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41  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: FPGA life expectancy? on: March 12, 2012, 05:26:57 AM
I own Icarus and ZTEX boards and both are worth their money. Keep in mind that Icarus uses only SG2 chips. You compare a tuned Lancer Evolution with a Porsche. Like others wrote, a question of preference.
Chip's speed is not the only difference.
Icarus also uses "Industrial" grade Spartans, rated up to +100 įC

Another important pro for Icarus is that it is open source.
42  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: FPGA life expectancy? on: March 11, 2012, 04:36:44 AM
I noticed the big 330uf capacitors on the x6500 are only rated for 2000 hours which is about 2 months and 3 weeks my guess is they would last a whole lot longer though.....

The hours is at max rated temp. Rule of thumb is that for every 10 įC lower it doubles the life expectancy.

43  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: FPGA development board "Icarus" - 3rd batch payment start. on: March 07, 2012, 11:03:23 AM
I've tested with each of my 2 powerpack + Icarus boards
Both show 23.1 to 23.4 watts.

With just the plugpack alone - the meter shows 1.1 Watts.

I wouldn't say the plugpacks are 'hot' - but they're warmer than various other plugpacks I have running switches etc.


edit: This is the meter I'm using - http://wattsclever.com/product/energy-watch-monitor-EW5001
Heh - same one I've got but mine is showing a total 60W increase at the power point for 2 Icarus connected to a computer.
Maybe they aren't as reliable as I thought they were?
Anyway - as I mentioned, if I get around to making a molex cable that will answer if that's the watt meter or the plug pack.
Hmm actually my 2 plug pack China<->Aus adapters also have surge protection so that may be a few watts each also ...

I used pliers to convert the plug packs to AUS style pins, no adapter required. Shocked

Have to agree that the meter must be giving bad readings as I measure the boards as less than 20w
44  Other / Off-topic / Re: Butterfly Labs - Bitforce Single and Rig Box on: February 14, 2012, 05:23:01 AM
Had a dispute with something I purchased with paypal but they could not help because it was over 90 days?? Not sure of the exact cut off date as it was a few years ago. Long story short they were the local agent and after I started sending lots of emails to every office they had worldwide it got sorted but paypal would not help due to the cut off date.

For those thinking they have paypal protection I would suggest you check their policy on time limits.

45  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Nanominer - Modular FPGA Mining Platform on: February 12, 2012, 09:41:34 AM
interested
46  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: FPGA development board "Icarus" - 3rd batch information. on: February 12, 2012, 09:30:29 AM
...
-Icarus has no dual use, you cannot use for games.
...
Not entirely true. It's an programmable device, so you may upload bitstream with game, like pong Smiley You may upload a bitstream with ARM CortexM2 processor and I saw a doom game for that. And many, many more. Imagination is a limitation. Popably it wouldn't be a problem to convert Icarus to Playstation 1 game console. Only licence is on your way, so you will propably not find such a bitstream on internet, but you may do it yourself.
Not to mention that Icarus maybe converted to useful devices such as house alarm, meteo station, controller of a solar panel with sun tracking.... and much much more.

I believe my statement was accurate within the context of the discussion. I can totally relate to pulling the PC off hashing for some battlefield 4 but cannot imagine uploading a new bit-stream on to the fpga so it can double as house alarm etc (plus the platform would be overkill).

I understand where you are coming from though.

 
47  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: FPGA development board "Icarus" - 3rd batch information. on: February 12, 2012, 01:03:24 AM
Can any of you that already have these tell me what your real world savings is on your utility bill and what your price per kWh is? I want to hear mainly from those that have replaced a video card with this product. With the dual purpose of the HD 7970 and its great hashing power Iím having trouble pulling the trigger on a product that's about the same price and canít be used by me for anything but mining and can't be resold to anyone but miners. Thanks in advance.

I have both cards and icarus. Currently the for me the electricity to generate 1 btc is about 29c for GPU and 1.44c for FPGA and with BTC being around $6 it is not that important to me atm. I think the big advantage is ease of expandability:

<snip>

Those are all very good points, thank you. The cost savings looks like it's substantial. That's the only real issue for me. I have computers used by my family that I haven't upgraded the GPU on yet so the other factors are not as big a concern for me. Of course, I forgot about heat because it's winter. Thanks for reminding me how miserable last summer was for me.

Keep in mind that Defkin's cost of 29c to generate 1BTC is extremely low; most people cannot achieve anywhere this low a cost.

