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1  Economy / Economics / Re: Energy consumption will become an issue if bitcoin really breaks through on: December 15, 2019, 10:57:04 AM
Let's say that Bitcoin takes the place of the USD within 10 years and see what the energy consumption of the bitcoin network will be.

facts:
 - USD "M2" money supply in 2009: 8E12 USD (http://money.howstuffworks.com/how-much-money-is-in-the-world.htm)
 - in 2023 there will be 19E6 BTC. Mining will be honoured with 6.25 BTC/10min => 329'000 BTC/y (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_supply)
 
assumptions:
 - BTC takes the place of USD => one BTC will be worth 421'053$ (of course valuation of BTC will devaluate USD...but let's leave that aside.)
 - let's say 1kWh costs 10cts USD
 - all miners use the same recent technology. Or at least with equal efficiency in MH/J
 - people are not paying significant transaction fees by 2023 (the more people will pay fees, the higher the resulting profitable global energy consumption)

(edit) In a free market the following formula approximates energy consumption of any PoW based cryptocurrency:
GlobalEnergyConsumptionForMining ~= (MiningReward + TransactionFees) * bitcoinValueInUSD / EnergyCostInUSDperkWh


So mining would be profitable somewhere below an energy consumption of the bitcoin network of:

break even price: 421'053$/BTC*329'000BTC/y = 139E9$/y
equivalent energy: 1.39E12 kWh/y

Today's global electricity consumption is around 20E12 kWh/y (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_energy_consumption)

This means that the bitcoin network by itself would raise global electricity consumption by up to 7%

Please show me where I'm wrong!

We could of course put this less dramatic:
  - in 2033 it would be 174E9 kWh/y
  - in 2100 it would be 2.65 GWh/y

today we would be at 5MWh if all miners were using newest ASIC's (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison)

(edit)
CONCLUSIONS:
 
  • according to economical basics, energy consumption of the bitcoin network does not depend on mining gear efficiency!
  • the problem described applies to every proof-of-work based currency (including Litecoin) because proof-of-work equals proof-of-energy-consumption at a market equilibrium
  • bitcoin value is NOT directly backed by energy consumption. But mining rewards and transaction fees are.
  • the slower the bitcoin value rises and the lower the transaction fees, the lower the energy consumption of the bitcoin network on the long run

All the said things make sense but you should also think that all the growing businesses require energy and every day our demand for energy is also increasing and the energy required by bitcoin Miners isn't that big amount at all. The politicians are making a big deal out of it, they are connecting bitcoin mining with rising climate temperature and also global warming which isn't true at all.
This is the lamest thing that I have come across today on internet. If governments are really concerned about weather changes and global warming, they shall focus on planting trees and work on projects that help in the purification of air and reduce CFCs in the air. Bitcoin mining is not damaging climate at all as compared to the waste that comes out from ammunition companies and nuclear weapon plants.
2  Economy / Economics / Re: How many bitcoin is enough? on: December 15, 2019, 10:37:50 AM
Depending on the standard of living of each person. Different countries have different living standards, so I think everyone will set a different goal. I set a goal for myself to try to get 30 BTC before age 30, and my economic condition is not so good to implement it so smoothly so I'm still working hard to get it.

