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141  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BIP 16 / 17 in layman's terms on: January 27, 2012, 08:28:27 AM
I think there can be a major problem if Deepbit agrees to work with another pool or gets 51%
It will be possible for them to set the transaction fees to 1-5BTC/kb and reject any block that was not created by them.
I think this is a lot worse than the 51% double spending problem Satoshi described
And the miners might not leave - they will be making extra money from those fees.
This is sort of the reason monopolies are illegal in most countries. when a large group agrees on a price - that group can get almost twice the profit - at the expense of the users.
Even if tycho won't do something like this, somebody needs to hack just ~2 servers to achieve this goal.
Bitcoin will become regulated...

Edit:
just to be clear. i dont think the pool managers are the problem. the miners are.
142  Other / Off-topic / Re: 1 = 1 Is this cool or just plain nuts? on: January 27, 2012, 08:04:25 AM
its a problem of notation
when you write sqrt(1) it is accepted that you mean the positive root
but there is a negative root as well (-1)*(-1)=1 -> sqrt(1)=+/-1
similarly  sqrt(-1)=-/+i
143  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [150GH/s] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool on: January 26, 2012, 10:31:46 PM
i have a core i5 750 and it also happens to me once in a while
144  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: BIP17 backward compatability on: January 26, 2012, 10:12:53 PM
how about this:

sig1 OP_0 sig1 sig2 SEPARATOR 2 pub1 pub2 2 checkmultisig pub1

hash <hash(pub1)> compare checksig <hash(x)> OP_CHECKHASHVERIFY OP_DROP

x is all the mess from the separator up to the hash(x)
the pub will be twice as long but at a const. length (the complex script can be as long is it needs)
an old client will always verify at least the first sig
145  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BIP 16 / 17 in layman's terms on: January 26, 2012, 08:19:14 PM

thats a deadlock
the others are waiting for you


There's no incentive for others to wait or switch. Why would they be waiting for Deepbit?
psychological reasons.
he's the "leader" of a big chunk of the bitcoin network
people will assume that he knows what he's doing and that after having 40% of the hashing power the full support for bip16 will be soon enabled.
146  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BIP 16 / 17 in layman's terms on: January 26, 2012, 08:09:57 PM
I would like to point that BIP17 has no chances of winning.
The question is WHEN bip16 will be over 55% and starts working.
well if you say so....
Thats already 40% of the hashing power.
What exactly are you waiting for before you enable the support in your pool?
I'll start working on it when I'll see significant support from other miners. (2% is not significant)
BTW, according to Gavin's e-mail today, Deepbit is 28%, not 40%.

I'm saying that BIP17 has no chances not because of me, but because I seriously doubt that it will be supported by anyone besides Eligius.
thats a deadlock
the others are waiting for you
147  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: OT: Tea lovers on: January 26, 2012, 08:06:48 PM
how do you buy from china? ebay?
a specific seller/store?
148  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BIP 16 / 17 in layman's terms on: January 26, 2012, 08:05:36 PM
I would like to point that BIP17 has no chances of winning.
The question is WHEN bip16 will be over 55% and starts working.
well if you say so....
Thats already 40% of the hashing power.
What exactly are you waiting for before you enable the support in your pool?
149  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BIP 16 / 17 in layman's terms on: January 26, 2012, 07:58:18 PM
No, the BIP makes it sound like a vote.

Quote
To judge whether or not more than 50% of hashing power supports this BIP, miners are asked to upgrade their software and put the string "/P2SH/" in the input of the coinbase transaction for blocks that they create.

Rightly or wrongly, that is the root cause.


supports here is "technically supports" as in "able to accept and process such transactions". not support like in politics

Edit: the concern was that most people wont update, because even now more than half of the clients are below version 0.5
150  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BIP 16 / 17 in layman's terms on: January 26, 2012, 07:55:25 PM
this was not intended to be a vote...
people started interpreting it as a vote when luke came up with BIP17

I think i had enough of this. Let gavin and luke fight to the death. the winner writes the P2SH implementation
151  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BIP 16 / 17 in layman's terms on: January 26, 2012, 07:40:26 PM
"average" miners, for all practical purposes, can't vote anyway... A solo miner isn't generating blocks fast enough to make a difference... so even if every miner popped up with a vote for P2SH, it wouldn't really change anything.  

The "vote" comes packaged in a solved block.

The regular pools should have at least made a poll on their site. so its not the manager who decides, but the miners of that pool
152  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: OT: Tea lovers on: January 26, 2012, 07:37:45 PM
No tea shops in CZ?
there should be...
maybe you should check some UK websites as well.
Good luck
153  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: BIP 17 on: January 26, 2012, 07:31:37 PM
is there already an implementation of both BIPs?
154  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: OT: Tea lovers on: January 26, 2012, 07:24:35 PM
http://www.palaisdesthes.co.il/
i think their HQ is in france or something: http://us.palaisdesthes.com/en_us/
155  Other / Off-topic / Re: Which one (aka I want to give you 1 free Bitcoin)? on: January 26, 2012, 07:22:58 PM
make it pink!
156  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: OT: Tea lovers on: January 26, 2012, 07:13:05 PM
Earl grey rulz
also rooibos
157  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BIP 16 / 17 in layman's terms on: January 26, 2012, 07:04:21 PM
AFAIK bitcoin still does exactly that.
puts the signatures together and executes the result
both signatures contain both data and code
my objection is not to push data, but that this data is being executed at a later stage

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction
Quote
The input's scriptSig and the referenced output's scriptPubKey are evaluated (in that order), with scriptPubKey using the values left on the stack by scriptSig
also look at the examples there
158  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: BIP17 backward compatability on: January 26, 2012, 06:53:51 PM
bummer
Smiley
159  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: BIP 17 on: January 26, 2012, 06:46:43 PM
you dont need computing power, you just send a competing transaction, and wichever gets first into a block will be accepted

BTW, why is the address of BIP17 longer than BIP16?
160  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BIP 16 / 17 in layman's terms on: January 26, 2012, 06:35:01 PM
look at how Gavin himself wrote it in his post:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60433.0

OP_HASH160 <hash> OP_EQUAL
OP_0 <signature> OP_PUSHDATA(2 <pubkey1> <pubkey2> 2 OP_CHECKMULTISIG)

the code is "OP_PUSHDATA"
"2 <pubkey1> <pubkey2> 2 OP_CHECKMULTISIG" is data
then, this previously pushed data gets executed

while in BIP17:
<hash> OP_CODEHASHVERIFY OP_POP
OP_0 <signature> OP_CODESEPARATOR 2 <pubkey1> <pubkey2> 2 OP_CHECKMULTISIG
no tricks are used...

my problem with the idea of executing data is that it is the basis of a lot of hacks in other software
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