Simple question - will I ever be able to store my bitcoin with an organisation who will provide secure storage for it, whilst at the same time allow me easy access to it (like a bank currently does with my cash)?

In the past, online-wallet sites have been untrustworthy. We all know that... Is it ever going to change? What does it take to be considered both trustworthy and secure?

People (especially non-geeks) would definitely go for this, and would gladly pay a fee to have someone look after their bitcoin if it reduced the risk of loosing it due to n00bness or a virus or whatever. (Who could currently safetly store even $100K in cash without a bank? Not many people I don't think)

What does it take to have an entity that can provide this sort of thing - security and trust being the two biggest hurdles as far as I can tell. How does this 'bank' become trusted? And can it ever be truly 'secure' eg social engineering etc.

Will it ever happen? Are there fundamental reasons why it won't?

Very few people keep suitcases of cash or bars of gold either at home or even under their own security offsite etc, yet bitcoin as it stands expects people to do this. Seems kinda strange nobody has been able to offer this service yet.

In a thread about marketing bitcoin... this kind of user experience is not marketable. Who wants to make one of three choices at a checkout?! Most people just want to buy their shit.

Better marketing for bitcoin in this case would be 'buy with paypal' button next to 'buy with bitcoin' button and both are equally easy to use. That would be marketable. I reckon people would be more tempted to use bitcoin if that were the case. Offering a complex set of discount options is not what people want at the checkout and only heightens the 'bitcoin is complex' image.

This is that post:

I would approach this the Socratic way, by asking questions to help the person realise by understanding rather than just trying to impart your knowledge directly to them.

Is fiat money a scam? (of course you expect to hear a resounding 'no')
Is it a scam that governments and banks can print as much money as they want?
Is it a scam that because of that, fiat money is worth less in the future than in the past, eroding the value your savings which you worked hard for?
Do you really think that people, when given the power to print money, will not abuse it?
Who regulates the printing of money? Do they do a good job of it?
Is it a scam that there are a few powerful people pulling the levers of the economy?
Are you happy with a few people telling you what is valuable and what is not? Because that's essentially what fiat money leads to.

What are the benefits of gold as money?
All those benefits are why bitcoin is also good compared to fiat money.
What drawbacks are there to using gold?
Bitcoin has solved those problems also.

Are shares a scam?
Why not?
What about if you bought apple or google shares when they just started up, is that a scam? Why not?
Are shares in [valuable but socially/environmentally damaging company] a scam?
These are exactly the same reasons bitcoin is not a scam.

Is paying with cash a scam?
Why not?
What is good about paying with cash?
All the reasons you like cash are true of bitcoin also.
What is bad about paying with cash?
Bitcoin has solved this as well.

Do you know about (any of the more advanced economic things such as options, futures, derivatives)?
How many people in the general population understand these concepts? (not many)
Does that make it a scam? (no)
Why not? (they could find out if they wanted, the detail doesn't need to be known about by most people... etc)
Same is true of bitcoin but moreso, because the basis of it, the code, has been reviewed by experts and validated as not being a scam - if it were a scam it would be apparent in the code immediately and nobody would support it at all.

Do you ever get spam from Nigeria?
If it said [the name of the bank of the person you are talking to] in that email, would you say [their bank] is a scam?
The same is true of the services surrounding bitcoin - just because a third party is untrustworthy, it does not mean the core concept is broken, just that the services surrounding it needed to improve, which they have.

Ultimately the value of something reflects the value of it to society. Or rather, it SHOULD do that. Fiat money greatly clouds these issues because it funds unpopular wars, undesirable corporations, and excessive bureaucracy. Bitcoin is not a scam because it allows the true value of goods and services to be reflected in their price.

Of course if you don't know your shit you can get your arse handed to you, and even if you do know your shit you will be into a rollicking argument very quickly, but these are all interesting questions that should at least begin to impart doubt into the minds of people who think bitcoin is a scam. At the very least it will hopefully make them realise it's no LESS of a scam than any/most other monetary systems.

