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1081  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Can we talk about removing SSL from the payment protocol and put PGP? on: April 09, 2014, 10:05:39 PM
I have to agree with kjj. The PKI solution is simple and a guaranteed way of giving a proof of identity, which despite problems, has and will continue to work.

... and has lovely, juicy big back-doors.

I see Gavin has moved on now that "the job" has been done.
1082  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: April 09, 2014, 11:08:57 AM
Is there some other thread where this inane prattling about altcoins can go to?  This thread is for inane prattling about gold and bitcoin.  Smiley
Smiley
1083  Economy / Economics / Re: Would people pour their cash into bitcoin given a stock market crash? on: April 09, 2014, 04:53:46 AM
"Stockmarket crash" is a nice tidy term that public can fathom but doesn't even scratch the surface when describing most financial crises.

Autumn 2007 was when the market for MBS, CDO's and other exotic housing derivatives froze up (remember the "credit crunch" is well contained propaganda ~ H. Paulson?). That precipitated a general crisis of confidence in all money markets that felled Bear Stearns in Spring '08 and crisis festered on until the stockmarkets finally collapsed, money markets funds stopped paying $1-$1 and ATM's were rumoured to have been hours away from shutting down in Autumn '08 ... whilst Lehman Brothers bellied up and all the major banks were basically shown to be trading whilst insolvent (they changed the laws around GAAP to stop them being criminally prosecuted for doing so).

Long story short, the next crisis will not be just a simple "stock market" crash. The entire global monetary system is so intertwined now with the risk being more concentrated, with centralisation of debt and leverage on the central bank balance sheets and consolidation of assets into fewer mega trading banks, that the monetary system as a whole will just freeze up in its entirety. The state of the stock market will be an addendum to the whole sorry saga. It may take a few days, weeks or maybe it will struggle on for a month or so, but if this puppy goes down now, it is not getting back up. The Martingale game being played out by the banksters since Greenspan begun the run by doubling down in 1987 has reached the ultimate conclusion ... the next bet is for all the marbles, the global monetary system has been bet on red, and it is only a matter of time before fate throws up a black.
1084  Bitcoin / Press / Re: [2014-04-07] What is the Carbon Footprint of a Bitcoin? on: April 09, 2014, 04:25:18 AM
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Why the fuck are you accusing me of whinging about a fantasy scare story?

Are you disputing my numbers with this statement or just hurling abuse?

Quote
What an unpleasant climate-change-denier you are.

I guess that is all the evidence I need, you are typical math denier ... from the paucity of numbers presented in any of your posts, but an excess of abuse and derogatory rhetoric, it's clear you have zero argument. We'll let the audience decide who is the "unpleasant denier", shall we?

1085  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: April 08, 2014, 10:36:58 PM
When Daniel wrote about the coming demise of alt coins, he based his premise on the importance of bitcoin's liquidity and market cap (http://themisescircle.org/blog/2014/03/14/the-coming-demise-of-the-altcoins/).  I think this was an important contribution, as it is waking people up to the reality that most alt coins will collapse.  

But Daniel missed one thing: bitcoin's market cap and liquidity are very important, but the most important thing is the record of wealth distribution encoded in the blockchain itself.  It's taken us 5 years, 3 crashes, and $600,000,000 of unrecoverable mining costs to get the coins distributed as they currently are.  The value of bitcoin is based on our shared agreement that the blockchain is right.  

Since the value is in the blockchain, any promising alt-coin can be cloned with a bitcoin-blockchain based wealth distribution.  Immediately the blockchain-based clone has more users and a more efficient wealth distribution.  Just the credible threat that this can be done will now slow the proliferation of new alts.  

Consider the coming IPO of Ethereum.  

I could create a clone called Šthereum which is functionally identical to Ethereum except for the initial distribution of coins.  One month after Ethereum IPOs, the unspent bitcoin outputs of block XXXXXX become the "nucleus" of Šthereum.  I publish this nucleus to the Šthereum.org website and give the community another month to confirm that the Šthereum nucleus has the identical coin distribution to the bitcoin wealth distribution at the agreed-upon point in time.  We correct any mistakes (there shouldn't be any except for maybe weird n-locktime transaction, etc).  

One month later, the "Šthereum nucleus" undergoes a big-bang event creating "Šther."  Bitcoin users can claim their Šther by signing an Šthereum address with their bitcoin private key.  The Šthereum network cross-checks the nucleus and confirms that the Šther is valid.  A new universe is born!

If I can very easily do this, and I see no reason why I can't as all the code is open source, why would anyone purchase ether when they get Šther for free?  

If there is any value in Ethereum (and I'm doubtful that Turing completeness is anything other than problematic) then it is in the code.  But the code is freely available.  Yet what you would be buying during the IPO is spots on the "Ethereum ledger."  Why would you do this when you already have a spot on the bitcoin ledger and thus the Šthereum ledger too?  

