25,024.91/month

[16:47:40] <NLA> and I could what-if further along all day and make wild assumptions, but has anyone actually thought about the implications for the big guy, the guy that dropped $30K on a Minirig SC?

Thoughts, anyone? Am I overlooking some possibilities here? Is it possible for Minirig SC owners to net $180,000 for a month or two before, say, the block worth is cut in half, or the network collapses, or is it possible that almost upon arrival that Minirig SC owners will net $10,000 first month, $8,000 next, etc., and never earn back their initial investment?
9  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Re: 8GPU on windows anyone? on: October 13, 2012, 03:01:44 PM
I tried to do 7 with Windows, and it turns out that you need a motherboard with some PCI latency setting to get it working right (and that the motherboard I had did not support said setting). Expect to do 5 unless you're lucky and have a motherboard with a BIOS that supports it.
10  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Re: CGMINER GPU FPGA overc monit fanspd RPC stratum linux/windows/osx/mip/r-pi 2.8.3 on: October 13, 2012, 02:58:49 PM
Is it possible to point particular GPU's in a single instance of cgminer to different pools, rather than having to do so with multiple cgminer instances? For instance, say I want to launch just one cgminer instance, and point one GPU explicitly at Eclipse, one at Bitminter, and one at Slush, all with different login credentials?
11  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: -1BTC reward-Lower voltage downclock for 7970 under Ubuntu 12.04 on: July 13, 2012, 07:27:41 PM
Wait, maybe I'm not understanding here. Are you saying that with Ubuntu you're using more power than with Windows 7? Sounds good to me.
12  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Re: Akbash 1.0.6 - cgminer watchdog (smart metering, H/W monitoring, emails, HTTP) on: July 10, 2012, 02:38:52 PM
- Support .bat as well as .lnk for launching cgminer?

   It should be supported now.  Let me know if it does not work for you.  Lnk is just an example of how to wrap a long command line, set working directory etc.
Ah, I just tried it and it works. I swear I tried it before and it didn't work, must be my mistake.

- Support attempting to reset network adapters before resorting to rebooting Windows?

   Not sure how this would help.  Would need more info on the kind of problems you are experiencing. I could enable/disable network devices, but if your router is a toast, it is kinda beyond akbash reach.
Well, its an oddball issue with Windows Vista and 7 (maybe XP?) that some people are aware of, and some people aren't, so I'm not surprised you haven't run into it before. Microsoft reps have stated they've fixed the issue before, etc., but the problem still exists: the network adapter just stops working, and network access is lost unless the network adapter is disabled and re-enabled in Windows. After that, it works again just fine (until it stops working again). So it would be a good check to try disabling/re-enabling all network adapters before restarting Windows. I believe this can be done with a simple command in the command prompt, so you should be able to implement this fairly easily.

- Enable/Disable email status updates option, instead of "set it to infinity minutes" work-around?

   Already done in version 1.0.6
Ah, I see it. It was kinda hidden in this big list of very-long-named options. Why not shorten the listen down to more simple terms, ie.

STRING "email-address", what email address to send to
BOOL "email-status", INT "email-status-interval", to email regular status updates
BOOL "email-OS-reboot", to email on OS reboot
BOOL "email-miner-reboot", to email on miner reboot

If email-address is empty or not valid, ignore values of other options. Simple, to-the-point, conveys meaning, easy-to-read, takes up little space. Same goes for all the other options in the config file.

- Email a portion of the akbash log as an attachment in emails?

   How many "last bytes"?  Configurable?  The whole log?  Attachments, means MIME (multipart) etc.  Not sure if I want to get into this.
   Maybe last 2000 bytes sent only when a serious problem occurs?  Not sure, have to think about this one some more.
However many entries since the last one or two times that akbash was started, up to X number of kilobytes. Also, while we're at it, it would be great if akbash could have the option of splitting up the log files each time akbash is started and starts logging (ie. akbash_log.001.txt, akbash_log.002.txt, etc). Maybe even include the last Y number of logs with the email, maybe as a ZIP?