To generate 1BTC per day at today's difficulty would require 1400Ghps. That's 3 overclocked 5870s running at 200W each, or 600W. Add to that the power for the cpu, motherboard, and power supply efficiency (assume 90%) and that brings you up to 700W. Or 16.8kWh per day. The AVERAGE electricity rate in the US is $0.11/kWh. So 16.8kWh x $0.11/kWh is $1.85. Not $0.29.

So although Defkin can somehow generate 1BTC with his GPUs for $0.29, most people in the States will need $1.85 in electricity to generate that same 1BTC. Run the same numbers for the FPGA and see what you get. Defkin gets 1.44c, but again that is unrealistically low for the average person. Check your electricity bill and see what your actual rate is.

You are correct CornedBeefHash I screwed up my calcs big time, still trying to work out where Sad

1 BTC GPU $2.11 @800w not including the 250w pedestal fan.
1 BTC FPGA 16c @64w
Mind you I am using a cheap $19 power meter too.

It is going to be nearly double that when they install the 'smart meter' the gov said would save us all money....Tongue
Unless of course I only run for 8h out of 24h period then it will be half........
 
That's seems more like it.

Still at 1400Ghps to generate 1 BTC and the Icarus board producing an average hash rate of 362Mhps you would need 3.87 Icarus boards per BTC generated. At 1400Ghps to generate 1 BTC the 7970 card producing an average hash rate of 561Mhps you would need 2.49 7970 cards per BTC generated. At $600 per Icarus board initial purchase cost to generate 1 BTC would be $2,322 and at $559 per 7970 it would be $1,391.91. I can buy a lot of electricity for the $930 difference.

The big things for me are the expected life of the equipment, the initial cost, the electrical cost, the warranty and ability for resale of equipment.

I know the warranty return and repair policy for AMD cards. I donít know what it would be for the Icarus board. Icarus is the obvious hands down winner in mh/watt and cooling but lifespan and resale value for even a year from now is a big unknown.






-The batch 2 boards are doing 380mh and the new alpha bitstream looks to have increased that to 400mh.
-Life of the equipment would be in favor of Icarus if only due to the number of components.
-Icarus has no warranty at all.
-Icarus would have resale value to BTC miners not the larger gaming market.
-if BTC stays around $6 Icarus earns about 30% more BTC if you pay $0.11Kwh and live in a cool climate.
-Icarus has no dual use, you cannot use for games.
-You cannot just add another card. Icarus needs no supporting equipment so adding a new board is no prob
-in comparison Icarus makes no noise.
-If you live in a warm climate $930 saving would be used for installing and running a cooling solution.


48  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: FPGA development board "Icarus" - 3rd batch information. on: February 11, 2012, 10:43:03 AM
Can any of you that already have these tell me what your real world savings is on your utility bill and what your price per kWh is? I want to hear mainly from those that have replaced a video card with this product. With the dual purpose of the HD 7970 and its great hashing power Iím having trouble pulling the trigger on a product that's about the same price and canít be used by me for anything but mining and can't be resold to anyone but miners. Thanks in advance.

I have both cards and icarus. Currently the for me the electricity to generate 1 btc is about 29c for GPU and 1.44c for FPGA and with BTC being around $6 it is not that important to me atm. I think the big advantage is ease of expandability:

<snip>

Those are all very good points, thank you. The cost savings looks like it's substantial. That's the only real issue for me. I have computers used by my family that I haven't upgraded the GPU on yet so the other factors are not as big a concern for me. Of course, I forgot about heat because it's winter. Thanks for reminding me how miserable last summer was for me.

Keep in mind that Defkin's cost of 29c to generate 1BTC is extremely low; most people cannot achieve anywhere this low a cost.

To generate 1BTC per day at today's difficulty would require 1400Ghps. That's 3 overclocked 5870s running at 200W each, or 600W. Add to that the power for the cpu, motherboard, and power supply efficiency (assume 90%) and that brings you up to 700W. Or 16.8kWh per day. The AVERAGE electricity rate in the US is $0.11/kWh. So 16.8kWh x $0.11/kWh is $1.85. Not $0.29.

So although Defkin can somehow generate 1BTC with his GPUs for $0.29, most people in the States will need $1.85 in electricity to generate that same 1BTC. Run the same numbers for the FPGA and see what you get. Defkin gets 1.44c, but again that is unrealistically low for the average person. Check your electricity bill and see what your actual rate is.

You are correct CornedBeefHash I screwed up my calcs big time, still trying to work out where Sad

1 BTC GPU $2.11 @800w not including the 250w pedestal fan.
1 BTC FPGA 16c @64w
Mind you I am using a cheap $19 power meter too.