People as per expectation may want to have as many as possible and with current rate at 7.3k if it rises to 20k + it will be more helpful for people as their value will rise automatically of whatever the no of btc they may have it .
Bitcoin is a virtual investment and we all know the real worth of it. It though takes time but ultimately you make gigantic amount of profits during pumps. The number of bitcoin that you have is never enough because there are only 21 million bitcoin in total and everyone in the world is competing for them. Moreover the more bitcoin you have the more chances you have of becoming rich during pumps.
3  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: First you know about online gambling on: December 15, 2019, 10:17:48 AM
If you are to generalize the online gambling itself, I think I am into online gambling but without any money involved yet. I am playing blackjack and ride the tides way back before, but I find it is better to play with real money, and I started upon the creation of cryptocurrency, specifically playing just a dice game in online leads to me playing in a mobile application with various games.
Probably you were playing blackjack without money to understand gambling properly or specifically this American card game in order to use your knowledge when you play with real money. But with dice I guess things are totally different. I personally believe that dice games are totally dependent on luck. There is not much room for showing your skills and taking things in your hand. Indeed you get real thrills with real money.
4  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: there are still many who invest in cryptocurrency? on: December 15, 2019, 09:57:56 AM
I am one of them. I'm converting half of my savings into crypto but I limit my investments into popular cryptos and IEOs from trusted exchanges. I resist selling for small price changes and haven't had a loss for last 6 months though the prices of crypto decreased in the time.
If you have invested in good projects then definitely, you wonít be disappointed by digital coin market but with weak coins, things can turn out to be a little bit different. Investing half of your savings into crypto currencies was a very wise decision from you. Moreover, if you are not holding bitcoin at the moment then this coin should be invested in first. Bitcoin is the real game in digital currencies.
5  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Bitcoin to $5k? Tone Vays on: December 15, 2019, 09:22:19 AM
Hey, guys! Check this video where Tone Vays shares his opinion on future of Bitcoin's price. He considers that BTC will fall to $5k and will start growing just after that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qABFMlxnmFA
There will always be "famous" crypto people who will tell the same stuff, just recently someone said bitcoin will be $20-$25k as well but now another person is saying it will be $5k, it is quite chaotic when you go into what the "famous" people say. I am saying "famous" instead of famous because these people have no other connection to real world aside from crypto world, they are not know by 99%+ of the people in the world so what they say doesn't carry any weight if you ask me.

Tone could be bearish, he could be bullish and it wouldn't matter, just because he said something doesn't mean it is a good prediction. Could what he said turn out to be true? It could be but it won't happen because he knew it beforehand, he just made up a prediction and could happen to be right this time.
Listening to others can be beneficial but following them does not make any sense because that would be more like, they are living your life too. People who make such predictions do have some point in their words but still no one can predict the actual values of Bitcoinís pumps or dumps. The market is bearish at the moment and expected to rise after halving. It is common sense which action is to be taken during what time.
6  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Altcoins or Bitcoin? on: December 14, 2019, 11:00:39 AM
can't choose one because it's obvious I'm currently holding bitcoin and altcoin. and the answers of the people here also definitely choose to do both. okay, cheap altcoin can be bought in large quantities but if bitcoin continues to fall, it is useless to hold altcoin. it's safer to hold bitcoin but it will definitely feel something is lacking to hold, so buy altcoin to hold. if you can trade, it is better than doing long term hold.
All successful traders or crypto holders are seen utilizing both altcoins and bitcoin in order not to miss any opportunity of making good money. there is no doubt that bitcoin is the leading force and altcoins follow its trends but altcoins are good for day trading and making small profits on daily basis whereas bitcoin is used for collecting large money after some good time of holding.
7  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Social experiments in the world of gambling on: December 14, 2019, 10:20:53 AM
If someone bet and he suffers a big loss and then goes here to ask a little help from you, are you willing to give him help?
Have you ever experienced something like that, how do you deal with this loss?

I'll definitely not give help, he should have thought first before betting all his money that he will need money for his needs, this kind of gamblers are reckless drivers who never give a second thought if what will happen to him if he loses, no wonder they always end up taking a loan from a loan shark
These loan sharks are dreadful and horrible. They go to any extends in order to get back their money within limited time span. The biggest mistake gamblers commit which leads to bankruptcy is taking loan for betting. People show no mercy to gamblers because as per them, gambler is and was responsible for all his actions and shall have thought about consequences beforehand. Nobody likes helping them.
8  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Gambling with Fiat or Crypto? on: December 14, 2019, 09:55:43 AM
i would like to gambling with crypto, because your earning can change anytime if the crypto going up,
so my favourite betting is bitcoin ofcourse Cheesy
I also like to gamble using crypto because there are already many gambling places supporting various crypto (cheap ones), even though we only have a small capital we can still bet differently if we use fiat it must have a lot of capital (my experience). and the advantages of crypto, it's true that the price can change at any time, if the price goes up, surely we can benefit many times over. get profit from betting and get more profit from the price of crypto that goes up.
When you bet with fiat, you donít have many options of currencies to choose from. Of course you will use local currencies but with cryptos, there is unending variety of currencies that you can opt as per your need and demands. Moreover the volatile nature of crypto currencies can give you enormous benefits if you hold your coins for some time that you won in gambling.
9  Economy / Economics / Re: Does China Control Bitcoin? on: December 14, 2019, 08:27:46 AM
People from China have a huge mining power, they have a lot of Bitcoins, it's logical to assume that they can manipulate with the price but until a certain point. They can't control the entire network, their actions can affect the Bitcoin in the ways they wish, but there are other parties involved too. It would be fair to say that who owns som amount of Bitcoins, control that amount, but nothing more.