Excellent idea, it's handy to have it sit around as a reminder on the table rather than a video in a browser window which gets closed and forgotten.

Not sure if the hot babe is such a good image to front the brochure, I would have thought a contemplative small-businessman or even a guy in a suit would have better suited. Not sure what your target market is, but perhaps have several versions of it with various images so that (for example) I don't have to give my sister who runs a small business a copy of a hot 'callgirl' babe on the front.

Also the examples you provide via web links of existing businesses using bitcoin is great, and necessary to validate the concept, however two links to the same gambling site in the one brochure gives the wrong impression - most target audiences that I know of would prefer not to see any reference to gambling businesses, and having two identical links makes it look like the brochure is biased toward that one gambling business, and gives too heavy a bias to that side of bitcoin in the audiences mind.

But on the whole an excellent idea and very nicely executed. Some various options so people can choose the most appropriate brochure for their target audience would be really great.

tl;dr - please give a variety of cover images, and provide a variety of example business links (ie non-gambling)

Thanks... and this post should bring me up to the needed count.

Would love for this post to be moved to the appropriate thread, and hopefully it's evidence enough I'm not a bot and can be whitelisted at the same time.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54780.msg663017#msg663017

I also want to reply to this thread

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=55729.0


I would approach this the Socratic way, by asking questions to help the person realise by understanding rather than just trying to impart your knowledge directly to them.

Is fiat money a scam? (of course you expect to hear a resounding 'no')
Is it a scam that governments and banks can print as much money as they want?
Is it a scam that because of that, fiat money is worth less in the future than in the past, eroding the value your savings which you worked hard for?
Do you really think that people, when given the power to print money, will not abuse it?
Who regulates the printing of money? Do they do a good job of it?
Is it a scam that there are a few powerful people pulling the levers of the economy?
Are you happy with a few people telling you what is valuable and what is not? Because that's essentially what fiat money leads to.

What are the benefits of gold as money?
All those benefits are why bitcoin is also good compared to fiat money.
What drawbacks are there to using gold?
Bitcoin has solved those problems also.

Are shares a scam?
Why not?
What about if you bought apple or google shares when they just started up, is that a scam? Why not?
Are shares in [valuable but socially/environmentally damaging company] a scam?
These are exactly the same reasons bitcoin is not a scam.

Is paying with cash a scam?
Why not?
What is good about paying with cash?
All the reasons you like cash are true of bitcoin also.
What is bad about paying with cash?
Bitcoin has solved this as well.

Do you know about (any of the more advanced economic things such as options, futures, derivatives)?
How many people in the general population understand these concepts? (not many)
Does that make it a scam? (no)
Why not? (they could find out if they wanted, the detail doesn't need to be known about by most people... etc)
Same is true of bitcoin but moreso, because the basis of it, the code, has been reviewed by experts and validated as not being a scam - if it were a scam it would be apparent in the code immediately and nobody would support it at all.

Do you ever get spam from Nigeria?
If it said [the name of the bank of the person you are talking to] in that email, would you say [their bank] is a scam?
The same is true of the services surrounding bitcoin - just because a third party is untrustworthy, it does not mean the core concept is broken, just that the services surrounding it needed to improve, which they have.

Ultimately the value of something reflects the value of it to society. Or rather, it SHOULD do that. Fiat money greatly clouds these issues because it funds unpopular wars, undesirable corporations, and excessive bureaucracy. Bitcoin is not a scam because it allows the true value of goods and services to be reflected in their price.

Of course if you don't know your shit you can get your arse handed to you, and even if you do know your shit you will be into a rollicking argument very quickly, but these are all interesting questions that should at least begin to impart doubt into the minds of people who think bitcoin is a scam. At the very least it will hopefully make them realise it's no LESS of a scam than any/most other monetary systems.

Trying to get my post count up so I can post about graphing some bitcoin data. I reckon bitcoincharts is a great website but there's some extra stuff I'd like to see so will try to make some charts. Some non-market specific stuff, and some general information-is-beautiful type infographics.

Hi new to the forum hoping to post in the dev section