It is going to be nearly double that when they install the 'smart meter' the gov said would save us all money....Tongue
Unless of course I only run for 8h out of 24h period then it will be half........
 
 
49  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [130 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) | on: February 11, 2012, 01:51:33 AM


I think the pool needs a G.Luk upgrade.

may i suggest a rabbit foot usb? Smiley

50  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: FPGA development board "Icarus" - 3rd batch information. on: February 11, 2012, 12:36:30 AM
Can any of you that already have these tell me what your real world savings is on your utility bill and what your price per kWh is? I want to hear mainly from those that have replaced a video card with this product. With the dual purpose of the HD 7970 and its great hashing power Iím having trouble pulling the trigger on a product that's about the same price and canít be used by me for anything but mining and can't be resold to anyone but miners. Thanks in advance.

I have both cards and icarus. Currently the for me the electricity to generate 1 btc is about 29c for GPU and 1.44c for FPGA and with BTC being around $6 it is not that important to me atm. I think the big advantage is ease of expandability:

This was my thinking when i considered the two, for me to add another 1gh for GPU or FPGA:-

FPGA: I just plug in 3 more units, 10 minutes work. Increase in heat/power 60w so not currently an issue. I will have to buy a new $15 usb hub when I add another 2gh, if I add another 20gh I will have to look at increasing cooling.

GPU: going to need another rig, MB, PSU, case, mem, HDD or usb, OS etc. Increase in heat/power 800w. I cannot fit a new rig in the area i am using, plus the noise will be too much. Moving both rigs to new area I will also have to increase external cooling as my current arrangement is not enough, a small window mount AC unit should do....another 500w. You get the picture...

If i keep on expanding to 10gh for GPU I will need to increase mains supply from the switch board, from the street should be ok till around 50gh. In comparison with FPGA I will not even have to look at this until i hit 100gh+


  


51  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: FPGA development board "Icarus" - 3rd batch information. on: February 10, 2012, 10:29:21 AM
There is no underlining in Windows consoles, AFAIR Smiley
Yeah, but why on earth would it show that in blue instead of just ignoring it?!

all fixed, my eyes thank you so much

also you don't know how relived I am to know that it is a coding irregularity rather than a deliberate color choice, haha 
52  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: FPGA development board "Icarus" - 3rd batch information. on: February 10, 2012, 07:18:33 AM


Very nice.....thank you TheSeven Smiley

Just need to change the blue font so i can read it, something to do over the weekend, lol

53  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [120 GH/s] BitMinter.com | New fast server | Voting pro on BIP-16 (P2SH) | on: February 05, 2012, 02:25:40 AM

I'm not sure what's causing some workers to get high stales still. I'm working on some ideas to lower stales further though.


Could it be due to FPGA workers?

I am running 1.1gh at about 1-2% stales on fpga. This stale rate is mainly due to no miner software support yet for LP.
On the up side I am doing it for 47w power usage Smiley

54  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Submersing a rig on: February 02, 2012, 10:00:45 AM
Grats on the oil cooler Cheesy


My practical experience is on the multimillion dollar stuff and on the operational/maintenance side rather than design but the basic principles still apply. 

Your basic 'rule of thumb' is that you will achieve a 6 Deg C split between supply and return providing you are within your systems heat rejection capabilities. This temp split is a good indicator on the amount of heat rejection your system is doing.

For example:
If you are at 6 deg split and temp is still rising you have exceeded your capacity.
If you are at 6 and temp is falling you are at within your capacity.
If you are less than 6 and temp is stable the split temp you are at is a good indicator of your overall capacity at that heat load.
If you are less than 6 and temp is rising something is wrong.

55  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Submersing a rig on: January 29, 2012, 02:18:43 AM
Im bumping in to my first problem. PU is lighter than oil. It doesnt stick well enough to the PVC container, so it will float. I guess that can be worked around by mechanically forcing the block down, but its not a good start lol. On the bright side, its a joy to dremel canals and stuff in PU foam. If I didnt have 2 left hands, Id start sculpting!

Maybe stick nails into the foam to weigh it down?
Have you tried plumbers glue?
56  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Submersing a rig on: January 28, 2012, 10:33:34 PM
All oil is flammable, so Im not sure what risk the PU (or fibreglass) would add to that. If it catches fire, my shed will burn down anyway. But in case the pump fails, the cards will just shut down, and long before the oil reaches flash point.

I was not concerned about the oil directly in fact due to the high flash point of oil I would say it is likely to put out a fire.