I don't understand why China is being given so much importance. Most of the Chinese users started using Bitcoin only after mid-2013. And even now they rank below the United States and the European Union in terms of raw volumes. It is true that most of the mining pools are located in China. The only reason for that is the availability of cheap electricity and mining hardware. And as of now mining pools don't have much bargaining power, because they haven't formed any cartels or cabals.
China is given importance because it is an emerging superpower. China wants to rule the world but as far as bitcoin is concerned, it is clear that china is not ruling it or may be incapable of getting hands on this technology completely. In the beginning when bitcoin was new to the world and it had to be mined out but now I believe maximum numbers of bitcoin is mined out and china is losing value in crypto world.
10  Economy / Economics / Re: Is bitcoin volatility here to stay? on: December 14, 2019, 08:04:37 AM
Bitcoin volatility is here to stay. There is no chance for bitcoin to become stable because the market of bitcoin is not regulated by the government and the market is also open 24/7 so there is no chance to prevent the market fluctuations. To be honest, it is an advantage to us because we can trade with the movements and make at least a few percentage of return.

Yes, it will not become stable especially that we do have a lot of holders in Bitcoin, so no matter how much we aim to make it stable it won't happen, especially that there are people who are holding Bitcoin that has an impact in the price once they sold it, crypto will stay but the price will differ from time to time, so we must be ready all the time.
This is the prime property of bitcoin that makes it stand out other conventional currencies and means of investments i.e. volatility. Bitcoin stability will not be supported by anyone because in this way the buying and selling will slow down and people have to wait for longer times to buy or sell it off. Undoubtedly the sudden selling off bitcoin by large number of holders makes prices go down badly.
11  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Are you holding Bitcoin? on: December 10, 2019, 05:50:37 PM
I am holding bitcoin and it's not going to stop, no matter what.
There were surveys made about this and it seems many holders get attached to their Bitcoin and will not sell even if we hit ATH again. I'm in this group and believe that these coins are worth much more than 20k. I'm not going to give it all up just like that. If we don't go mainstream I will lose my bet, but if we do there's so much we can gain on this small and simple investment. There's just one thing needed to succeed: conviction.
Those who give up on bitcoin simply regret when it is hitting sky during pumps. I am also among those holders of bitcoin who do not want to sell it off even in dumps. Seasonal holders also make good money from bitcoin if they are good in trading. I believe it is never a bad time to buy a bitcoin and leave it in wallet for some great deal of time in order to achieve maximum profits.
12  Economy / Economics / Re: How does the US and China trade war affect bitcon? How do people think ? on: December 10, 2019, 05:36:02 PM
US and CHINA trade wars in my opinion will not affect bitcoin, although bitcoin could have benefited or lost from the war between the two countries, I am still asking if a faster payment process such as using bitcoin will help them also export faster and import, speed might also have an effect on bitcoin and the two countries, and even then it seems like the two countries are the most annoying countries for some bitcoin communities
I also have the same thought as you, the trade war between the US and China will not be related to bitcoin because Bitcoin is not a particularly important area, we can see the interest of the US and Chinese governments, they almost ignore it if I don't want to say they hate it. While talking about the trade war, the important point is the cooperation between the two countries, import and export goods and financial and stock markets, this war will affect people in these areas, bitcoin has no value in this war
That is one way of looking at the picture. People who hold the opinion that this war can affect bitcoin is due to the fact that bitcoin worth is represented in dollars and if dollar gets hurt, it will hurt bitcoin too. Some think it will rather increase bitcoinís worth and the number of investors will also increase. In my opinion, all the negative things of fiat affect the digital coin market in a positive way.
13  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin can't survive alone on: December 10, 2019, 05:16:15 PM
I totally agree with you. Bitcoin plays a vital role on Cryptocurrency in every transaction but it needs support from Altcoins. Altcoins also gives a good option in diversifying your money in terms of investment. Putting your money on a single basket is not really a good idea. In terms of trading coins, some altcoins really makes Bitcoin norr profitable and vice versa.
altcoins now should not only be a tool of diversification for investors, but they should also support the technological development of the market that will help achieve the mass adoption of cryptocurrencies in the world
difficult for new altcoins to mass adoption, you can see there are more than 4900 coins or tokens listed out there, maybe that can be used as bulk adoption maybe only coins or tokens that are good, like ethereum, waves, neo, eos, if for binance I think they have proven
The new coins that keep on releasing every other day hardly effect the old coins and investors. People who have been in the market for long or truly understand the concept of crypto coins, definitely cherish bitcoin regardless of what altcoins are doing. It is bitcoin on which the whole digital market depends. Those holders who choose new coins over old ones always end up in regrets.
14  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Are you holding Bitcoin? on: December 10, 2019, 04:59:34 PM
I am holding with altcoin only because give big chance to get profit than bitcoin, I only have little money for investing with crypto and altcoin become more profitable holding assets I think than have hold with bitcoin because little money investing with bitcoin not have anything effect when bitcoin have higher or lower price, just take less profit if invest with bitcoin only.
Both is a good investment to hold. Altcoin is always with bitcoin, when bitcoin goes up and pump the altcoins pumps as well. Altcoin is good also but for me?wether I invest or trade my bitcoin still it will have a profit even I dont do anything.
Bitcoin is simply a hen that lays golden egg every day which simple means that even you donít do anything, you are making profit on daily basis. When you buy and hold bitcoin, you are simply by putting it in wallet making huge money whereas altcoins are like a hen that lays silver egg. Altcoins do give you profit but it is really small in worth as compared to that of bitcoin but better than nothing.
15  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Do you have control or not? on: December 10, 2019, 04:30:26 PM
Yes, I can stop gambling at any time. I can start the game again. Because I'm not addicted to gambling. And there is no reason to be addicted. Because gambling is only a sport. So I think that one should not be addicted to gambling. Because addiction has the potential to cause financial loss. So I can control myself. If I wish I would gamble. It's not just that you have to gamble everyday.
Thanks.

