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461  Economy / Economics / Re: Current Bitcoin economic model is unsustainable on: July 21, 2010, 08:37:58 PM
Noone knows the identities of who the coins belong to, but they do know that they belong to "some entity".  The first transaction in each block says "Ok everyone, listen up:  Someone from address asd;lkfjads;lfkjasd;lfjkasd;fj owns 50 new bitcoins, even though it didn't come from anyone else."  This doesn't reveal the persons identity, but it DOES reveal when they were created.  Looking back to see when the bitcoins were released to the public, and when the first coin was generated, we can see if the developers left coin generation on for a long time to develop a monopoly.
462  Economy / Economics / Re: Current Bitcoin economic model is unsustainable on: July 21, 2010, 08:17:50 PM

However, as with a ponzi pyramid they could have stacked the early deck and no one can know. I'm not making any accusations here or casting aspersions.

No, they couldn't have, not without us knowing.  The block record shows the creation and time stamp of every coin.  They couldn't have started it for 4 years, and then release it, as it would show up in the block chain as having started 4 years ago.  If they tried to fake it to get themselves more coins, every other client would have rejected it.  The source code is open source, so we can verify that there's nothing shifty going on with the verifying of coins (if(developer) accept(); else verify(); or something)
463  Other / Off-topic / Re: I want a Progress Quest Bitcoin Client on: July 21, 2010, 07:53:29 PM
Better yet, why not make Idle-RPG the bootstrapper! haha
464  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: An obvious question I don't see asked anywhere on: July 21, 2010, 07:52:52 PM
Ah, didn't know that.  Good thing I don't need to pay taxes yet. ^.^
465  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: An obvious question I don't see asked anywhere on: July 21, 2010, 07:37:03 PM
It's not a recognized currency, and thus must not be marked as income.  However, once you trade from bitcoins to USD, you must declare it as income.
466  Other / Off-topic / Re: The Wolf Game, 18 player slots remaining on: July 21, 2010, 07:18:52 PM

In other words, Count me in.
467  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Bitcoin x64 for Windows on: July 21, 2010, 06:17:35 PM
Ichi: I got 2 blocks in a row back when I was running 1200khash.  I'm up to 2500 now, as per the update, so we'll see if I get some more blocks. =)
468  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Beagleboard / OMAP3530 test binaries available on: July 21, 2010, 05:59:36 PM
=P Now get to work on an android version. =P
469  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: blkindex.dat on: July 21, 2010, 05:33:39 PM
Yup, until the last bitcoin user stops using the service, or some other "shutdown condition", the file will continue to grow as new blocks are generated roughly ever 10 minutes.  If we were to stop generating blocks at some point, we would stop being able to perform transactions.

(Granted, I'm not 100% sure that this is where the blocks are stored, but I'm assuming it is.)
470  Economy / Economics / Re: competing bitcoins on: July 21, 2010, 05:02:30 PM
=P I'm quite aware of local-maxima phenomenon.  I was simply defending the current system as not "arbitrarily difficult".  Each aspect of the solution has a purpose.  Whether said solution is the best was not what I was debating.  If you've got an alternative, feel free to share.
471  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: blkindex.dat on: July 21, 2010, 05:00:23 PM
As of right now, if blkindex is where the blocks are stored, then the file will grow infinitely large over infinite time.
472  Economy / Economics / Re: competing bitcoins on: July 21, 2010, 04:01:47 PM
I reacted poorly to what I deemed to be an arrogant attitude.  If that was not your intention, I apologize for being so quick to bristle.  Arrogance (even just perceived arrogance) is not something I deal well with. >_>

As for securely transferring a number, this is done with efficiency.  However, in order to guard against duplicate announcements, desynchronized clocks, verifiable history, and specifically malicious users (which, in any computer system, you must assume there will be no end to the malicious attacks), you have to have a stronger framework than simply "transferring a number securely and announcing it."
473  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A bitcoin game. on: July 21, 2010, 03:38:42 PM
If speed is the issue (Oy, I'm stuck in limerick mode and almost rhymed here >.<), just lower the k/hashes.  Focus on even 10 hashes a second, and get the game viral.  Wouldn't make MUCH money off of it, but it'd be some, which you could augment with in game micropayments.  The key is that you're making (some) money off BOTH your userbases: free and paying.