Consider this, you have intermediate fuels in close proximity to the card, PU foam, plastic wire insulation, plastic moldings etc all nicely heated up by the card. If you lose the oil flow all those materials are now lightly coated in oil and with the splash method you might even have created an air-fuel mixture. Your ignition source would be the card, it has a lot of current running through it, a fatigued solder joint, poor connector or faulty component and there is your initial flame. Normally in an air cooled pc you would only expect get a brown spot on the PCB or a blackened connector, maybe not even that much with the oil running, without the oil running the risk of fire is considerably higher.


Anyhow good luck with the project and don't forget to post pictures when you get it up and running Smiley
57  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Submersing a rig on: January 27, 2012, 12:59:55 PM
That more or less boils down to what I intend to make, except, I dont like so much air. Too much chance of dirt getting in the oil. So fill most of the air in your drawing with PU foam or similar, and replace the freeflowing oil with some inserted tubing and its roughly the same idea. Only I dont have to worry about the pump capacity to maintain levels.

Im okay with fibreglass btw. Its messy, but I love the stuff. But its not as easy as youd think to make it water (well, oil) tight. Ill experiment a bit tonight.

The tray only has to be big enough to accommodate the cards and a channel big enough to deliver oil to the containers and overflow. Even then you can eliminate most of the surface area by raising what parts you don't need above the oil level.
                                                               
The pump control is easy just put in a bypass, place a valved connection between inlet and outlet, adjust valve to regulate flow.

I don't have any probs making fiberglass waterproof, try thinning the resin with acetone.

With this design I would be wary of the fire hazard, it would be bad enough with fiberglass I wouldn't want to go near PU foam. You will need a fail-safe shutoff switch in case the oil pump stops, you can make a relativity bullet proof one out of a mirco switch and a syringe.




58  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Submersing a rig on: January 27, 2012, 11:12:20 AM
DnT has pretty much nailed it with what I was doing. Cutting and welding metal for me is easier to do than any other material such as wood and even cardboard for that mater. It is perfect for heat exchange, in fact most of the difficulty working with it is due to heat exchange. But as you don't have the skills or equipment.......being such a small simple job it might be worth getting the local workshop to do it but that would prob exceed your budget.


Anyhow back to the idea you and DnT were working on. How are you with fiberglass? I don't like it much because it is messy and makes me itch but it is probably ideal for individual covers and it is cheap. You can make a mold out of a block of wood and waxed paper.

Expanding or simplifying the idea DnT suggested you could make the containers and fiberglass them into a tray made from ply wood. Have small holes in the base of each container and flood the tray with oil. The oil will fill the containers and drain out of the holes. Adding a large hole on the tray at a higher level will allow you to crank the pump up until it goes down this overflow thus giving you a uniform flow of oil through each container.

The real beauty of this idea is that if you ever give up mining, with some seeds, hydroponic solution and a grow light you have a ready made indoor hydroponic system and a brand new hobby, lol

59  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Submersing a rig on: January 27, 2012, 06:47:34 AM

http://www.petrochemcarless.com/white-oils.htm
I don't know where you live but you may want to try this place for the oil?


If I was going to build something like this here is what I would do assuming of course I had a pond Cheesy

I would use a 240v recirculating pump (have it) and a car radiator (have it) and make the exchanger out of 10mm plate (have it). Only thing I would have to buy is the water hoses, steel pipe and the oil.
 



60  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [90 GH/s PPLNS] BitMinter.com *** Merged Mining! *** on: January 26, 2012, 02:00:11 AM
One other item was that the trojan makers have started to make some effort towards BTC. While no one is suggesting that the BTC code itself is under threat everyone who has a wallet on an unsecured system is and it is only going to get worse. I know I cannot secure a windows PC, worse those with less computer skills are going to think they are secure because norton told them so. I wouldn't even know where to start with a mobile OS.

So 3 options really. Go with one of the two upgrade options that of us voting 99% of us can not technically evaluate anyhow. And correct me if I am wrong the Devs already voted on the BIP16 although it was not unanimous so it spilled over to us?

Or delay implementation and run the risk of the public losing confidence in BTC if the hackers manage to steal enough coin and this is going to become more likely as the more of less computer savvy join BTC.

This is my vote and reasoning behind it.

1. I am not qualified to make an informed vote but the mechanics mean I must cast a vote anyhow.
2. Having the public lose confidence in a currency is far from good no mater how it happens - delay is out.
3. It appears the jack jr lost the dev team vote so sent it to the miners turning the decision into a raffle rather than and informed choice.

I guess that means I vote for BIP 16........

 
 
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