Can you explain why the new Lloyds TSB account is owned by a new shell company called "Interteni LTD" ? Does Lloyds TSB know who they're really dealing with?
Yes they do. As stated here, it is a temporary company as Intersango LTD is owned by multiple share-holders who have to be present to open the account or be available to a notary abroad. That takes time, but we fully intend to switch the account from Interteni LTD to Intersango LTD in the future. Right now, there are more pressing matters. Interteni LTD (company number: 07826131) under the Companies Act 2006. Intersango LTD (company number: 07683978) under the Companies Act 2006. The certificate of incorporation for Intersango is available on our about us page, and the one for Interteni should be available later today. For now you can download it from here. We are required before opening the bank account to divulge all information and I was completely open about our activities. The manager was told about http://intersango.com and the full details of Bitcoin Consultancy's operations (which I drew her some diagrams of our company structure to explain to her colleagues). Considering that the Lloyds bank manager was extremely displeased at our prior treatment and took several photocopies of our past statements and letters, they know we are the same people behind Intersango LTD. Our website is on their records, and for us to lie or falsify information is highly illegal and would put me at risk of jailtime. Thanks for the explanation 
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HSBC problems
Lloyds TSB new account
Earlier this year, we were banking with Lloyds TSB before being asked to take our business elsewhere. We have been in contact with Lloyds TSB who have assigned us a personal account manager who is also the manager of the bank branch. It turned out the previous account manager was ill equipped to handle the scale of our volume and is a person in a call centre in Birmingham, and sees 300+ accounts a day. This time around we've been assigned a manager who handles 30 accounts a month due to the complicated nature of our operations and the scale of our turnover.
Lloyds TSB were very keen to have our operations back, and a formal complaint has been launched by the bank staff at the way we were dealt with. We were told that our treatment was totally unacceptable as we're a high value customer.
We are accepting deposits again with Lloyds TSB (details can be found on the GBP accounts page). Deposits may be a little slower than usual (possibly up to a week) as registration for their online service is underway. Once that's done, we'll be processing deposits immediately. Withdrawals may take longer as we are in the midst of transitioning out of HSBC into Lloyds. We are also in talks with a few other banks who have shown a sudden interest in our business.
Can you explain why the new Lloyds TSB account is owned by a new shell company called "Interteni LTD" ? Does Lloyds TSB know who they're really dealing with?
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If you're creating an orphaned block then you wouldn't get the 50btc... so your whole reward would be the stolen coins. [/quote] For this scam to work, your block must get orphaned. It's a possibility still that your block would get picked up by the next miner/pool who solves a block, in which case, your attack didn't work, but you got the 50 btc. [/quote]
There is actually a simple way to still keep the 50btc - you just need to pay it to the mybitcoin depodit address that your other funds are being sent too.. then, assuming mybitcoin accepts it, you get to keep the 50BTC also.
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Does anyone see a pattern here?
Obvious to me, stolen bitcoins are being dumped on the market right now. Why else the major price swing all of the sudden?
Is there any other logical explanation for this occurring at this time?
It would actually make more sense for mybitcoin to have been gradually selling off the bitcoins *before* shutting down the site. Maybe most of them were sold a month ago when the price hit $30.
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Let's say I am an owner of gold and a seller of gold certificates. People would like to use gold, but it's hard to buy and sell things with it. I am honest; and trusted (people already buy my certificates).
snip
This would be utterly pointless. If people have to rely on a central counterparty to redeem their certificates for gold (or anything else - people have proposed that share registries might be maintained in a bitcoin block chain but again that would be pointless) that central counterparty might as well maintain the database of who owns what. There's no benefit to having a complicated distributed database like bitcoin for that when all the risk is already concentrated in a central counterparty. If your central counterparty is going got cheat you then they will. If the government forces the central counterparty to take some action then they will. It doesn't make a damn bit of difference if the central counterparty keeps the records of who owns what in a simple spreadsheet.
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Ahh Ok. I think I get it. Interesting.. so if you wante to be a real bastard you could just not submit the 'good' hashes and still get paid almost as much.. but there's no financial incentive to do that since it would be worthless to you..hmmm..