But not every gambler understands this point that it is not necessary to gamble every day. People no more treat gambling as a game. For them it is some shortcut of making nice big money in short time with high dependence on luck. This is the reason why people with this silly hope spend a lot of time on this sports and loss huge money which they are never ever able to recover.
16  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: new projects should be about new features on: December 09, 2019, 04:00:54 PM
Change of technologies are not the problem because the major reason why new projects and existing projects are not performing well is the duplication. If you take crypto based payment transfer project you will find dozens of them with almost identical features without anything new so developer should not come up with similar projects rather they should come up with new technologies which will attract the market. 
There is more than mere duplication. Obviously not two coins can be exact same but the major problem is whether the project owners are serious about their coin and if yes, then to what extent they care about it. A bigger portion of new projects is scam and this is the most troublesome issue of the current market. For new features, investors can actually give better ideas as they are the real users here.
17  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: Is regulation good or bad? on: December 09, 2019, 03:25:25 PM
In my view, regulation will be good for Crypto industry. As we can now see  that many Govt are looking for ways to regulate the industry.

Regulation will be a good thing in the long run. It will build trust for the industry among the masses thereby resulting in mass adoption. With regulation, people will feel more comfortable and have a sense of security to invest in crypto.

I don't believe that regulation means we have to declare our portfolio. Just as nobody cares to know exactly how much you own in the bank.

Regulation will also help in curbing the possibility of using crypto to launder money and place a check and balance in ICO which will make it very difficult for scam ICOs to operate.

I say regulation will in the end be a good thing for crypto..

What's your view about it?

in my opinion regulation is very good if applied to cryptocurency because with the regulation all crypto users will feel more secure and comfortable. and now many countries have made regulations regarding the use of cryptocurency. because this regulation is very important for state finance so regulation is very important to be made by every country that has many cryptocurency users.