On a semi-related note, the bitcoin generation thing would also work for a desktop game, and probably more effectively.  Develop an awesome game that people can play, and in the background run k/hashing.  Then, give the game out for free.  People love a free/super cheap game (Portal, Plants vs Zombies, Alien Swarm), the problem is making said games profitable.

Make the game an iPhone/android/PC title, and you've got hundreds of thousands of people generating bitcoins for your bank account, and the bitcoin network just became that much more impervious to people like nenalod or whatever his name is.
474  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Panhandling on: July 21, 2010, 03:32:37 PM
Fun or competition,
dumb or erudition,
the nature of rhyme
while we're passing the time
is a worthwhile admission.
475  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Panhandling on: July 21, 2010, 02:40:27 PM
Sweat and employment aside,
For a while, this thread I have eyed,
For all the good meant,
I still quietly lament
for Limericks so pitiful I cried.


(Also, I know I'm probably not following the "official" limerick metering, but ah well.)
476  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Legal Tender on: July 21, 2010, 01:25:05 PM
I guess once all the coins have been generated the energy usage will drop significantly,unless the amount of coins ever changes....

Sad thing is that there isn't an "end" to coin generation..... the new coin blocks simply become worth less and less over time.  If deflation of Bitcoins outstrips the drop in coin value, however, the new coin blocks in terms of relative worth may actually continue to increase over time even with this drop in direct value.  That is why I've been using the lottery example, as with a very large network it would become like a major lottery for whoever actually got the next block.  Perhaps eventually there will be people who aren't interested in the coin generation feature, but they still will be interested in the trades.  That will only cause the "value" of generated coins to be all that more valuable.

I do wonder what the taxes on a Bitcoin block worth more than $1 million on the exchanges would be like in terms of a government demanding "their share" of either those bitcoins or the conversion of those coins into "real world" money to pay those taxes.  Considering a new Bitcoin block is currently worth 3.5 (via, even now it isn't a trivial matter.

Of course this is very off-topic on a thread about legal tender.

Due to the 8 places of divisibility, there will actually be a last "coin generating" block (someone else figured it out).  However, there WILL be transaction fees to further incentivize block generation.
477  Economy / Economics / Re: competing bitcoins on: July 21, 2010, 01:21:22 PM
It was just as arbitrary for the people who would follow gold rushes.  Some would strike a huge vein, others would spend months without finding so much as a gold flake.  Granted, this could be increased by putting more effort into it, or cooperating and splitting the dividends.  Which you can do in bitcoin.

Correct. Transferring a number securely and announcing a new number to take its place requires rather little in the way of computational resources.

This quote in particular demonstrates you're not aware of the reasoning behind satoshi's choices.

Take some time to learn how mathematics and security works, get rid of the Holier-than-thou, "I'm just here for shits and giggles" attitude, then come back.
478  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A bitcoin game. on: July 21, 2010, 12:39:51 PM
Of course those people could also have their own bitcoin its not like they wont also benefit Cheesy.I like the way youre thinking many khash's would a low level javascript bitcoin generator be able to run?

Probably not very many, but even .1k/hash on a decently popular game, with the userbase of facebook, would be quite a bit.
479  Economy / Economics / Re: competing bitcoins on: July 20, 2010, 11:32:50 PM
How much do you actually understand about the system, Some Mouse?  Calling it a "giant rube goldberg machine" demonstrates a very poor understanding of the mathematics and verification that the system uses.  It's not just some "arbitrary crunching of numbers".  As for the 10 minutes vs 1 minute, lowering said limit exponentially increases the ease by which someone can invalidate the system.  Satoshi simply chose 10 minutes to strike a balance between unreasonable transaction confirmation times and unreasonable instability and spoof-ability.
480  Economy / Economics / Re: competing bitcoins on: July 20, 2010, 06:23:41 PM
Which is basically why I was thinking of creating a competitor that gave out its currency based on maintaining accurate accounting for transactions. The value is then derived from the integrity of the transaction itself.

That's exactly where the bitcoins come from.  Solving a block "verifies" transactions, making the community as a whole confident in the system.  Thus, you are awarded 50 bitcoins in exchange for, effectively, the "confidence" you just "sold".
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