== BUG ==

Also, I've found a bug with akbash: will improperly detect GPU usage (somehow), misinterpret as 0% and restart the miner. I know it's a bug because I'm monitoring GPU usage with MSI Afterburner, and because the miner hash rate is fine all throughout the timeout period.
13  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Re: Akbash 1.0.6 - cgminer watchdog (smart metering, H/W monitoring, emails, HTTP) on: July 04, 2012, 07:40:20 PM
Program seems to work alright, but every now and then I do experience some crashing that akbash doesn't help with. But otherwise the program is fantastic. Are you in the market for some critique/feature requests?

  • Yahoo is terrible (no forwarding/pop features for new users, messages occasionally make it through but many do not), can you add proper support for GMail?
  • Include FAQ with akbash download, as a readme (which it is)?
  • Support .bat as well as .lnk for launching cgminer?
  • Support attempting to reset network adapters before resorting to rebooting Windows?
  • Enable/Disable email status updates option, instead of "set it to infinity minutes" work-around?
  • Open source! Cheesy
  • Make the akbash output text more human readable?
  • Email a portion of the akbash log as an attachment in emails?

Hell, with just better email support I'd donate some coin your way.
14  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: Where should my 5GH/s go? on: June 30, 2012, 03:13:08 AM
I'm interested in maximizing my profits, and I could care less how it happens. I would be willing to sacrifice some fun features for more profit. In general, will I earn just as much, slightly less, or slightly more money if I mine as DGM versus PPS? This is mainly what I'm concerned about. Once I know that, I can decide whether to jump to some of these promotional pools I'm seeing advertised (110%, ProjectX), or if I should go with ABCPool because their PPS fee is only 1.5% (fairly low it seems). Or does the +10% of the 110% pool outweigh that low 1.5% PPS fee of ABCPool?

I'm hoping some people with experience can point me in the right direction.
15  Bitcoin / Pools / Where should my 5GH/s go? on: June 29, 2012, 11:25:03 PM
Topic says it all really. Right now I have two rigs running with 7x 7970's, and I've been mining with EclipseMC as DGM, but I'm wondering if maybe there's a better pool out there that I could apply my 5GH/s to? I enjoy EclipseMC's perks, such as
  • Google Voice-compatible SMS messaging (!)
  • PaypalDwolla instant cash-out option
  • Fancy added-security authentication options
  • Fairly high pool mining speed, for fairly quick block solving (and thus fairly quick payout via DGM)
Any opinions?

Also, at the moment, I'm mining as DGM, but I'm wondering if with 5GH/s I should switch over to PPS or some other variant. My (likely wrong) understanding of DGM is that you're paid a set amount based on your hash rate, not so much based on the number of shares you contribute in a round.. but wouldn't that mean then that I would want to switch to as fast a pool offering DGM as possible? And I haven't done too much investigating into whether I would make more as PPS than DGM, but can anyone shed some expert opinion into this? I'm just a hardware guy at heart, trying to earn some moneys. Halp?
16  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: Problems running 3+ GPUs (bounty) on: June 24, 2012, 01:59:40 PM
A mixture of good ideas and basic troubleshooting:

  • Do a clean re-install of Windows. It could be that simple!
  • If you don't want to re-install Windows, do a clean re-install of your drivers with ATIman, here: http://atiman.go-board.net/
  • Your RAM might be bad. Run Memtest86+ overnight and make sure the RAM is alright. http://www.memtest.org/
  • When you mine, do you mine one card at a time (for testing) or all at once? Instead of mining with all cards and causing BSoD, try mining with single cards at a time. See if the 3rd card alone causes the BSoD, or if the 5970's have something to do with it.
  • Are you using a custom BIOS on any of your cards, by chance? Undervolting/overvolting? Underclocking/overclocking?
  • Test the 3 cards you intend for this rig in a completely different rig, to make sure that the issue is definitely card related, and not related to motherboard, RAM, hard drive, or PSU.
17  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: Best SDK for 7970's? Seeking 99-100% GPU usage! on: June 23, 2012, 04:51:06 AM
You cannot run 7970s with SDK 2.5; if it's working with that combination it's only because cgminer has cached the .bin files.
Odd.. I wonder where "Lions" came from, then?