Well in any aspect and in every decision of the government there is always good advantage and disadvantage, so we just need to embrace it and let the government do their job, if they will require taxes, KYC to every exchange and so on, so we have nothing to do with it but to follow as they knows best and this is for our own safety and security so let us understand them.
Embracing all the decisions of government is not smart at all. If people will not resist their wrong decisions then I am afraid these authorities wonít fear in robbing all the assets from innocent citizens. A man must have full awareness of his rights and fight for them in case of compromise. That is what freedom is about. They know best and that is why they don't let people have the best.
18  Economy / Economics / Re: Big Bankers Say Cryptocurrencies Do Not Threat The Global Financial Stability on: December 09, 2019, 03:06:02 PM
The volatility of the cryptocurrencies in the market is what makes the big bankers to not be threaten. People doesn't want to stick to something that is unstable, majority of the people in this world always prefer a currency that is stable and regulated so they can feel comfortable when using it and they know that there is someone that is leading them which is the government.
Big bankers always have this ideology. People commonly have a thinking, something instable isn't good to be used as same as fiat. Global financial stability is much associated with the fiat as the cryptocurrency contributions were very low. Governments that are with the plans of adoption and development of own cryptocurrency feels this to be too early for the same.

fiats not stable  ?  i think your wrong  . fiats are stable  .  people do also love the idea behind cryptos , the unstability of cryptos rather because this gives them a potential to earn  . crypto do not threaten the financial stability at all because it does not over lap with the fiat .  fiat are still the ones the riegn offline while people only use crypto on the side specifically for online use and for doing business like trading or investing  . bankers infact love crypto's and not hating it .
Yeah in the start banks were afraid of crypto as they used to think that crypto might surpass fiat as it is borderless and anonymous and upto a certain extent they were also right.
So to overcome this they started campaigning against crypto altogether in the shadows and made the reputation of crypto as a payment method used for buying drugs and money laundering. Now crypto market is less than a trillion dollars combined and this is just a small pond as compared to the oceanic fiat currencies.
That is not the real game here, I think. There is a lot more than that. This is for sure that bitcoin and altcoins are going to take over fiat and this wonít take much time now. In the beginnings, bankers were afraid of crypto currencies but just look at the history of ripple and the picture will become clearer. If banks come up with their crypt currencies, they really don't have to feel any more threaten by digital assets. They will simply make a friendship with these coins.
19  Economy / Economics / Re: What would happen to banks? on: December 09, 2019, 02:40:13 PM
Banks will add cryptos to the system, maybe they will even build their own app on blockchain system, everything will be changed, they either join or they perish.
I think banks will also join the blockchain system in their banks as I know banking is one way to store money but after the arrival of crypto I now people prefer to store their money in form of investment than storing money. I hope in a few years the entire banking system will start to adopt the blockchain system for making money storage its also helpful for the future of banks.
Implementing blockchain is a totally different case than acknowledging bitcoin and altcoins. Blockchain is the technology whereas bitcoin is one of its products. Blockchain developers can improve any existing system. All those banks that wish to provide better services to their customers must embed this technology in their business. Without accepting crypto currencies, banks really do not have any future.
20  Economy / Economics / Re: How does the US and China trade war affect bitcon? How do people think ? on: December 09, 2019, 02:07:54 PM
Bitcoin does get affected by the economical changes of the world. Either it will gain value or lose some. When the existing money system will fail in helping people, then bitcoin would be the answer. By decentralized, it means that no one can claim to control or own it. And that is true because if it was possible, then the country with such power would have been the richest and definitely super power.
No dude. BTC gets affected by the demand and supply of the market. What gets affected by the trade war between US and China is most likely the economic markets of the two countries as well as the purchasing power of their respective fiat. BTC doesn't gain nor loses value due to war, and again, it gains and loses value DUE to demand and supply. It seems like BTC is clouded because some of the traders are from the US, some from China, BUT not all traders come there. IF you say that it is affected because of such reasoning, then me killing some trader could be said to affecting BTC, which is stupid, like really.
All the assets are ultimately judged by the demand and supply thing but neither the supply of bitcoin is in hands of this coin or the demand and even if their national currencies lose their worth, bitcoin wonít because the currency that will lose wonít be the one showing bitcoin worth. Letís just have a scenario of deep web. The war of these two countries hardly affects people of that world. Demand wont decrease in deep and dark web for sure. This is just one illustration.
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