Yes, the address that the block reward will be paid into is already baked into the work that the pool sends to you. There is no way of changing it without changing the hash, which would ruin the "good" hash. The system is clean. No way to mess with it, no trust required. Besides hoping that the pool pays you your fair share that is. You could hold it back, but why? Well here's one scenario that just came to me.. A rival pool operator seeking to drive another pool out of business could setup a sort of proxying setup where their own users are actually processing work from the other pool. They the withhold all the payout hashes but submit all the others to the pool they're trying to kill. That way the other pool is mostly paying for it's own destruction. The payout address is baked into the work. If the evil pool changed it, they couldn't submit the hashed to the good pool. If they don't change it, then submitting that hash to the network would pay the original address, which belongs to the good pool. It doesn't work. I understand that. It doesn't matter. The victim pool would pay the evil pool because of the non-payout hashes they submitted. They would turn around and repay that money to their users who were doing the work. In the middle, they strip out all the payout hashes that their users found. It doesn't help them but it hurts the victim.
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Ahh Ok. I think I get it. Interesting.. so if you wante to be a real bastard you could just not submit the 'good' hashes and still get paid almost as much.. but there's no financial incentive to do that since it would be worthless to you..hmmm..
Yes, the address that the block reward will be paid into is already baked into the work that the pool sends to you. There is no way of changing it without changing the hash, which would ruin the "good" hash. The system is clean. No way to mess with it, no trust required. Besides hoping that the pool pays you your fair share that is. You could hold it back, but why? Well here's one scenario that just came to me.. A rival pool operator seeking to drive another pool out of business could setup a sort of proxying setup where their own users are actually processing work from the other pool. They the withhold all the payout hashes but submit all the others to the pool they're trying to kill. That way the other pool is mostly paying for it's own destruction.
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You submit all of your share back. The shares are blocks that work at the "minimum difficulty", but not necessarily the "current difficulty". You get paid based on how many valid shares you produce compared to others. The shares can and are checked, and they prove you've been doing work. They don't just trust you on it.
The minimum difficulty requires several million hashes. The way we usually denote the current difficulty is by dividing it by the minimum difficulty to indicate how many shares you'd need to find, on average, as opposed to how many hashes.
The only way they could check your share then would be to submit it to another miner (or reprocess it themselves I guess).. so almost the same thing but I guess they can do it on invalid blocks as well as valid ones. No they check your share by doing that one hash, on the server. Just a single one. Even a crap card can do 5,000,000 hashes a second, so they have no problem checking all the hashes themselves. Basically, we search for sort of rare hashes, and submit them, they check them, proving that we are doing work (because they are indeed sort of rare) and sometimes it'll be a really rare hash that solver a block. Then everyone gets paid by how many sort of rare attempts they sent. Because we only submit rare ones, they don't have to do very much work at all, we already weed out the vast majority, and they satisfy themselves that we really did work because otherwise we wouldn't have rare hashes to show them. Ahh Ok. I think I get it. Interesting.. so if you wante to be a real bastard you could just not submit the 'good' hashes and still get paid almost as much.. but there's no financial incentive to do that since it would be worthless to you..hmmm..
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You submit all of your share back. The shares are blocks that work at the "minimum difficulty", but not necessarily the "current difficulty". You get paid based on how many valid shares you produce compared to others. The shares can and are checked, and they prove you've been doing work. They don't just trust you on it.
The minimum difficulty requires several million hashes. The way we usually denote the current difficulty is by dividing it by the minimum difficulty to indicate how many shares you'd need to find, on average, as opposed to how many hashes.
The only way they could check your share then would be to submit it to another miner (or reprocess it themselves I guess).. so almost the same thing but I guess they can do it on invalid blocks as well as valid ones.
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So I did the math and given difficulty increases, I was fairly confidant that I would never solve a block with my current hashing power. Working with a pool I expected the limit of bitcoins I would ever make would be between 25 and 35. It seemed that if I solo mined, there was a > 70% chance that I would never solve a single block.
And then I hit one. I was thinking, oh man, guess I got lucky, too bad, hindsight, still unlikely blah blah blah. And then I hit another one...
So now I could have mined 100+ bitcoins, but instead I'll only ever mine about 30. Luck is a cruel, cruel mistress. I still think I made the right choice... maybe.