If we want to experiment with Turing completeness, let's just run it off the unspent bitcoin outputs and see what happens.  



... I agree a successful alt-coin would least need to have interchangeable unspent bitcoin outputs ... but would probably need to be merge-mined capable also ... so basically a fork (maybe not even hard), with some new features.
1086  Bitcoin / Press / Re: [2014-04-07] What is the Carbon Footprint of a Bitcoin? on: April 08, 2014, 08:31:26 PM
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Anyway, the amount of energy being consumed is small compared other sources of consumption. Assuming $1000 per bitcoin, $0.10 per kWH, and 1,314,900 bitcoins mined per year, a total of about 13 GWH is consumed each year. Compared to the 20 million GWH consumed each year by the entire world, that is minuscule. Even if the price rises to $10,000, it would still be less than 0.1% of the total energy consumption.

20,000 TW.h is probably an estimate of electricity only ... total global energy use is ~ 145,000 TW.h. (shipping, mining, trucking and military dwarf domestic consumption)

so @ $10,000/btc order of 0.00001% of current total energy consumption ... is that a "LOT"?

(at ridiculous $1 million/btc for 'conservative' carbon bigfoot class bitcoin, 0.001% of global total energy consumption).

therefore carbon footprint of bitcoin is pratically zero on any sensible relative scale.

TL;DR ... forget about it, guy needs to get a life and find something that is not a fantasy scare story to whinge about.


1087  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: I am going to build a true random number generator ... on: April 08, 2014, 08:09:36 PM
So gonna integrate it with a hardware wallet .. like Trezor for the off-line keygen part too?
1088  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: DarkWallet + Trezor = couple of the year? on: April 08, 2014, 07:35:09 PM
Watching.
1089  Bitcoin / Press / Re: [2014-04-07] What is the Carbon Footprint of a Bitcoin? on: April 07, 2014, 11:51:51 PM
A large proportion of electricity used by miners will be nuclear, hydro and geothermal, so zero "carbon footprints" observable (which itself is a BS pseduo-scientific cult mystery unit).

It is an imprecise unit, because there's a huge amount of variables when gauging the amount of CO2 something produces. Still, it's the best we have and it represents fairly well the impact on air quality that a process has.

Your emotive invocation of "air quality" regarding CO2 is wrong on at least 2 levels that I'm aware of. CO2 is a colourless, odourless, benign gas at concentrations up to ~1000ppm with standards safe levels set around there. Bitcoin mining is not going to affect "air quality" in the slightest, stop spreading FUD and demonstrating your scientific/engineering ignorance.
1090  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: I am going to build a true random number generator ... on: April 07, 2014, 11:06:53 PM
http://phys.org/news202456660.html

... be careful, there maybe periodic signals in there ...  Cheesy
1091  Bitcoin / Press / Re: [2014-04-07] What is the Carbon Footprint of a Bitcoin? on: April 07, 2014, 10:53:59 PM
However misleading the calculations are, it is undeniable that crypto mining is using a LOT of electricity and is not enviromentally friendly. I am not saying everyone should stop mining, but asic manufacturers should do more about power efficiency.  Embarrassed

... it is not a LOT of energy, e.g. global energy usage is at approx. 16 TeraWatts. [10^12] (I'll let you demonstrate the math that btc mining consumption is in fact a "LOT")

A large proportion of electricity used by miners will be nuclear, hydro and geothermal, so zero "carbon footprints" observable (which itself is a BS pseduo-scientific cult mystery unit).

1092  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Bitcoin Is Property Not Currency on: April 07, 2014, 10:35:23 PM
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Am I missing something?

... that you are clueless?
1093  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: FINCEN v IRS on: April 07, 2014, 10:59:48 AM
I never understood how putting someone in jail for not paying taxes made any sense.

Isn't it more expensive to jail someone then it is to not jail them. Your losing move money by jailing them.

This is a punishment and actually it does work well as most people are scared to get arrested and go to jail! So it's less expensive to keep some people in jail while other are trying to avoid it and so pay the bill as expected

It is also a sure sign of totalitarian tendencies of the political system manifesting themselves in the justice system since it criminalises legitimate civilian protest (the withdrawing financial support). Peaceful liberal democracies treat tax matters in civil courts not criminal courts.
1094  Economy / Speculation / Re: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. on: April 07, 2014, 04:11:55 AM
Derivatives are about to be unleashed on Bitcoin, so the problems gold has will become Bitcoin's. Yes it's becoming a big boy's game, and it'll be manipulated all the same.

The only difference is that investment must be saturated before it's fleeced. Bitcoin will have to go up a very long way until it's no longer the golden child of institutional giants.

