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Hi everyone,
I think the following things need to be pointed out about the blockchain.
1. It's stupidly huge and something needs to be done about that.
2. If you expect btc to be a real-world currency then it's going to get even more stupidly huge with more use.
3. It takes forever to download it, which puts off new users.
4. It's a Berkeley DB... ugh.
If I'm wrong, please correct me... but I think the blockchain needs to be changed so that it's more user-friendly, dev-friendly and efficient.
edit: I posted this in the Bitcoin Discussion forum because I wanted to discuss the effect of the huge blockchain on new users' adoption of bitcoin.
You make more than 500 posts and you dont know about block chain trimming? really? |
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I think our best luck would be with the occupy wall-street crowd. They are fast growing, technology minded, and willing to move for their cause. They are not Libertarians, so our arguments should not be 'Its like gold' or 'the government doesn't control it', we should take the peoples currency route, all the current payment solutions, other can cash, require large corporations. If we present bitcoin as an alternative to corporate-controlled credit cards and paypal then i think we could bring some serious attention to Bitcoin. Furthermore this should probably be our approach all around, its generally easier to inspire passion and distaste against corporations then it is against the government. Bitcoin needs to be marketed as a replacement for credit cards, not cash, that's something we have to take on later, much much later.
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Is there any exact date or even month when this should happen? If I have understood it correctly, it should happen at the end of next year (Dec 2012?), has anyone calculated on a more accurate date?
Its nearly impossible to quote accurately right now, as we get closer quotes will become more accurate. If more miners come into the system it will be shorter (more than 6 blocks an hour are generated for a few days till the difficulty adjusts) and vice versa if more leave, of course the same amount of coins will be generated no matter what, but since we can not estimate how miners will enter or leave the system over the next year or so any estimate could be as much as a couple of months off depending on events between then and now. Block 210000.
That's in 64.3k blocks, so at 6*24 = 144 blocks/day, we'll be there in about 450 days or ~15 months.
So December 2012 is a accurate estimation then. Lol, coincidence, I think not. If you google it you will see that most people quote different months. That is a LOL Have you lost fiat money on Bitcoins? I got rid of (most of) my fiat if that's what you mean. But I don't think it was 'lost'. So you are (almost) fully invested in BTC? If so, what do you think of the last months downturn? When will it return up? The last months downturn is the result of the speculators leaving the market for one of two reasons. 1) They realized that their 'get rich quick' scheme was going to take a while to develop and decided not to stay in for the long haul. 2) Many people feel that Bitcoin is 'stagnating' simply because the community has run out of shiny new products and ideas to wave in their face every day... mainly because people are now working to turn those products and ideas into reality. |
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I don't understand this fixation with confirmations in an IRL payment situation. You need to wait, at most 10 seconds to listen for a race attack, and only 2-3 if you have a well connected client. Who in their right mind would spend millions of dollars on making a 51% attack and then use it to get out of paying for dinner? Its much easier, cheaper, and simpler to just dine and dash then it its to create a race attack, must less a 51% attack. Confirmations are only needed for transactions large enough to warrant a 51% attack. Otherwise you can accept an unconfirmed transaction as a-ok if you have a well connected client designed to listen and warn of a race attack.
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Now is not the time to advertise, now is the time to develop. In 6 months to a year most of the projects being worked on now will be ready and polished enough for regular users and the protocol should have all of the most important scalability improvements implemented. That will be the time to begin thinking about advertising, we don't want to bring people to Bitcoin only to find that its too complex for them to use and/or the influx of new users causes protocol problems because scalability fixes are not implemented yet. First impressions are important, Bitcoin could gain a stigma that we do not want if we where to try and push it out there before its ready. Go ahead and get the ball rolling on plans and funds for advertising, but wait awhile before you actually start.
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So I saw the post about Bitcoin Monopoly and decided to do a little research. I found a printer that will make a Bitcoinopoly game. The problem is they would need the design information by the first week in October in order to have the game ready by Christmas. Obviously this would be best because the game would make awesome Christmas presents.
In order to accomplish this I would need at least 32 Bitcoin Merchants willing to sponsor a spot on the board. Cost would be between $400-$500 (US not Bitcoins). Sponsorship would include your company name, BW logo, and a copy of the game. If I can get 32 merchants to step up in time I’ll get production underway. If not, we’ll just have to try again next year.
I also need an idea of how many people would want to purchase the game. Cost would be approx $30 plus shipping.
If this doesn’t take off, no big deal considering the short time frame. However, I thought it would be pretty cool if we could accomplish it.
Comments and thoughts welcome.