Actually I think there's a fairly simple explanation for this. The only way the mining pools can tell if you're cheating them is by randomly sending you a range of work to solve that they already know contains a coin and make sure that you actually find it. Perhaps they do this more frequently when you first join the pool. I thought mining pool could simply check the nonce I send with their block hash to ensure it is a valid share (at the minimum difficulty), proving that I'm doing work. I don't think they need such tricks. My understanding of how pooled mining works is; The miners repeatidly request new work from the pool. If they find a block then they submit the solution. If they don't find any solution then they don't submit anything back. Alot of miners will never find a solution to anything during the entire time that they're a member of the pool (but still receive regular payouts of course) Unless the pools perform random spot checks on their miners by sometimes sending the same work that was recently found to contain a valid block, I don't see how they can tell the difference between someone repeatidly requesting more work and tossing it into /dev/null and someone actually working on it. I haven't looked that much into pooled mining though so maybe I am missing something.
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So I did the math and given difficulty increases, I was fairly confidant that I would never solve a block with my current hashing power. Working with a pool I expected the limit of bitcoins I would ever make would be between 25 and 35. It seemed that if I solo mined, there was a > 70% chance that I would never solve a single block.
And then I hit one. I was thinking, oh man, guess I got lucky, too bad, hindsight, still unlikely blah blah blah. And then I hit another one...
So now I could have mined 100+ bitcoins, but instead I'll only ever mine about 30. Luck is a cruel, cruel mistress. I still think I made the right choice... maybe.
Actually I think there's a fairly simple explanation for this. The only way the mining pools can tell if you're cheating them is by randomly sending you a range of work to solve that they already know contains a coin and make sure that you actually find it. Perhaps they do this more frequently when you first join the pool.
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1. Most important to understand is that a perfectly natural system for distributing a cryptocurrency in a fair, envy-less way exists. There is no need for a cryptocurrency to have an artificial limit. There will be inflation, yes. The second coin will cause 100% inflation, the 3rd coin 50%, the 4th coin 33%, etc. If inflation kicks in, mining will become less attractive and will be supported by mainly transaction fees (that are not newly created coins and don't drive up inflation further).
It wouldn't be envy-less at all.. Soon enough the mining will be far beyond the means of the average joe (and thus the new coins would flow to an oligarchy anyway).. an inflationary system just means the miners get to tax savings as well as people actively transacting.. worse still, unlike the transaction fee system where transactees get to offer how much they want to pay for their transaction (and risk it not being processed), you would have a built in fixed rate of taxation that doesn't respond to market conditions. Please see my post #14 in this thread for what I meant by envy-less. And for me that concludes this thread, I feel I've said what needed be said and am starting to repeat myself. Thank you all for your kind attention. If you have more questions, remarks or whatever, feel free to contact me at http://bitcoinforum.org. Here's your post #14; 50% Or more will not be early adopters -> 50% or more will have envy -> 50% or more will have 50% of the computer power necessary to create the longest chain
Please do tell me my mistake?
In that case your mistake is just that 50% of the computer power is going to be controlled by the top 1%, not more than 50% of the participants. Over time the computing power will become more and more concentrated and less and less 'fair'. There would be no 'fair distribution' of the coin inflation/taxation it would mostly flow to the top few percent of miners. Your system allows the top few percent of miners to tax the entire userbase at a fixed rate of taxation/inflation that they can't negotiate (as they can now with the transaction fees). This would be much less fair than the current system.
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1. Most important to understand is that a perfectly natural system for distributing a cryptocurrency in a fair, envy-less way exists. There is no need for a cryptocurrency to have an artificial limit. There will be inflation, yes. The second coin will cause 100% inflation, the 3rd coin 50%, the 4th coin 33%, etc. If inflation kicks in, mining will become less attractive and will be supported by mainly transaction fees (that are not newly created coins and don't drive up inflation further).
It wouldn't be envy-less at all.. Soon enough the mining will be far beyond the means of the average joe (and thus the new coins would flow to an oligarchy anyway).. an inflationary system just means the miners get to tax savings as well as people actively transacting.. worse still, unlike the transaction fee system where transactees get to offer how much they want to pay for their transaction (and risk it not being processed), you would have a built in fixed rate of taxation that doesn't respond to market conditions.
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Does anyone have any forsale? 
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From today's Financial Times article, which itself is quoting New Scientist: What Bitcoin lacks is “a clear attribution of a guarantor for every unit of currency”, says Ashish Goel of Stanford University, who is developing his own peer-to-peer currency model. “In centralised currencies such as the US dollar, guarantors are governments. For P2P currencies, it should be individuals.”Did a very quick google search and couldn't find any more information, but according to his Stanford University page he also serves on the technical advisory board for Twitter. Could be interesting! That doesn't really sound much like a 'currency'. If each unit has a different guarantor of variable quality then each unit would have to be valued differently.