I had a similar problem in widows 7 after adding a fifth gpu, 4 gpus ran great, 5 sent cgminer into a tail spin with the hash rates, but worked fine under ubuntu, I figured out it though I had to set the gpu threads to 1 then got full steady hash rates on all 5 gpus
Reducing the number of GPU thread doesn't reduced hash rate?

I could not get the 4th to work until I increased the PCIE latency in the bios from 64 to 96.
Sadly my BIOs has no options to change PCI latency. Sad
18  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: Best SDK for 7970's? Seeking 99-100% GPU usage! on: June 22, 2012, 05:38:38 PM
Thank you very much!
Donations appreciated! Wink

Just did a clean uninstall/re-install with ATIman and installed 11.12 + the 2.5 SDK, the hash rate is terrible even though I'm getting 99-100% GPU usage (~482MH/s on stock settings with SDK 2.5, whereas SDK 2.7 did 550+MH/s). Also, "cgminer -n" identified my 7970's as "Lions" and not "Tahiti", so I'm guessing 2.6 and 2.7 are the only SDK's that will work properly with the 7970.. trying again with 2.6 before I return to 2.7..

EDIT: Just finished the clean 11.12 + SDK 2.6 install, and oddly enough it seems to not be crashing. Sometimes I can only run one GPU for mining because running all GPU's ends up with a cgminer crash. Currently have very reasonable CPU usage from cgminer (5-12%). GPU usage is still all over the place when mining with multiple GPU's.. some GPU's are hitting 93-99%, some are in the 80's.. its just a mess. Intensity at 14.
19  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: Best SDK for 7970's? Seeking 99-100% GPU usage! on: June 22, 2012, 04:25:47 PM
Ignoring the gpu usage reported, what hashrates are you getting? Max you should get about .6MH per Mhz of engine clock speed.
Well, it's hard to ignore the reported GPU usage, since I've been noticing that low GPU usage corresponds to low hashrate, and high GPU usage corresponds to high hashrate. So while the cards might be capable of hitting 550MH/s at stock settings, when I run all the GPU's in tandem I might only be hitting 450-480MH/s per GPU. I'm noticing about .5MH/s per MHz.

Also, I just used ATIman to do a clean uninstall and re-install of 11.12 and the 2.6 SDK, and cgminer is crashing when I choose a single GPU or all GPU's for mining. Do I need to compile for Windows from the latest commit?

And by the way, ckolivas, do you have any recommendations for Linux (Ubuntu) drivers + SDK for a rig with 7x 7970's? I've been reading around that some people like 12.2 + 2.6 for 2x 7970's, but is it different somehow with 7x 7970's? I forget if AMD's Linux drivers have a GPU limitation like they do in Windows.

How does one edit the BIOS of 7970? RBE doesn't support it Sad
The old fashioned way, with a hex editor. RBE should be able to support 7970 bios editing, but the dev seems to believe that there are new security mechanisms to prevent BIOS editing.. which there aren't.

This post over on the OCN forums outlines how to edit the 7970 bios to change clocks and voltages:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1196856/official-amd-radeon-hd-7950-7970-owners-thread/4220#post_16496161
20  Bitcoin / Mining support / Re: Best SDK for 7970's? Seeking 99-100% GPU usage! on: June 22, 2012, 04:20:22 AM
Odd, I swear when I was using cgminer 2.4.1 it said the intensity limit was 10.

Right now I'm using the 11.12 drivers, which I believe are the oldest drivers with 7970 support, so I'm not sure what to say. One GPU going, perfectly fine. Many GPU's running, GPU usage is between 90-95%, so I'm missing out on a good bit of performance between all the GPU's. Sad
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