I don't think the same games can be played as they are with PMs. Comex gold derivatives take advantage of the difficulty and expense of opting for physical delivery of gold contracts. There is no case to be made for the situation being the same for Bitcoin, and so if the Wall Street exchanges refuse or stall withdrawals, then they'll get tarred with the Gox moniker. Not to say that this won't happen, but I think the problems with Bitcoinica, Mt. Gox and Vicurex will be way too fresh in people's minds to permit recklessly large deposits on an exchange run in Wall Street (of all places, at this point in the history of that institution's reputation). Watch closely the language that gets used to describe their processes, if "withdrawal", "deposit" and "balance" are passed over for some other euphemisms, tread carefully, and deride loudly if necessary.

Any exchange that joins in with Second Market's 'hub and spoke' arrangement can expect to see some very guarded use of their deposit facilities. Sounds like a situation where mutual finger-pointing will replace meaningful responsibility if there was ever an issue.

I am fully anticipating many lolz when the 'wizards' of Wall St. get Goxxed in some way shape form when they show up in Bitcoinia and try their BS-finance crap around here.
1095  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 04, 2014, 08:49:49 AM
http://www.coindesk.com/new-texas-memorandum-outlines-initial-bitcoin-exchange-guidelines/

Bullish. Texas has just banged a very liberal stake in the ground re crypto-currency.

Regulatory arbitrage will lead to other states relaxing to, or bettering the Texan position to attract business.

There is no way NY or CA could now take tougher stances than this without looking anti-business, old-fashioned, anti-tech., etc, etc.

One of the real challenges I see is getting people to trade on any US exchange. It isn't happening much now. For an exchange to flourish, they are going to need to give major incentives, imo. Most bitcoiners do not trust the US government, for good reason.

I will cheer lead any US exchange that can grab big volume. I just think its going to be a challenge.

Unfortunately I think you are correct.

I'm not going anywhere near a US exchange until I can be sure that it is impenetrable to the NSA-IRS-FBI panopticon dragnet surveillance vampire squid ... and any business that values it's privacy should practice the same.

Trust is easy to expend but difficult to win back and in financial matters of confidence, trust is crucial (unless you can replace with crypto Smiley).
1096  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 04, 2014, 08:35:18 AM
http://www.coindesk.com/new-texas-memorandum-outlines-initial-bitcoin-exchange-guidelines/

Bullish. Texas has just banged a very liberal stake in the ground re crypto-currency.

Regulatory arbitrage will lead to other states relaxing to, or bettering the Texan position to attract business.

There is no way NY or CA could now take tougher stances than this without looking anti-business, old-fashioned, anti-tech., etc, etc.
1097  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2014-04-02 Xerox Experimenting with Bitcoin on: April 04, 2014, 05:48:13 AM
Possibly for routing around surveillance of data lines using the wiretapping and eavesdropping legal protections for voice lines?
1098  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2014-03-13 statisticaleconomics.org Quantifying the Value of Bitcoin on: April 03, 2014, 08:43:20 PM
bitcoin thermodynamics  Cheesy
1099  Bitcoin / Press / Re: [2014-04-02] Bank of Montreal open to Bitcoin on: April 03, 2014, 08:33:53 PM
Kind of two-faced to come out in support now after ruining the livelihood of some previous intrepid entrepreneurs who they had accepted business from and then pulled the rug oot from under.

I'd stay away from them until they demonstrate less craven tendencies and schizophrenic about turns.
1100  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: For those of you who say governments can't ban bitcoin on: April 03, 2014, 08:30:57 PM
...
Look at what happened with online poker a decade ago. Government got involved, seized bank accounts, forbid banks from doing business with online gambling sites, etc etc.

They didn't have to go after individuals to cripple something, they go after the big institutions.

So for bitcoin, if they want individuals to comply with laws, they could set up an agency where you have to register your bitcoin addresses with (and possibly give them access to freeze/seize your funds if they deem necessary). If you don't have a valid registration with that agency, banks will not allow you to do any transactions related to bitcoin (eg, wire transfer to an exchange). The government would use the banking system to enforce their laws.

That would probably make both governments and banks both unpopular and unsuccessful.
Big institutions are a no-no in the bitcoin sphere. Something a lot of people doesn't seem to get.

The US Govt and the US banking system is incredibly unpopular. Look at the crappy congress approval ratings, and how many people are angry about what wall street and the big banks did. But they're very successful. The US Govt is still in power, and the US Banking system still has control over the economy.

Big institutions are already in the bitcoin sphere. What do you call CEX.io who has 1/4 of the network hash power? What do you call bitstamp and the other big exchanges that handle the bulk of trading volume? They have huge influence over the bitcoin economy.

If black/red-listing (aka, tainting) can be arranged in a way which is even a little bit credible, I believe that it would open the door for such registration.  This because large institutions (Google/Facebook, Overstock/TigerDirect, etc) can be forced to honor it and it will rapidly create fungibility problems for everybody.  And also, of course, that forced registration would in and of itself change the nature of Bitcoin beyond recognition.

That's not what I was getting at though. Forcing people to register/provide access to their wallets to a govt agency makes it possible for the govt to seize your coins.

You make it sound like USA has a Police State problem.
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