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slush's pool has about 18% of the current network - and (although he's recently removed the 'connected miner' number) probably about 4-5,000 mining accounts. many are multiple accounts - so call it 2,500 individuals.
extrapolating, that would be about 12,000 miners for the entire network.
now... how many use the system, but don't mine? a tougher number to estimate.
my suspicion is not as many, but growing much faster than the mining segment.
so... my pure, wild-ass guess - without anything particularly factual behind it - is something on the order of 25,000.
by the end of summer, i'd expect that to triple. or more. i think that right now is the make or break moment for Bitcoin.
20 USD/BTC by the end of july is a lock.
I checked my addr.dat file a few days ago and found over 130,000 unique IPs, so I think 25,000 is probably nowhere close.
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DNS does not completely replace IRC, as its database can only be updated by the maintainer, not by everyone.
There's not much difference between these two, as a channel operator can ban/filter addresses and an IRCop can alter the server to return basically anything. For both you need to trust the maintainer not to tamper with the service. If you want the clients to dynamically add their addresses to the bootstrapping service, you can do this with DNS, too. E.g. set up a DNS server that accepts DNS UPDATE (RFC2136) to add new records (obviously deny delete attempts and purge outdated entries from time to time). Or set up a tiny UDP update service additionally to DNS where clients can submit their address to the database. Here's my proposal for how a better DNS bootstrapping mechanism could work. Each client could resolve a special dns name such as u5MGeZm2ktRwMNV.bootstrap.ve where u5MGeZm2ktRwMNV is the same as the nickname used on IRC and encodes the host/port of the querying client. The DNS server in response to this query would reply with a list of some number of verified bootstrap nodes. Rather than returning a simple DNS A record, the DNS server could reply with an SRV record specifying the port number as well as the address. The server would then add u5MGeZm2ktRwMNV to a queue of nodes to be verified and subsequently it would appear as a reply to someone else's request. Perhaps if I have time I'll hack up an implementation of this.
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I haven't been having very good luck with the random IRC channels. Each of the random channels joined didn't have enough other clients attached. Eventually, I just modified bitcoind to connect to good old #bitcoin instead, and now everything is peachy. Perhaps the client should join multiple channels until enough folks have upgraded to the random channel-using clients?
It will be fine once the build is actually released and people start using it.. right now it's only the early adopters who are mostly already bootstrapped.
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There are people making statements beginning with "Now that bitcoin is getting big..." I think comments may be misleading to newcomers. Bitcoin is often criticized for being nothing but hype. Although it's impossible to know exactly how many bitcoin users there are, a chart in this post suggests that there might be approximately 20 thousand active bitcoin users. The wikipedia article for PayPal reports that Paypal has 87 million active accounts. And this recent article reports that they have 100 million accounts. If we take the 100 million number for Paypal, the bitcoin user base is roughly 0.02% the size of PayPal's. Bitcoin is very much in its infancy, but certainly has a lot of promise. Bitcoin has the potential to reach users that are excluded from the PayPal system because they have no accessing to the existing global financial network. The post you quoted is from February. The numbers have certainly grown since then.. perhaps 60,000 users.. so 0.06% as large as paypal. It would be nice if someone could post some up-to-date numbers though.
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Bad Peers:I ran a few searches across the forum but could not find an answer to this: How does the Bitcoin client handle bad peers (Other than rejecting bad TX and Blocks)? If this functionality is not already built into the client, I would like to suggest this simple approach that frees up connections with bad peers: If PEER_IP sends more than REJECT_THRESHOLD malicious transactions or blocks within past 24 hours, Ban(PEER_IP) for 24 hours.Net Neutrality:Many countries around the world have poor record on net neutrality, with selective blocking and government-run snooping programs. Recent case in point: Egypt. I wholeheartedly throw my newbie support behind Madhatter's recommendations to: - Use SSL connections
- Randomizing ports at start-up
- Populating SSL connect descriptors as "Apache" and "Firefox / Internet Explorer"
Thank you! SSL probably isn't useful here since it relies on a trusted certificate (if you include a cert/key with the client it can be extracted, if you don't there's nothing to trust). Obfuscating the bitcoin protocol so that it can't be easily identified might not be a bad idea... then again, it works over tor.. that might be good enough.
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