Your going to make a clone of a game meant as a critique of capitalism...to promote a capitalist free market currency? |
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Do you have any rep? And where would it be shipped from?
I have no rep, so an escrow or something similar will probably be necessary. It would ship from south Florida. |
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Hi, is this the 3G/wifi or the wifi only model? Thanks!
Wifi only, i cant believe i forgot to add that to the op. |
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Also how many confirmations does it take to be sure it is real? - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/FAQ#Why_do_I_have_to_wait_10_minutes_before_I_can_spend_money_I_received.3FI am curious how does someone send fake bitcoins? Without mining, you can try a race attack where you spend from two nodes (say, node A and node B) with the same coin at the same time to two different merchants. It is possible that one merchant will see the spend from node A and another merchant will see the spend from node B. Of course, as soon as there is a block, whichever spend reached the miner first will be the one included in the block. If the merchant accepts as payment a transaction on 0/unconfirmed then that merchant has exposure to this race attack. There is not yet a system developed to counter this but a solution to this is for the merchant's node to listen to many nodes especially those of pools to see if there was another attempt to spend. Within seconds the merchant can know that no other spend attempts were attempted and if a race attack were being attempted the chance of it succeeding drop to almost nothing. While there are possible but not likely explanations that a double spend would be attempted, the risks to a brick and mortar merchant when accepting bitcoin on 0/unconfirmed are likely less than other risks faced (e.g., shoplifting, credit card chargebacks, etc.) There is another attack if the attacker is mining. If a block is mined, the bad actor miner then makes a purchase with a merchant but then after securing the goods, announces the block which has that same coin spent to a different address -- likely one owned by the miner. This is called the Finney attack: - http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses#The_.22Finney.22_attackThe bitcoin client doesn't "confirm" until 6 blocks. Waiting until 1/unconfirmed will lessen the risk to a Finney attack. Waiting for 6/unconfirmed will lessen to nearly zero the risk that a payment received will be lost to a double spend. Transactions only take a couple seconds to spread to the whole network. So any node should reieve booth transactions, once you see two transactions the client could simply warn the person taking payment that a race attack was underway. You would only have to wait a few seconds to see if there where any other transactions moving through the network that would conflict. |
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It's easy to get impatient but there's so much development going on at the moment that I think is crucial to the BTC economy as a whole (as far as merchant apis/plugins and exchanges are concerned) and the economy should grow pretty well on it's own for the next year at least.
But really I think we need more merchants with competitive prices so people are compelled to buy and spend BTC to drive the price up.
No merchant is going to accept btc when people have confessed it's a gambling game, and given the horrific breaches of security bitcoin has. You know like mtgox being hacked and all the money in mybitcoin "being stolen". its a million times easier to keep your wallet secure when you do not have to have authomatd payouts. Thats why banks like mybitcoin and MTGox where targeted, they had to be able to send as well as reviece coins. If you only have to reciece coins you can keep the wallet you are sending them to off site, making them almost impossible to steal. |
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So what?
Even if Satoshi holds all these Bitcoins, at current market prices he would only have $15 million.
Compare this to Bill Gates who also created a revolutionary type of software and who now owns something like $50 billion, that's 3000 times more
Yet Satoshi could more permanent damage to Bitcoin than Gates could do to USD. That's the concern for most people. And the fed can and is doing permanent damage to the dollar, people don't seem to care so much about that. The design of bitcoin is absolute genius, santioshi deserves how ever many coins he has , simply because they would never have existed without him. The chain was public from day one, people just did not know it existed. |
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I think it's a bad idea, but you're welcome to make your own fork incorporating this and prove me wrong.
woosh |
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But I think that until the person(s) behind Bitcoin doesn't come forward I think that the best I can do is to reconsider if I should invest time and money into this project. Same here. So I've decided not to invest until I know who are people that labeled themselves 'Satoshi'. We know exactly what Bitcoin is, line for line you can see exactly what it is and what is does, we know its secure and we know there are no backdoors or methods of control available to anyone. Thats all that matters, could Santoishi have another purpose for Bitcoin, other than the obvious experiment in digital money? Hell yes, but that does not mean we can not use it in the mean time. |
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Hi all - sorry for all the issues with BTCDeals. I have (as titeuf_87 pointed out) been dealing with an urgent medical issue that has left my incapacitated from running the site - I'm not going to go in to details as it's far more personal than I care to divulge - but I assure you I have not been neglecting the site or people by choice. I have a lot of emails and people to follow up with and I am 100% aware of peoples concerns, frustrations and even anger. I will rectify all accounts that are having issues - you can send me a message on the support page, a private message here on the forums or even out in the open on this forum; I will answer all inquiries but be aware I am back logged and still not feeling completely up to spending too much time on my computer at this time as I continue to get better. I apologize for this and wish I could have offered more assistance during this time and hope everyone understands I am doing my best to answer inquiries and follow up with missing or delayed orders. In addition to this - the deals on the site for the next few days are all going to be repeats and I will probably mark them up quite a bit just to discourage sales so I can get things back on track; Thanks, Elliott / sublimnl / BTCDeals admin@btcdeals.comGet well soon, Bitcoin need a more merchants like you. |
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Wait, what problem is this supposed to solve? You don't have the "fast transaction problem" when ordering things online.
Yup, payments show up instantly and are probably good for most cases. No need to wait for confirmation. But how in the world can I buy a 2000 BTC car without waiting an hour!  That's not the point. Online, you'll have plenty of confirmations long before the product gets into the UPS truck. (If you're selling digital products like e-books, then you have to wait for a confirmation or take your chances.) For transactions conducted in person, the seller simply needs to be reasonably sure that you didn't attempt a double spend attack - which itself requires careful timing and some luck along with >50% of the network. And in any case, if you tried it on the car dealer, they could just call the cops. After all, they know who you are anyway.  This is the problem. There is an example: I'm in a shopping center and buy stuffs in a little store inside. I pay it (without waiting confirmations). But then, I choose going to another store, it's simple and fast, walking three footsteps there is the next store and buy again. Double spending. That's the risk of not using escrows or intermediaries (maybe i'm wrong) You are, its nowhere near that easy. When two conflicting transactions exist clients that have already seen the first transaction will not broadcast the second. Meaning that unless you get new peers your attempt at a double spend will be killed instantly. Even if you do manage to get new peers by the time you get a new set of connections your first transaction will have spread too much. In any shopping center all the shops will have each other as peers, the first shop received your first transaction nano second after you sent them. When you attempt to double spend over there their client will have seen your first transaction and know immediately that it is a double spend attempt. |
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There is a huge hole in the mobile bitcoin market.
There needs to be a better smartphone app that can hold a wallet. One that does NOT need to download the entire blockchain to work.
One that will instantly creat a QR code of a bitcoin address, and be able to scan a QR of a bitcoin address.
The blockchain download is a major hurdle.
I have not been paying attention to dev lately so this could be a non issue. if so let me know.
https://market.android.com/details?id=de.schildbach.wallet&feature=search_resultHere you go, smartphone app that can scan/create QR codes, has NFC support and does not need to download the entire block chain (although it does grab a very small portion of it) |
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*raises hand*
Cant get anything done. Trying to hide the incognito window with 4 forum tabs and MtGox live,
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So you go to meze grill and buy a sandwich, to help the economy, I think you are doing more harm than good. The bitcoin system is too slow to use on less than 5 minute transactions. If you use a wallet, you are not using bitcoin, you are using a centralize play money site. Paypal, dwolla, and poker sites are examples of play money sites based in U.S. dollars.
Meze grill is based in dollars. It is basically an exchange. You buy a sandwich, he gets the bitcoin, he sells the bitcoin on mt gox to buy lettuce. The transaction could have gone, you have bitcoin, you sell bitcoin for $, you go to Meze grill and pay in cash. So meze grill is an exchange, why is that bad? It is bad because the transaction is small 0.5 BTC. It is just going to load up the system with small transactions.
Now I love the idea that Meze grill offers to sell bitcoin (maybe buy too not sure). Thus you go in with $100 and buy 10 BTC. Thus they are a real exchange. It just hit me you can easily have a bitcoin atm. You stick a usb stick in the atm, you put a $100 bill in it, a wallet .dat is added to your usb drive. You can also sell, put a wallet.dat on the usb drive and out pops some cash.
This just made me think of another idea, bitcoin block chain that holds wallets not bitcoins. Your wallet is stored on the block chain and a monthly fee is added to your wallet, if your balance goes to zero it is deleted.
I is nice to have hundreds of exchanges. Thus if one goes down you can use another. But, I forgot what I wanted to say. But still like the post so I will fix it or delete it later.
The Bitcoin system is more than fast enough for sub 5 min transactions, you don't need to worry about confirmations unless you think your customer is going to preform a double spend attack to get out of paying for his sandwich. |
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Trolls WAY trollier than you have predicted price drops with specific numbers before ($10 when it was at $15), only to be ridiculed when the price rebounded without coming close to their predictions. Be careful making specific price predictions.
trollier? Do we have an offical troll level scale here? |
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